Democracy

6 Oct 2012

Quote by flower
We do elect governments to speak on our behalf

I can't accept that nonsensical view.
We elect governments to make decisions on our behalf and in our name. I can accept that we elect representatives to collectively speak on our behalf in the parliamentary theatre, whatever form that takes.

6 Oct 2012

There will never be a referendum on the death penalty in this country. I believe that it is not a decision for individuals to make, but national Governments, and they have discussed this issue and voted on this issue and each time it has failed to get the votes needed to change the law.
The closest we will get is when people vote on line and when it reaches 100 .000 Parliament have to debate it. The last vote on capital punishment I have read was in 1998. It will never return and to suggest that the person on the street could get a chance to actually vote on such a huge issue is laughable.
What most people would rather see are proper sentencing for horrible crimes. Life should mean life in certain crimes and far tougher action by the courts. I would rather see that than the killing of someone especially with our justice system as it is.
Successive Governments have manifestos on which many people vote and yet after being elected a lot of those promises in that manifesto, get left behind. Should a political parties manifestos be legally binding as they are using that to attract voters.

6 Oct 2012

Quote by neilinleeds
I'm interested to know what would be considered about our society based on our prison service

That the good work done in the wake of the Strangeways Riots and the Woolf Report that turned the prison service on its head, forcing through long overdue changes to your typical regime has been undone to some extent by our predeliction for jailing so many for quite petty offences, frequently linked to substance abuse for terms of 3, 6 and 12 months where a community penalty and treatment order would be more effective long term. Addiction should be seen more as a health problem than a criminal problem, criminal behaviour being secondary to that addiction. Treat the addiction, treat the causes of crime at the same time. This is a no-brainer. A large transient flow of prisoners on sentences too short to allow for anything even approaching treatment and rehabilitation keeping the prison population at max capacity steals resources away from properly constructive engagement with prisoners serving longer sentences so the whole thing becomes merely an exercise in warehousing bodies.
I think prison officers generally do their best to ensure prison is as safe and humane as it can be in the circumstances but understand only too well it's largely an exercise in futility unless you can seek to address the criminal behaviours of the more serious offenders so they're fit for eventual release. The recidivism rates show that prison doesn't work, except to keep offenders off the streets for a time before kicking them back out in a worse situation than they were before they arrived at prison having only their wits and criminal talents to help them survive before being dragged back to gaol for new offences. It's a merry-go-round, complete waste of time. A more rational prison policy with properly constructive aims is definitely needed, and sooner rather than later. Lot of room for improvement, failure to make those improvememnts indicating we're not so civilised as we could be, and should want to be.
thanks for the reply neil im inclined to agree with a fair ammount of what you have written
as we're of to the southend social i`ll give you a proper reply tomorrow with added poor and general grammar flipa

6 Oct 2012

Quote by Ben_Minx
I think there are more important issues that could and should be decided by referendum.
I am not convinced that capital punishment achieves very much as evidenced by the USA.

I agree with Ben :thumbup:

6 Oct 2012

It's easy to knock democracy, but if your not happy don't vote here, vote at the booths. Democracy is in your hands!
Democracy is a wonderful thing but ultimately it has its failings just like any form of government. Just because a majority votes for it there is no reason to believe that the minority didn't.
For example the share of votes may be 50% but if only half the eligible people voted that actually works out at 1 in 4. Not 1 in 2 as you might think.
Democracy only works when the populace is prepared to make certain people capable of making decisions on there behalf. The big trouble is no party will ever make the decision to kill potential future votes!

7 Oct 2012

Quote by Lizaleanrob
I'm interested to know what would be considered about our society based on our prison service

That the good work done in the wake of the Strangeways Riots and the Woolf Report that turned the prison service on its head, forcing through long overdue changes to your typical regime has been undone to some extent by our predeliction for jailing so many for quite petty offences, frequently linked to substance abuse for terms of 3, 6 and 12 months where a community penalty and treatment order would be more effective long term. Addiction should be seen more as a health problem than a criminal problem, criminal behaviour being secondary to that addiction. Treat the addiction, treat the causes of crime at the same time. This is a no-brainer. A large transient flow of prisoners on sentences too short to allow for anything even approaching treatment and rehabilitation keeping the prison population at max capacity steals resources away from properly constructive engagement with prisoners serving longer sentences so the whole thing becomes merely an exercise in warehousing bodies.
I think prison officers generally do their best to ensure prison is as safe and humane as it can be in the circumstances but understand only too well it's largely an exercise in futility unless you can seek to address the criminal behaviours of the more serious offenders so they're fit for eventual release. The recidivism rates show that prison doesn't work, except to keep offenders off the streets for a time before kicking them back out in a worse situation than they were before they arrived at prison having only their wits and criminal talents to help them survive before being dragged back to gaol for new offences. It's a merry-go-round, complete waste of time. A more rational prison policy with properly constructive aims is definitely needed, and sooner rather than later. Lot of room for improvement, failure to make those improvememnts indicating we're not so civilised as we could be, and should want to be.
thanks for the reply neil im inclined to agree with a fair ammount of what you have written
as we're of to the southend social i`ll give you a proper reply tomorrow with added poor and general grammar flipa

well would you adam and eve it?
at last nights social we was talking to a couple who had both previously worked as prison wardens
the conversation did confirm my opinion that an unacceptable percentage of prisoners become institutionalised, they posses neither the social or professional skills needed to cope with life outside of prison,simply they just re-offend whilst on parole and go straight back to jail
the fact that prisoners now have an easier life inside has little if nothing to do with their own quality of life,nor is it a human rights issue,its just down to the fact there is less chance of a riot if inmates are allowed colour tv ,playstation etc etc than if they did not have these items
The most comical yet most disturbing fact is, it is now considered that you will or would receive and be better cared for in a prison than you would in a retirement home and hey their not going to take your house to pay for it :doh:
my thoughts are prison is only a deterrent for the likes of me and you and all the the people who play by the rules it is however absolutely no deterrent for criminals,just removing someones liberty is no longer enough!!
i don't know what the answer is? but brushing the prisons and the prisoners a side with some more goodies and rights is never gonna work in 100 million years nor is education unless you wanna make smarter criminals
i think as a society we are on the brink of being consumed by our personal agenda's with little or no regard for others
that's what the state of our prisons is telling me about us

7 Oct 2012

:thumbup:I think that's a very fair view rob.

7 Oct 2012

Quote by Lizaleanrob
i don't know what the answer is?

:rascal::rascal:

7 Oct 2012

Hmm, death by paintball firing squad :color:

9 Oct 2012

the fact that prisoners now have an easier life inside has little if nothing to do with their own quality of life,nor is it a human rights issue,its just down to the fact there is less chance of a riot if inmates are allowed colour tv ,playstation etc etc than if they did not have these items

This really bears repeating Rob, again and again and again for the benefit of those who don't get it thinking prison's gone soft cos it's bang on the money. I forget if it was here or elsewhere but I've made this argument before: Kettles, TVs, Playstations in cells are not there to make a prisoner's life all cushty chaver. They're management tools. Pacifiers. If you're going to bang people up two at a time in 12x8" boxes for 23 hours a day, day in, day out, some of them withdrawing from drug habits, or mentally disturbed in some way, or with a history of violence you better have something available to keep them entertained. A few books a week from the prison library as was pre-2000 for those who can actually read just ain't gonna cut it. I've not checked the figures here, I don't think I need to, cos I'm pretty sure a quick and dirty comparison of the incidence of prison riots the last 11 or 12 years with that of the previous coupla decades would more than demonstrate their value.

10 Oct 2012

Quote by GnV
"Let him have it, Chris"
Need I say more?

:thumbup:
This just about sums up my thoughts also
A trully shamefull moment in british justice