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Go on have a punt on this one

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Quote by Rogue_Trader
Its lost all over again, but I ain't sitting through seven series again....

WOA WOA WOA, 7 series ? I have all 6 boxed sets which I have not yet watched, are you telling me there is another series ?
No Mids there are only six, just seeing who was awake...they have flung around the idea of a seventh...but should just let it all die :-)
Phew !!!
Quote by Trevaunance
No I don't buy that one, there have been many cases of planes crashing in remote areas sometimes vast in size such as Siberia or the Andes or remote parts of Australasia, South America and Canada black boxes have been pivotal in finding these aircraft.

No they haven't.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Now I buy it.
I just did some googling and your right, it is water activated, but that seems a bit silly, for the reasons I stated in my previous post, it is not just when planes are submerged or crash into the sea that it might be helpful to have a homing signal pinging away, we have the technology, otherwise how would air traffic control know where the aircraft was in the first place ? it seems crazy that a black box doesn't have the same equipment that the cockpit has in sending out a signal to ATC, often the cockpit is destroyed but the black box is not, which means that the signal the cockpit sends to ATC is lost.

I know I am lol
The simple fact is that the aircraft wreckage will be found by an emergency location transmitter. However the batteries on these tend to last no more than 48 hours reflecting the easier locating and rescue of people on board and the increased likelihood of surviving. This is not the black box that you keep talking about. If an aircraft crashes on land the boxes will be easier to locate within the wreckage.
The black box has the submersible activation method to locate the black box, not necessarily the aircraft, because wreckage settling on the sea floor can be spread over a larger area, dispersed by tidal influences and even covered over by shifting sands. The chemical reaction in the submersible activator will last for around 30 days.
Like I said, your right but I think the aviation authorities are wrong, a plane crashing in a remote area could well do with having a better device for transmitting it's location and it should be in the black box, a plane crashing in Siberia for example, Siberia covers 13.1 million square kilometres, that's a helluva lot of area to search especially with temperatures going down to as low as -70 degrees, (one village recorded a temperature of -89.9 degrees) you don't last long in that kind of weather so 48 hours may not be enough for you to be found and finding you quickly is of paramount importance, there are other areas in the world just as remote. Most people know the story of the Uruguayan Air Force Flight carrying 45 passengers that crashed in the Andes, it took over 2 months to find the survivors and only then because 2 of them had hiked off the mountain and found searchers rather than the other way round.
When you look at the timeline of the deaths it is easy to see that more people would have survived had rescue come sooner .....
October 1972
12 October (Thu) Day 0 Crew 5, Passengers October (Fri)
Day 1 -- Crashed at 3-34 pm 7 people missing (Martinez, Ramirez, Costemalle, Hounié, Magri, Shaw, Valeta), 5 people dead (Ferradas, F. Nicola, E. Nicola, E. Parrado, Vazquez). Alive: 33
14 October (Sat) Day 2Five people died (Lagurara, Abal, Mariani, Maquirriain, Martinez-Lamas) Dead: 10, missing: 7, alive: 28
21 October (Sat) Day 9
Susana "Susy" Parrado died. Dead: 11, missing: 7, alive: 27
24 October (Tue) Day 12
6 missing people found dead (Carlos Valeta not found until 14 December). Dead: 17, missing presumed dead: 1, alive: 27
29 October (Sun) Day 17
8 people died in an avalanche (Perez, Platero, L. Methol, Nicolich, Maspons, Menendez, Storm, Roque). Dead: 25, missing presumed dead: 1, alive: 19
November 1972
15 November (Wed) Day 34
Arturo Nogueira died. (dead: 26, missing presumed dead: 1, alive: 18)
18 November (Sat) Day 37
Rafael Echavarren died. (dead: 27, missing presumed dead: 1, alive: 17)
December 1972
11 December (Sun) Day 60
Numa Turcatti died. (dead: 28, missing presumed dead: 1, alive: 16)
12 December (Mon) Day 61
Parrado, Canessa and Vizintin set off to find help.
13 December (Tue) Day 62 Body of Daniel Shaw retrieved.
14 December (Wed) Day 63
Body of Carlos Valeta found. (dead: 29, alive: 16)
15 December (Thur) Day 64
Antonio Vizintin sent back to the December (Wed)
Day 69
Parrado and Canessa encounter Sergio Catalán.
21 December (Thu) Day 70
Parrado and Canessa December (Fri)
Day 71 6 people December (Sat)
Day 72
8 people rescued. 16 people alive.
CREW
Colonel Julio Ferrádas, Pilot (died in crash)
Lieutenant Colonel Dante Lagurara, Co-Pilot (died on first night)
Lieutenant Ramón Martínez, Navigator (fell to death from plane)
Sergeant Carlos Roque, Mechanic (died in avalanche)
Sergeant Ovidio Joaquín Ramírez, Flight attendant (fell to death from plane)
I don't see how a 42 year old plane crash has any bearing on today's air disasters??? BTW approx 300 people died in airplane crashes last year...compare that to 34,000 killed on the roads in America alone...need some perspective here.
But anyway, back to the FDR, in these days of instantaneous data traffic a black box is old technology and something similar using HF for data packets along with locator information for real time recording back on land should be installed. The only reason it isn't, is because the number of accidents per mile travelled is incredibly miniscule.
Perspective is, how many people were pedestrians and travelling in vehicles and how many were travelling in aircraft, if your going to do a comparison of that nature you also need to realise that the number of people at risk in motor accidents was also far greater. The number of people that can cause a car crash compared with the number of people that can cause an airline crash is far greater too, there are a lot more drivers than pilots.
The relevance of an old plane crash is that we need to learn from such things, road safety and airline safety is constantly being improved, This is a simple upgrade, the FDR has not changed much but is still capable of withstanding damage in most crash scenarios and all I said is that having the improved locating device located within it and capable of sending out the aircrafts location would be a good thing as this case proves, right now they are unable to locate the aircraft, yet they did know where it was, if the device that told them where it was or a duplicate device had been located in the FDR it is possible that in any crash scenario they would still know. Nothing major just an idea.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Perspective is, how many people were pedestrians and travelling in vehicles and how many were travelling in aircraft, if your going to do a comparison of that nature you also need to realise that the number of people at risk in motor accidents was also far greater. The number of people that can cause a car crash compared with the number of people that can cause an airline crash is far greater too, there are a lot more drivers than pilots.

More miles are travelled by aircraft than road vehicles... the stats are deaths per miles travelled.
Some interesting facts and figures from the latest briefing in Malaysia.
From the MAA (Malaysian Air Administration):-
The reports of the RR engines transmitting data for 4 hours after the loss are erroneous.
The satellite photo's from China should not have been released.
The Crew's homes have not been searched by the Malaysian Police.
One has to question why anyone would (and the Press publish) a 'fake' report on the RR engine data, which can only add to the anguish of the relatives awaiting official news.
Why would the Chinese publish satellite photo's (of suspected flight wreckage) without some form of 'official' approval? A 'mistake', I don't think so..
In any other country where an unexplained aircraft loss was reported, the Police/Accident Investigators would have searched the houses of the crew almost immediately to confirm / discount a suicide attempt by the flight crew. They were quick enough to investigate and discount the 'stolen' passports....
Boeing confirmed that this particular 777 was fitted with a EDR (Engineering Data Recorder) system but that the data from this system is only uploaded from the plane after landing to the airline engineering dept.
The aircraft was also fitted with the latest ADS-B transponder but this is only accurate over land as the system does not yet cover international waters.
And the mystery deepens..
This is either the most incompetent Air Crash investigation ever, or someone knows something that they're not releasing..
It will be interesting to see if the FAA ground all Boeing 777's in the next few days "in the interests of public safety"..
Some other snippets from 'experts':-
A physicist - At 80kmph - water is harder than concrete.
An RAF SAR pilot - A person wearing a high visibility jacket is only visible at a range of in good weather and flat seas.
A Pathologist - Bodies would not surface until day 7-8 when decomposition gases make them buoyant.
A Marine Biologist - the bodies may never be found as the South China sea is a breeding ground for Sharks and March/April/May is the main breeding season....
Quote by Rogue_Trader
Perspective is, how many people were pedestrians and travelling in vehicles and how many were travelling in aircraft, if your going to do a comparison of that nature you also need to realise that the number of people at risk in motor accidents was also far greater. The number of people that can cause a car crash compared with the number of people that can cause an airline crash is far greater too, there are a lot more drivers than pilots.

More miles are travelled by aircraft than road vehicles... the stats are deaths per miles travelled.
Which means the comparison is irrelevant because we all know that one flight can travel far more distance than the average car journey but one plane travelling say 8000 miles in one day has one flight crew one set of engines, wings etc which could cause a crash, count up the number of road vehicles needed to travel 8000 miles, lets say 800 doing one hundred miles that day or 400 doing 200 miles and the potential for driver error/catastrophic parts failure by those 400 and the thousands of other drivers they come into close contact with (let's say 10 feet) and the numbers are stacked against the road user.
Your comparison does show that it is easer to make a safety improvement to an aircraft than a car since there are less aircraft and the cost therefore would be far less than say installing a contraption on a car that stopped you getting too close to the vehicle in front (mine has this in cruise control, it keeps me the same distance behind the vehicle in front even if that vehicle slows down).
Try a comparison with a similar passenger carrying apparatus such as a cruise liner, something which carries a large number of passengers a long distance in one journey.
Quote by Fobs
Some other snippets from 'experts':-
A physicist - At 80kmph - water is harder than concrete.
An RAF SAR pilot - A person wearing a high visibility jacket is only visible at a range of in good weather and flat seas.
A Pathologist - Bodies would not surface until day 7-8 when decomposition gases make them buoyant.
A Marine Biologist - the bodies may never be found as the South China sea is a breeding ground for Sharks and March/April/May is the main breeding season....

They seem reasonable.
I just hope that this latest "find" possibility is not a wild goose chase, for the sake of the relatives of passengers who must be going through agony not knowing the planes fate and this new satellite sighting is in an area nobody would have dreamed of looking.
I just found out though that although searches have been intense and international nobody has checked the airport lounge, when I lose something it is generally down the back of a chair.
If they do find the plane in this area questions will be asked, it is so "the last place you would expect to find the plane" that we all know. that is where the search should have started because whenever we lose something it is always in the last place we think of looking and the last place we look.
Of course it's always in the last place you look. Once you have found it you stop looking don't you?
Quote by Trevaunance
Of course it's always in the last place you look. Once you have found it you stop looking don't you?

Great you worked out the joke, be careful you will end up with a sense of humour :ROFL:
Not a good day here anyway and certainly not one to bring out my humours side, I switched my phone onto airplane mode yesterday and haven't been able to find it today :sad: