That is what I AM trying to understand.
People with this disability seem to show levels of it.
Now the question is did this guy know what he was doing, and how serious it was. I do not think myself or anyone else here can be the judge of that one.
Only medical doctors and the courts will decide, but surely he has a case to answer?
I understand what Soul is saying as she can speak from first hand experiences, but she does not know the level of this guys disability, no more than I do.
Nobody here has answered the easy question as to why OUR Home Secretary did not stop the extradition. He obviously thinks this guy has a case to answer too.
Only the Doctors can decide IF he knew what he was doing and the implications of it. I do not know nor does anyone else here, each case is different to the next and that is why I wanted to know IF there were different levels of this disability.
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Gary Mkinnon - Harmless hacker or threat to world security?
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Sexpert
Kenty
My view on the answer to your question is this.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that what he did was ok, just a bit of a laugh, no harm done - clearly there is a case to answer, and the courts, suitably informed by appropriate medical testimony, should determine his degree of culpability, and thus what ensuing actions would be fair and proportionate.
(though I am alive to, and have sympathy with, the argument that he actually did them a favour, without causing world war 3, trashing any data or corrupting any systems - their security chiefs should be ashamed of themselves)
If the situation were reversed, the USA would no way allow one of their citizens to be deported to face trial here, arguing that they would try them in the US as the offence was committed there.
Our Home Secretary's view of what constitutes reciprocity in our supposed "special relationship" with the US, seems to be, to bend over and hold on to his ankles
My view on the answer to your question is this.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that what he did was ok, just a bit of a laugh, no harm done - clearly there is a case to answer, and the courts, suitably informed by appropriate medical testimony, should determine his degree of culpability, and thus what ensuing actions would be fair and proportionate.
(though I am alive to, and have sympathy with, the argument that he actually did them a favour, without causing world war 3, trashing any data or corrupting any systems - their security chiefs should be ashamed of themselves)
If the situation were reversed, the USA would no way allow one of their citizens to be deported to face trial here, arguing that they would try them in the US as the offence was committed there.
Our Home Secretary's view of what constitutes reciprocity in our supposed "special relationship" with the US, seems to be, to bend over and hold on to his ankles
Quote by kentswingers777
That is what I AM trying to understand.
People with this disability seem to show levels of it.
Now the question is did this guy know what he was doing, and how serious it was. I do not think myself or anyone else here can be the judge of that one.
Only medical doctors and the courts will decide, but surely he has a case to answer?
I understand what Soul is saying as she can speak from first hand experiences, but she does not know the level of this guys disability, no more than I do.
Nobody here has answered the easy question as to why OUR Home Secretary did not stop the extradition. He obviously thinks this guy has a case to answer too.
Only the Doctors can decide IF he knew what he was doing and the implications of it. I do not know nor does anyone else here, each case is different to the next and that is why I wanted to know IF there were different levels of this disability.
It doesnt matter what level he has its the fact that Shireen keeps saying it "The hardest thing is getting people to understand that people who have Asperger's DO NOT understand the concept of consequence..."
Sex God
I have spent a lot of time reading and digesting all of your argurments and opinions and am now ready to offer my opinion (of which we are all entitled of course).
My son has Autsim, which for those of you who do not know is an Autistic Spectrum Disorder (ASD). Autistic Spectrum disorders are NOT mental disabilities!! They are learning disabilities. Some people on the higher end of the spectrum would not be classed as disabled ... in such cases it is a learning difficulty.
Many disorders are on the spectrum, including Autsim which is considered to be a low functioning ASD and Aspergers which is considered to be a high functioning ASD.
It is impossible to describe the signs and sypmtoms of a person on the Autistic Spectrum as each person is individual and will show different behaviours and require different strategies for their individual needs to be met. Some behaviours may be classic signs of a specific ASD but not every person with the disorder will display them!! Just as the colours in the spectrum merge, so does the Autistic Spectrum which is why it carries this name!!
As I already mentioned, my son has Autism, he is very low functioning, has very little understanding of the world around him and yet at the same time he is very bright. He has no sense of danger, no verbal communication, and would not understand that if he put his hand in the gas flame on the cooker that it would hurt. In fact, he probably would not learn from putting his hand in the flame and would do it again ..... BUT, he knows, for example, that if he pulls his sisters hair that this is wrong and he will be told off for it!!
So can anyone honestly say that a person on the Autistic Specrum does not understand consequences of their actions??? No we cant!!
Saying that a person with Aspergers is high functioning does give the impression that they are very bright and in some cases this is true. A contestant of young mastermind a few years ago was in fact a child with Aspergers syndrome. I believe his specialist subject was Star Wars (or something like this) and he answered every question correctly without thinking. General knowledge .... he had no idea .... this child appeared very bright but in a clip of him at home it showed that he could not be trusted to do anything without direct supervision. He was a danger to himself and others. But at a very young age he knew everything there was to know about star wars!! Just as it seems that Gary is a computer wizz!! I'm sure the majority of people have seen Rain Man? I know this is fictional, but it does give quite a true picture of what some people with Aspergers Syndrome are capable of .... counting cards, mathematical genius and yet cannot cross a road unaided!! Of course to assume that everyone with an ASD has a 'gift' would also be very wrong!!
So in my opinion ..... I feel that it is unfair to put Gary through the ordeal of a trial in America, as I am positive he will find this very difficult to cope with and will need a great deal of support, but I am also sure that experts in ASD will have been consulted about this. Maybe this is why it has taken so long??
Did he know what he was doing and the consequences of his actions?? Maybe, maybe not .... who knows?? He is an invididual with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder and none of us here know the specifics of his individual needs.
Should he do time?? I think not .... I think he should be thanked for highlighting a major problem in US security and in future he should supervised when surfing the net!!!!
My son has Autsim, which for those of you who do not know is an Autistic Spectrum Disorder (ASD). Autistic Spectrum disorders are NOT mental disabilities!! They are learning disabilities. Some people on the higher end of the spectrum would not be classed as disabled ... in such cases it is a learning difficulty.
Many disorders are on the spectrum, including Autsim which is considered to be a low functioning ASD and Aspergers which is considered to be a high functioning ASD.
It is impossible to describe the signs and sypmtoms of a person on the Autistic Spectrum as each person is individual and will show different behaviours and require different strategies for their individual needs to be met. Some behaviours may be classic signs of a specific ASD but not every person with the disorder will display them!! Just as the colours in the spectrum merge, so does the Autistic Spectrum which is why it carries this name!!
As I already mentioned, my son has Autism, he is very low functioning, has very little understanding of the world around him and yet at the same time he is very bright. He has no sense of danger, no verbal communication, and would not understand that if he put his hand in the gas flame on the cooker that it would hurt. In fact, he probably would not learn from putting his hand in the flame and would do it again ..... BUT, he knows, for example, that if he pulls his sisters hair that this is wrong and he will be told off for it!!
So can anyone honestly say that a person on the Autistic Specrum does not understand consequences of their actions??? No we cant!!
Saying that a person with Aspergers is high functioning does give the impression that they are very bright and in some cases this is true. A contestant of young mastermind a few years ago was in fact a child with Aspergers syndrome. I believe his specialist subject was Star Wars (or something like this) and he answered every question correctly without thinking. General knowledge .... he had no idea .... this child appeared very bright but in a clip of him at home it showed that he could not be trusted to do anything without direct supervision. He was a danger to himself and others. But at a very young age he knew everything there was to know about star wars!! Just as it seems that Gary is a computer wizz!! I'm sure the majority of people have seen Rain Man? I know this is fictional, but it does give quite a true picture of what some people with Aspergers Syndrome are capable of .... counting cards, mathematical genius and yet cannot cross a road unaided!! Of course to assume that everyone with an ASD has a 'gift' would also be very wrong!!
So in my opinion ..... I feel that it is unfair to put Gary through the ordeal of a trial in America, as I am positive he will find this very difficult to cope with and will need a great deal of support, but I am also sure that experts in ASD will have been consulted about this. Maybe this is why it has taken so long??
Did he know what he was doing and the consequences of his actions?? Maybe, maybe not .... who knows?? He is an invididual with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder and none of us here know the specifics of his individual needs.
Should he do time?? I think not .... I think he should be thanked for highlighting a major problem in US security and in future he should supervised when surfing the net!!!!
Sexpert
Quote by kentswingers777
Yes Fun a very good post, and has made me think about things.
Bloody hell - there's a first !!!
:D 
Sex God
Always gald to be of service ..... in more ways than one!!! :twisted:
I feel on this case that he might have a Learning Disability but having him not face up too his actions, is more dangerous.
He has the unique skill of being able to hack into some really 'hard to find places' but having this ability & his Learning Disability is dangerous.
What happens if another Conspiracy Theory was to grab his attention, say involving 'The War on Terror'. By hacking into places he could be placing the lives of Operatives at risk.
I think his punishment should be to either work of the Americans or if he doesn't then Jail but time along with place that takes into account his Learning Disability.
His intellect or should that be knowledge of I.T must be 'off the chart', so this needs to be dealt with.
Like the Banks & people that work for them.. Traders, Analysts & Executive Management.
They have far tooooo much power & without legal guidelines what could occur again would spell anarchy.
He has the unique skill of being able to hack into some really 'hard to find places' but having this ability & his Learning Disability is dangerous.
What happens if another Conspiracy Theory was to grab his attention, say involving 'The War on Terror'. By hacking into places he could be placing the lives of Operatives at risk.
I think his punishment should be to either work of the Americans or if he doesn't then Jail but time along with place that takes into account his Learning Disability.
His intellect or should that be knowledge of I.T must be 'off the chart', so this needs to be dealt with.
Like the Banks & people that work for them.. Traders, Analysts & Executive Management.
They have far tooooo much power & without legal guidelines what could occur again would spell anarchy.
Kent I feel to have a balanced view of this case you have to understand Aspergers, it isn’t an illness it is a syndrome. These people are not ill, there brains are just not wired the same as you and I, you just need to understand the way they think.
I have been around a couple of children with this syndrome and they are fascinating and highly clever beings that can be totally misunderstood. A lot are geniuses with rare qualities in them that even you and I can not begin to understand or answer.
They are literal thinkers if you say for example that the security systems of the USA can not be hacked into, they might spend many hours to prove that wrong, not to cause trouble, but just to show you it can be done.
You normally find people with Aspergers have a talent somewhere that comes out, take for example the lad years ago who is now an artist, as he can look at any building like the houses of parliament and go back and draw every detail down to the bricks used.
Can you explain how he can do this, as I can’t but he has to admired for his talent as it way and beyond normal peoples capabilities.
The guy that hacked into the systems is showing where his genius lays it should be used not locked away, so for that reason it would be a criminal injustice to lock him in a cell, one of which he has spend his life locked into suffering from this syndrome as they are not good with social skills and the interaction with groups of people. Maybe they see us as not very clever and can’t be bothered to waste time with the lesser mortals, who knows.
Maybe the government has not stopped his extradition is because they might not understand the syndrome, as they didn’t understand the banking systems, we can not always expect the government to make the right decisions for us, and if you fully expect they would, well I would be totally shocked.
It could be you expect them to make the right choice as you don’t understand the syndrome. Hopefully this is the case, as to put all your faith within the government is agreeing with all their decisions.
I have been around a couple of children with this syndrome and they are fascinating and highly clever beings that can be totally misunderstood. A lot are geniuses with rare qualities in them that even you and I can not begin to understand or answer.
They are literal thinkers if you say for example that the security systems of the USA can not be hacked into, they might spend many hours to prove that wrong, not to cause trouble, but just to show you it can be done.
You normally find people with Aspergers have a talent somewhere that comes out, take for example the lad years ago who is now an artist, as he can look at any building like the houses of parliament and go back and draw every detail down to the bricks used.
Can you explain how he can do this, as I can’t but he has to admired for his talent as it way and beyond normal peoples capabilities.
The guy that hacked into the systems is showing where his genius lays it should be used not locked away, so for that reason it would be a criminal injustice to lock him in a cell, one of which he has spend his life locked into suffering from this syndrome as they are not good with social skills and the interaction with groups of people. Maybe they see us as not very clever and can’t be bothered to waste time with the lesser mortals, who knows.
Maybe the government has not stopped his extradition is because they might not understand the syndrome, as they didn’t understand the banking systems, we can not always expect the government to make the right decisions for us, and if you fully expect they would, well I would be totally shocked.
It could be you expect them to make the right choice as you don’t understand the syndrome. Hopefully this is the case, as to put all your faith within the government is agreeing with all their decisions.
I think the interest in the case has focussed on the 'fairness' of prosecuting a seemingly affected person. He's unlikely to be simply jailed, he will obviously have to go into a care programme. But there are more important issues.
Suppose the child of a SH member managed to hack into this site. People would be very worried, would they not?
So the US just need to know how he did it. After that he can be treated in a care programme.
Suppose the child of a SH member managed to hack into this site. People would be very worried, would they not?
So the US just need to know how he did it. After that he can be treated in a care programme.
I understand what you are saying Minxy but...whilst individual ministers may not understand his condition, I am sure there are plenty of so called " Government experts " that do.
Bottom line is that this Government have decided that this case does not fall under it's own jurisdiction, but that of the Americans.
The question for me and is one that as yet I have heard no answers is....did he fully understand the implications of what he was doing?
That will be the fundamental argument when it comes to court.
IF the " experts " decide that he knew exactly what he was doing and the implications of that, then he is as guilty as I would have been, and should be dealt with under American law but.....IF they decide that he was not aware of his actions then he should not be jailed but helped.
It is a fine line here and I am sure the Americans will go with the fact he knew exactly what he was doing, and was a national threat to American security, of which he will spend years in jail if convicted.
None of us at this stage know whether he did or did not know the implications of his actions.....let the real " experts " decide on this one, and I feel he will get the fair trial, or at least I hope he will.
Bottom line is that this Government have decided that this case does not fall under it's own jurisdiction, but that of the Americans.
The question for me and is one that as yet I have heard no answers is....did he fully understand the implications of what he was doing?
That will be the fundamental argument when it comes to court.
IF the " experts " decide that he knew exactly what he was doing and the implications of that, then he is as guilty as I would have been, and should be dealt with under American law but.....IF they decide that he was not aware of his actions then he should not be jailed but helped.
It is a fine line here and I am sure the Americans will go with the fact he knew exactly what he was doing, and was a national threat to American security, of which he will spend years in jail if convicted.
None of us at this stage know whether he did or did not know the implications of his actions.....let the real " experts " decide on this one, and I feel he will get the fair trial, or at least I hope he will.
Warming the Bed
What he did wasn`t very clever as all he did was highlight the fact that as usual the Yanks had woeful people who need to be on trial are the administrators and so called security experts as were all found with their trousers down.
