Following on from the discussions in the hero's thread.
This is now the faith schools discussion.
Please stay on topic.
Sex God
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Faith schools
As a " non believer ", I think there should be no faith schools at all. That goes for any religion.
There are plenty of opportunities to practise your faith, away from a school enviroment.
Schools should be exactly that.....a school. Not a place to push religion and that belief. Of course all religions should be taught in schools, just not one chosen one.
I will not go into any particular religion but.....there are some that are hell bent on just promoting their own ways and beliefs. That does nothing at all for harmonious intigration.
Until people learn and accept intigration there will always be problems, and on that basis I think all faith schools should not exist.
I will wait for the knockers.
There are plenty of opportunities to practise your faith, away from a school enviroment.
Schools should be exactly that.....a school. Not a place to push religion and that belief. Of course all religions should be taught in schools, just not one chosen one.
I will not go into any particular religion but.....there are some that are hell bent on just promoting their own ways and beliefs. That does nothing at all for harmonious intigration.
Until people learn and accept intigration there will always be problems, and on that basis I think all faith schools should not exist.
I will wait for the knockers.
Sex God
We had religious education at high school. Our teacher was funny, Welsh and hilarious. He taught us about all religions. I'm not sure I learned a lot but religion didn't float my boat. It still doesn't.
I'm agnostic. :mrgreen:
I don't think there's any need to have specifically religious schools although there was a catholic school when I grew up. From what I remember the boys there didn't practice their religion, nor did the girls!
I'm agnostic. :mrgreen:
I don't think there's any need to have specifically religious schools although there was a catholic school when I grew up. From what I remember the boys there didn't practice their religion, nor did the girls!
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
As a " non believer ", I think there should be no faith schools at all. That goes for any religion.
There are plenty of opportunities to practise your faith, away from a school enviroment.
Schools should be exactly that.....a school. Not a place to push religion and that belief. Of course all religions should be taught in schools, just not one chosen one.
I will not go into any particular religion but.....there are some that are hell bent on just promoting their own ways and beliefs. That does nothing at all for harmonious intigration.
Until people learn and accept intigration there will always be problems, and on that basis I think all faith schools should not exist.
I will wait for the knockers.
just 2 things....
1) that means as well as islamic and jewish schools going... that also means Catholic and Church of England schools as well.... that would only be fair.....
2)a lot of parents push their children towards "certain" schools..... so shouldn't a lot of the blame be placed at there door?
Quote by fabio
As a " non believer ", I think there should be no faith schools at all. That goes for any religion.
There are plenty of opportunities to practise your faith, away from a school enviroment.
Schools should be exactly that.....a school. Not a place to push religion and that belief. Of course all religions should be taught in schools, just not one chosen one.
I will not go into any particular religion but.....there are some that are hell bent on just promoting their own ways and beliefs. That does nothing at all for harmonious intigration.
Until people learn and accept intigration there will always be problems, and on that basis I think all faith schools should not exist.
I will wait for the knockers.
just 2 things....
1) that means as well as islamic and jewish schools going... that also means Catholic and Church of England schools as well.... that would only be fair.....
2)a lot of parents push their children towards "certain" schools..... so shouldn't a lot of the blame be placed at there door?
Your first point is yes, I mean all schools, not just the ones you highlighted upon.
Your second point....of course parents make the choice. I cannot imagine many kids saying " Oh Mummy I want to go to that nice Catholic school ".
I know of parents who reckon they are Catholic, but have not been to church for years and years but....they still want to send their kids to one. Hypocrisy I would call that.
Quote by kentswingers777
As a " non believer ", I think there should be no faith schools at all. That goes for any religion.
There are plenty of opportunities to practise your faith, away from a school enviroment.
Schools should be exactly that.....a school. Not a place to push religion and that belief. Of course all religions should be taught in schools, just not one chosen one.
I will not go into any particular religion but.....there are some that are hell bent on just promoting their own ways and beliefs. That does nothing at all for harmonious intigration.
Until people learn and accept intigration there will always be problems, and on that basis I think all faith schools should not exist.
I will wait for the knockers.
just 2 things....
1) that means as well as islamic and jewish schools going... that also means Catholic and Church of England schools as well.... that would only be fair.....
2)a lot of parents push their children towards "certain" schools..... so shouldn't a lot of the blame be placed at there door?
Your first point is yes, I mean all schools, not just the ones you highlighted upon.
Your second point....of course parents make the choice. I cannot imagine many kids saying " Oh Mummy I want to go to that nice Catholic school ".
I know of parents who reckon they are Catholic, but have not been to church for years and years but....they still want to send their kids to one. Hypocrisy I would call that.
I ain't Catholic but send mine to a Catholic school. It is because it is the best school in the area. As a parent I will send my kids to the best school I can, irrespective of what faith or non-faith is being taught there. I want them to have the best opportunity as I can get for them.
Hypocrisy? Nope.....being a good dad.
Dave_Notts
Someone I know sent their kids to Catholic school because "they have a beer tent at the school fête" 
I agree that faith doesn't make much difference if it's a good school, as long as they present religion in a well balanced way. My daughter goes to a C of E school, but they also study other relgions in a comparitve way.
I agree that faith doesn't make much difference if it's a good school, as long as they present religion in a well balanced way. My daughter goes to a C of E school, but they also study other relgions in a comparitve way.
Quote by Dave__Notts
As a " non believer ", I think there should be no faith schools at all. That goes for any religion.
There are plenty of opportunities to practise your faith, away from a school enviroment.
Schools should be exactly that.....a school. Not a place to push religion and that belief. Of course all religions should be taught in schools, just not one chosen one.
I will not go into any particular religion but.....there are some that are hell bent on just promoting their own ways and beliefs. That does nothing at all for harmonious intigration.
Until people learn and accept intigration there will always be problems, and on that basis I think all faith schools should not exist.
I will wait for the knockers.
just 2 things....
1) that means as well as islamic and jewish schools going... that also means Catholic and Church of England schools as well.... that would only be fair.....
2)a lot of parents push their children towards "certain" schools..... so shouldn't a lot of the blame be placed at there door?
Your first point is yes, I mean all schools, not just the ones you highlighted upon.
Your second point....of course parents make the choice. I cannot imagine many kids saying " Oh Mummy I want to go to that nice Catholic school ".
I know of parents who reckon they are Catholic, but have not been to church for years and years but....they still want to send their kids to one. Hypocrisy I would call that.
I ain't Catholic but send mine to a Catholic school. It is because it is the best school in the area. As a parent I will send my kids to the best school I can, irrespective of what faith or non-faith is being taught there. I want them to have the best opportunity as I can get for them.
Hypocrisy? Nope.....being a good dad.
Dave_Notts
It may well be " being a good Dad " but....it is still hypocrisy. To send ones kids to a faith school purely based on the fact it is a good school, makes a total mockery of the system, and the religious theme.
Good luck to you if it works for you and others but.....that does not make the current system right.
Another reason why faith schools should not exist.
I would have thought ( wrongly obviously ) that to gain entry into a Catholic school, one would have had to be Catholic and attended church regulary. If I wanted to get married in a church a lot of vicars or priests would not look too kindly, if I had never been inside that church.
Does it all make some kind of laughable mockery of the whole religious thing?
If the system allows it and you can get away with it then great but....it just does not sit too well with me, when people bleat on about religion. People use it when it suits them too, and the rest of the time they ignore it.
A bit like the people who never ever go to church yet funnily enough, suddenly want to get their kids christened, and on that occasion are more then happy to pray to God and sing all the hymns. Hypocrosy indeedy.
I went to 2 "faith schools".. 5 years in the jewish school in firenze and 4 years in a catholic one in milano..
the first one was because my mum did not want me to loose the "connection" with the whole "jewish thing"... (as we are not observant in the family, and the family is mixed to begin with)
the catholic school was because it was the best one in the area and 5 blocks away from home.
neither of my parents insisted on me believing anything or attending more than the strictly required minimum estabilished by the schools..
I strongly believe that "indoctrination/brainwashing" simply cannot happen in the one/two weekly hours of schooling in religious things you get at school.
it's all in the family if they want to perservere and instill certain values tennants or even ideas in their offspring..a religious school helps, yes..but the real difference is made at home.
you can go to all the jewish focus groups, schools, lessons you want..but if at home you get served ham sandwiches and you don't go to the sinagogue on saturdays..it's just not going to produce a fundamentalist..
of course I have no experience of islamic schools and their structure and level of "religious education"..or indeed english schools.. but I'm pretty sure that without the family being involved and very strict...it's just not going to happne.
so...my personal view is that religious schools are not to blame for the propagation of religious beliefs or narrowmindedness in that department(if they are good schools and teach the "regular subjects" on levels comparable to non religious schools, that is)
in fact, I feel enriched by the knowledge of something less menial than 2+2=4.
and no, I don't see myself as a believer
the first one was because my mum did not want me to loose the "connection" with the whole "jewish thing"... (as we are not observant in the family, and the family is mixed to begin with)
the catholic school was because it was the best one in the area and 5 blocks away from home.
neither of my parents insisted on me believing anything or attending more than the strictly required minimum estabilished by the schools..
I strongly believe that "indoctrination/brainwashing" simply cannot happen in the one/two weekly hours of schooling in religious things you get at school.
it's all in the family if they want to perservere and instill certain values tennants or even ideas in their offspring..a religious school helps, yes..but the real difference is made at home.
you can go to all the jewish focus groups, schools, lessons you want..but if at home you get served ham sandwiches and you don't go to the sinagogue on saturdays..it's just not going to produce a fundamentalist..
of course I have no experience of islamic schools and their structure and level of "religious education"..or indeed english schools.. but I'm pretty sure that without the family being involved and very strict...it's just not going to happne.
so...my personal view is that religious schools are not to blame for the propagation of religious beliefs or narrowmindedness in that department(if they are good schools and teach the "regular subjects" on levels comparable to non religious schools, that is)
in fact, I feel enriched by the knowledge of something less menial than 2+2=4.
and no, I don't see myself as a believer
Quote by kentswingers777
As a " non believer ", I think there should be no faith schools at all. That goes for any religion.
There are plenty of opportunities to practise your faith, away from a school enviroment.
Schools should be exactly that.....a school. Not a place to push religion and that belief. Of course all religions should be taught in schools, just not one chosen one.
I will not go into any particular religion but.....there are some that are hell bent on just promoting their own ways and beliefs. That does nothing at all for harmonious intigration.
Until people learn and accept intigration there will always be problems, and on that basis I think all faith schools should not exist.
I will wait for the knockers.
just 2 things....
1) that means as well as islamic and jewish schools going... that also means Catholic and Church of England schools as well.... that would only be fair.....
2)a lot of parents push their children towards "certain" schools..... so shouldn't a lot of the blame be placed at there door?
Your first point is yes, I mean all schools, not just the ones you highlighted upon.
Your second point....of course parents make the choice. I cannot imagine many kids saying " Oh Mummy I want to go to that nice Catholic school ".
I know of parents who reckon they are Catholic, but have not been to church for years and years but....they still want to send their kids to one. Hypocrisy I would call that.
I asked to go to the nice Catholic school as did my friends .... why ? because it was a good school, when we went to the open evenings it wasnt as shabby and rough looking as the others. We knew if we went there we would get a better education and would be with people we knew, both friends from school and from similar backgrounds.
I loved and enjoyed my single sex very Catholic education, why becuase I was in a school that had children in the school that wanted to be there and that whos parents made a concious decision to send them there not just the local school - the school for the record has consistantly over the past 20 yrs been held in the top 3 of non grammer/private shcool in the edcation authority.
We learnt about our faith amongst the others and no I dont feel I missed out on not mixing with others (you had to be Catholic and regular church goer to get in), you have the rest of your life to mix and meet people from other faiths, creeds, colours, my time at school was best spent (for me) learning in an environment that I was comfortable in.
Quote by kentswingers777
As a " non believer ", I think there should be no faith schools at all. That goes for any religion.
There are plenty of opportunities to practise your faith, away from a school enviroment.
Schools should be exactly that.....a school. Not a place to push religion and that belief. Of course all religions should be taught in schools, just not one chosen one.
I will not go into any particular religion but.....there are some that are hell bent on just promoting their own ways and beliefs. That does nothing at all for harmonious intigration.
Until people learn and accept intigration there will always be problems, and on that basis I think all faith schools should not exist.
I will wait for the knockers.
just 2 things....
1) that means as well as islamic and jewish schools going... that also means Catholic and Church of England schools as well.... that would only be fair.....
2)a lot of parents push their children towards "certain" schools..... so shouldn't a lot of the blame be placed at there door?
Your first point is yes, I mean all schools, not just the ones you highlighted upon.
Your second point....of course parents make the choice. I cannot imagine many kids saying " Oh Mummy I want to go to that nice Catholic school ".
I know of parents who reckon they are Catholic, but have not been to church for years and years but....they still want to send their kids to one. Hypocrisy I would call that.
I ain't Catholic but send mine to a Catholic school. It is because it is the best school in the area. As a parent I will send my kids to the best school I can, irrespective of what faith or non-faith is being taught there. I want them to have the best opportunity as I can get for them.
Hypocrisy? Nope.....being a good dad.
Dave_Notts
It may well be " being a good Dad " but....it is still hypocrisy. To send ones kids to a faith school purely based on the fact it is a good school, makes a total mockery of the system, and the religious theme.
Good luck to you if it works for you and others but.....that does not make the current system right.
Another reason why faith schools should not exist.
I would have thought ( wrongly obviously ) that to gain entry into a Catholic school, one would have had to be Catholic and attended church regulary. If I wanted to get married in a church a lot of vicars or priests would not look too kindly, if I had never been inside that church.
Does it all make some kind of laughable mockery of the whole religious thing?
If the system allows it and you can get away with it then great but....it just does not sit too well with me, when people bleat on about religion. People use it when it suits them too, and the rest of the time they ignore it.
A bit like the people who never ever go to church yet funnily enough, suddenly want to get their kids christened, and on that occasion are more then happy to pray to God and sing all the hymns. Hypocrosy indeedy.
Once you have a system then it is always open to abuse. This is what I have done to allow my child to enter the best school in the area. I don't see it as hypocrisy.........because I wouldn't want my children to suffer just for my "faith"......which is none. My daughter wants to become Catholic, I have told her she can decide when she is older.
Dave_Notts
Quote by kentswingers777
It may well be " being a good Dad " but....it is still hypocrisy. To send ones kids to a faith school purely based on the fact it is a good school, makes a total mockery of the system, and the religious theme.
Good luck to you if it works for you and others but.....that does not make the current system right.
While faith schools continue to take money from the education budget then they should be open to anyone, as all taxpayers contribute to their funding. If they choose to become completely independant financially then they have the right to be selective.
I don't want any of my taxes to be used to brainwash children.
Sex God
I agree with Res's post in the Hero's thread with regard to this issue.
I feel that we should'nt have faith schools as it does lead to parents "having" to be hypocritical to get their children taught in the best school that they are able to.
Take a "good" catholic school for instance and then your local comprehensive. That catholic school is not necessarily better because it is "Catholic" it's probably better because classes and indeed the whole school are smaller.
However completely contradicting that, I was taught in the (very large) local comprehensive and a friend was taught in a (small) catholic school not far away...I have been fairly succesful in life ie/ happy marriage, long standing career etc, she is in prison serving a life sentence. I know thats an extreme example but I'm trying to get across that it's not the "religion" that makes the school good or bad it's the size, committment of the teachers/staff, the catchment area it is in and so on.
I also feel that children should be taught to learn and make up their own minds. RE for instance should consist of many beliefs and inspire the child to find out more later if they want to rather than having any one religion packaged up and thrown down their throats as the "right" thing.
It's fairly easy to start up a school for anyone with money, business acumen and the enthusiasm. The rules are not that stringent as I discovered along the journey of looking into home schooling and other alternatives for my daughter. It's a minefield and parents are supposed to be responsible for getting their children the best education they can. In my view religion and the process of getting your child the best education are two completely seperate issues.
I feel that we should'nt have faith schools as it does lead to parents "having" to be hypocritical to get their children taught in the best school that they are able to.
Take a "good" catholic school for instance and then your local comprehensive. That catholic school is not necessarily better because it is "Catholic" it's probably better because classes and indeed the whole school are smaller.
However completely contradicting that, I was taught in the (very large) local comprehensive and a friend was taught in a (small) catholic school not far away...I have been fairly succesful in life ie/ happy marriage, long standing career etc, she is in prison serving a life sentence. I know thats an extreme example but I'm trying to get across that it's not the "religion" that makes the school good or bad it's the size, committment of the teachers/staff, the catchment area it is in and so on.
I also feel that children should be taught to learn and make up their own minds. RE for instance should consist of many beliefs and inspire the child to find out more later if they want to rather than having any one religion packaged up and thrown down their throats as the "right" thing.
It's fairly easy to start up a school for anyone with money, business acumen and the enthusiasm. The rules are not that stringent as I discovered along the journey of looking into home schooling and other alternatives for my daughter. It's a minefield and parents are supposed to be responsible for getting their children the best education they can. In my view religion and the process of getting your child the best education are two completely seperate issues.
Sexlightened
Children's minds should not be indoctrinated with any form of religion, nor should taxpayers money be used to fund faith schools, prison, army or hospital chaplains, or to repair old churches under the guise of "ancient buildings".
Sex God
I have no objection to faith schools other than the fact that they are on the whole government funded...the government has a duty to educate not indoctrinate...remove government funding and I have no problem with them.
P.S. I would if given the opportunity close all private schools (unless of course they use the same admission criteria as all other schools and stopped taking fees)
P.S. I would if given the opportunity close all private schools (unless of course they use the same admission criteria as all other schools and stopped taking fees)
Sex God
Makes me laugh how people who claim to be liberal want to ban everything that doesn't fall directly within their own belief system.
LG
LG
I went to a primary C of E faith school plus a comprehensive, I personally prefer the faith school, why because they instilled a good feeling of community, manners and appreciation of others.
O yeah and the vicar came once a week and held assembly.
Some people seem to think all faith schools brainwash and shove religion down your throat, not all do.
I dont go to church but keep an open view, I choose to send my children to a faith school, I was honest before hand and told the school I was non practicing.
I wanted a faith for my children to have the chance to choose for themsleves as I had, none of my children are showing signs of following but loved their school and really enjoyed the Philosophy classes.
I dont see it as hypocrisy, but as not denying my children to choose for themselves.
O yeah and the vicar came once a week and held assembly.
Some people seem to think all faith schools brainwash and shove religion down your throat, not all do.
I dont go to church but keep an open view, I choose to send my children to a faith school, I was honest before hand and told the school I was non practicing.
I wanted a faith for my children to have the chance to choose for themsleves as I had, none of my children are showing signs of following but loved their school and really enjoyed the Philosophy classes.
I dont see it as hypocrisy, but as not denying my children to choose for themselves.
Sex God
"I wanted a faith for my children to have the chance to choose for themselves?"
Minxy, that is entirely contradictory. You're children didn't choose for themselves. You chose for them.
You seem to be saying, I went to a faith school and it was great because I didn't have to show any faith in the faith of the school. Which begs the question, why have it in the first place?
The laudable qualities you mentioned of community, manners and appreciation of others can be fostered and nurtured within children without over-reliance on ANY religious book.
The entire rationale of faith schools is that they are based upon a single faith that is accepted as their choice. It may not be "shoved down your throat" in terms of being fanatically adhered to, however the entire pretext of the school is that it is based on faith, so it will provide an education in line with that faith, which makes it mutually exclusive and entirely non-indicative of the multi-cultural society we are supposed to be educating children to take part in.
As I said in another thread, religion has a lot to offer and I fully support educating children about all kinds of religion and belief systems so that in time they can make their own choices as to what to believe in, when they are of an age to make that decision for themselves.
I don't think it is right that adults can arbitrarily decide what religion a child shall follow based on their own beliefs, or worse still, because "it's a good school".
Religion should be part of a free and open education, not education part of (and dependent upon) religion.
Minxy, that is entirely contradictory. You're children didn't choose for themselves. You chose for them.
You seem to be saying, I went to a faith school and it was great because I didn't have to show any faith in the faith of the school. Which begs the question, why have it in the first place?
The laudable qualities you mentioned of community, manners and appreciation of others can be fostered and nurtured within children without over-reliance on ANY religious book.
The entire rationale of faith schools is that they are based upon a single faith that is accepted as their choice. It may not be "shoved down your throat" in terms of being fanatically adhered to, however the entire pretext of the school is that it is based on faith, so it will provide an education in line with that faith, which makes it mutually exclusive and entirely non-indicative of the multi-cultural society we are supposed to be educating children to take part in.
As I said in another thread, religion has a lot to offer and I fully support educating children about all kinds of religion and belief systems so that in time they can make their own choices as to what to believe in, when they are of an age to make that decision for themselves.
I don't think it is right that adults can arbitrarily decide what religion a child shall follow based on their own beliefs, or worse still, because "it's a good school".
Religion should be part of a free and open education, not education part of (and dependent upon) religion.
Sex God
Don't know if it was aimed at me but ......the last thing I claim to be is liberal...I'm a marxist ffs we're all monsters
Quote by Resonance
"I wanted a faith for my children to have the chance to choose for themselves?"
Minxy, that is entirely contradictory. You're children didn't choose for themselves. You chose for them.
You seem to be saying, I went to a faith school and it was great because I didn't have to show any faith in the faith of the school. Which begs the question, why have it in the first place?
The laudable qualities you mentioned of community, manners and appreciation of others can be fostered and nurtured within children without over-reliance on ANY religious book.
The entire rationale of faith schools is that they are based upon a single faith that is accepted as their choice. It may not be "shoved down your throat" in terms of being fanatically adhered to, however the entire pretext of the school is that it is based on faith, so it will provide an education in line with that faith, which makes it mutually exclusive and entirely non-indicative of the multi-cultural society we are supposed to be educating children to take part in.
As I said in another thread, religion has a lot to offer and I fully support educating children about all kinds of religion and belief systems so that in time they can make their own choices as to what to believe in, when they are of an age to make that decision for themselves.
I don't think it is right that adults can arbitrarily decide what religion a child shall follow based on their own beliefs, or worse still, because "it's a good school".
Religion should be part of a free and open education, not education part of (and dependent upon) religion.
Res I know what you are saying and can see your point, I would like to just say their school taught all faiths, which was something I was unable to give the basic understanding of for my children.
I knew the school covered these areas they had a balanced view and Philosophy was taught too. Which helped in teaching them to always question and keep an open mind.
I was pretty pleased that two out of three children of mine at aged 11 said if they had to choose a religion it would be Buddhism a lot of child have no idea what faiths are out there and the meaning and the harm they can cause too.
When I asked why they said it is more about understanding and accepting your inner self and a way of life.
So I believed to send them to the school I did was best for my children, I don’t believe in any religion but I still think its best to know a little about all than to be completely ignorant about them all. After all they are here and not likely to go away.
So we thought better for understanding a little than to learnt it off the street so to speak.
Sex God
Quote by Theladyisaminx
"I wanted a faith for my children to have the chance to choose for themselves?"
Minxy, that is entirely contradictory. You're children didn't choose for themselves. You chose for them.
You seem to be saying, I went to a faith school and it was great because I didn't have to show any faith in the faith of the school. Which begs the question, why have it in the first place?
The laudable qualities you mentioned of community, manners and appreciation of others can be fostered and nurtured within children without over-reliance on ANY religious book.
The entire rationale of faith schools is that they are based upon a single faith that is accepted as their choice. It may not be "shoved down your throat" in terms of being fanatically adhered to, however the entire pretext of the school is that it is based on faith, so it will provide an education in line with that faith, which makes it mutually exclusive and entirely non-indicative of the multi-cultural society we are supposed to be educating children to take part in.
As I said in another thread, religion has a lot to offer and I fully support educating children about all kinds of religion and belief systems so that in time they can make their own choices as to what to believe in, when they are of an age to make that decision for themselves.
I don't think it is right that adults can arbitrarily decide what religion a child shall follow based on their own beliefs, or worse still, because "it's a good school".
Religion should be part of a free and open education, not education part of (and dependent upon) religion.
Res I know what you are saying and can see your point, I would like to just say their school taught all faiths, which was something I was unable to give the basic understanding of for my children.
I knew the school covered these areas they had a balanced view and Philosophy was taught too. Which helped in teaching them to always question and keep an open mind.
I was pretty pleased that two out of three children of mine at aged 11 said if they had to choose a religion it would be Buddhism a lot of child have no idea what faiths are out there and the meaning and the harm they can cause too.
When I asked why they said it is more about understanding and accepting your inner self and a way of life.
So I believed to send them to the school I did was best for my children, I don’t believe in any religion but I still think its best to know a little about all than to be completely ignorant about them all. After all they are here and not likely to go away.
So we thought better for understanding a little than to learnt it off the street so to speak.
I think we have muddled up the idea of education with faith here Minxy and perhaps we have a different idea of what a "faith" school is and does.
The fact your children came out with well-rounded opinions on the subject to me is a by-product of good education. This has nothing to do with the faith of the school. More to do with their approach to religious education. Indeed many "faith" schools (by my definition) would be furious if children came in as catholic, islamist, buddhist etc and came out atheist, greek orthodox or jewish. Indeed you could be devils advocate and argue if a C of E school is producing children not interested in their religion, or maintaining that they want to be buddhist, then they are failing their faith. (I don't believe that for a moment, but some religious leaders out there will do).
We've both agreed on the fact that issues on religion should be taught. I have never argued otherwise if you check my posts. I argue that they shouldn't be preached.
The difference being, no prayers, no pompous hymns about going to Jerusalem to kick the arse of non-Christians. Religion stays in the classroom and is taught, not preached. I have absolutely no problem with that. I also have no problem with children following up their beliefs out of school hours, or in an after school club. I believe you should educate children about religion, not indoctrinate them into one.
There are plenty of songs out there that are not denomination specific that kids enjoy singing. You can still offer thanks and hope about the good, great, bad and evil. School life won't be changed other than the context shifted away from what makes us different, to what makes us the same.
I am not saying this doesn't happen. At a great many schools there is a much broader taught religious based curriculum. But this is often set against the fact that the school is denominational and therefore one view, Islam, C of E, Catholic etc is always pushed to the fore. It is that I disagree with. That and the fact churches still hold far too much power within many schools. Even to the point where candidates for jobs are forced to attend a specific church, believe a certain religious dogma, otherwise they will be disregarded for the post.
Now in any other terms, that is discrimination. So lets see how this works. For catholic schools, Hitler would have been welcomed, but Gandhi and Martin Luther King not. I'm not doing down Catholics (you can do the same for any religion in both positive and negative terms), I am just against what are unprovable personal belief systems being a strong basis for a judgement on whether a person is fit and able to do a specific job and become part of a community. I'd argue we need Islamic teachers in Christian schools and vice versa. Indeed we need all faiths represented within schools ideally. It helps break down the boundaries and stops the propagation of lies and fear that certain groups in this country love to pander to. I am also against faith being used to divide communities, to promote the have's against the have nots, to foster secularity and insularity against the wider community. This is what happens when you bring in boundaries based on faith and decide to preach instead of teach. It's the breeding ground for fear, it is the first step to indoctrination and increases the divide within a community. It makes people more malleable and easier to rally against a cause. At it's worst it creates a mentality of it is us against them. It may have good exam results, but what is the overall cost to the wider community and country as a whole?
Keep religion in school and present a balanced educative view of the subject. It is SORELY needed. Get preaching out and back into the place of worship where people can choose to attend or not. Allow children to make their own informed choices. There is no such thing as a young Catholic, Jewish or Christian child. There are children born to Catholic, Jewish or Christian parents. A child should no more have their religion selected for them, than be told they are to be gay or straight, how many children to have and what job to do when they finally leave school.
Sexlightened
Those who proclaim the supposed virtues of the various faith schools, whether christian,islam etc, including NuLabour, would do well to remember that both Gerry Adams of Sinn Feinn and Paisley have said that their respective denominational schools contributed to the sectarianism that plagues NI society.
Quote by Riotandantony
Those who proclaim the supposed virtues of the various faith schools, whether christian,islam etc, including NuLabour, would do well to remember that both Gerry Adams of Sinn Feinn and Paisley have said that their respective denominational schools contributed to the sectarianism that plagues NI society.
The same thing could be said in Scotland.
Religion only causes to divide people. The hatred between Celtic and Rangers north of the border, is unbelievable.
All in the name of religion.
I think all schools should teach religion but.....all religions. Also I feel that faith schools are biased and encourage their own beliefs, which is fine but look at Scotland and Ireland for good reasons why south of the border they should not be here.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
Blah blah yeah yeah sort of stuff.
I think all schools should teach religion but<<<Asks why.....all religions. Also I feel that faith schools are biased and encourage their own beliefs, which is fine but look at Scotland and Ireland for good reasons why south of the border they should not be here.
Sexlightened
Quote by kentswingers777
Those who proclaim the supposed virtues of the various faith schools, whether christian,islam etc, including NuLabour, would do well to remember that both Gerry Adams of Sinn Feinn and Paisley have said that their respective denominational schools contributed to the sectarianism that plagues NI society.
The same thing could be said in Scotland.
Religion only causes to divide people. The hatred between Celtic and Rangers north of the border, is unbelievable.
All in the name of religion.
You're telling me ! Much of Scottish society, especially here in the Highlands, is caught between the twin bigotrys of catholicism and the Free Presbetyrians (called the "wee frees" up here).
Behind the scenes they still have considerable sway in local politics, ensuring their own get council posts etc.
Relatively recently, the Free Church ministers would spy on couples leaving pubs and follow them home, if they spent the night with each other and were unmarried, the women would be denounced as every sort of low life whore from the pulpit the following Sunday.
One woman I know of from the west coast used to be invited to her village "do" every year, then one year she was'nt, this puzzled her so she made enquiries, and it eventually got back to her that the good burghers of the area had seen her wearing jeans that were too tight and thus decided she was not the sort of woman they wanted around !
The sooner this shower are consigned to the dustbin of human history - the better.
I think all schools should teach religion but.....all religions. Also I feel that faith schools are biased and encourage their own beliefs, which is fine but look at Scotland and Ireland for good reasons why south of the border they should not be here.
Sexlightened
ps ; for some reason the qoutes got mixed up in the above post ?! I don't think religeon should be taught in schools etc !
Quote by Riotandantony
ps ; for some reason the qoutes got mixed up in the above post ?! I don't think religeon should be taught in schools etc !
Well I am not religious in any way but...the values it instills is a good thing.
The ten commandments is a good pointer.
All I would say is yes I believe ALL religions should be taught in schools, as it is a fundamental lesson to learn about others faiths.
RE or as the lefties now call it
....beliefs and values :shock:, is one of the lessons you cannot drop in school.I believe that a faith school will indocrinate kids into that line of religion, whereby other schools will have an unbiased view, and teach kids all they should do.
From someboday whose middle name is athiest I still think kids should be taught it, and like many things in life, let them decide when the time is right whether or not they want to follow a path of believing or give them an unbiased view and not a brainwashing.
