I'm predicting a massive increase in votes for all the fringe groups, minority parties, single issue parties, and independents. The BNP will gain from the current political climate, but so to will the Green Party, in fact it's a shame Lord Such is no longer with us.
I also predict that Gordon Brown will face a vote of confidence soon, and lose. He will be remembered as the worst and least successful prime minister ever, even John Major won one election.
It's all very interesting to watch, but I feel that nothing will change much whoever is elected. And extremists will never win anything important here, left or right.
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Quote by RiotandantonyI do - Because given the opportunity, the BNP would not allow you the freedom that you currently enjoy ... They poison people's minds and would destroy everything that's left of civil liberties in this country. You wanna cure cancer you cut it out and throw it away.
We do live in a democracy, I don't think the BNP or anyone else should be banned, whether they are from the right such as the BNP, the left such as the communist party, or the anarchists such as the Class War Federation.
Quote by RiotandantonyAbsolutely, and it's a failure to discuss certain issues that's led to a rise in support for fascist scum (I choose my words carefully). So, yes discuss immigration, culture and identity and work out how to address it better - as sweeping it under the carpet just paves the way to neo-Nazism.
Sometimes controversial or uncomfortable views must be discussed for the benefit of society, however "raw" these are.
Banning views is not actually dealing with the issue.
Quote by WaterpistolI do - Because given the opportunity, the BNP would not allow you the freedom that you currently enjoy ... They poison people's minds and would destroy everything that's left of civil liberties in this country. You wanna cure cancer you cut it out and throw it away.
We do live in a democracy, I don't think the BNP or anyone else should be banned, whether they are from the right such as the BNP, the left such as the communist party, or the anarchists such as the Class War Federation.
Quote by RiotandantonyAbsolutely, and it's a failure to discuss certain issues that's led to a rise in support for fascist scum (I choose my words carefully). So, yes discuss immigration, culture and identity and work out how to address it better - as sweeping it under the carpet just paves the way to neo-Nazism.
Sometimes controversial or uncomfortable views must be discussed for the benefit of society, however "raw" these are.
Banning views is not actually dealing with the issue.
Funny how you can use that one word in one thread, and then in another thread it gets locked, with all sorts of possible repurcussions. :shock: :shock:
Either you can use the word or not?
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777I do - Because given the opportunity, the BNP would not allow you the freedom that you currently enjoy ... They poison people's minds and would destroy everything that's left of civil liberties in this country. You wanna cure cancer you cut it out and throw it away.
We do live in a democracy, I don't think the BNP or anyone else should be banned, whether they are from the right such as the BNP, the left such as the communist party, or the anarchists such as the Class War Federation.
Quote by RiotandantonyAbsolutely, and it's a failure to discuss certain issues that's led to a rise in support for fascist scum (I choose my words carefully). So, yes discuss immigration, culture and identity and work out how to address it better - as sweeping it under the carpet just paves the way to neo-Nazism.
Sometimes controversial or uncomfortable views must be discussed for the benefit of society, however "raw" these are.
Banning views is not actually dealing with the issue.
Funny how you can use that one word in one thread, and then in another thread it gets locked, with all sorts of possible repurcussions. :shock: :shock:
Either you can use the word or not?
Stop shit stirring
Maybe nobody else has spotted it, as it was posted at 245am?
Mod
Quote by kentswingers777
Funny how you can use that one word in one thread, and then in another thread it gets locked, with all sorts of possible repurcussions. :shock: :shock:
Either you can use the word or not?
There are many ways of interpreting many thousands of words and the context in which it is used. Your quote "Either you can use the word or not?" is bollocks as not everything is in black and white, as well you know it, so stop trying to create something out of nothing.
Mal
Sexlightened
Quote by WaterpistolI do - Because given the opportunity, the BNP would not allow you the freedom that you currently enjoy ... They poison people's minds and would destroy everything that's left of civil liberties in this country. You wanna cure cancer you cut it out and throw it away.
We do live in a democracy, I don't think the BNP or anyone else should be banned, whether they are from the right such as the BNP, the left such as the communist party, or the anarchists such as the Class War Federation.
Quote by RiotandantonyAbsolutely, and it's a failure to discuss certain issues that's led to a rise in support for fascist scum (I choose my words carefully). So, yes discuss immigration, culture and identity and work out how to address it better - as sweeping it under the carpet just paves the way to neo-Nazism.
Sometimes controversial or uncomfortable views must be discussed for the benefit of society, however "raw" these are.
Banning views is not actually dealing with the issue.
I still don't think they, or anyone else should be banned ! You are right to say that issues such as immigration, culture and identity etc should be discussed, but the fact is for too long, none of the major partys or media have done so.
The BNP gain support because they are seen as the only party (apart from possibly UKIP) who are discussing immigration etc.
For too long the left, liberals and pc jobsworths have smeared anyone who critiscises the mess our current immigration policy is in, or dislikes the creeping islamisation of our society as "racist" or "islamophobic" or some such rubbish.
(oh, and by the way, I'm neither racist nor a bnp member !)
Quote by kentswingers777In all honesty I'm not active enough on this forum to understand the dynamics of this place or understand what kind of words are acceptable or not, but if it makes you happier I can change it to "highly contemptible specimens of humanity" if you like.
Funny how you can use that one word in one thread, and then in another thread it gets locked, with all sorts of possible repurcussions. :shock: :shock:
Either you can use the word or not?
I really have no time for Nazi apologists.
Sex God
Quote by WaterpistolIn all honesty I'm not active enough on this forum to understand the dynamics of this place or understand what kind of words are acceptable or not, but if it makes you happier I can change it to "highly contemptible specimens of humanity" if you like.
Funny how you can use that one word in one thread, and then in another thread it gets locked, with all sorts of possible repurcussions. :shock: :shock:
Either you can use the word or not?
I really have no time for Nazi apologists.
Neither do most of us on here, I reckon! :thumbup:
:welcome: to the forum Waterpistol!
Sex God
I loathe the way immigration is bandied around like a soiled nappy at the Queens tea party.
We have no problem with immigration in this country.
It is illegal immigration we have a problem with.
Why?
Because the system we have to deal with the problem doesn't deter, but facilitate it. Do you really think people would embark on, or even more sadly, send their young children on highly dangerous, illegal journeys to get here if our system wasn't so easy to exploit and abuse? How bad must things be at home for families to send young children thousands of miles away? Is this a cynical exploitation of Britain's generosity and welfare system or could it be that life at home is so crap that even coming here as a vilified by many, illegal immigrant represents a much better chance for them in life?
If the shoe was on the other foot, and we were on the bones of our arses, threatened with death and misery at every juncture, and we knew if we could get to Ireland or France life would be markedly better even as an illegal immigrant and there is always a chance you can appeal to stay if you get caught (which not too many do), would you go for you and your kids? I would. I'd even learn French and eat snails and horses, fart the Marsellaise and wear a beret if it made me fit in. (Lazy stereotypical racism is so easy when you want to indulge...)
BNP and those of their ilk thrive on pointing the finger at people and specific groups. Their simple-minded, brainless, blame approach to the problems of Britain totally ignores the fact that we, the fantastic British people and our succession of Governments (Labour AND Conservative), have created this problem entirely. The fault lies with the system we have created. Immigrants are people like you and I. Yes it is an issue that needs to be addressed but it needs to be addressed by changing the system, removing the incentives to come here, removing the ease at which the system can be exploited and abused. It is the system at fault and that needs changing. That's why these people come here, rather than Sweden or Italy or Bulgaria or Spain. It isn't the weather, fish and chips or fantastic hospitality. Sadly that isn't a vote winner. Blaming all these "immigrants" is, because it appeals to the lowest common denominator. A blithe, mindless form of finger-pointing that starts out as mildly racist marginalisation, which when propagated by those with power can eventually, if they choose to do so, end up in genocide.
To slam "immigration" as the problem does a great disservice to all the millions of honest, hard working, migrants who have come into the UK over the past 50-100 years and made a strong, consistent, important and irreplacable contribution to society. It is these people the BNP will target as much as those you see leaping onto trucks at Sangatte.
The BNP offer nothing more than the soundbites of the disgruntled. A simple-minded, moronic approach to politics where there real agenda lays hidden beneath trite words and the meaningless rhetoric of their "manifesto". Mr Kent is right, it isn't what is overtly expressed, but what is between the lines. It is the bile induced rantings of fear, hate and prejudice. It has no place in a modern society.
We say we are a free country with free speech. However some speeches are not worth hearing. It isn't an issue of censorship, but of right and wrong. The BNP are no better and no more or less, than the likes of Abu Hamza. We only tolerate them because they hide their true meaning beneath the thin guise of political rhetoric, suits and ties and tea parties with the queen. Vicious, evil bile is vicious evil bile regardless if you wear a suit and tie, or have a hook on your hand.
It's a simple answer for the simple minded. Blame the ones with a different culture, who speak differently, who have different skin tone, who wear things on their head... It's not "our" fault. THEY are causing the problem and WE are paying for it. Us and Them.
It goes down well in the world of the mindless Jeremy Clarkson fan, where everything is black and white, good and bad and where we can do no wrong, and everyone else no right. Where every answer is simple, it's just common sense if they'd care to listen to me. It panders to the fear and misunderstanding, often supported by the scandalous right wing media, that propagates through society in more difficult times, where we seek a simple solution to the problems we face. Someone to blame.
To stop illegal immigration we need to do two things. Firstly make Britain no longer a "soft target" by legislating effectively against illegal immigrants, while making legal immigration perfectly available provided the correct rules are followed. Secondly we need to remove the NEED to come here by making these immigrants true home a place where they and their children can lead safe and happy lives. Not an easy task the second part in particular. But I believe it is the right one.
Or we can take everyone who doesn't fit into a certain criteria and drop ship them into Kandahar, if we are being kind.
The BNP are not a protest vote against the ineffectiveness of the Government. They are a vote for intolerance, marginalisation, hate and prejudice. They won't solve any problems, merely exacerbate the current problems we face as a society.
We have no problem with immigration in this country.
It is illegal immigration we have a problem with.
Why?
Because the system we have to deal with the problem doesn't deter, but facilitate it. Do you really think people would embark on, or even more sadly, send their young children on highly dangerous, illegal journeys to get here if our system wasn't so easy to exploit and abuse? How bad must things be at home for families to send young children thousands of miles away? Is this a cynical exploitation of Britain's generosity and welfare system or could it be that life at home is so crap that even coming here as a vilified by many, illegal immigrant represents a much better chance for them in life?
If the shoe was on the other foot, and we were on the bones of our arses, threatened with death and misery at every juncture, and we knew if we could get to Ireland or France life would be markedly better even as an illegal immigrant and there is always a chance you can appeal to stay if you get caught (which not too many do), would you go for you and your kids? I would. I'd even learn French and eat snails and horses, fart the Marsellaise and wear a beret if it made me fit in. (Lazy stereotypical racism is so easy when you want to indulge...)
BNP and those of their ilk thrive on pointing the finger at people and specific groups. Their simple-minded, brainless, blame approach to the problems of Britain totally ignores the fact that we, the fantastic British people and our succession of Governments (Labour AND Conservative), have created this problem entirely. The fault lies with the system we have created. Immigrants are people like you and I. Yes it is an issue that needs to be addressed but it needs to be addressed by changing the system, removing the incentives to come here, removing the ease at which the system can be exploited and abused. It is the system at fault and that needs changing. That's why these people come here, rather than Sweden or Italy or Bulgaria or Spain. It isn't the weather, fish and chips or fantastic hospitality. Sadly that isn't a vote winner. Blaming all these "immigrants" is, because it appeals to the lowest common denominator. A blithe, mindless form of finger-pointing that starts out as mildly racist marginalisation, which when propagated by those with power can eventually, if they choose to do so, end up in genocide.
To slam "immigration" as the problem does a great disservice to all the millions of honest, hard working, migrants who have come into the UK over the past 50-100 years and made a strong, consistent, important and irreplacable contribution to society. It is these people the BNP will target as much as those you see leaping onto trucks at Sangatte.
The BNP offer nothing more than the soundbites of the disgruntled. A simple-minded, moronic approach to politics where there real agenda lays hidden beneath trite words and the meaningless rhetoric of their "manifesto". Mr Kent is right, it isn't what is overtly expressed, but what is between the lines. It is the bile induced rantings of fear, hate and prejudice. It has no place in a modern society.
We say we are a free country with free speech. However some speeches are not worth hearing. It isn't an issue of censorship, but of right and wrong. The BNP are no better and no more or less, than the likes of Abu Hamza. We only tolerate them because they hide their true meaning beneath the thin guise of political rhetoric, suits and ties and tea parties with the queen. Vicious, evil bile is vicious evil bile regardless if you wear a suit and tie, or have a hook on your hand.
It's a simple answer for the simple minded. Blame the ones with a different culture, who speak differently, who have different skin tone, who wear things on their head... It's not "our" fault. THEY are causing the problem and WE are paying for it. Us and Them.
It goes down well in the world of the mindless Jeremy Clarkson fan, where everything is black and white, good and bad and where we can do no wrong, and everyone else no right. Where every answer is simple, it's just common sense if they'd care to listen to me. It panders to the fear and misunderstanding, often supported by the scandalous right wing media, that propagates through society in more difficult times, where we seek a simple solution to the problems we face. Someone to blame.
To stop illegal immigration we need to do two things. Firstly make Britain no longer a "soft target" by legislating effectively against illegal immigrants, while making legal immigration perfectly available provided the correct rules are followed. Secondly we need to remove the NEED to come here by making these immigrants true home a place where they and their children can lead safe and happy lives. Not an easy task the second part in particular. But I believe it is the right one.
Or we can take everyone who doesn't fit into a certain criteria and drop ship them into Kandahar, if we are being kind.
The BNP are not a protest vote against the ineffectiveness of the Government. They are a vote for intolerance, marginalisation, hate and prejudice. They won't solve any problems, merely exacerbate the current problems we face as a society.
you until you wrote the *F* word. 
Quote by FreckledbirdI do - Because given the opportunity, the BNP would not allow you the freedom that you currently enjoy ... They poison people's minds and would destroy everything that's left of civil liberties in this country. You wanna cure cancer you cut it out and throw it away.
We do live in a democracy, I don't think the BNP or anyone else should be banned, whether they are from the right such as the BNP, the left such as the communist party, or the anarchists such as the Class War Federation.
Quote by RiotandantonyAbsolutely, and it's a failure to discuss certain issues that's led to a rise in support for fascist scum (I choose my words carefully). So, yes discuss immigration, culture and identity and work out how to address it better - as sweeping it under the carpet just paves the way to neo-Nazism.
Sometimes controversial or uncomfortable views must be discussed for the benefit of society, however "raw" these are.
Banning views is not actually dealing with the issue.
Funny how you can use that one word in one thread, and then in another thread it gets locked, with all sorts of possible repurcussions. :shock: :shock:
Either you can use the word or not?
Stop shit stirring
Maybe nobody else has spotted it, as it was posted at 245am?
You should know me better than that.
It was an observational point. MY thread got locked for that, so was a simple question as to in what context can it be used.
I am soooooooooo sorry. Blimey.
Quote by kentswingers777Well from what I see of the other thread, you tarred an entire racial group as scum, whereas political affiliation has choice attached to it.
You should know me better than that.
It was an observational point. MY thread got locked for that, so was a simple question as to in what context can it be used.
I am soooooooooo sorry. Blimey.
You can choose to be a nazi, you can't choose to be a traveller.
A very good post as always Res but....your comment " We have no problem with immigration in this country ", who exactly are the we?
Most people that I speak to DO have a problem with immigration. It seems that most people are too scared to say so in open public space nowadays, for fear of being called a " racist ".
I have to ask the question, why do people travel through sometimes five countries, to get to the UK? IF they are coming from such a bad country and then claim asylum, surely it should be at the first safe country they enter?
The people I speak to also see these people doing jobs for a fraction of what an employer used to/or should pay, therefore denying Brits who have lived here for years a chance of a decent wage. That is how a lot of people see things.
I do not know the figures involved, but what I feel is that Britain cannot sustain this high level of immigration, in this current climate.
There has to be some kind of control, and the system should be changed.
I have no doubt at all that immigrants contribute greatly to the UK, blimey we have employed many Poles in the last couple of years, and they are more hard working, than Brits that we have employed.
Answers? I do not have any but....the BNP has gained strength and numbers in recent years and we as a society have to find the real reasons behind this, and then try to find the right answers. Possible? I do not know.
Most people that I speak to DO have a problem with immigration. It seems that most people are too scared to say so in open public space nowadays, for fear of being called a " racist ".
I have to ask the question, why do people travel through sometimes five countries, to get to the UK? IF they are coming from such a bad country and then claim asylum, surely it should be at the first safe country they enter?
The people I speak to also see these people doing jobs for a fraction of what an employer used to/or should pay, therefore denying Brits who have lived here for years a chance of a decent wage. That is how a lot of people see things.
I do not know the figures involved, but what I feel is that Britain cannot sustain this high level of immigration, in this current climate.
There has to be some kind of control, and the system should be changed.
I have no doubt at all that immigrants contribute greatly to the UK, blimey we have employed many Poles in the last couple of years, and they are more hard working, than Brits that we have employed.
Answers? I do not have any but....the BNP has gained strength and numbers in recent years and we as a society have to find the real reasons behind this, and then try to find the right answers. Possible? I do not know.
Quote by WaterpistolWell from what I see of the other thread, you tarred an entire racial group as scum, whereas political affiliation has choice attached to it.
You should know me better than that.
It was an observational point. MY thread got locked for that, so was a simple question as to in what context can it be used.
I am soooooooooo sorry. Blimey.
You can choose to be a nazi, you can't choose to be a traveller.
IF you are talking about the travellers thread, It was not me who used that term to describe a group.
Please read it again.
Strangely enough the UK has one of the largest exporters of nationals to the EU. Loads of brits actually settle abroad...or at least they did before the economy went into meltdown.
As for the BNP, like many politicians they jump and feast on populist topics and fail to manifest coherent policies. Would I vote for them...hell no!
Good luck to them. If they got into power this country would melt down. Their immigration 'joke' i mean policy basically would cause the service and healthcare industry to collapse.
It is a democracy and people have the right to vote for who they like. But a rise in popularity for the far right always happens as the world hits an economic downturn. And yes as a mixed race guy it definitely worries me.
As for the BNP, like many politicians they jump and feast on populist topics and fail to manifest coherent policies. Would I vote for them...hell no!
Good luck to them. If they got into power this country would melt down. Their immigration 'joke' i mean policy basically would cause the service and healthcare industry to collapse.
It is a democracy and people have the right to vote for who they like. But a rise in popularity for the far right always happens as the world hits an economic downturn. And yes as a mixed race guy it definitely worries me.
Quote by kentswingers777
A very good post as always Res but....your comment " We have no problem with immigration in this country ", who exactly are the we?
Most people that I speak to DO have a problem with immigration. It seems that most people are too scared to say so in open public space nowadays, for fear of being called a " racist ".
I have to ask the question, why do people travel through sometimes five countries, to get to the UK? IF they are coming from such a bad country and then claim asylum, surely it should be at the first safe country they enter?
The people I speak to also see these people doing jobs for a fraction of what an employer used to/or should pay, therefore denying Brits who have lived here for years a chance of a decent wage. That is how a lot of people see things.
I do not know the figures involved, but what I feel is that Britain cannot sustain this high level of immigration, in this current climate.
There has to be some kind of control, and the system should be changed.
I have no doubt at all that immigrants contribute greatly to the UK, blimey we have employed many Poles in the last couple of years, and they are more hard working, than Brits that we have employed.
Answers? I do not have any but....the BNP has gained strength and numbers in recent years and we as a society have to find the real reasons behind this, and then try to find the right answers. Possible? I do not know.
I think people are starting to lose sight of the FACT that it is not the fault of the immigrants that there are so many of them here, it is the fault of politicians left right and centre. Thatcher would never have defeated the unions without the help of migrant workers, and as daft as it might sound the Blair / Brown regimes have used a cheap imported workforce to aid their capitalist intentions.
YES we are being screwed, but don't blame people who walked in through a wide open door to a better life.
BTW, I don't think this is a good place for discussing politics, we are supposed to be looking to hook up not finding reasons to fall out.
When it comes to immigration everyone should really check the immigration to emmigration ratio.
Folks have been emmigrating from this country a lot longer than people who choose to emmigrate here.
Our population is declining and at the current rate the welfare system will be unable to be supported by the working population by 2050 (thats not due to too many on welfare but not enough folks inthis country full stop, biggest burden on the welfare system is the state pension)
Folks have been emmigrating from this country a lot longer than people who choose to emmigrate here.
Our population is declining and at the current rate the welfare system will be unable to be supported by the working population by 2050 (thats not due to too many on welfare but not enough folks inthis country full stop, biggest burden on the welfare system is the state pension)
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
A very good post as always Res but....your comment " We have no problem with immigration in this country ", who exactly are the we?
Most people that I speak to DO have a problem with immigration. It seems that most people are too scared to say so in open public space nowadays, for fear of being called a " racist ".
I have to ask the question, why do people travel through sometimes five countries, to get to the UK? IF they are coming from such a bad country and then claim asylum, surely it should be at the first safe country they enter?
The people I speak to also see these people doing jobs for a fraction of what an employer used to/or should pay, therefore denying Brits who have lived here for years a chance of a decent wage. That is how a lot of people see things.
I do not know the figures involved, but what I feel is that Britain cannot sustain this high level of immigration, in this current climate.
There has to be some kind of control, and the system should be changed.
I have no doubt at all that immigrants contribute greatly to the UK, blimey we have employed many Poles in the last couple of years, and they are more hard working, than Brits that we have employed.
Answers? I do not have any but....the BNP has gained strength and numbers in recent years and we as a society have to find the real reasons behind this, and then try to find the right answers. Possible? I do not know.
By "we" I kind of mean the Great British Public in general Kenty. I agree that many people DO think we have a problem with immigration, that was kind of my point really (badly made, my apologies). My argument is that we don't have a problem with LEGAL immigration here, we have a big problem with illegal immigration, which is something entirely different. However both get lumped together into one big problem. That I feel is unfair on those who legitimately resettle here and have resettled here in the past and become, as you well noted, valued, contributing members of British society.
As for Witchy's "f" word comment. I have no bone to pick with our dear cousins across the channel, I merely decided to show how easy it is to be lazily racist. I could have done it for the Irish, or indeed pretty much anywhere. There's plenty of ammunition wherever you look in the world, on our own doorstep for starters! ;-) (For the record, I don't own a shell suit... but I did once!)
There's no easy answers I believe either Mr K, but I don't think people should opt for the easiest option and find a "group" to blame. History proves it is the wrong path to tread. We seem dury bound in this country to boast of our rich heritage and proud history, we could do well to learn from the less auspicious parts of ours, and other countries, past at times.
I also love reading Clarkson and his TV shows. However there are a growing number of people who think the straightforward common sense he speaks is in fact the right way forward. It isn't, it is done for comic effect (quite brilliantly at times). As a TV presenter and writer he is excellent, controversial yes, but not everyone wants Phillip Schofield on every show. But it's the burberry wearing followers who hawk on his every word as the answer to everything that is wrong on this country, blatantly missing the point that it is written deliberately to provoke (in the same way that many racists loved Alf Garnett, without understanding, Johnny Speight wrote that to satirise THEM, not endorse their beliefs) that get on my fulsome moob-bags. Clarkson is very funny and has a job many would love to do, but lets not make him the spokesperson of the forgotten generation. He provides as balanced a view politically as Pravda or Fox News.
Sex God
Quote by Cherrytree
Oh, FGS you bunch of...of...twerps! There, you made me swear!
I like the French! I like France! It was the other F*** word! Count the asterixeseses.
You can't make me say it, so there.
Is this related to cakes on another thread?
<<<Shudders>>>
