Afghanistan

24 Mar 2010

Quote by Too Hot
Is anyone accountable for the successes and failures of the campaign in Afghanistan? It would be interesting to actually know what the strategy is in that country - rather than just hear every day of further casualties.

I'm not sure what to write taking into account the rest of the thread so I thought I'd stick to the OP.
The first sentance is too general...Gov for a start for accountability.
Failures? ....to fail your need a target, what is the target?..strategy is the means to attain the target, Casualties....unfortunatly any conflict will have them sad but true.
Personally the tgt for me is to train a ANA force to take care of its own Gov's needs and political agenda and leading to a withdraw for us, beyond that is Gov/foreign office policy.

24 Mar 2010

Quote by Suffolk-cpl

it has nothing to do with the mythical al qaeder, the un-aging osama bin liner or his mythical, international, fantastically advanced, all seeing, cloaked, stealthy, wealthy, suicide training group holed up in a cave in tora bora and everything to do with profit and we and our sons and daughters are just pawns in "THE GRAND CHESSBOARD"!

If I was you I would move sharpish... they can trace you, you do know that? They may have bugged your phone. You alone could unravel governments with you evidence and inside knowledge. Your tinfoil hat will not save you from the men in black..... wink

Buddy, when you have done tour then your views may well be take more seriously...
Nothing mythical about Al Qaeder. There are enough dead and captured members to establish they exist.
Osama does get older, maybe he uses "products" in his hair that 8 out of 10 terrorists say makes them look better on video.
Mythical international fantastically advanced all seeing cloaked stealthy wealthy suicide training group.... FFS, of course suicide bombers are trained. Without proper training they may cockup on their first time out. They might bomb without killing themselves! How rubbish would that be?
Pakistan and Afghanistan make it international, they can DF (direction find) mobile phone signals (fairly advanced). They have int from villagers, so that makes them all seeing on the ground. They dress like locals, stopping us just dropping them on sight, which makes em bloody stealthy, and they can afford to maintain this campaign for years, so I would say there is some wealth there!
You may be right, the grand plan is more than likely oil, or drugs or what ever, but the reality day to day is not the plot of some conspiracy movie. It's bad guys on the ground, doing bad things. And to stop them, there are the good guys. And while that goes on, good guys, bad guys, and those caught in between will die, and be "grand chessboard" is a book published in 1997 written by zbignew brzinzski that outlines all the events from 2001 in chronological order up to the present day. who are the good guy's in afghanistan ? the afghans or the foreign invaders ?

24 Mar 2010

Quote by flower411
It does appear that many people are missing the point that it is "our" democratically deployed troups who invaded somebody elses country and are killing the population and other freedom fighters who have come to their aid.
No matter how much respect anybody has for the individual members of the armed forces of this country the fact remains that they have been mistakenly deployed against an enemy that will fight them until they go away ....
And they will go away and it will be a great victory ....just not for the invaders.

Sorry, but we are not missing that point because, well frankly, it is wrong..
We are not INVADING someone elses country....We are there at the behest of the government of that country.
And in any war, soldiers are always deployed against an enemy that will fight them until they go away... if the enemy will not do that it is pointless sending soldiers, you may as well send a shop steward or the girl guides!!!!

24 Mar 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664

it has nothing to do with the mythical al qaeder, the un-aging osama bin liner or his mythical, international, fantastically advanced, all seeing, cloaked, stealthy, wealthy, suicide training group holed up in a cave in tora bora and everything to do with profit and we and our sons and daughters are just pawns in "THE GRAND CHESSBOARD"!

If I was you I would move sharpish... they can trace you, you do know that? They may have bugged your phone. You alone could unravel governments with you evidence and inside knowledge. Your tinfoil hat will not save you from the men in black..... wink

Buddy, when you have done tour then your views may well be take more seriously...
Nothing mythical about Al Qaeder. There are enough dead and captured members to establish they exist.
Osama does get older, maybe he uses "products" in his hair that 8 out of 10 terrorists say makes them look better on video.
Mythical international fantastically advanced all seeing cloaked stealthy wealthy suicide training group.... FFS, of course suicide bombers are trained. Without proper training they may cockup on their first time out. They might bomb without killing themselves! How rubbish would that be?
Pakistan and Afghanistan make it international, they can DF (direction find) mobile phone signals (fairly advanced). They have int from villagers, so that makes them all seeing on the ground. They dress like locals, stopping us just dropping them on sight, which makes em bloody stealthy, and they can afford to maintain this campaign for years, so I would say there is some wealth there!
You may be right, the grand plan is more than likely oil, or drugs or what ever, but the reality day to day is not the plot of some conspiracy movie. It's bad guys on the ground, doing bad things. And to stop them, there are the good guys. And while that goes on, good guys, bad guys, and those caught in between will die, and be "grand chessboard" is a book published in 1997 written by zbignew brzinzski that outlines all the events from 2001 in chronological order up to the present day. who are the good guy's in afghanistan ? the afghans or the foreign invaders ?
So what? Its still a book, and if your quoting it, its clearly full of rubbish like a lot of books that are trying to sell to make the author rich!
Who are the good guys? Easy, look down at your uniform.. If its a dishdash then the good guys are the Taliban, if its dessy combats, then it is the Allied forces. :wink:

25 Mar 2010

Quote by Suffolk-cpl

It does appear that many people are missing the point that it is "our" democratically deployed troups who invaded somebody elses country and are killing the population and other freedom fighters who have come to their aid.
No matter how much respect anybody has for the individual members of the armed forces of this country the fact remains that they have been mistakenly deployed against an enemy that will fight them until they go away ....
And they will go away and it will be a great victory ....just not for the invaders.

Sorry, but we are not missing that point because, well frankly, it is wrong..
We are not INVADING someone elses country....We are there at the behest of the government of that country.
And in any war, soldiers are always deployed against an enemy that will fight them until they go away... if the enemy will not do that it is pointless sending soldiers, you may as well send a shop steward or the girl guides!!!!
Not quite!
The complete sentence is "We are there now at the behest of the government of that country which was earlier installed at the will western interests".
That was not necessarily the case when first we set foot in Afghanistan as an invasion force.

25 Mar 2010

Quote by GnV
That was not necessarily the case when first we set foot in Afghanistan as an invasion force.

True, we kind of did invade back in 1838, and again in 1878! wink

25 Mar 2010

The Khyber Pass has long been a source of conflict dating back thousands of years.
This area has always been a source of war and conflict, it probably always will be.
Interesting though.

26 Mar 2010

Good to see Prince Charles rallying the troops in Afghanistan.
I guess the squaddies tolerate political leaders taking photo opportunities but to have the heir to the throne visit must give them quite a boost.

26 Mar 2010

Quote by GnV
Good to see Prince Charles rallying the troops in Afghanistan.
I guess the squaddies tolerate political leaders taking photo opportunities but to have the heir to the throne visit must give them quite a boost.

If I was out there risking my life for whatever and my family were back home worried sick about managing without my income (if I get injured) and struggling to make ends meet with the cutrent financial deable - I don't think I would be able to smile and shake hands with and mp who took money out of my taxes to feather their nests - I would rather turn my back, spit and walk away.
But as a soldier, I expect I would have to swallow my better judgment and follow orders whatever it cost my soul - much as soldiers have done for centuries. I wonder how many miltary cock-ups and illegal invasions/actions would have been avoided if soldiers could actually make a choice. I suppose that is the main reason I could never be a soldier - I could never live a life with so little (none?) personal input to my actions.

26 Mar 2010

Have we solved it yet................

27 Mar 2010

sorry to join this tread so late
i have a nephew over there who also served in iraq
and a war on terrorism is historically long, drawn out and not always successful
think i`m trying to say this isn`t you iraq type falklands type war its a lot more involved

27 Mar 2010

Probably going to get a few back up on this issue but what the hell. All I hear is people moaning about the troops being out there and getting killed. Well they all signed up to serve Queen and Country and that is what they are doing. I know tons of people in the forces, about 25 of them are currently out in afganistan and not one of them doesnt want to be there. They want the experience and they want the extra money they get each day for being there. Not one of them has complained about being out there and all but 2 of them have volunteered to go back again asap. I have lost 1 close firend out there and also two have be injured. And my son is due out there next year.
My grandad is 93 and was a prison of war on the burma railway for 3 1/2 years, and he will tell you the people in the army these days have a choice if you dont want to go to Afganistan leave the Army there are many ways around getting out. He will tell you he had no choice but to go. He came back after 4 years away to see a child who didnt know him a wife who didnt understand what he had been through and people around him just getting on with life as if nothing has happened and 75% of his friends dead. Even now I hear him at night screaming in his sleep due to the horrible things he had to see and do. If I told you what he had seen and had to go through you'd probably be sick.
And then people moan that the troops dont get enough compensation, my grandad waited until he was in his 80s to get any compensation and that was only £10,000 and then the government took most of it back saying he'd got over the amount allowed to claim some benefits.
Too many people moan about whats going on in Afganistan but each troop has a choice as to wether or not they want to be there....................

27 Mar 2010

:thumbup:

27 Mar 2010

The Oath the armed forces have to undertake is very simple really...
" I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, her heirs and successors and that I will as in duty bound honestly and faithfully defend Her Majesty, her heirs and successors in person, crown and dignity against all enemies and will observe and obey all orders of Her Majesty, her heirs and successors and of the generals and officers set over me ".
Pretty easy to understand really.

27 Mar 2010

Quote by flower411
Probably going to get a few back up on this issue but what the hell. All I hear is people moaning about the troops being out there and getting killed. Well they all signed up to serve Queen and Country and that is what they are doing. I know tons of people in the forces, about 25 of them are currently out in afganistan and not one of them doesnt want to be there. They want the experience and they want the extra money they get each day for being there. Not one of them has complained about being out there and all but 2 of them have volunteered to go back again asap. I have lost 1 close firend out there and also two have be injured. And my son is due out there next year.
My grandad is 93 and was a prison of war on the burma railway for 3 1/2 years, and he will tell you the people in the army these days have a choice if you dont want to go to Afganistan leave the Army there are many ways around getting out. He will tell you he had no choice but to go. He came back after 4 years away to see a child who didnt know him a wife who didnt understand what he had been through and people around him just getting on with life as if nothing has happened and 75% of his friends dead. Even now I hear him at night screaming in his sleep due to the horrible things he had to see and do. If I told you what he had seen and had to go through you'd probably be sick.
And then people moan that the troops dont get enough compensation, my grandad waited until he was in his 80s to get any compensation and that was only £10,000 and then the government took most of it back saying he'd got over the amount allowed to claim some benefits.
Too many people moan about whats going on in Afganistan but each troop has a choice as to wether or not they want to be there....................

So, you think soldiers should have to give up their jobs if they disagree with being sent on illegal invasions by their political masters ....not the queen...
We all have a responsibility to speak out so that our soldiers are not used as expendable pawns in pathetic political games.
I`m sure that many of them do enjoy their jobs but I`d much rather they were doing their job legally, especially as they are doing it in my name !!!
If you bothered to read fully my comments these are comments of a 93 year old man who didnt agree with having to be forced to sign up to fight for his King & country for 4 years and being held prison of war for 3 1/2 years. Facts about the Burma Railway the 415km stretch of railway was built in less than 2 years (20months). This was achieved by making the POW’s work 16-18 hour days with little or no breaks. Despite these long hours they were given little or no food and water, and the Red Cross parcels were never passed on, even thought the Japanese werent using them themselves. Starved beaten and tortured they were worked until they died. 8540 British Troops died building that railway. Its also estimated that another 5,000 died of illnesses they picked up in Burma once they returned to Great Britain as they were left untreated.
Why is it not legal has the Queen broken a law by sending the troops to Afganistan, at the end of the day the Government has to get the Queen to sign official documents and agree for them to go out to Afganistan how can you break the laws of her own country?
Have you ever asked any soldiers if they want you to speak out for them, they are able to speak for themselves, and from the ones I knows they are getting a bit sick of people jumping on their case all the time.

27 Mar 2010

We in this house know of many soldiers out there at the moment, and I can say that not one of them does not want to be there.
They all feel they are trying to make a difference, and are proud to be serving their country.
They sign up to serve their country come what may, and IF anyone bothers to check last years intake they would find they are having to turn people away.

27 Mar 2010

Quote by flower411
Probably going to get a few back up on this issue but what the hell. All I hear is people moaning about the troops being out there and getting killed. Well they all signed up to serve Queen and Country and that is what they are doing. I know tons of people in the forces, about 25 of them are currently out in afganistan and not one of them doesnt want to be there. They want the experience and they want the extra money they get each day for being there. Not one of them has complained about being out there and all but 2 of them have volunteered to go back again asap. I have lost 1 close firend out there and also two have be injured. And my son is due out there next year.
My grandad is 93 and was a prison of war on the burma railway for 3 1/2 years, and he will tell you the people in the army these days have a choice if you dont want to go to Afganistan leave the Army there are many ways around getting out. He will tell you he had no choice but to go. He came back after 4 years away to see a child who didnt know him a wife who didnt understand what he had been through and people around him just getting on with life as if nothing has happened and 75% of his friends dead. Even now I hear him at night screaming in his sleep due to the horrible things he had to see and do. If I told you what he had seen and had to go through you'd probably be sick.
And then people moan that the troops dont get enough compensation, my grandad waited until he was in his 80s to get any compensation and that was only £10,000 and then the government took most of it back saying he'd got over the amount allowed to claim some benefits.
Too many people moan about whats going on in Afganistan but each troop has a choice as to wether or not they want to be there....................

So, you think soldiers should have to give up their jobs if they disagree with being sent on illegal invasions by their political masters ....not the queen...
We all have a responsibility to speak out so that our soldiers are not used as expendable pawns in pathetic political games.
I`m sure that many of them do enjoy their jobs but I`d much rather they were doing their job legally, especially as they are doing it in my name !!!
If you bothered to read fully my comments these are comments of a 93 year old man who didnt agree with having to be forced to sign up to fight for his King & country for 4 years and being held prison of war for 3 1/2 years. Facts about the Burma Railway the 415km stretch of railway was built in less than 2 years (20months). This was achieved by making the POW’s work 16-18 hour days with little or no breaks. Despite these long hours they were given little or no food and water, and the Red Cross parcels were never passed on, even thought the Japanese werent using them themselves. Starved beaten and tortured they were worked until they died. 8540 British Troops died building that railway. Its also estimated that another 5,000 died of illnesses they picked up in Burma once they returned to Great Britain as they were left untreated.
Why is it not legal has the Queen broken a law by sending the troops to Afganistan, at the end of the day the Government has to get the Queen to sign official documents and agree for them to go out to Afganistan how can you break the laws of her own country?
Have you ever asked any soldiers if they want you to speak out for them, they are able to speak for themselves, and from the ones I knows they are getting a bit sick of people jumping on their case all the time.
I did read your comments fully ....you appeared to be making at least two entirely different points one of which was on the subject in hand and another that was going off at a complete tangent and didn`t actually feel the need to follow you down that route !!
I am fairly sure that it`s ok for me to discuss the bits of your post that I found relevent ......maybe it`s not dunno

The queen is a figurehead and has no real say whatsoever in what "her" armed forces are doing and the invasion of Afghanastan is arguably illegal in international law.
I not making 2 comments I clearly point out that a bloke of 93 who served in the 2nd World War what he went through and was forced to, unlike the troops today who have a choice.
Yes she does have a say in what her armed forces do, if she doesnt want them there she could rightly say no.

27 Mar 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
sorry to join this tread so late
i have a nephew over there who also served in iraq
and a war on terrorism is historically long, drawn out and not always successful
think i`m trying to say this isn`t you iraq type falklands type war its a lot more involved

Personaly, I do not believe wars on terror work, nor are they ever going to work. When it does end, it will end because people have sat around a table, and talked.

27 Mar 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
We in this house know of many soldiers out there at the moment, and I can say that not one of them does not want to be there.
They all feel they are trying to make a difference, and are proud to be serving their country.
They sign up to serve their country come what may, and IF anyone bothers to check last years intake they would find they are having to turn people away.

kenty, they are turning away ECONOMIC REFUGEESS and they aint serving their country no matter what they are led to beleive or think. they are serving the interests of a small elite few and their geostrategic interests which they WILL loose.

27 Mar 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
We in this house know of many soldiers out there at the moment, and I can say that not one of them does not want to be there.
They all feel they are trying to make a difference, and are proud to be serving their country.
They sign up to serve their country come what may, and IF anyone bothers to check last years intake they would find they are having to turn people away.

kenty, they are turning away ECONOMIC REFUGEESS and they aint serving their country no matter what they are led to beleive or think. they are serving the interests of a small elite few and their geostrategic interests which they WILL loose.
Yeah ok Gulson. wink

3 Apr 2010

During the Falklands war as in all wars some lessons were learnt, modern communication technology caused some problems, The media reported the taking of Goose Green the morning before the attack took place, because the press present on the task force ships had been briefed that it was going to happen, they were able to communicate that news so quickly that troops scheduled to take part in the attack, ie 2 Para heard on the BBC World Service that they had attacked whilst disembarking from HMS Fearless into it's landing craft the dangers of having information published is pretty obvious and some things have to remain secret.
How many people are aware that the British Government sold 20 Exocet missiles to the Argentine Air Force just weeks before the first shots were fired, and whilst the task force was sailing towards the Islands, of course the exocets were never delivered, we didn't actually have any to sell, but for a month or more the AAF thought that they were about to recieve them, they stopped trying to buy more from France, Austrailia and other countries who could have supplied them, of course they did not know they were dealing with British Agents posing as arms suppliers, imagine what might have happened if they had found out through the press and bought elsewhere ?
And we did recieve 1/3 of the purchase price upfront lol

Some things just have to remain secret, like the fact that the Brigadier in charge of 5 Brigade resigned shortly after his return from the conflict following a very quiet investigation into his handling of the incident involving the Royal Regiment of Wales and the RFA ship Sir Galahad. ok perhaps some things should be made more public wink

The Brigadier in charge of 3 Brigade (Brigadier Julian Thompson did go on to become a Major General)
276 British Soldiers have lost thier lives in Afghanistan since 2001, 256 British Servicemen lost thier lives in 1 months conflict in the Falkland Islands, over 60,000 lost thier lives on the morning of the Somme attack during WW1 - we are learning lessons.
Oh and for the chap who shows an Army recruiting poster as his avatar and talks about Indians being allowed to open thier shops whenever they want in England, 2.5 million Indian Soldiers served with the British army in WWII, over 3000 of them died fighting for Great Britain at Monte Cassino - just a thought

3 Apr 2010

Quote by MidsCouple24
During the Falklands war as in all wars some lessons were learnt, modern communication technology caused some problems, The media reported the taking of Goose Green the morning before the attack took place, because the press present on the task force ships had been briefed that it was going to happen, they were able to communicate that news so quickly that troops scheduled to take part in the attack, ie 2 Para heard on the BBC World Service that they had attacked whilst disembarking from HMS Fearless into it's landing craft the dangers of having information published is pretty obvious and some things have to remain secret.
How many people are aware that the British Government sold 20 Exocet missiles to the Argentine Air Force just weeks before the first shots were fired, and whilst the task force was sailing towards the Islands, of course the exocets were never delivered, we didn't actually have any to sell, but for a month or more the AAF thought that they were about to recieve them, they stopped trying to buy more from France, Austrailia and other countries who could have supplied them, of course they did not know they were dealing with British Agents posing as arms suppliers, imagine what might have happened if they had found out through the press and bought elsewhere ?
And we did recieve 1/3 of the purchase price upfront
Some things just have to remain secret, like the fact that the Brigadier in charge of 5 Brigade resigned shortly after his return from the conflict following a very quiet investigation into his handling of the incident involving the Royal Regiment of Wales and the RFA ship Sir Galahad. ok perhaps some things should be made more public The Brigadier in charge of 3 Brigade (Brigadier Julian Thompson did go on to become a Major General)
276 British Soldiers have lost thier lives in Afghanistan since 2001, 256 British Servicemen lost thier lives in 1 months conflict in the Falkland Islands, over 60,000 lost thier lives on the morning of the Somme attack during WW1 - we are learning lessons.
Oh and for the chap who shows an Army recruiting poster as his avatar and talks about Indians being allowed to open thier shops whenever they want in England, 2.5 million Indian Soldiers served with the British army in WWII, over 3000 of them died fighting for Great Britain at Monte Cassino - just a thought

You could have mentioned my name ya know!
Around here I have five corner shops within a mile of where I live. It is true they are all run by Indians or Pakistanis...........that my friend is a fact around here. I can hardly say a corner shop around here run by a white Christian when there are none. I was using facts and nothing else.
What the facts you quoted in the paragraph I have highlighted mean I do not know. I am a partner in a firm where the other guy is Indian, his family are worth ten of some of the white toss pots we have living around here, I can assure you.
I detest religion and most of what it stands for, not someone because of the colour of their skin.

3 Apr 2010

I just felt that the colour, nationality or creed of the shop owners was irrelevant, many small shops open on Sundays, bank holidays, religious holidays and unsociable hours.
To answer your question, yes I found it strange that someone who talks about race should appear to support our armed forces, a place where such things are imaterial and where you fight for the man next to you no matter what the colour of his skin, as I said people from other nations have died in thier millions for this country, Polish, Canadian, Austrailian, Indian, Nepalese, Burmese, Lithuanian, Irish, New Zealanders, Africans, Jamaicans and countless more.

3 Apr 2010

I spent the afternoon with my friend who was injured while he was serving in Afghanistan. He was hit by a roadside bomb and has lost both his legs. He has the best attitude and sense of humour of anyone I've ever met. I'm appalled by the state of some of the lads who are coming back injured. I have never seen anything like the scene that met us when we visited him in Sellyoaks. Sadly that's nothing compared to what these young lads have seen while serving out there.
We were chatting about insurance and stuff yesterday and he's been well looked after financially by the army and he also took out his own insurance. He's currently sitting on almost a million in the bank but no amount of money will compensate for the loss of his legs and the trauma that he's had to go through. When he first arrived home they gave him a 1% chance of survival. He's beaten the odds and is on the mend. The support he has received from his family has been truly amazing and again I'm humbled by his fantastic attitude and positive outlook. He's healed much faster than the medics predicted and I'm fairly certain that it's his mental determination that's done that. He has to have help with a lot of really simple stuff that we all take for granted and it really does make you think about the stuff that we moan about.
The one thing that surprised me the most... he wishes for nothing more than to put on his uniform, slap some black stuff on his face and get right back out there to do what he loves doing. And that, for me is what makes him a hero.

3 Apr 2010

If I may, a word of caution, at the moment he is with his peers, other soldiers who are also suffering from horrific and life changing wounds, his injuries are hard for his mental condition to deal with and it is good to see that he is coping and recovering well, the real mental anquish is probably hurting more when nobody is around, because that is how brave men behave, that is going to get worse when he leaves the hospital ward and when he later leaves re-hab and is back amongst able bodied people around his home and in his local with his old mates, I am sure he will cope but just bear in mind it is going to get worse for him before it gets better and he will need more help then.
Meanwhile, best wishes for a quick recovery to him and all the other casualties.

3 Apr 2010

Quote by MidsCouple24
If I may, a word of caution, at the moment he is with his peers, other soldiers who are also suffering from horrific and life changing wounds, his injuries are hard for his mental condition to deal with and it is good to see that he is coping and recovering well, the real mental anquish is probably hurting more when nobody is around, because that is how brave men behave, that is going to get worse when he leaves the hospital ward and when he later leaves re-hab and is back amongst able bodied people around his home and in his local with his old mates, I am sure he will cope but just bear in mind it is going to get worse for him before it gets better and he will need more help then.
Meanwhile, best wishes for a quick recovery to him and all the other casualties.

Thank you MidsCouple. While he is hugely positive most of the time he's realistic and does talk about the low moments. He's having nightmares, two of his squad were killed and he's home just now cause he went to the funerals. The flashbacks are present and he remembers the whole episode of when he was injured. I'm quite glad he's talking to us about those things too because it must be horrific having to deal with that on your own.
I know he's finding it a little tough at the moment because people are fussing over him while he's at home. He's living with his girlfriend and her parents as their house is accessable for him until he's a bit further forward with his treatment and can think about the future and his living arrangements. Whilst everyone's heart is in the right place he's feeling like he doesn't have any alone time. He tries to make a cuppa and someone is right there saying they'll do it. I'm sure it's just eggshells at the moment and that will pass in time.
He will need a whole lot of support when he comes home for good though, I appreciate you saying because I guess lots of people just see his good humour and positive attitude at the moment but as you say, he can't be like that all the time and low moments will come I'm sure.
Thank you for your kind wishes. kiss