Govt Inquiry into cycling

23 Nov 2012

Missed this one earlier this month while we were all arguing about Bradley Wiggins:

A cross-party inquiry into how to get Britain cycling was launched by Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs in Westminster today.
The report is due to be presented to Parliament in April 2013.
My wish list:
Cycle lanes extended to one third of the road width
£60 fine for stopping or parking in a cycle lane
VAT off bicycles & safety gear
Bring it on.....

23 Nov 2012

They could always add a tax escalator to the price of fuel which would gradually make it more and more expensive to run a car and force people out of their cars and onto bikes.
No, surely that would never be considered innocent

23 Nov 2012

Price rationing, surely not.
I did read today that they are considering a lifetime driviing ban after 2 drink drive convictions.

23 Nov 2012

Quote by Too Hot
Missed this one earlier this month while we were all arguing about Bradley Wiggins:

A cross-party inquiry into how to get Britain cycling was launched by Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs in Westminster today.
The report is due to be presented to Parliament in April 2013.
My wish list:
Cycle lanes extended to one third of the road width
£60 fine for stopping or parking in a cycle lane
VAT off bicycles & safety gear
Bring it on.....

One way to bring the cycling population down Too Hot.
Blimey lorry drivers will have a field day. rotflmao

23 Nov 2012

Quote by Ben_Minx
Price rationing, surely not.
I did read today that they are considering a lifetime driviing ban after 2 drink drive convictions.

I think there is an offence of being drinking charge of a bicycle too....

23 Nov 2012

Quote by GnV
Price rationing, surely not.
I did read today that they are considering a lifetime driviing ban after 2 drink drive convictions.

I think there is an offence of being drinking charge of a bicycle too....
Is there also one for having no lights, or jumping red lights, or perish the thought riding on a public pavement by any chance GnV?

23 Nov 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
Price rationing, surely not.
I did read today that they are considering a lifetime driviing ban after 2 drink drive convictions.

I think there is an offence of being drinking charge of a bicycle too....
Is there also one for having no lights, or jumping red lights, or perish the thought riding on a public pavement by any chance GnV?
Yes, they can pay the ultimate price....
I may be a grumpy old man but I sometimes think it would be really cool to poke my walking stick through the front wheel of a bicycle speeding through the crowds of shoppers on a busy pavement evil

23 Nov 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
Missed this one earlier this month while we were all arguing about Bradley Wiggins:

A cross-party inquiry into how to get Britain cycling was launched by Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs in Westminster today.
The report is due to be presented to Parliament in April 2013.
My wish list:
Cycle lanes extended to one third of the road width
£60 fine for stopping or parking in a cycle lane
VAT off bicycles & safety gear
Bring it on.....

One way to bring the cycling population down Too Hot.
Blimey lorry drivers will have a field day. rotflmao

Not at all there is a big lobby group pressing this committee to increase the width of cycle lanes and give cyclists control as to when overtaking vehicles can safely overtake them. The current cycle lanes have deemed hazardous by MP's who have been of fact finding missions to Denmark and the Netherlands where cycle lanes are bigger but passing vehicles can enter if a cyclist gives way.
Our cycle lanes just create SMIDSY type accidents because they force the cyclist into a narrow band close to the kerb.
Change - it is finally a coming......

23 Nov 2012

Quote by Too Hot
Not at all there is a big lobby group pressing this committee to increase the width of cycle lanes and give cyclists control as to when overtaking vehicles can safely overtake them. The current cycle lanes have deemed hazardous by MP's who have been of fact finding missions to Denmark and the Netherlands where cycle lanes are bigger but passing vehicles can enter if a cyclist gives way.
Our cycle lanes just create SMIDSY type accidents because they force the cyclist into a narrow band close to the kerb.
Change - it is finally a coming......

I certainly would not hold my breath on that one. Car drivers make up a huge amount of the voting population,and they are pissed off enough with the price of fuel. Dare a Government anger them any further? Time will tell, but it certainly ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
I would not be too smug just yet, as the car driver holds a lot of clout, and the cyclist is just a minor irritation at best. :bounce:

23 Nov 2012

No doubt I think you would like every where to be like this lol

23 Nov 2012

Quote by starlightcouple

Not at all there is a big lobby group pressing this committee to increase the width of cycle lanes and give cyclists control as to when overtaking vehicles can safely overtake them. The current cycle lanes have deemed hazardous by MP's who have been of fact finding missions to Denmark and the Netherlands where cycle lanes are bigger but passing vehicles can enter if a cyclist gives way.
Our cycle lanes just create SMIDSY type accidents because they force the cyclist into a narrow band close to the kerb.
Change - it is finally a coming......

I certainly would not hold my breath on that one. Car drivers make up a huge amount of the voting population,and they are pissed off enough with the price of fuel. Dare a Government anger them any further? Time will tell, but it certainly ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
I would not be too smug just yet, as the car driver holds a lot of clout, and the cyclist is just a minor irritation at best. :bounce:
You still haven't caught on have you Star?........
If you encourage people to get on their bikes for even just one journey a week - then your own driving experience improves. Car drivers should be encouraging people to take to their bikes - it is in their interest to do so.
It is also in the goivernments interest to get people doing less mileage in cars and reducing the UK's carbon footprint in order to meet pre agreed limits (I think it is a load of bollocks too - but hey...)
It is in your interest to get on your bike Star - 35,000 obesity related deaths in the UK last year; we all need to do something and this is going to be an excellent initiative for us all.

23 Nov 2012

Quote by Too Hot
Not at all there is a big lobby group pressing this committee to increase the width of cycle lanes and give cyclists control as to when overtaking vehicles can safely overtake them. The current cycle lanes have deemed hazardous by MP's who have been of fact finding missions to Denmark and the Netherlands where cycle lanes are bigger but passing vehicles can enter if a cyclist gives way.
Our cycle lanes just create SMIDSY type accidents because they force the cyclist into a narrow band close to the kerb.
Change - it is finally a coming......

:lol2:
Don't hold your breath...

23 Nov 2012

Government inquiry into cycling will also look at ways of taxing it.

23 Nov 2012

Quote by Too Hot
Missed this one earlier this month while we were all arguing about Bradley Wiggins:

A cross-party inquiry into how to get Britain cycling was launched by Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs in Westminster today.
The report is due to be presented to Parliament in April 2013.
My wish list:
Cycle lanes extended to one third of the road width
£60 fine for stopping or parking in a cycle lane
VAT off bicycles & safety gear
Bring it on.....

Cyclists who wish to use the road pay for the roads. (Sliding scale based on the gross weight of the cyclist and their bike?).
Cyclists who choose to endanger the public and ride on the pavements when the roads become blocked have their bikes crushed. And receive a fine from the courts.
Cyclists who fail to abide by the highway code receive a fine from the courts.
There are plenty of parks and official cycle paths for those wish to go for a ride. And for those who don't wish to get wet - most gyms have bikes too.
Sorry I'm not enthusiastic about this proposal.

23 Nov 2012

I don't think it is possible to increase the size of cycle lanes to 1/3 of the road. Cars cannot drive in cycle lanes, leaving all the traffic including buses, lorries and cars 1/3 each of a lane to drive in. Lanes are the width they are cos they have to be. To fit the traffic. Most roads wouldn't be wide enough for 2 vehicles, turning A-roads into single tracks.
Personally I think, where there are cycle lanes, there should be a kerb between them and the proper road to avoid 'drift' accidents.
I do believe cyclist should be protected - but I also feel that drivers need to be protected. None of us want to hit a bike and I have certainly had to endanger myself (with oncoming traffic) to avoid a cylist who is wandering into the car-line at 40 mph slower than I am going (legally) or who shoots out at junctions without a) looking or b) pausing. Cyclists MUST abide by the rules of the road. And many of them don't. Leaving us drivers to save their lives.
Round here they have time-trials on public roads that are in normal use. Do you think these riders signal at roundabouts, stop at Give Ways, stick to the riding line around roundabouts? I'll make it an easy quiz. No they don't - they risk all to get a good time.
They also pass each other without a glance backwards.
It's all very well saying we should all ride bikes. I live 10 miles from work and there is no way on earth anyone would ever persuade me to cycle to work - I simply don't enjoy work enough to risk my life to get there and spend and hour in driving rain when I could drive it in 20 minutes. I also shop on the way home - shall I put 6 carrier bags on my handlebars? Cycling is a fun activity if you are fit and have somewhere to do it safely. But it isn't, never will be and could never be the principal way of getting around.

23 Nov 2012

Quote by foxylady2209
I don't think it is possible to increase the size of cycle lanes to 1/3 of the road. Cars cannot drive in cycle lanes, leaving all the traffic including buses, lorries and cars 1/3 each of a lane to drive in. Lanes are the width they are cos they have to be. To fit the traffic. Most roads wouldn't be wide enough for 2 vehicles, turning A-roads into single tracks.
Personally I think, where there are cycle lanes, there should be a kerb between them and the proper road to avoid 'drift' accidents.
I do believe cyclist should be protected - but I also feel that drivers need to be protected. None of us want to hit a bike and I have certainly had to endanger myself (with oncoming traffic) to avoid a cylist who is wandering into the car-line at 40 mph slower than I am going (legally) or who shoots out at junctions without a) looking or b) pausing. Cyclists MUST abide by the rules of the road. And many of them don't. Leaving us drivers to save their lives.
Round here they have time-trials on public roads that are in normal use. Do you think these riders signal at roundabouts, stop at Give Ways, stick to the riding line around roundabouts? I'll make it an easy quiz. No they don't - they risk all to get a good time.
They also pass each other without a glance backwards.
It's all very well saying we should all ride bikes. I live 10 miles from work and there is no way on earth anyone would ever persuade me to cycle to work - I simply don't enjoy work enough to risk my life to get there and spend and hour in driving rain when I could drive it in 20 minutes. I also shop on the way home - shall I put 6 carrier bags on my handlebars? Cycling is a fun activity if you are fit and have somewhere to do it safely. But it isn't, never will be and could never be the principal way of getting around.

What a well reasoned thought out reply Foxy. All the things you state correctly will never be to the detriment of the car driver. All the things Too Hot seem to think will happen are all pie in the sky dreams from pie in the sky lobbyists.
I wonder when Parliament Square is going to be reduced for cars but increased for cyclists. loon

:loon:

23 Nov 2012

In Holland I believe half of urban journeys are on bicycle. The wikipedia page is quite informative.
The way you work the 1/3 of a road schemes is to allow motorists to use them but to give absolute right of way to the cyclist.
Although not yet gasping its last rattling breath the private car wont be sustainable for long so I think its pretty wise for society to think ahead.
In terms of average traffic speed at peak times, the UK has some of the slowest. Bristol, Glasgow and London all failing to break 15mph.

23 Nov 2012

Quote by Ben_Minx
In Holland I believe half of urban journeys are on bicycle. The wikipedia page is quite informative.
The way you work the 1/3 of a road schemes is to allow motorists to use them but to give absolute right of way to the cyclist.
Although not yet gasping its last rattling breath the private car wont be sustainable for long so I think its pretty wise for society to think ahead.
In terms of average traffic speed at peak times, the UK has some of the slowest. Bristol, Glasgow and London all failing to break 15mph.

Another good reason for moving to France then...
Same population, 3 times the land mass and the annual Tour de France....
What more can you ask?

23 Nov 2012

Quote by Ben_Minx
In Holland I believe half of urban journeys are on bicycle. The wikipedia page is quite informative.
The way you work the 1/3 of a road schemes is to allow motorists to use them but to give absolute right of way to the cyclist.
Although not yet gasping its last rattling breath the private car wont be sustainable for long so I think its pretty wise for society to think ahead.
In terms of average traffic speed at peak times, the UK has some of the slowest. Bristol, Glasgow and London all failing to break 15mph.

How is that diffrent from the current situation where cars drive down the road and move out around bikes? Given the lareg number of riders and the small number actually taken out by drivers getting too close we must accept that the majority of drivers make sufficient effirt to avoid the bikes already. I have ridden a bike to school for years and to work for a few years - I was forced off the road while static at lights once and had a car pull out in front of me at a junction once. All the other thousands of cars that passed me or waited at junctions as I passed, managed to avoid me. As a driver - I do the same.
Would these cycle lanes be enforced to the point that bike riders would be made to stay in them and be prevented from swerving in and out of lines of cars? One of the most stressful slow-traffic situations is 2 or 3 lines of cars creeping along with bikes randomly appearing on both sides of you - which side am I supposed to favour to give them room to pass? My car can't get any thinner.

23 Nov 2012

lets hope he had insurance and i hope the driver of the car didn't suffer any whiplash

:rotflmao:

23 Nov 2012

Many schemes have been tried foxy.
I was directed to one in Hull recently, at a roundabout, where 'green lanes' had been painted round the entire junction.
It was referred to as suicide alley (or something similar). More cyclists killed and maimed than was the case before the 'tinkering'.
Lets be careful out there as the inimitable Sergeant Esterhaus used to say in Hill Street Blues..

23 Nov 2012

Quote by foxylady2209
In Holland I believe half of urban journeys are on bicycle. The wikipedia page is quite informative.
The way you work the 1/3 of a road schemes is to allow motorists to use them but to give absolute right of way to the cyclist.
Although not yet gasping its last rattling breath the private car wont be sustainable for long so I think its pretty wise for society to think ahead.
In terms of average traffic speed at peak times, the UK has some of the slowest. Bristol, Glasgow and London all failing to break 15mph.

How is that diffrent from the current situation where cars drive down the road and move out around bikes? Given the lareg number of riders and the small number actually taken out by drivers getting too close we must accept that the majority of drivers make sufficient effirt to avoid the bikes already. I have ridden a bike to school for years and to work for a few years - I was forced off the road while static at lights once and had a car pull out in front of me at a junction once. All the other thousands of cars that passed me or waited at junctions as I passed, managed to avoid me. As a driver - I do the same.
Would these cycle lanes be enforced to the point that bike riders would be made to stay in them and be prevented from swerving in and out of lines of cars? One of the most stressful slow-traffic situations is 2 or 3 lines of cars creeping along with bikes randomly appearing on both sides of you - which side am I supposed to favour to give them room to pass? My car can't get any thinner.
I was once told that the reason road users remain unskilled is because they don't get enough feedback about their mistakes. In particular, the near miss that leaves a fellow road user quaking frequently makes no impact on the guilty party at all.
I agree that most of the time people using the road don't get killed or maimed. I believe about 2000 get killed and 25,000 get maimed each year though. That's a statistic we need to do something about.

24 Nov 2012

Quote by Ben_Minx
I believe about 2000 get killed and 25,000 get maimed each year though. That's a statistic we need to do something about.

Put it in reverse and the numbers move from one column to the other wink

Dave_Notts

24 Nov 2012

haha

24 Nov 2012

Quote by Ben_Minx
I was once told that the reason road users remain unskilled is because they don't get enough feedback about their mistakes.

I would like to throw in a point know if Ben will allow.
For most people a driving test is a once in a lifetime thing. It may take you several times to pass, but when you pass you pass. For the vast majority the car test is the end of it.
I hold an LGV and a PSV licence. Both of which are an addition to a basic car licence. I have successfully passed the fire service emergency response driver test, the Police advanced driver course and two different ambulance blue light courses.
Now because of the job I do I am forced to sit each test once every six months with the knowledge that if I fail I'm almost jobless, now thats pressure.
Most people never sit anything more than a basic driving test, basic being the word, and feedback once in a lifetime would do them no end of good

24 Nov 2012

Quote by Trevaunance
I was once told that the reason road users remain unskilled is because they don't get enough feedback about their mistakes.

I would like to throw in a point know if Ben will allow.
For most people a driving test is a once in a lifetime thing. It may take you several times to pass, but when you pass you pass. For the vast majority the car test is the end of it.
I hold an LGV and a PSV licence. Both of which are an addition to a basic car licence. I have successfully passed the fire service emergency response driver test, the Police advanced driver course and two different ambulance blue light courses.
Now because of the job I do I am forced to sit an LGV test once every six months with the knowledge that if I fail I'm almost jobless, now thats pressure.
Most people never sit anything more than a basic driving test, basic being the word, and feedback once in a lifetime would do them no end of good

24 Nov 2012

Quote by Ian
Missed this one earlier this month while we were all arguing about Bradley Wiggins:

A cross-party inquiry into how to get Britain cycling was launched by Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs in Westminster today.
The report is due to be presented to Parliament in April 2013.
My wish list:
Cycle lanes extended to one third of the road width
£60 fine for stopping or parking in a cycle lane
VAT off bicycles & safety gear
Bring it on.....

Cyclists who wish to use the road pay for the roads. (Sliding scale based on the gross weight of the cyclist and their bike?).
Cyclists who choose to endanger the public and ride on the pavements when the roads become blocked have their bikes crushed. And receive a fine from the courts.
Cyclists who fail to abide by the highway code receive a fine from the courts.
There are plenty of parks and official cycle paths for those wish to go for a ride. And for those who don't wish to get wet - most gyms have bikes too.
Sorry I'm not enthusiastic about this proposal.
:thumbup::thumbup:

24 Nov 2012

Quote by Trevaunance
I was once told that the reason road users remain unskilled is because they don't get enough feedback about their mistakes.

I would like to throw in a point know if Ben will allow.
For most people a driving test is a once in a lifetime thing. It may take you several times to pass, but when you pass you pass. For the vast majority the car test is the end of it.
I hold an LGV and a PSV licence. Both of which are an addition to a basic car licence. I have successfully passed the fire service emergency response driver test, the Police advanced driver course and two different ambulance blue light courses.
Now because of the job I do I am forced to sit an LGV test once every six months with the knowledge that if I fail I'm almost jobless, now thats pressure.
Most people never sit anything more than a basic driving test, basic being the word, and feedback once in a lifetime would do them no end of good
I would love to see a touch screen test like we have under the construction skills certification scheme, for motorists to keep abreast of changing legislation/driving skills etc.
failure to get the required 80% would mean a re-sit and following failure of the resit a temporary ban for a week.

24 Nov 2012

Quote by Ian
Missed this one earlier this month while we were all arguing about Bradley Wiggins:

A cross-party inquiry into how to get Britain cycling was launched by Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs in Westminster today.
The report is due to be presented to Parliament in April 2013.
My wish list:
Cycle lanes extended to one third of the road width
£60 fine for stopping or parking in a cycle lane
VAT off bicycles & safety gear
Bring it on.....

Cyclists who wish to use the road pay for the roads. (Sliding scale based on the gross weight of the cyclist and their bike?).
Cyclists who choose to endanger the public and ride on the pavements when the roads become blocked have their bikes crushed. And receive a fine from the courts.
Cyclists who fail to abide by the highway code receive a fine from the courts.
There are plenty of parks and official cycle paths for those wish to go for a ride. And for those who don't wish to get wet - most gyms have bikes too.
Sorry I'm not enthusiastic about this proposal.
There is no need to be enthusiastic, but by suggesting cyclists are penalised will simply put people back in their cars and make your own driving experience that much worse - is that what you want?
British Cycling represents a fair chunk of "adult" cyclists and 87% of their Members are also motor vehicle owners and so you would imagine and expect that they have a fair understanding of the rules of the road. Suggesting that cyclists pay a road tax is completely stupid especially when the number of cars now on Group A VED rates is growing exponentially. Whether it is a bicycle, motorcycle, car, van or commercial vehicle it is the person in control of the vehicle that matters in terms of safety - not the vehicle.
There is a psycholgical issue at the heart of this and being a car driver (4X4), motorcyclist (superbike) and cyclist (hybrid) I understand that what we all want to do, is to make the fastest progress that we can. When I am in the 4X4 I am very much limited in what I can do to make progress because I am in a line of traffic and there is sometimes a temptation to "speed" or overtake unnecessarily in order to make better progress. On my motorcycle i have considerably more manoevrability and acceleration that enables me to make better progress in traffic by filtering. This annoys car drivers no end and often they will try to block me just out of spite. On my bicycle, I have the ultimate flexibility and if a car tries to stop me filtering I can just go around the outside, cut inside or generally do whatever I can to keep moving. At delayed lights I can get off, walk across the pedestrian crossing and get back on and seemingly this flexibility annoys motorcyclists and motorists!
Bottom line here is that there should be respect all around for different classes of road user but in particular many motorists have no understanding at all of the vulnerabilities of being on two wheels. This point is important because of this report that is currently being proposed and the INTENTION is to create a sense of safety to get people out of their cars and onto bicycles for at least some of their journeys. Some of the proposals being considered are:
1) Increase in the number and size of cycle lanes so that cyclists have dedicated road space on at least 75% of the UK's A roads and are not hemmed into a norrow side section of the road that has been identified as being a primary cause of SMIDSY type accidents. The proposal is to enlarge the cycle lane to one third of the available road width.
2) Reduction of the urban speed limit from 30 mph to 20 mph but an allowance to enter a cycle lane if no cyclist is present or the cyclist gives way to allow safe overtaking.
3) Compulsory third party insurance for cyclists (currently supplied as Membership of British Cycling - up to £10 million)
4) Construction of new, dedicated cycle and pedestrian only routes across the UK with every local authority being given a minimum target of miles and a budget funded by DVLA
Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, the age of the car has peaked. There are almost 40% more cars on the road today than there were in 1994 and increases like that are unsustainable. We all know this but no one wants to do anything about it.
This committee has cross party support and its intention is to get people to make at least some of their journeys by bicycle. There is a realisation that taxing vehicle use may have some effect but encouraging a safer cycle environment will do much more.
By the way - It costs me almost £100 to fill my 4 X 4 up and i used to fill it every two weeks, now it is once a month. There are so many journeys you can do on a bicycle of you think about it and the government just wants to make those journeys safer.

24 Nov 2012

Quote by Stevie_and_Kitty
I was once told that the reason road users remain unskilled is because they don't get enough feedback about their mistakes.

I would like to throw in a point know if Ben will allow.
For most people a driving test is a once in a lifetime thing. It may take you several times to pass, but when you pass you pass. For the vast majority the car test is the end of it.
I hold an LGV and a PSV licence. Both of which are an addition to a basic car licence. I have successfully passed the fire service emergency response driver test, the Police advanced driver course and two different ambulance blue light courses.
Now because of the job I do I am forced to sit an LGV test once every six months with the knowledge that if I fail I'm almost jobless, now thats pressure.
Most people never sit anything more than a basic driving test, basic being the word, and feedback once in a lifetime would do them no end of good
I would love to see a touch screen test like we have under the construction skills certification scheme, for motorists to keep abreast of changing legislation/driving skills etc.
failure to get the required 80% would mean a re-sit and following failure of the resit a temporary ban for a week.
Absolutely correct. Anyone in charge of any motor vehicle should be re-tested on a regular basis (every three years?) until they turn 40, a further test at 50 and then at 60 and then again every three years thereafter.