:gagged:
You couldn't make this up, could you?
The United Kingdom of Terrorists. Come to Britain. Your safe haven.
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Abu Qatada
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Quote by GnV
:gagged:
You couldn't make this up, could you?
The United Kingdom of Terrorists. Come to Britain. Your safe haven.
Not over yet GnV. The trouble lies in that Britain is bound by law and those laws go against the very fundamentals of our lives.
This man has been convicted in his absence, he is a known terrorist and a very dangerous man, and yet even with all this evidence against him, still unelected judges in Europe refuse his extradition. Ms May has made mistakes in this particular extradition but it has been made much more difficult with Europe constantly changing the rules.
There could be a small chance that he could be tried in the Uk, but I personally would just like him put on a plane out of the UK and into Jordanian air space and then drop him, but as that is very unlikely to happen, I would hope that the appeal court overturn today's decision and on the assurances issued by Jordan that he could and will be extradited to Jordon to stand trial on extremely serious offenses.
I cannot understand that yesterday we had Remembrance Sunday where we honour the men and women who have fought and died for this country, and yet today we have allowed a known terrorist and a hater of the West who has made many threats and carried many out himself, to be allowed to stay in the UK and allowed out for 8 hours a day to mingle if he wanted with the rest of society.
The UK will remain within the law no matter what but it is about time that the British Government withdrew from Europe and then be able to decide for itself what is in the public's interest with regards to extradition proceedings, and not have European judges constantly interfering in our laws.
I think he like Hamza will be extradited but I think it is criminal in itself the long road to get there, when we are dealing with very dangerous men who have very extremist views and carry them out. It seems indeed that Britain has inadvertently become a safe haven for terrorists, and if you was a serving soldier facing death every day in Afghanistan from men like Qatada, you must be wondering why you ever bothered to join the Army, when it allows a person like him to roam our streets.
Tagged, yes....
Do I recall an incident earlier in the year where the 'taggers' tagged a prisoner's prosthetic leg?
Hardly any restriction there then if he had a second one (IIRC he did and carried out a few more crimes totally unrestricted) what chance do we have that Qatada is going to be a nice little soldier for mummy and not play with someone else's G3 smartphone with Internet access or whisper his terrible commands across the floor of the church of latter day terrorists at prayers on Friday?
I'm going to borrow Steve's comment to Too Hot on here the other day. How many moons are in orbit of the planet on which the judge is living when he placed the nation at such risk?
Do I recall an incident earlier in the year where the 'taggers' tagged a prisoner's prosthetic leg?
Hardly any restriction there then if he had a second one (IIRC he did and carried out a few more crimes totally unrestricted) what chance do we have that Qatada is going to be a nice little soldier for mummy and not play with someone else's G3 smartphone with Internet access or whisper his terrible commands across the floor of the church of latter day terrorists at prayers on Friday?
I'm going to borrow Steve's comment to Too Hot on here the other day. How many moons are in orbit of the planet on which the judge is living when he placed the nation at such risk?
Kick him out, put him on a plane to Libya, I think that is where they want him extradited to but confess that hearing about him annoys me so much I try not to.
What will happen if we do that ? some of the world will cry "wrong" and then it will be forgotton just as some of the antics Israel do are forgotton. will the EU fine us, whoopeee he is costing us more than any fine they could rationally impose, will it add creedence to his cause, making a laughing stock of Britain is doing that nicely anyway, will other countries impose sanctions on us ? will Germany say we can't have any more BMW's, France stop senlling us produce, Italy, Greece, Turkey and all the rest stop dealing with us, I think not, will we be kicked out of the EU ? oh I hope so, I really do.
What would happen if we simply said "we have decided it is right to extradite him" and do it ?
How many other Countries would tollerate this afront to thier Nation, how many other Countries would just go ahead and ignore the world opinion of certain people within thier respective Governments and Organisations, how many would shout disaproval whilst believing we actually did the right thing and breathed a sigh of relief that we set a precedence.
What will happen if we do that ? some of the world will cry "wrong" and then it will be forgotton just as some of the antics Israel do are forgotton. will the EU fine us, whoopeee he is costing us more than any fine they could rationally impose, will it add creedence to his cause, making a laughing stock of Britain is doing that nicely anyway, will other countries impose sanctions on us ? will Germany say we can't have any more BMW's, France stop senlling us produce, Italy, Greece, Turkey and all the rest stop dealing with us, I think not, will we be kicked out of the EU ? oh I hope so, I really do.
What would happen if we simply said "we have decided it is right to extradite him" and do it ?
How many other Countries would tollerate this afront to thier Nation, how many other Countries would just go ahead and ignore the world opinion of certain people within thier respective Governments and Organisations, how many would shout disaproval whilst believing we actually did the right thing and breathed a sigh of relief that we set a precedence.
I think it's Jordan that wants him Jed.
As for the Home Secretary's comments in the house yesterday that she only wanted to act within the law....
Since the whole House without any signs of dissent want rid of this evil person from Britains shores, it is not outside the bounds of possibilities (it has been done before) for emergency legislation to be tabled this afternoon to make it legal to despatch him to Jordan in spite of the learned Judge's ruling and the ECHR rulings and get Royal Assent before Her Majesty sits down to sip her evening Gin and Dubonnet.
There was once a piece of legislation passed which simply said something on the lines of "what was previously illegal is now, by this Act, made legal".
That would preserve the position of the Crown, spare the Judges' apoplexy and show that Britain really DOES mean business when it comes to dealing with terrorists and, if not only for Ben's benefit, he and others would still be a part of an honourable nation
As for the Home Secretary's comments in the house yesterday that she only wanted to act within the law....
Since the whole House without any signs of dissent want rid of this evil person from Britains shores, it is not outside the bounds of possibilities (it has been done before) for emergency legislation to be tabled this afternoon to make it legal to despatch him to Jordan in spite of the learned Judge's ruling and the ECHR rulings and get Royal Assent before Her Majesty sits down to sip her evening Gin and Dubonnet.
There was once a piece of legislation passed which simply said something on the lines of "what was previously illegal is now, by this Act, made legal".
That would preserve the position of the Crown, spare the Judges' apoplexy and show that Britain really DOES mean business when it comes to dealing with terrorists and, if not only for Ben's benefit, he and others would still be a part of an honourable nation
Nice sentiment to think that we are honourable as a Nation, however a number of points spring to mind ......
We are not an honourable Nation
Over the years we have done so many dishonourable things they are beyond the realms of reasonable discussion
A few examples .......
Supporting leaders of other Nations as they murder thier population on a scale unsurmounted, Pohl Pot, Stalin and many others especially in developing nations, true we may have changed our minds in later times but that is not because our attitudes changed but because our circumstances changed, we supported the Taliban against the Russians, We supported Idi Amin, we have supported whole Nations that have carried out atrocities against members of thier community.
We have pillaged countries and ruled them without caring for their long term interests
We have waged war on Countries because it was purely in our interests to do so
We have supported Terrorists (at least what one nation calls terrorists and another called Freedom Fighters at the time)
We have supplied arms on a massive scale to people we shouldn't
We have ignored so much that we say is wrong around the world
We have given military assistance in return for mineral rights or building contracts
We have harboured War Criminals in return for knowledge
We have given a safe haven to Nazi SS murderers of many Nations
We have hanged innocent people in the name of justice
and .............
Do we not have duty to protect decent people in this Country be they visitors, residents, nationals, Muslims, Jews, Christians and every other law abiding person here in the UK, could it be considered honourable to do that ?
This man is guilty by his own admission, we have secured promises from Jordan (thanks for the information) that he will be treated fairly.
We have given him every chance in UK COURTS, we have decided it is right to extradite him why should we bow down to unelected individuals in another Country
We are not an honourable Nation
Over the years we have done so many dishonourable things they are beyond the realms of reasonable discussion
A few examples .......
Supporting leaders of other Nations as they murder thier population on a scale unsurmounted, Pohl Pot, Stalin and many others especially in developing nations, true we may have changed our minds in later times but that is not because our attitudes changed but because our circumstances changed, we supported the Taliban against the Russians, We supported Idi Amin, we have supported whole Nations that have carried out atrocities against members of thier community.
We have pillaged countries and ruled them without caring for their long term interests
We have waged war on Countries because it was purely in our interests to do so
We have supported Terrorists (at least what one nation calls terrorists and another called Freedom Fighters at the time)
We have supplied arms on a massive scale to people we shouldn't
We have ignored so much that we say is wrong around the world
We have given military assistance in return for mineral rights or building contracts
We have harboured War Criminals in return for knowledge
We have given a safe haven to Nazi SS murderers of many Nations
We have hanged innocent people in the name of justice
and .............
Do we not have duty to protect decent people in this Country be they visitors, residents, nationals, Muslims, Jews, Christians and every other law abiding person here in the UK, could it be considered honourable to do that ?
This man is guilty by his own admission, we have secured promises from Jordan (thanks for the information) that he will be treated fairly.
We have given him every chance in UK COURTS, we have decided it is right to extradite him why should we bow down to unelected individuals in another Country
As much as I hate to say it, if the British Government of the day choose to ignore the rulings of judges and in essence the law itself, how can they then expect anyone else to have the same regards for the law? If they can break it at will then so can your local burglar.
We should now look at other ways of deporting him within the current laws. If that cannot be done then Parliament needs to have an emergency sitting of all MP's and vote to change the law. That could so easily be done as I am sure any new law that allowed us to kick him out, would be voted for by at least 80% plus of the MP's. That could be done certainly within three weeks and the problem would be resolved lawfully through Parliament.
While Parliament is recalling all MP's to attend, the Government could then go to a very nice judge and ask for him to be detained until Parliament had sat. He is wanted in another country and has been convicted in that country of very serious crimes. Surely we could go along with Jordon and hold him until such time when Parliament change the law.
We should now look at other ways of deporting him within the current laws. If that cannot be done then Parliament needs to have an emergency sitting of all MP's and vote to change the law. That could so easily be done as I am sure any new law that allowed us to kick him out, would be voted for by at least 80% plus of the MP's. That could be done certainly within three weeks and the problem would be resolved lawfully through Parliament.
While Parliament is recalling all MP's to attend, the Government could then go to a very nice judge and ask for him to be detained until Parliament had sat. He is wanted in another country and has been convicted in that country of very serious crimes. Surely we could go along with Jordon and hold him until such time when Parliament change the law.
Sex God
Quote by flower411
It was reported on the news this evening that it is going to cost five million pounds a year to monitor this man !!!
How on earth do they come up with that figure ?
i'll take him to jorden for a million and they can keep the other 4
Quote by starlightcouple
As much as I hate to say it, if the British Government of the day choose to ignore the rulings of judges and in essence the law itself, how can they then expect anyone else to have the same regards for the law? If they can break it at will then so can your local burglar.
We should now look at other ways of deporting him within the current laws. If that cannot be done then Parliament needs to have an emergency sitting of all MP's and vote to change the law. That could so easily be done as I am sure any new law that allowed us to kick him out, would be voted for by at least 80% plus of the MP's. That could be done certainly within three weeks and the problem would be resolved lawfully through Parliament.
While Parliament is recalling all MP's to attend, the Government could then go to a very nice judge and ask for him to be detained until Parliament had sat. He is wanted in another country and has been convicted in that country of very serious crimes. Surely we could go along with Jordon and hold him until such time when Parliament change the law.
We are NOT ignoring the ruling of Judges, our UK courts have ruled that he should be extradited to Jordan, what we are obeying is European decisions not to extradite him, decisions that were made by non-British, non-elected representatives of European Law.
European Laws that are flaunted daily by member nations such as France when they banned the sale of British Meat after it had been approved by the EU for sale in Europe, a ruling made after the last foot and mouth outbreak, a EU member nation that alows it's people (farmers) to often BLOCKS British Ports and prevents British Truck drivers returning to Britain.
I also believe that people in this Country should be protected by British Law, but only for as long as they abide by the laws of this Country, to disobey those laws is to forfeit your right to thier protection and as such any protection we give should be discretionary and not a given right.
Laws which allow one person protection to attack or incite attack upon other persons that should be protected by the same laws are ridiculous and wrong.
As for Parliament, we have no need for them to do anything more than extradite him as judged and deemed to be correct by British Courts, for Parliament to ignore those British Courts and stand by the decisions of the European Courts is a an admittance that British Law are no longer required in Britain and we need only European Courts.
Nobody is saying (I don't think) that judges should be elected, I think they are pointing out that Judges are NOT elected either in the EU or here in Britain, the question they are asking is what right EU Judges who are not elected by anyone have the right to overule British Judges who are not elected, now I know the obvious answer is the rules under which we are part of the EU, but that does not mean it is right, we should have the power to decide at our highest court level what happens in Britain or be able to do what other Countries (examples I have already given) do of ignoring those EU rulings we don't like without any action being taken against us and if that cannot be so then let's get out of the EU and rule ourselves.
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
we should have the power to . . . do what other Countries (examples I have already given) do of ignoring those EU rulings we don't like without any action being taken against us
Apologies for the editing but I believe the above accurately conveys the intent of your post Mids. A strange argument for anyone who would uphold the Rule of Law to be making, especially in defiance of supposed threats from those who have no respect for it and would allegedly seek to undo the protections we enjoy and impose their own standards on us as is so often claimed, don't you think? 'Other countries do it' is not an argument that holds much water with me. Other countries also use torture to extract confessions I have read, but I see no reason to follow their example either.
Quote by In 'A Man For All Seasons' Robert Bolt
William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Where are your own protections Mids ( and mine! ) and of what value are they once we go down this road of yours of picking and choosing which laws to uphold or ignore at our whim? Hmmmm? Baby out with the bath water mate. I'm not sure you've thought this through?
Quote by MidsCouple24
We are NOT ignoring the ruling of Judges, our UK courts have ruled that he should be extradited to Jordan, what we are obeying is European decisions not to extradite him, decisions that were made by non-British, non-elected representatives of European Law.
Mids calm down dear boy.
He was ordered to be released by the immigration court in London. This was not a decision based on European judges, but by English judges...
Mr Justice Mitting.....He has been a High Court judge since 2001 and head of the Special Immigration Appeals Commission – the court which freed Qatada – since 2007.
Cambridge-educated, he became a QC in 1987.
Judge Peter Lane......He was criticised in 2010 for overturning a decision to deport a foreign student caught working illegally.
The Ghanaian student, 29, at the University of Sunderland was found working as a security guard for longer than the permitted 20 hours a week, and as a result the Home Office refused to allow him to stay in Britain.
Judge Lane ruled deporting him would breach his human rights, stating: 'The public interest in maintaining an effective immigration control, whilst important, is not a fixity.'
Dame Denise Holt........She was Ambassador to Mexico between 2002 and 2005 and to Spain from 2007 to 2009. The 63-year-old sits on the panel as the non-legal member with experience of national security matters.
She is also a board member of Ofqual, the exams regulator and a member of the NHS Pay Review Body which decides how much doctors and nurses should be paid.
She is an independent director of HSBC Bank and works for the Alzheimer's Society.
These are the people who made the decision to release him Mids.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Laws which allow one person protection to attack or incite attack upon other persons that should be protected by the same laws are ridiculous and wrong.
Could not agree more but it does seem that you get more protection nowadays if you are from minority sections of society.
Quote by MidsCouple24
As for Parliament, we have no need for them to do anything more than extradite him as judged and deemed to be correct by British Courts, for Parliament to ignore those British Courts and stand by the decisions of the European Courts is a an admittance that British Law are no longer required in Britain and we need only European Courts.
We agreed to abide by the treaty that binds all European countries together. Obviously it was Parliament and it's MP's that voted for it, as the man and woman on the street were promised a referendum on this but then they back tracked. We either get out of Europe period, or we remain part of it. You cannot pick the bits you like and the bits you don't. As I have stated many times, I feel the time is right to get out of Europe and if they will not then the people of this country should be given the option of a yes or no. The sooner the better, and all the pro Euro MP's who were screaming for the UK to join the Euro, have gone awfully quite now.
Also as the ' austerity ' measures have kicked in big time, and people like myself when out of work last year, and then had all benefits stopped in April of this year, I would like to know as Abu Qatada is out of work and claiming benefits, after he has been freed for say two months will they stop his benefits, as he is not actively seeking work?
Will the Welfare system allow this man the good fortune of sitting at home claiming huge sums in benefits, while the rest of society would be forced into work or have their benefits cut? Can anyone see the benefit system doing anything other than paying him the full amount each week. The same rules for us all? Not a fecking chance.
I wish I had a human rights lawyer at my beck and call 24/7 attending to my wants and needs. :twisted:
Will the Welfare system allow this man the good fortune of sitting at home claiming huge sums in benefits, while the rest of society would be forced into work or have their benefits cut? Can anyone see the benefit system doing anything other than paying him the full amount each week. The same rules for us all? Not a fecking chance.
I wish I had a human rights lawyer at my beck and call 24/7 attending to my wants and needs. :twisted:
The Countries I refer to in my "other countries do is so why don't we" do not torture people (to our knowledge) they are EU member countries, if indeed they do torture people they should not be in the EU.
I wholeheartedly support the UK leaving the EU, we are governed by it's laws yet have to watch other EU member Countries flaunt those laws to suit themselves with no repercussions.
The gains we make these days from being members are far outwayed by the disadvantages of being able to rule ourselves, make our own laws, trade and much more.
The costs of being an EU state far outweigh the benefits of being members.
The EU is not working, Countries are going bankrupt within it and those countries who can control thier finances are paying the price.
The right to visit, work or live in any EU Country benefits everyone else more than it does the UK.
I would like to abide by the law, but not laws that put me and my family in danger by protecting those that would incite harm to me. A law that protects the innocent from those that would harm them is not a good law, yes in real life you have to look at laws and decide if you are willing to break them, you have to consider the consequences of your actions and be prepared to suffer those consequences.
I do not believe that breaking the EU ruling and extraditing this man would have worse consequences than keeping him here and protecting him from prosecution.
British Courts and the Home Office are only preventing his extradition because the EU say it would be wrong, not because they believe it to be the right thing to do.
I wholeheartedly support the UK leaving the EU, we are governed by it's laws yet have to watch other EU member Countries flaunt those laws to suit themselves with no repercussions.
The gains we make these days from being members are far outwayed by the disadvantages of being able to rule ourselves, make our own laws, trade and much more.
The costs of being an EU state far outweigh the benefits of being members.
The EU is not working, Countries are going bankrupt within it and those countries who can control thier finances are paying the price.
The right to visit, work or live in any EU Country benefits everyone else more than it does the UK.
I would like to abide by the law, but not laws that put me and my family in danger by protecting those that would incite harm to me. A law that protects the innocent from those that would harm them is not a good law, yes in real life you have to look at laws and decide if you are willing to break them, you have to consider the consequences of your actions and be prepared to suffer those consequences.
I do not believe that breaking the EU ruling and extraditing this man would have worse consequences than keeping him here and protecting him from prosecution.
British Courts and the Home Office are only preventing his extradition because the EU say it would be wrong, not because they believe it to be the right thing to do.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I do not believe that breaking the EU ruling and extraditing this man would have worse consequences than keeping him here and protecting him from prosecution.
Mids it is not just EU rulings but EU laws that British Governments signed up to. Are you then happy for this Government to break those laws? If you are why should any other person feel guilty about breaking any other law, as if they see a democratically elected Government openly flout laws and get away with it, why should anyone else bother about breaking laws? They have to be seen to be doing the right thing no matter what. Do not get me wrong as I want this horrid person put on a plane and dropped from feet onto his head, but if we do not like the laws we have signed up to, then it is Parliament that has to change them.
Quote by MidsCouple24
British Courts and the Home Office are only preventing his extradition because the EU say it would be wrong, not because they believe it to be the right thing to do.
As far as I understand it Mids, Ms May decided to go before British judges as she felt she would get the answers and the outcome she wanted. As far as I am also aware the European courts accepted the Jordanian assurances on not using evidence against him that could have been obtained through torture.
This ruling was something that our Home Secretary thought would not happen but it has, and frankly made her look a right idiot incapable of doing her job properly. As I have stated already Mids, it was British Judges who released him on Monday and nothing at al to do with Europe.
Warming the Bed
My two pence for what it's worth..... any people who enter this country as immigrants or asylum seekers should be allowed in subject to the correct process being followed. However your status in this country is not a right but a benefit which if you are convicted of a crime... is revoked and you are repatriated..... no appeal.. no questions..... you go..... it's your own fault. If you are found to be behaving in a way which is seriously not conducive to the way of life in this country....like radicalisation as an example..... you also get to leave... and go back to the country you came from ....coincidentally where you probably wont enjoy that freedom of expression... Human rights are for people who respect others human rights....not for people who commit crimes against others - why should they benefit from something they have shown no regard for in others?
The soapbox is now available.......but I reserve the right to talk tosh again without warning!!!
The soapbox is now available.......but I reserve the right to talk tosh again without warning!!!
You Brits your amazing, you will allow people to make a laughing stock of you, kill you, kill your families, steal your money, incite hatred of you, kill your soldiers, incite others to kill your soldiers, do anything they want to you, so long as people won't accuse you of breaking the "FAIR PLAY" rules.
Have a go at anyone who wants to break the law and kick the bastard out but heaven forbid don't do anything to the man who is the problem unless it has had 10 years of discussion, court rulings and FAIR PLAY, so long as nobody in the world can say "you didnt do that by the law"
Have a go at anyone who wants to break the law and kick the bastard out but heaven forbid don't do anything to the man who is the problem unless it has had 10 years of discussion, court rulings and FAIR PLAY, so long as nobody in the world can say "you didnt do that by the law"
Quote by MidsCouple24
You Brits your amazing, you will allow people to make a laughing stock of you, kill you, kill your families, steal your money, incite hatred of you, kill your soldiers, incite others to kill your soldiers, do anything they want to you, so long as people won't accuse you of breaking the "FAIR PLAY" rules.
Have a go at anyone who wants to break the law and kick the bastard out but heaven forbid don't do anything to the man who is the problem unless it has had 10 years of discussion, court rulings and FAIR PLAY, so long as nobody in the world can say "you didnt do that by the law"
You have to play with a straight bat Jed.
Anything else just ain't cricket.
Quote by MidsCouple24
You Brits your amazing, you will allow people to make a laughing stock of you, kill you, kill your families, steal your money, incite hatred of you, kill your soldiers, incite others to kill your soldiers, do anything they want to you, so long as people won't accuse you of breaking the "FAIR PLAY" rules.
Have a go at anyone who wants to break the law and kick the bastard out but heaven forbid don't do anything to the man who is the problem unless it has had 10 years of discussion, court rulings and FAIR PLAY, so long as nobody in the world can say "you didnt do that by the law"
Then you can imagine what a British soldier feels like out in Afghanistan. Their rules of engagement are far worse.
What would you suggest we do then Mids? Take to the streets? Stage a national strike? I would be so interested to hear your views on how we can change these attitudes and stay within the law?
Over to you with what I am sure are words of great wisdom. :bounce:
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
You Brits your amazing, you will allow people to make a laughing stock of you, kill you, kill your families, steal your money, incite hatred of you, kill your soldiers, incite others to kill your soldiers, do anything they want to you, so long as people won't accuse you of breaking the "FAIR PLAY" rules.
Have a go at anyone who wants to break the law and kick the bastard out but heaven forbid don't do anything to the man who is the problem unless it has had 10 years of discussion, court rulings and FAIR PLAY, so long as nobody in the world can say "you didnt do that by the law"
you not brit then jed
Quote by Lizaleanrob
You Brits your amazing, you will allow people to make a laughing stock of you, kill you, kill your families, steal your money, incite hatred of you, kill your soldiers, incite others to kill your soldiers, do anything they want to you, so long as people won't accuse you of breaking the "FAIR PLAY" rules.
Have a go at anyone who wants to break the law and kick the bastard out but heaven forbid don't do anything to the man who is the problem unless it has had 10 years of discussion, court rulings and FAIR PLAY, so long as nobody in the world can say "you didnt do that by the law"
you not brit then jed
No I am not a Brit, but I am a man who has fought in 4 different conflicts/wars in the British Army.
Quote by starlightcouple
You Brits your amazing, you will allow people to make a laughing stock of you, kill you, kill your families, steal your money, incite hatred of you, kill your soldiers, incite others to kill your soldiers, do anything they want to you, so long as people won't accuse you of breaking the "FAIR PLAY" rules.
Have a go at anyone who wants to break the law and kick the bastard out but heaven forbid don't do anything to the man who is the problem unless it has had 10 years of discussion, court rulings and FAIR PLAY, so long as nobody in the world can say "you didnt do that by the law"
Then you can imagine what a British soldier feels like out in Afghanistan. Their rules of engagement are far worse.
I don't have to imagine, I have served in the British Army, fought in 4 conflicts and used the yellow and green cards (rules of engagement) rules of engagement I chose to comply with because they were common sense
What would you suggest we do then Mids? Take to the streets? Stage a national strike? I would be so interested to hear your views on how we can change these attitudes and stay within the law?
Words of wisdom, No, I am not wise, but I do believe in common sense and common sense should be used more often in Government, all to often it isn't, banning a banana because although it is grown correctly without pesticides, tastes good, healthy for us but is the wrong shape is not using common sense, keeping a man here and not extraditing when by his own actions and admission he has broken laws in this Country and in Jordan, continues to break those laws, incites other to break those laws, is dangerous to the British Public and costs us a fortune, is not common sense, it is baltant stupidity, not often but once in a while decisions could be made through common sense and made with the support of most law abiding citizens of the UK including the law abiding muslims citizens.
Over to you with what I am sure are words of great wisdom. :bounce:
Mids you can't pick and choose which laws you enforce I don't think.
"It is important to reaffirm this country's position that we abhor the use of torture and a case that was predicated upon evidence from witnesses who have been tortured is rejected - rejected by the courts of this country as by the European Court."
"It is important to reaffirm this country's position that we abhor the use of torture and a case that was predicated upon evidence from witnesses who have been tortured is rejected - rejected by the courts of this country as by the European Court."
But you can make amendments to stupid laws, you can add scenarios as and when they become knowledgeable.
For example we could veto or opt out of certain european laws if we chose to fight for that right in Europe instead of blindly accepting whatever they say
You can get out of the European Community which influences many of our courts descisions often to the detriment and frustration of our judges, legal system and population.
And apparently you can choose which laws to accept and abide by, MP's do it everyday, it is legal to smoke in some of the bars in the house of commons and house of lords for example, an interpretation of the laws, once again it is being revealed that some MP's are continuing to steal money through deliberate misuse of thier expense claims. Now if MP's can choose for themselves which laws are to be abided by surely so can we and so can judges and the Home Office.
For example we could veto or opt out of certain european laws if we chose to fight for that right in Europe instead of blindly accepting whatever they say
You can get out of the European Community which influences many of our courts descisions often to the detriment and frustration of our judges, legal system and population.
And apparently you can choose which laws to accept and abide by, MP's do it everyday, it is legal to smoke in some of the bars in the house of commons and house of lords for example, an interpretation of the laws, once again it is being revealed that some MP's are continuing to steal money through deliberate misuse of thier expense claims. Now if MP's can choose for themselves which laws are to be abided by surely so can we and so can judges and the Home Office.
Quote by MidsCouple24
You Brits your amazing, you will allow people to make a laughing stock of you, kill you, kill your families, steal your money, incite hatred of you, kill your soldiers, incite others to kill your soldiers, do anything they want to you, so long as people won't accuse you of breaking the "FAIR PLAY" rules.
Have a go at anyone who wants to break the law and kick the bastard out but heaven forbid don't do anything to the man who is the problem unless it has had 10 years of discussion, court rulings and FAIR PLAY, so long as nobody in the world can say "you didnt do that by the law"
Then you can imagine what a British soldier feels like out in Afghanistan. Their rules of engagement are far worse.
I don't have to imagine, I have served in the British Army, fought in 4 conflicts and used the yellow and green cards (rules of engagement) rules of engagement I chose to comply with because they were common sense
What would you suggest we do then Mids? Take to the streets? Stage a national strike? I would be so interested to hear your views on how we can change these attitudes and stay within the law?
Words of wisdom, No, I am not wise, but I do believe in common sense and common sense should be used more often in Government, all to often it isn't, banning a banana because although it is grown correctly without pesticides, tastes good, healthy for us but is the wrong shape is not using common sense, keeping a man here and not extraditing when by his own actions and admission he has broken laws in this Country and in Jordan, continues to break those laws, incites other to break those laws, is dangerous to the British Public and costs us a fortune, is not common sense, it is baltant stupidity, not often but once in a while decisions could be made through common sense and made with the support of most law abiding citizens of the UK including the law abiding muslims citizens.
in utter frustration.:doh: Slaps head in disbelief at your replies at times.
Anyway your not Britsih so why should you give a damn how and what we put up with?
