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British Airways Strike - A shot in both feet?

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We are in the midst of a global recession, BA along with most airlines are losing fortunes on a daily basis. In some neighbouring countries civil employees are being forced to take a pay cut. "Green" (ahem) taxes are threatening the airlines ever more and BA management (maybe ineptly) are trying to ride out the storm with arguably correct fiscal propositions.
So, if you are BA staff, is it a shot in the foot to vote for a strike in the current economic climate? Or is it a shot in both feet and are we about to see the end of BA as we know it along with the strikers jobs.
Discuss.
I know nothing about it really, but I did hear on the radio that BA staff are paid twice as much as Virgin, and Virgin staff are not striking
Dave_Notts
Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind.
Perhaps what is just as galling is the the other long-haul carriers upping their prices to take advantage.
Quote by GnV
Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind.
Perhaps what is just as galling is the the other long-haul carriers upping their prices to take advantage.

Its just greed, i know 2 "trolly dollys" and they see the world over and over free of charge and tell me the job is and i quote "a doddle" alright they might only get 24 to 48 hours in most countries but its more opportunities than others get and a perk of the job.
I dont find it "galling" that other companies have upped there prices, most people will have purchased tickets before the strike was announced and those that have not were hanging on for a cheap deal and took that risk, people have a choice pay the higher prices or change there plans........... simples.
Quote by jumptoit
Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind.
Perhaps what is just as galling is the the other long-haul carriers upping their prices to take advantage.

Its just greed, i know 2 "trolly dollys" and they see the world over and over free of charge and tell me the job is and i quote "a doddle" alright they might only get 24 to 48 hours in most countries but its more opportunities than others get and a perk of the job.
I dont find it "galling" that other companies have upped there prices, most people will have purchased tickets before the strike was announced and those that have not were hanging on for a cheap deal and took that risk, people have a choice pay the higher prices or change there plans........... simples.
Not sure that I follow this line of thought. First of all, there is no point in anyone hanging on in the hope of a cheap deal at Christmas time with scheduled airlines. This is a peak time for the airlines and their prices reflect that, even during a recession. Secondly, those who have purchased their tickets with BA are in a state of limbo until BA decide which schedules are going to be affected. They could purchase alternative tickets with another airline but then would not be able to claim a refund from BA if their original flight went ahead. Thirdly, changing plans is hardly an option. Many will be travelling to be reunited with family and friends for the Christmas holidays whilst others will be flying to holidays that are already booked. As for other carriers upping their prices, it's simply supply and demand.
My viewpoint on this situation is a little divided. Whilst I'm a firm believer in a business being able to take such measures as required to ensure its viability and therefore ( hopefully) secure not only its own future but also the future of its workforce, I know from experience just how arrogant the management of BA can be/are and am no lover of the company per se and therefore do have some sympathy for the cabin crew. The statement that BA's cabin crew are paid twice that of Virgin's must be a little questionable. From what I understand, BA cabin crew are paid between £22k and £29k per annum, I can't see Virgin cabin crew working for between £11K and £15K, even with the sexy red uniform thrown in! wink
It's true Virgin cabin crew get paid between 11K to 15K but with allowances of per annum takes it up to about 20k, comparable to BA's with allowances of
It is the right of any worker to withdraw their labour
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It is the right of any worker to withdraw their labour

Is it then a measure of their own stupidity to withdraw their labour in this current economic climate?
You don't have to be too bright to see that global airlines are having a torrid time at the moment. They must be able to see that the changes currently being challenged are being brought in are as a direct result of this downturn and forcing BA to lose even more money is likely to result in ever more desperate measures by BA Directors to be able to remain "afloat."
It's all academic now, the High Court has ruled the strike illegal.
Quote by Max777
It's all academic now, the High Court has ruled the strike illegal.

Only cos of identified problems with the ballot. It just needs another ballot and they will be off again. But I guess that will be after Christmas now.
With the UK unemployment rate at its highest in 13 years you think people would actually be greatful for a job.
I run a small business and time are hard, im sent 50 or so CVs a week.
Would any of you if told you where going to have to take a 30% pay cut (or so I'm informed) not seriously consider strike action ??
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Would any of you if told you where going to have to take a 30% pay cut (or so I'm informed) not seriously consider strike action ??

Seriously consider it yes, actually vote for it no, a 30 per cent wage cut is better than the dole, having a job is better than having no job and striking in this case could seriously lose people their jobs as BA have to make savings to stay afloat.
Quote by Kaznkev
Would any of you if told you where going to have to take a 30% pay cut (or so I'm informed) not seriously consider strike action ??

Seriously consider it yes, actually vote for it no, a 30 per cent wage cut is better than the dole, having a job is better than having no job and striking in this case could seriously lose people their jobs as BA have to make savings to stay afloat.
So the shareholders wont be getting dividends this year i take it,and no doubt the directors ,who aare responsible for any probems ,will have a larger pay cut. The workers have a right to ask why it is always them who get shafted
The customers pay for it too.. they seem to be getting shafted as well
Quote by GnV
Would any of you if told you where going to have to take a 30% pay cut (or so I'm informed) not seriously consider strike action ??

Seriously consider it yes, actually vote for it no, a 30 per cent wage cut is better than the dole, having a job is better than having no job and striking in this case could seriously lose people their jobs as BA have to make savings to stay afloat.
So the shareholders wont be getting dividends this year i take it,and no doubt the directors ,who aare responsible for any probems ,will have a larger pay cut. The workers have a right to ask why it is always them who get shafted
The customers pay for it too.. they seem to be getting shafted as well
BA has paid only one dividend in the past 7 years, so I doubt very much as to whether shareholders will be getting one this year.
Quote by jumptoit
Would any of you if told you where going to have to take a 30% pay cut (or so I'm informed) not seriously consider strike action ??

Seriously consider it yes, actually vote for it no, a 30 per cent wage cut is better than the dole, having a job is better than having no job and striking in this case could seriously lose people their jobs as BA have to make savings to stay afloat.
Taking a 30% wage cut marks you as easy prey accept it and you'll be accepting reductions in benefits,more pay cuts, longer hours etc. etc. Employers as a general rule are not known for their benevolence (particularly large corporate employers)allow them to get you on your knees and you'll never stand again.....and as the old adage goes 'better to die on your feet than live on your knees'
yeah but in this case- 30% pay cut = have a job. things continue as is and get paid the full whack= BA goes to the wall and suddenly those jobs might not be there anymore.
simplistic but hey.
If anything sends B.A. to the wall I promise you it will not be the wages of cabin crew....I haven't seen any mention of directors,managers etc. taking pay cuts or would that be a step to far
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
If anything sends B.A. to the wall I promise you it will not be the wages of cabin crew....I haven't seen any mention of directors,managers etc. taking pay cuts or would that be a step to far

BA Humbug
bolt
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
If anything sends B.A. to the wall I promise you it will not be the wages of cabin crew....I haven't seen any mention of directors,managers etc. taking pay cuts or would that be a step to far

I'm not sure where the figure of 30% salary reduction comes from, from what I understand
BA wants three quarters of its crew to accept a pay rise of between 2 and 7 percent this year, which will be frozen next year, and for 3,000 staff to switch to part-time working, along with a reduction in onboard crewing levels from 15 to 14 on long-haul flights from London Heathrow, with senior cabin crew taking passenger-facing roles.
Willie Walsh has not taken his bonus for the past three years and he and other senior management took no salary for one month in July.....although I do accept that it's easier to do that when on £700k per annum rather than £25k.
Just been chatting to a friend of mine who is BA Cabin Crew at Heathrow.
His basic pay is £13k a year. With flight allowances etc that goes up to about £25k but only his basic is guaranteed. He is not new to the company. The figures of £40K etc being quoted are a bit of a misnomer - most people on those old contracts do not work full time because of rotas and hours etc. If my friend is forced to take the proposed cut down to his basic pay he will lose the flat he has just managed to move into (on a shared equity scheme) and at 35 years old will be back to renting a room from someone - or back with his folks.
They do appreciate that their going on strike impacts people but equally to make a point they have to strike when the maximum impact will be felt - as they don't want to have to strike more than once.
I can empathise with that.
Willie Walsh is due to get a rather huge payrise when the merger with Iberia goes through - it will make his current £700k per annum look paltry.
I can't empathise with that. wink
Quote by Max777
If anything sends B.A. to the wall I promise you it will not be the wages of cabin crew....I haven't seen any mention of directors,managers etc. taking pay cuts or would that be a step to far

I'm not sure where the figure of 30% salary reduction comes from, from what I understand
BA wants three quarters of its crew to accept a pay rise of between 2 and 7 percent this year, which will be frozen next year, and for 3,000 staff to switch to part-time working, along with a reduction in onboard crewing levels from 15 to 14 on long-haul flights from London Heathrow, with senior cabin crew taking passenger-facing roles.
Willie Walsh has not taken his bonus for the past three years and he and other senior management took no salary for one month in July.....although I do accept that it's easier to do that when on £700k per annum rather than £25k.
As I understand it changes to 'benefits' and working practices equate to an effective cut of 30% in wage in some cases, as with anything else of course the management and union versions will differ I have to say I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the management gesture ,as you say not so difficult when you don't have to worry about your mortgage
sorry to say that while workers in most industries are facing pay cuts and job losses, politicians remain on the gravy train and agree to give our money by the bucket load to banksters (too big to fail) who caused the economic crisis in the first place, who then scamper off with the loot in the form of outrageous bonuses, people on here blame workers and unions for trying to defend their living standards and jobs.
world production and activity, regardless of the speculative rise in world stock markets, with our tax money, HAS FALLEN 30%. that means 30% less air miles will be covered (aggregate) by the totality of airlines. that means 30% of airplanes will come off the road, 30% less cabin staff, 30% less pilots and airport staff, 30% less foriegn holidays and travel agents.......ad infinitum. you are facing the mother of all depressions and while all of you will suffer, black, green, pink, brown, christian, muslim, budist, hindu, agency worker, pole, asylum seeker, benefit cheat, slacker, bi, straight, gay, cross dresser, etc, people point the finger at each other and say, its all their fault. o leary and the rest of his multi million pound salaried/bonus board of directors who have failed to manage the commanding heights of the air transport industry would laugh their cocks off at some of the threads here. ho ho ho. merry xmas all. to the staff at b.a. i say...STAND FIRM !
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
If anything sends B.A. to the wall I promise you it will not be the wages of cabin crew....I haven't seen any mention of directors,managers etc. taking pay cuts or would that be a step to far

I'm not sure where the figure of 30% salary reduction comes from, from what I understand
BA wants three quarters of its crew to accept a pay rise of between 2 and 7 percent this year, which will be frozen next year, and for 3,000 staff to switch to part-time working, along with a reduction in onboard crewing levels from 15 to 14 on long-haul flights from London Heathrow, with senior cabin crew taking passenger-facing roles.
Willie Walsh has not taken his bonus for the past three years and he and other senior management took no salary for one month in July.....although I do accept that it's easier to do that when on £700k per annum rather than £25k.
As I understand it changes to 'benefits' and working practices equate to an effective cut of 30% in wage in some cases, as with anything else of course the management and union versions will differ I have to say I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the management gesture ,as you say not so difficult when you don't have to worry about your mortgage
Would Derek Simpson have given up 12 days of his renumeration package if the strike had gone aheadin line with his members? I think not and he doesn't have to worry about his mortgage either as on top of his salary of £97K he receives housing benefit of £38K and a conntribution of £24K towards his chauffeur driven car. There are "fat cats" on both sides.
The change in working practices at BA was to be for new employees, not existing staff.
It is the right of every worker to withdraw their labour, its all they have. Good luck to you all, all workers should stick together, good on UNITE,people are entitled to get decent wages,terms and conditions. It does not matter that virgin pay less! shame on them, as Richard Branson has no hardships!! I am sad to see so many right winged people on this site.
Quote by Carol66
It is the right of every worker to withdraw their labour, its all they have. Good luck to you all, all workers should stick together, good on UNITE,people are entitled to get decent wages,terms and conditions. It does not matter that virgin pay less! shame on them, as Richard Branson has no hardships!! I am sad to see so many right winged people on this site.

So swinging should be the preserve of left wingers then? dunno
Quote by Max777
If anything sends B.A. to the wall I promise you it will not be the wages of cabin crew....I haven't seen any mention of directors,managers etc. taking pay cuts or would that be a step to far

I'm not sure where the figure of 30% salary reduction comes from, from what I understand
BA wants three quarters of its crew to accept a pay rise of between 2 and 7 percent this year, which will be frozen next year, and for 3,000 staff to switch to part-time working, along with a reduction in onboard crewing levels from 15 to 14 on long-haul flights from London Heathrow, with senior cabin crew taking passenger-facing roles.
Willie Walsh has not taken his bonus for the past three years and he and other senior management took no salary for one month in July.....although I do accept that it's easier to do that when on £700k per annum rather than £25k.
As I understand it changes to 'benefits' and working practices equate to an effective cut of 30% in wage in some cases, as with anything else of course the management and union versions will differ I have to say I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the management gesture ,as you say not so difficult when you don't have to worry about your mortgage
Would Derek Simpson have given up 12 days of his renumeration package if the strike had gone aheadin line with his members? I think not and he doesn't have to worry about his mortgage either as on top of his salary of £97K he receives housing benefit of £38K and a conntribution of £24K towards his chauffeur driven car. There are "fat cats" on both sides.
The change in working practices at BA was to be for new employees, not existing staff.
I'm no apologist for the excess of union leaders their betrayal of their role has nothing to do with this and is for their members to sort out.
Why should new employees not receive the same employment package as anyone else? equal pay for equal work ...seems fair to me
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
If anything sends B.A. to the wall I promise you it will not be the wages of cabin crew....I haven't seen any mention of directors,managers etc. taking pay cuts or would that be a step to far

I'm not sure where the figure of 30% salary reduction comes from, from what I understand
BA wants three quarters of its crew to accept a pay rise of between 2 and 7 percent this year, which will be frozen next year, and for 3,000 staff to switch to part-time working, along with a reduction in onboard crewing levels from 15 to 14 on long-haul flights from London Heathrow, with senior cabin crew taking passenger-facing roles.
Willie Walsh has not taken his bonus for the past three years and he and other senior management took no salary for one month in July.....although I do accept that it's easier to do that when on £700k per annum rather than £25k.
As I understand it changes to 'benefits' and working practices equate to an effective cut of 30% in wage in some cases, as with anything else of course the management and union versions will differ I have to say I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the management gesture ,as you say not so difficult when you don't have to worry about your mortgage
Would Derek Simpson have given up 12 days of his renumeration package if the strike had gone aheadin line with his members? I think not and he doesn't have to worry about his mortgage either as on top of his salary of £97K he receives housing benefit of £38K and a conntribution of £24K towards his chauffeur driven car. There are "fat cats" on both sides.
The change in working practices at BA was to be for new employees, not existing staff.
I'm no apologist for the excess of union leaders their betrayal of their role has nothing to do with this and is for their members to sort out.
Why should new employees not receive the same employment package as anyone else? equal pay for equal work ...seems fair to me
It must have something to do with it Stagger, as the union leaders are the ones "leading" their members into strike action. Maybe they wouldn't be so eager for industrial action if they they lost salary too. I'm just countering your point of you being underwhelmed by BA management "gestures" by pointing out that the Union management don't even pretend to make such gestures.
So are you saying that BA can not address the problem of their cost base being too high ( their words, not mine) and therefore just sit back and watch whilst the company goes down the pan, resulting in everyone losing their jobs?
we are not solving much are we..............rolleyes
Quote by markz
we are not solving much are we..............rolleyes

are we supposed to? :roll: