Alas teaching is not the recession-proof profession a lot of people think it is - lots of redundancies around at the mo.
Not enough kids apparently.
Sex God
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Are teachers the most greedy underworked employees in UK?
Sex God
Quote by noladreams
Alas teaching is not the recession-proof profession a lot of people think it is - lots of redundancies around at the mo.
Not enough kids apparently.
That'll be because the dole spongers can't get as many benefits for churning them out then :giggle:
Oh, and just for clarity - that was tongue in cheek.
Quote by kentswingers777
Oh dear another spelling error.
You know there are many people on here very aware of their spelling mistakes.
Those people who see others knock others spelling, will no doubt not want to post. it is not nice.
For the record...........Must try harder in class.
I apologise Kenty - it was meant light-heartedly - folk here will know I am not one to knock spelling per se.
Quote by noladreams
Current payscale:
Year 1 £20,627
Year 2 £22,259
Year 3 £24,048
Year 4 £25,898
Year 5 £27,939
Year 6 £30,148
Then there's an upper pay scale plus additional payments if you take on roles with specific responsibilities etc.
But that's the basic payscale for classroom teachers (not London weighting.)
Well if anybody can remember the striking petrol tanker drivers from last year. Didnt they get 37k for just driving a big truck slowly round the country?
Oh so nice to have a structured pay scheme.
Where I work, there are people with the same job title earning 50% more than myself. And the standard answer from management is that you chose to take the job and if you don't like it, the door is the wooden thing in the corner of the room.
Currently on a pay freeze, with no hope of reaching the targets necessary to increase this with bonus.
And hours per week....? As many as I possibly can without falling asleep.
Sex God
So hang on,
When times are good and private sector people are earning far more than public sector, that's absolutely fine? Not a problem. It's just tough you know what on teachers because they chose the job and it matters not that you and Geoff in accounts earn £15,000 a year more for stamping letters and saying "Foof!" to people... It's wonderful being on the gravy train then...
But... When private sector workers are being laid off, suddenly it becomes a crime to earn more than they do and asked to be compensated fairly (NOT excessively) for the job you do? Isn't that double standards?
If the argument "change your job" applies to teachers then one could easily say "well choose to work in the public sector then!"
I agree and as a teacher pointed out in the original article (which has been, once again, totally ignored because it doesn't fit in with the knock the lefty attitude that people love to display), the timing is not good and perhaps it would be more acceptable to pursue this in better times economically.
But lets look at it this way. The Government is quite happy to give bankers, the cause of this mess, billions and billions of our money with no hope of ever seeing a return on it. He refuses to tax the bigger corporations, won't plug loopholes to avoid them paying tax by using offshore accounts (money which could easily be used to fund this and other pay increases). But a teacher asking for £250 extra a month (Minus tax of course) is suddenly evil incarnate?
Can I also point out. Teachers, as far as I am aware, are contracted and paid for the time they are in school. This is I believe from until 4pm. Everything else, holidays, all the planning, marking, form filling, is technically UNPAID. However you HAVE to do it.
Now, All the knockers out there. Say you had a job that required you to be paid from 9-5. But for which you had to come home and work 4 hours a night every night for free. Would you do it? Would you? Or would you want paying? You would wouldn't you? I would. It's why I don't do it.
So, lets work it out. £250 a month extra amounts to less than £10 a day for around 4-5 hours of unpaid work. Thats £2 - an hour. Great rate of pay for overtime that isn't it? Considering a solicitor could send you a letter saying "Hello mate, I like your fishtanks!" and charge you £150 for it. I bet you get paid a little more than that for your overtime if you are fortunate to have a job.
I agree the timing isn't great, I agree the NUT sometimes come across as a bit militant, but why the hell tar everyone with the same brush? Many teachers are NOT members of the NUT and will not be striking and indeed many have left the NUT because of this attitude, but what the hell, they are a teacher, they are all money-grabbing scumbags, overpaid and underworked babysitters.
But £3000 extra a year? Until you have done that job and know what it entails, please don't come out with this glib, tired nonsense of "lots of holidays" and only working " 5 days a week". Those who do it, know the truth is very different and the sweeping generalisations, underlying assumptions and total misinformation on this thread and others, are frankly, outre and risible.
I agree the timing isn't great, I can understand resentment about it. I can understand and sympathise with rational arguments against the raise. I just loathe the sweeping generalisations that have been portrayed as truth which are entirely false and portray an inaccurate picture simply to satisfy a personal vendetta, political view or score points.
When times are good and private sector people are earning far more than public sector, that's absolutely fine? Not a problem. It's just tough you know what on teachers because they chose the job and it matters not that you and Geoff in accounts earn £15,000 a year more for stamping letters and saying "Foof!" to people... It's wonderful being on the gravy train then...
But... When private sector workers are being laid off, suddenly it becomes a crime to earn more than they do and asked to be compensated fairly (NOT excessively) for the job you do? Isn't that double standards?
If the argument "change your job" applies to teachers then one could easily say "well choose to work in the public sector then!"
I agree and as a teacher pointed out in the original article (which has been, once again, totally ignored because it doesn't fit in with the knock the lefty attitude that people love to display), the timing is not good and perhaps it would be more acceptable to pursue this in better times economically.
But lets look at it this way. The Government is quite happy to give bankers, the cause of this mess, billions and billions of our money with no hope of ever seeing a return on it. He refuses to tax the bigger corporations, won't plug loopholes to avoid them paying tax by using offshore accounts (money which could easily be used to fund this and other pay increases). But a teacher asking for £250 extra a month (Minus tax of course) is suddenly evil incarnate?
Can I also point out. Teachers, as far as I am aware, are contracted and paid for the time they are in school. This is I believe from until 4pm. Everything else, holidays, all the planning, marking, form filling, is technically UNPAID. However you HAVE to do it.
Now, All the knockers out there. Say you had a job that required you to be paid from 9-5. But for which you had to come home and work 4 hours a night every night for free. Would you do it? Would you? Or would you want paying? You would wouldn't you? I would. It's why I don't do it.
So, lets work it out. £250 a month extra amounts to less than £10 a day for around 4-5 hours of unpaid work. Thats £2 - an hour. Great rate of pay for overtime that isn't it? Considering a solicitor could send you a letter saying "Hello mate, I like your fishtanks!" and charge you £150 for it. I bet you get paid a little more than that for your overtime if you are fortunate to have a job.
I agree the timing isn't great, I agree the NUT sometimes come across as a bit militant, but why the hell tar everyone with the same brush? Many teachers are NOT members of the NUT and will not be striking and indeed many have left the NUT because of this attitude, but what the hell, they are a teacher, they are all money-grabbing scumbags, overpaid and underworked babysitters.
But £3000 extra a year? Until you have done that job and know what it entails, please don't come out with this glib, tired nonsense of "lots of holidays" and only working " 5 days a week". Those who do it, know the truth is very different and the sweeping generalisations, underlying assumptions and total misinformation on this thread and others, are frankly, outre and risible.
I agree the timing isn't great, I can understand resentment about it. I can understand and sympathise with rational arguments against the raise. I just loathe the sweeping generalisations that have been portrayed as truth which are entirely false and portray an inaccurate picture simply to satisfy a personal vendetta, political view or score points.
Is it not true that teachers get some 13 weeks a year holiday?
They may well work some of that but certainly not all of it. So I get four weeks paid leave and a teacher gets thirteen, in my book that is nine more weeks than me. Which equates to forty five days paid leave more than I get.
As I have said a lot may well work during those additional weeks but.....everyone of them?
I have said this before many times.....I would not want to do their job, but then again they probably would not want to do mine either. Running a large printing press for ten hours a day, for four weeks a year holiday. For not that much more than a teachers pay.
Also I went to a printing college for three years at the start. I would love to give myself a three grand pay rise, but in this current climate, I have more chance of kissing Britney Spears arse.
The money is not that bad, the term times are nice and short, and long holiday periods. Not an easy job agreed but....nor are many others either. They do not come with a union banging on to them to strike either.
IF the NUT had the best interests of the people that mattered, which is the kids, they would not dare to even contemplate a strike. But as with most unions, too militant and too eager to grab the headlines.
Sorry but teachers do not get a bad screw, and rightly so in my opinion, it is just that I do not like the NUT'S stance of how poor they are doing.
Check out how much a fireman gets. If teachers want more money then they should look at the pay structure of fire fighters.
I am fully aware that most of this is not of the teachers doing, but the militant union that most of them pay their subs too every month. So if strike action is called for I wonder if the teachers en mass will reject it......somehow I doubt it.
They may well work some of that but certainly not all of it. So I get four weeks paid leave and a teacher gets thirteen, in my book that is nine more weeks than me. Which equates to forty five days paid leave more than I get.
As I have said a lot may well work during those additional weeks but.....everyone of them?
I have said this before many times.....I would not want to do their job, but then again they probably would not want to do mine either. Running a large printing press for ten hours a day, for four weeks a year holiday. For not that much more than a teachers pay.
Also I went to a printing college for three years at the start. I would love to give myself a three grand pay rise, but in this current climate, I have more chance of kissing Britney Spears arse.
The money is not that bad, the term times are nice and short, and long holiday periods. Not an easy job agreed but....nor are many others either. They do not come with a union banging on to them to strike either.
IF the NUT had the best interests of the people that mattered, which is the kids, they would not dare to even contemplate a strike. But as with most unions, too militant and too eager to grab the headlines.
Sorry but teachers do not get a bad screw, and rightly so in my opinion, it is just that I do not like the NUT'S stance of how poor they are doing.
Check out how much a fireman gets. If teachers want more money then they should look at the pay structure of fire fighters.
I am fully aware that most of this is not of the teachers doing, but the militant union that most of them pay their subs too every month. So if strike action is called for I wonder if the teachers en mass will reject it......somehow I doubt it.
Quote by Resonance
So hang on,
and it matters not that you and Geoff in accounts earn £15,000 a year more for stamping letters and saying "Foof!" to people... It's wonderful being on the gravy train then...
I just loathe the sweeping generalisations that have been portrayed as truth which are entirely false and portray an inaccurate picture simply to satisfy a personal vendetta, political view or score points.
These two paragraphs appear ever so slightly contradictory......the first one being a very sweeping and derogatory generalisation!! Your view of the private sector appears to be as skewed as those of the public sector that you are ranting about.
Sex God
Is it not true that teachers get some 13 weeks a year holiday?
They may well work some of that but certainly not all of it. So I get four weeks paid leave and a teacher gets thirteen, in my book that is nine more weeks than me.
Wrong. A teacher gets 13 weeks off work. It is UNPAID leave. They are paid for the time they are in the classroom NOT holidays. They are paid for 39 weeks of the year on their contracts (or thereabouts). The salary is split monthly for convenience.
So technically, that makes them worse off than you in one respect. You get paid for your holidays.
No, teachers, like every other profession, have holidays when they do not work. They need it because most teachers spend at least 12 hours each day doing work. Either teaching, preparing, marking, assessing or filling any one of the myriad of new forms they have to fill in nowadays.
Here's a quick one. A Student teacher. When I qualified a teacher used to write a few things for you in your file over the time you were in school. Probably amounted to a page or two of A4. Now each student has an 86 sheet booklet to be completed by the teacher. EIGHTY SIX. Teachers can have two or 3 students at a time. On top of their work required to manage the class effectively. So you do the maths.
Mr Kent, I can understand why people are aggrieved. I think the NUT are WRONG on this too. I actually agree with the general sentiments of those people who think it is a tad greedy at this time. BUT, I cannot stand to let these idle comparisons lie unchallenged about what teachers actually do for their money.
I put it to you, if a teacher was paid per hour, and allowed to charge their employers for every hour they work, perhaps with time and a half for overtime, you would find an awful lot of teachers salaries would double in an instant.
There are good teachers who deserve far more, and crap ones who should be booted out. There are militant nutters (pun intended) and there are others who would never strike regardless of the issue. My wife is one of the latter and she is not alone. So forgive me if I get riled by the nonsense spouted in threads such as this.
I wouldn't claim to know your job Mr K, it sounds damn hard graft to me. But you wouldn't like it if I or anyone else came on here and called you a "lazy arsed greedy git who just f*cks about with ink all day" (See? Told you I didn't have a clue!). That's kind of what it feels like to read some of the stuff said about "teachers" as a whole. It's as ignorant and ill-informed as the comment on your job would be.
As for the union, as I said NUT is the biggest teaching union, but by no means are all teachers in it and yet they get lumped in together.
However, if you get chance to kiss Britney's arse, give it a smack from me and tell her to grow up. She gets on my tits to be honest... ;-)
The NUT like any other union only care about the interests of its members. Teachers. It is the teachers who provide a duty of care for the children, not the NUT. A subtle difference but one that is important.
Like I said before, the timing of this is wrong, it smacks of greed and appears to be a somewhat selfish gesture especially when compared with other areas of society suffering in these times. I have absolutely no argument against those issues and I agree with them. However it is the sweeping generalisations and total misrepresentation of what teachers do that I disliked and that was the title of this post.
So to summarise.
Overpaid and underworked? Not a chance of it.
Poorly timed ? Yep
Seeming a little selfish ? Yep
Can understand why others are angry ? Yep
Doesn't mean I need to misrepresent the facts to support my argument however.
They may well work some of that but certainly not all of it. So I get four weeks paid leave and a teacher gets thirteen, in my book that is nine more weeks than me.
Wrong. A teacher gets 13 weeks off work. It is UNPAID leave. They are paid for the time they are in the classroom NOT holidays. They are paid for 39 weeks of the year on their contracts (or thereabouts). The salary is split monthly for convenience.
So technically, that makes them worse off than you in one respect. You get paid for your holidays.
No, teachers, like every other profession, have holidays when they do not work. They need it because most teachers spend at least 12 hours each day doing work. Either teaching, preparing, marking, assessing or filling any one of the myriad of new forms they have to fill in nowadays.
Here's a quick one. A Student teacher. When I qualified a teacher used to write a few things for you in your file over the time you were in school. Probably amounted to a page or two of A4. Now each student has an 86 sheet booklet to be completed by the teacher. EIGHTY SIX. Teachers can have two or 3 students at a time. On top of their work required to manage the class effectively. So you do the maths.
Mr Kent, I can understand why people are aggrieved. I think the NUT are WRONG on this too. I actually agree with the general sentiments of those people who think it is a tad greedy at this time. BUT, I cannot stand to let these idle comparisons lie unchallenged about what teachers actually do for their money.
I put it to you, if a teacher was paid per hour, and allowed to charge their employers for every hour they work, perhaps with time and a half for overtime, you would find an awful lot of teachers salaries would double in an instant.
There are good teachers who deserve far more, and crap ones who should be booted out. There are militant nutters (pun intended) and there are others who would never strike regardless of the issue. My wife is one of the latter and she is not alone. So forgive me if I get riled by the nonsense spouted in threads such as this.
I wouldn't claim to know your job Mr K, it sounds damn hard graft to me. But you wouldn't like it if I or anyone else came on here and called you a "lazy arsed greedy git who just f*cks about with ink all day" (See? Told you I didn't have a clue!). That's kind of what it feels like to read some of the stuff said about "teachers" as a whole. It's as ignorant and ill-informed as the comment on your job would be.
As for the union, as I said NUT is the biggest teaching union, but by no means are all teachers in it and yet they get lumped in together.
However, if you get chance to kiss Britney's arse, give it a smack from me and tell her to grow up. She gets on my tits to be honest... ;-)
The NUT like any other union only care about the interests of its members. Teachers. It is the teachers who provide a duty of care for the children, not the NUT. A subtle difference but one that is important.
Like I said before, the timing of this is wrong, it smacks of greed and appears to be a somewhat selfish gesture especially when compared with other areas of society suffering in these times. I have absolutely no argument against those issues and I agree with them. However it is the sweeping generalisations and total misrepresentation of what teachers do that I disliked and that was the title of this post.
So to summarise.
Overpaid and underworked? Not a chance of it.
Poorly timed ? Yep
Seeming a little selfish ? Yep
Can understand why others are angry ? Yep
Doesn't mean I need to misrepresent the facts to support my argument however.
Quote by Resonance
Is it not true that teachers get some 13 weeks a year holiday?
They may well work some of that but certainly not all of it. So I get four weeks paid leave and a teacher gets thirteen, in my book that is nine more weeks than me.
Wrong. A teacher gets 13 weeks off work. It is UNPAID leave. They are paid for 39 weeks of the year on their contracts (or thereabouts). The salary is split monthly for convenience.
So technically, that makes them worse off than you in one respect. You get paid for your holidays.
No, teachers, like every other profession, have holidays when they do not work. They need it because most teachers spend at least 12 hours each day doing work. Either teaching, preparing, marking, assessing or filling any one of the myriad of new forms they have to fill in nowadays.
snip...
Twaddle :shock:
Teachers are employees and get at least minimum statutory holiday entitlements - in the absence of which, they would be paid in-lieu of holiday.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Is it not true that teachers get some 13 weeks a year holiday?
They may well work some of that but certainly not all of it. So I get four weeks paid leave and a teacher gets thirteen, in my book that is nine more weeks than me.
Wrong. A teacher gets 13 weeks off work. It is UNPAID leave. They are paid for 39 weeks of the year on their contracts (or thereabouts). The salary is split monthly for convenience.
So technically, that makes them worse off than you in one respect. You get paid for your holidays.
No, teachers, like every other profession, have holidays when they do not work. They need it because most teachers spend at least 12 hours each day doing work. Either teaching, preparing, marking, assessing or filling any one of the myriad of new forms they have to fill in nowadays.
snip...
Twaddle :shock:
Teachers are employees and get at least minimum statutory holiday entitlements - in the absence of which, they would be paid in-lieu of holiday.
I quote from speaking to my wifes employers the LEA, who informed us that she is contracted for 39 weeks work.
Twaddle it may be but that's what I was informed.
Incidentally, why can't we just say "I thought that..." and make our points? Why the need to use an epithet?
Most of what I post is twaddle anyway, so this will make no difference.
Good point Res Re Lefty bashing populism.
I think it is fair to say that if this thread was entitled
"Are nurses the most greedy underworked employees in UK?"
the reactions would have been slightly different.
I have no idea why teachers are branded lazy and over paid and nurses are hard working angels and soldiers are downtrodden heroes.
Is it envy or perhaps resentment stored over the last 20 30 40 years. What do you think.
I think it is fair to say that if this thread was entitled
"Are nurses the most greedy underworked employees in UK?"
the reactions would have been slightly different.
I have no idea why teachers are branded lazy and over paid and nurses are hard working angels and soldiers are downtrodden heroes.
Is it envy or perhaps resentment stored over the last 20 30 40 years. What do you think.
Quote by benrums0n
Good point Res Re Lefty bashing populism.
I think it is fair to say that if this thread was entitled
"Are nurses the most greedy underworked employees in UK?"
the reactions would have been slightly different.
I have no idea why teachers are branded lazy and over paid and nurses are hard working angels and soldiers are downtrodden heroes.
Is it envy or perhaps resentment stored over the last 20 30 40 years. What do you think.
I never said they were lazy or overpaid, just for the record.
I merely pointed out that it ain't half as bad as some make out.
I would not want to do their job in a classroom full of ferel yobs, like a lot of inner city schools are...there you are that is generlisation for you.
All I stated was their salary is not that bad, their holidays are rather long, and if they are only paid for 39 weeks work, then sorry their salary looks even better.
I wonder how many others on here would love to earn 25 grand for 39 weeks work. I bet a lot would.
There are far worse jobs out there, that pays much less, and have to work 48 weeks of the year to get it as well.... just like nurses!
Quote by kentswingers777
I wonder how many others on here would love to earn 25 grand for 39 weeks work. I bet a lot would.
But then when you break it down to hours worked/hours paid, it doesn't look so sweet, how many teachers by sheer workload are required to take their work home with them?
It's not a straightforward mon-fri 38hr week.
Quote by kentswingers777
Is it not true that teachers get some 13 weeks a year holiday?
It's true that teachers get 13 weeks a year when they are not required to be at their place of work.
BUT:
Christmas Day, Boxing Day, Good Friday, Easter Monday, Whit bank holiday, August bank holiday. All those bank holidays fall in school holidays so take 6 days off the teachers 13 weeks. Workers outside education get those days additional to their annual leave, or are compensated by extra pay, so it would be unfair to regard those days as extra holiday for teachers.
So now it's 11 weeks 4 days annual holiday.
Teachers are contracted to spend 39 weeks at work. Let's average 4 hours work at home every weekend (I suspect many would do more, few would do less). That's 18 and a half 8 hour working days, which is approximately 3 working weeks and 3 days. That's unpaid work, so instead of overtime let's take that off the annual holiday.
Now it's 8 weeks and one day annual holiday.
190 pupil contact days per year. Let's say an hour a night at home preparation or marking. 190 hours is approximately 23 eight hour working days. That's 4 working weeks 3 days - let's take that off.
Now it's 3 weeks 3 days annual holiday.
Not looking quite as attractive now is it?
I'm old enough to remember the tales of pay and conditions in the printing industry pre-Eddy Shah and understand it's ever so easy to slag other people's jobs as overpaid and underworked if you rely on newspaper stories to tell you the facts.
Warming the Bed
I have no problem with people being paid for what they do but lets face it the standards in this country are crap!
they have lost control and in many cases they don’t care leaving the good ones to sink and also do a crap job because of it.
parents are a major factor if there kids behaved properly they would learn more the teacher would be keener and the environment would be different etc. etc.
Britain might become great again!
Much of it stems from the fact that the parents got away with it when they were at school. It easy to see if we don’t break the loop its all over.
It time we took the gloves off and cracked the whip again
they have lost control and in many cases they don’t care leaving the good ones to sink and also do a crap job because of it.
parents are a major factor if there kids behaved properly they would learn more the teacher would be keener and the environment would be different etc. etc.
Britain might become great again!
Much of it stems from the fact that the parents got away with it when they were at school. It easy to see if we don’t break the loop its all over.
It time we took the gloves off and cracked the whip again
Sex God
Are Teachers the most greedy underworked employees in the UK? No.
How many lines are there on an A4 sheet? Cos that's the number of phone calls I've taken today. I've also eaten 2 crumpets, a bag of crisps, a chicken sandwich, a tuna and cheese sandwich (all the "ch"s :lol2
5 Jelly Babies and almost a whole tube of Pringles. I think that quite possibly makes me the most greedy, underworked employee in the UK 
How many lines are there on an A4 sheet? Cos that's the number of phone calls I've taken today. I've also eaten 2 crumpets, a bag of crisps, a chicken sandwich, a tuna and cheese sandwich (all the "ch"s :lol2
5 Jelly Babies and almost a whole tube of Pringles. I think that quite possibly makes me the most greedy, underworked employee in the UK Sex God
Quote by Angel Chat
Are Teachers the most greedy underworked employees in the UK? No.
How many lines are there on an A4 sheet? Cos that's the number of phone calls I've taken today. I've also eaten 2 crumpets, a bag of crisps, a chicken sandwich, a tuna and cheese sandwich (all the "ch"s :lol2
Sex God
Quote by simon04sw
I have no problem with people being paid for what they do but lets face it the standards in this country are crap!
they have lost control and in many cases they don’t care leaving the good ones to sink and also do a crap job because of it.
parents are a major factor if there kids behaved properly they would learn more the teacher would be keener and the environment would be different etc. etc.
Britain might become great again!
Much of it stems from the fact that the parents got away with it when they were at school. It easy to see if we don’t break the loop its all over.
It time we took the gloves off and cracked the whip again
You have a point, well about the fact that standards are crap, not especially about making Britain great lol.
I know 18 year old university students who cannot spell really very easy words, who's grammar is appalling, and who could not think independently if their lives depended on it.
How much responsibility actual teachers have for this, I don't know. I guess it may be the fault of "the system" rather than individuals. However, my niece who is 6 (in Yr 2) was told by her teacher that she was reading too many books and to stop reading every night - seriously..... WTF??????
But, there are ill thinking muppets in every profession, it does not mean that the profession as a whole should not be paid fairly for what they do.
In the interests of balance, could I just say that many, many people in the private sector regularly work outside of their normal contracted hours and do not receive any additional is not the sole preserve of teachers.
In addition, the numbers of people in the private sector who are on the “gravy train†are relatively vast majority being rank and file (not meant derogatorily) employees who have absolutely no chance of receiving an annual £3000 salary increase and whose pension arrangements are usually vastly inferior to public sector in a lot of cases are non existent unless they have their own private arrangements.
The recent furore over politician’s expenses, recently published local authority chief executive’s salaries and councillors expenses show that the gravy train well and truly exists in the public sector too.
For the record, I’m not knocking teachers. They do a very difficult job and certainly not one I would want to do. In my day they were able to discipline kids and in the main we had a very healthy respect for them, not so today. So would I agree with the OP’s question? not…but I have to agree with Res that their claim is ill timed
In addition, the numbers of people in the private sector who are on the “gravy train†are relatively vast majority being rank and file (not meant derogatorily) employees who have absolutely no chance of receiving an annual £3000 salary increase and whose pension arrangements are usually vastly inferior to public sector in a lot of cases are non existent unless they have their own private arrangements.
The recent furore over politician’s expenses, recently published local authority chief executive’s salaries and councillors expenses show that the gravy train well and truly exists in the public sector too.
For the record, I’m not knocking teachers. They do a very difficult job and certainly not one I would want to do. In my day they were able to discipline kids and in the main we had a very healthy respect for them, not so today. So would I agree with the OP’s question? not…but I have to agree with Res that their claim is ill timed
Orgasminator
Quote by simon04sw
I have no problem with people being paid for what they do but lets face it the standards in this country are crap!
they have lost control and in many cases they don’t care leaving the good ones to sink and also do a crap job because of it.
parents are a major factor if there kids behaved properly they would learn more the teacher would be keener and the environment would be different etc. might become great again!
Much of it stems from the fact that the parents got away with it when they were at school. It easy to see if we don’t break the loop its all over.
It time we took the gloves off and cracked the whip again
You have hit the nail on the head :!:
Working in education myself i'm very much aware how parents treat and speak to their children and are not made aware of their environment. Litter being thrown out of car windows by adults near the school gates being a prime example and it's so sad that tv and computer games are the modern day childminders. As for tv's in bedrooms and mobile phones for five year old's.....well words fail me. :!:
Sexpert
Right!!
My ex is a teacher.
She teaches early years (I would call it child minding)
Her math and english are both poor, science non-existant, geography extremely weak, art - she wouldn't know a Renoir from a Renault, and the only culture she has is when she eats a yakult.
It could be said she's partly bilingual, fluent yam yam and broken english.
How she got her degree, Lord only knows.
In the 4 years since qualifying, she now commands over £30k a year and is in line for another promotion.
She only has to go in to school for one or two days each school holiday so has most of the 13 weeks off.
In addition, she's a raging homophobe with racist tendencies, teaching in a predominately ethnic school ffs!!
(you may wonder why I married her - I've wondered that too - I guess it was a Pygmalian thing that never worked out)
A friend of mine is a grammar school educated Senior Staff Nurse with two degrees and has been practising for 7 years. She has daily responsibility for life and death situations with critically ill patients.
By working all the nights and flexi bank shifts she can manage, she commands the princely sum of £24k a year.
Education standards down - you bet they are
Teachers overpaid - yes
Nurses undervalued - definately
A final note - I'm doing another degree myself (BSc). When it comes to math and physics, most of my (much younger) cohort don't have much of the stuff I learned for O level nearly 30 years ago, let alone A level!!
Rant over
My ex is a teacher.
She teaches early years (I would call it child minding)
Her math and english are both poor, science non-existant, geography extremely weak, art - she wouldn't know a Renoir from a Renault, and the only culture she has is when she eats a yakult.
It could be said she's partly bilingual, fluent yam yam and broken english.
How she got her degree, Lord only knows.
In the 4 years since qualifying, she now commands over £30k a year and is in line for another promotion.
She only has to go in to school for one or two days each school holiday so has most of the 13 weeks off.
In addition, she's a raging homophobe with racist tendencies, teaching in a predominately ethnic school ffs!!
(you may wonder why I married her - I've wondered that too - I guess it was a Pygmalian thing that never worked out)
A friend of mine is a grammar school educated Senior Staff Nurse with two degrees and has been practising for 7 years. She has daily responsibility for life and death situations with critically ill patients.
By working all the nights and flexi bank shifts she can manage, she commands the princely sum of £24k a year.
Education standards down - you bet they are
Teachers overpaid - yes
Nurses undervalued - definately
A final note - I'm doing another degree myself (BSc). When it comes to math and physics, most of my (much younger) cohort don't have much of the stuff I learned for O level nearly 30 years ago, let alone A level!!
Rant over
Quote by easyrider_xxx
Right!!
My ex is a teacher.
She teaches early years (I would call it child minding)
Her math and english are both poor, science non-existant, geography extremely weak, art - she wouldn't know a Renoir from a Renault, and the only culture she has is when she eats a yakult.
It could be said she's partly bilingual, fluent yam yam and broken english.
How she got her degree, Lord only knows.
In the 4 years since qualifying, she now commands over £30k a year and is in line for another promotion.
She only has to go in to school for one or two days each school holiday so has most of the 13 weeks off.
In addition, she's a raging homophobe with racist tendencies, teaching in a predominately ethnic school ffs!!
(you may wonder why I married her - I've wondered that too - I guess it was a Pygmalian thing that never worked out)
A friend of mine is a grammar school educated Senior Staff Nurse with two degrees and has been practising for 7 years. She has daily responsibility for life and death situations with critically ill patients.
By working all the nights and flexi bank shifts she can manage, she commands the princely sum of £24k a year.
Education standards down - you bet they are
Teachers overpaid - yes
Nurses undervalued - definately
A final note - I'm doing another degree myself (BSc). When it comes to math and physics, most of my (much younger) cohort don't have much of the stuff I learned for O level nearly 30 years ago, let alone A level!!
Rant over
Because over the years it has become easier. The exams have got easier and so has getting a degree.
When you make things easier to achieve, the standards fall down badly. Mrs777's Daughter like a lot of kids are being allowed to take their GCSE'S a year earlier. Whatever the results are they can still do them again next year too.
So as an example if a child took English a year earlier and say got a b grade this year, they can take it again next year to achieve a higher grade but..... if next year that child only managed a c grade, the higher one will be given in their exam results. What an absolute joke to manipulate the figures.
That is two bites at the cherry. When I see the exam results each year at something like a 98% pass rate, no wonder why they are.
Sorry but teaching standards have dropped big time, and as you prove just because you have a degree does not make you " fit for purpose ".
I know someone who went to Brighton Uni for four years, she got her degree without ever taking one single exam. All done through course work and sitations...spelt wrong probably.
Or what about the kids nowadays who can take two different GCSE papers, depending on your ability? Whatever happened to doing five years of studying and then everyone takes the same exam? Then you get a TRUE reflextion of ones ability.
But then that would not help figures would it now?
One of the questions for a GCSE paper in science last year was..... what would you look at the stars with, a stethoscope, a magnifying glass, a telescope, I cannot remember the fourth answer.
And they will have you believe they are hard exams. If that is the sort of question they deem to be hard, then God help our next generation.
Kenty wrote:
I know someone who went to Brighton Uni for four years, she got her degree without ever taking one single exam. All done through course work and sitations...spelt wrong probably.
I'm sorry- really I am. But that one just made me choke on my toast.
Sensible reply coming up, post toast removal.
I know someone who went to Brighton Uni for four years, she got her degree without ever taking one single exam. All done through course work and sitations...spelt wrong probably.
I'm sorry- really I am. But that one just made me choke on my toast.
Sensible reply coming up, post toast removal.
