I go to work every day and do what I'm paid for,does this make me a hero ???
P.S. I've been known to do overtime too
Sex God
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Hero ??
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Sex God
Does it not depend on what you do for a living?
Sex God
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: Sex God
would seem that the words hero and soldier are now this not devalue true acts of bravery/ I heard our armed forces are all volunteers who are paid to do a me that if heroism is doing ones job then I'm a hero too.
Sex God
And the concept of 'hero' is relative, is it not?
You may be a hero to the people at home, for supporting them and bringing home a wage etc.
Yet your job may bring misery to others - let's choose a bailiff as an example... or a traffic warden (to be deliberately provocative!) - the people you come in contact with are surely not going to see you as a hero.
You may be a hero to the people at home, for supporting them and bringing home a wage etc.
Yet your job may bring misery to others - let's choose a bailiff as an example... or a traffic warden (to be deliberately provocative!) - the people you come in contact with are surely not going to see you as a hero.
Sex God
Whilst I agree that the concept of heroism is a subjective seems to me its currency is being devalued
Is a deep sea trawlerman for instance,whose life is frequently endagered, less heroic than a soldier whose job keeps him in the relative safety of a base ??
Is the unquestioning support of "our boys" necessarily a good thing ??
Is a deep sea trawlerman for instance,whose life is frequently endagered, less heroic than a soldier whose job keeps him in the relative safety of a base ??
Is the unquestioning support of "our boys" necessarily a good thing ??
...no, I don't think that being a soldier makes you a hero by default.
Sexlightened
I don't think people do have "unquestioning" support of our troops, they can examine the evidence of the spread of the Taleban & Al Queda and the export of terror from Afghanistan & Pakistan border regions and come to the conclusion that the people fighting them and putting their lives at risk in a fighting situation could reasonably be called "heroes" !
Sex God
Why is there a spread of terrorism from the borders of Pakistan and Afghanistan ??? does the presence of an invading hostile army have a role to play in this ??
I repeat, is the unquestioning support of our troops necessarily a good thing?
I repeat, is the unquestioning support of our troops necessarily a good thing?
Sex God
I think recognising and supporting the fact that a lot of troops right now are doing a difficult job in sometimes unimaginable circumstances - in the name of our country - is important.
Unquestioning support? I believe I can, should I wish, wholeheartedly support the troops currently in war zones, those recently returned, those permanently disabled, traumatised and the families of the deceased whilst still questioning the people who sent them there.
Unquestioning support? I believe I can, should I wish, wholeheartedly support the troops currently in war zones, those recently returned, those permanently disabled, traumatised and the families of the deceased whilst still questioning the people who sent them there.
Sex God
I can't agree nola, the military are paid to do a job, in the knowledge that this may involve danger to themselves.
I agree that anyone who is injured or traumatised should receive the best of care.
If the current actions in Afghanistan an Iraq are being carried out in the name of our country it must have been changed ,I live in the U.K. not the U.S.A.
I would contend that the current military action has put us in more not less danger of being the targets of terrorist action.
I still feel and await a satisfactory answer to the question that unquestioning support of "our" troops is a dangerous thing that is and should not be promulgated by certain sections of our media
I agree that anyone who is injured or traumatised should receive the best of care.
If the current actions in Afghanistan an Iraq are being carried out in the name of our country it must have been changed ,I live in the U.K. not the U.S.A.
I would contend that the current military action has put us in more not less danger of being the targets of terrorist action.
I still feel and await a satisfactory answer to the question that unquestioning support of "our" troops is a dangerous thing that is and should not be promulgated by certain sections of our media
Sex God
And yes I do realise I've posed a slightly different question
Sexlightened
Most of the terror plots that were intended to be inflicted on the UK have their roots in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border region - fact.
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I can't agree nola, the military are paid to do a job, in the knowledge that this may involve danger to themselves.
I agree that anyone who is injured or traumatised should receive the best of care.
If the current actions in Afghanistan an Iraq are being carried out in the name of our country it must have been changed ,I live in the U.K. not the U.S.A.
I would contend that the current military action has put us in more not less danger of being the targets of terrorist action.
I still feel and await a satisfactory answer to the question that unquestioning support of "our" troops is a dangerous thing that is and should not be promulgated by certain sections of our media
Thing is, I haven't said at any point that I support anything or anyone 'unquestioningly': I constantly query and reason and debate and think... I vote in every election blah blah.
Neither have I tried to deny the fact that the armed forces are paid to do a job.
It doesn't stop me thinking that some of what they do is heroic... but then I also think the men and women who care for my elderly uncle in his nursing home are pretty heroic in their own way.
I am merely debating the issues you've raised.
Sex God
Quote by Riotandantony
Most of the terror plots that were intended to be inflicted on the UK have their roots in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border region - fact.
And were in all probabiity designed as a response to the invasion of said areas
Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen, are not all hero's, you have to do some thing heroic to earn that title and and plenty have, those that have will also say there not a hero, they did not do it for queen or country they did for there mates and they are not interested in the medals.
Our armed forces have been put in harms way by our elected goverment, they dont get to question this, they have to get on and do the job, they do a difficault job in shit circumstances and not just overseas and I belive they do deserve our support and they certainly have mine, we all sleep well at night knowing we have men and women who will defend this country, not heroic but worth a thank you now and again.
Reacher
Ex Rock Ape - Per Ardua
Our armed forces have been put in harms way by our elected goverment, they dont get to question this, they have to get on and do the job, they do a difficault job in shit circumstances and not just overseas and I belive they do deserve our support and they certainly have mine, we all sleep well at night knowing we have men and women who will defend this country, not heroic but worth a thank you now and again.
Reacher
Ex Rock Ape - Per Ardua
Sex God
Not all that I wrote was a response to you nola ,sorry I have a habit of meandering in any debate.
Sex God
Quote by Reacher359
Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen, are not all hero's, you have to do some thing heroic to earn that title and and plenty have, those that have will also say there not a hero, they did not do it for queen or country they did for there mates and they are not interested in the medals.
Our armed forces have been put in harms way by our elected goverment, they dont get to question this, they have to get on and do the job, they do a difficault job in shit circumstances and not just overseas and I belive they do deserve our support and they certainly have mine, we all sleep well at night knowing we have men and women who will defend this country, not heroic but worth a thank you now and again.
Reacher
Ex Rock Ape - Per Ardua
:thumbup:
Sex God
Quote by Reacher359
Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen, are not all hero's, you have to do some thing heroic to earn that title and and plenty have, those that have will also say there not a hero, they did not do it for queen or country they did for there mates and they are not interested in the medals.
Our armed forces have been put in harms way by our elected goverment, they dont get to question this, they have to get on and do the job, they do a difficault job in shit circumstances and not just overseas and I belive they do deserve our support and they certainly have mine, we all sleep well at night knowing we have men and women who will defend this country, not heroic but worth a thank you now and again.
Reacher
Ex Rock Ape - Per Ardua
The very fact that they don't question it is a worry.
Sexlightened
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Most of the terror plots that were intended to be inflicted on the UK have their roots in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border region - fact.
And were in all probabiity designed as a response to the invasion of said areas
Afghanistan was invaded because the vile Taleban were,and are, sheltering Al Queda, terrorists are sent from this area because they hate our way of life and want to islamise the rest of us,(the planned bomb attack on London's Ministry of Sound nightclub had as at least part of its motive "the girls are dancing slags") a Taleban reprasentative speaking from the area of Pakistan they have just invaded from the Swat Valley on C4 new the other day said they intended to carry their doctrine to the rest of Pakistan and thence the globe.
Also, in responce to Bensrum's "no blood for oil" sloganism, neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan produce any oil !
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen, are not all hero's, you have to do some thing heroic to earn that title and and plenty have, those that have will also say there not a hero, they did not do it for queen or country they did for there mates and they are not interested in the medals.
Our armed forces have been put in harms way by our elected goverment, they dont get to question this, they have to get on and do the job, they do a difficault job in shit circumstances and not just overseas and I belive they do deserve our support and they certainly have mine, we all sleep well at night knowing we have men and women who will defend this country, not heroic but worth a thank you now and again.
Reacher
Ex Rock Ape - Per Ardua
The very fact that they don't question it is a worry.
Who are you expecting to question it, because the average squaddie is just going to do his job and let the thinking be done by others
There are those that do think and those have had a dilemma, do they pvr or do they stay and use that experience, both has happend.
The armed forces sign a oath of allegiance and the official secrets act this means that you cant turn around and start to question orders or be openly critical of decions to go to war some senior officer have and they have been forced to retire, for example Maj Gen Tim Cross, for the rest of it would mean a admin or possible dis honerable discharge, getting another job would be impossible, oh and you cant just leave and quit your job because you dont like it.
Dont blame the armed forces for mistakes made by the goverment, the majority of this isle voted for Labour as an isle we only have ourselvs to blame, but I do belive we have it within our power to change.
Reacher
Per Ardua
Sex God
Quote by Riotandantony
Most of the terror plots that were intended to be inflicted on the UK have their roots in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border region - fact.
And were in all probabiity designed as a response to the invasion of said areas
Afghanistan was invaded because the vile Taleban were,and are, sheltering Al Queda, terrorists are sent from this area because they hate our way of life and want to islamise the rest of us,(the planned bomb attack on London's Ministry of Sound nightclub had as at least part of its motive "the girls are dancing slags") a Taleban reprasentative speaking from the area of Pakistan they have just invaded from the Swat Valley on C4 new the other day said they intended to carry their doctrine to the rest of Pakistan and thence the globe.
Also, in responce to Bensrum's "no blood for oil" sloganism, neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan produce any oil !
surely the question posed by this is ,was the invasion of Afghanistan the best response to the taleban ??
I am no fan of any oppressive regime but the invasion has and will not changed the talebans opinions it has further entrenched them and made them more determined to prevail....this is a fairly natural response to an attack.
Further the occupation of afghanistan is unworkable no government has ever controlled any more than small pockets of afghan territory.
People cannot and will not be forced to believe something,minds are changed by persausion not force.
The soldiers in Afghanistan are dieing for nothing,they will not succeed in their mission,the only answer to the problems we face with militant Islam is diplomacy.
Sexlightened
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Most of the terror plots that were intended to be inflicted on the UK have their roots in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border region - fact.
And were in all probabiity designed as a response to the invasion of said areas
Afghanistan was invaded because the vile Taleban were,and are, sheltering Al Queda, terrorists are sent from this area because they hate our way of life and want to islamise the rest of us,(the planned bomb attack on London's Ministry of Sound nightclub had as at least part of its motive "the girls are dancing slags") a Taleban reprasentative speaking from the area of Pakistan they have just invaded from the Swat Valley on C4 new the other day said they intended to carry their doctrine to the rest of Pakistan and thence the globe.
Also, in responce to Bensrum's "no blood for oil" sloganism, neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan produce any oil !
surely the question posed by this is ,was the invasion of Afghanistan the best response to the taleban ??
I am no fan of any oppressive regime but the invasion has and will not changed the talebans opinions it has further entrenched them and made them more determined to prevail....this is a fairly natural response to an attack.
Further the occupation of afghanistan is unworkable no government has ever controlled any more than small pockets of afghan territory.
People cannot and will not be forced to believe something,minds are changed by persausion not force.
The soldiers in Afghanistan are dieing for nothing,they will not succeed in their mission,the only answer to the problems we face with militant Islam is diplomacy.
Militant islamists such as the Taleban are not interested in diplomacy, they rule - you submit ; that's the deal. These murderous islamo-fascists thugs just need a bullet through their tiny little brains !
Quote by Reacher359
Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen, are not all hero's, you have to do some thing heroic to earn that title and and plenty have, those that have will also say there not a hero, they did not do it for queen or country they did for there mates and they are not interested in the medals.
Reacher
Ex Rock Ape - Per Ardua
Just got back in and this is what I was going to say.
The other bit is that a better word would be what the government has now introduced.........the veterans medal. Thats what they all are.
They are all veterans, but not all veterans are heroes. Only a special kind of person is a forces hero. I am a veteran.......but the Gurkha who attacked 3 Japenese tanks with a bag of handgrenades is a hero.......I would say bloody stupid though
. Just glad he was fighting for this country and not against it.Dave_Notts
Sex God
Quote by Riotandantony
Most of the terror plots that were intended to be inflicted on the UK have their roots in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border region - fact.
And were in all probabiity designed as a response to the invasion of said areas
Afghanistan was invaded because the vile Taleban were,and are, sheltering Al Queda, terrorists are sent from this area because they hate our way of life and want to islamise the rest of us,(the planned bomb attack on London's Ministry of Sound nightclub had as at least part of its motive "the girls are dancing slags") a Taleban reprasentative speaking from the area of Pakistan they have just invaded from the Swat Valley on C4 new the other day said they intended to carry their doctrine to the rest of Pakistan and thence the globe.
Also, in responce to Bensrum's "no blood for oil" sloganism, neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan produce any oil !
surely the question posed by this is ,was the invasion of Afghanistan the best response to the taleban ??
I am no fan of any oppressive regime but the invasion has and will not changed the talebans opinions it has further entrenched them and made them more determined to prevail....this is a fairly natural response to an attack.
Further the occupation of afghanistan is unworkable no government has ever controlled any more than small pockets of afghan territory.
People cannot and will not be forced to believe something,minds are changed by persausion not force.
The soldiers in Afghanistan are dieing for nothing,they will not succeed in their mission,the only answer to the problems we face with militant Islam is diplomacy.
Militant islamists such as the Taleban are not interested in diplomacy, they rule - you submit ; that's the deal. These murderous islamo-fascists thugs just need a bullet through their tiny little brains !
before the invasion of Afghanistan,as I understand it......
The taleban controlled only a small area around Kabul,any further influence they wielded was through COMPROMISING (important word)with local tribal leaders.
Kabul was slowly but inexorably being opened to outside influence and IDEAS (important word)through patient and dogged diplomacy.
There's an old quote (from whom I'm not sure)and I'm sure I paraphrase...."kill one of us and two shall stand in his place"
Your idea of putting a bullet in their tiny little minds is put less diplomatically but I'm sure would sit well coming from the mouth of Osama Bin Laden or any other short sighted ignorant bigot you may think of
Quote by kentswingers777
Why is there a spread of terrorism from the borders of Pakistan and Afghanistan ??? does the presence of an invading hostile army have a role to play in this ??
I repeat, is the unquestioning support of our troops necessarily a good thing?
You bloody bet it is!!
So you cant see an argument against it then?
Sexlightened
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Most of the terror plots that were intended to be inflicted on the UK have their roots in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border region - fact.
And were in all probabiity designed as a response to the invasion of said areas
Afghanistan was invaded because the vile Taleban were,and are, sheltering Al Queda, terrorists are sent from this area because they hate our way of life and want to islamise the rest of us,(the planned bomb attack on London's Ministry of Sound nightclub had as at least part of its motive "the girls are dancing slags") a Taleban reprasentative speaking from the area of Pakistan they have just invaded from the Swat Valley on C4 new the other day said they intended to carry their doctrine to the rest of Pakistan and thence the globe.
Also, in responce to Bensrum's "no blood for oil" sloganism, neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan produce any oil !
surely the question posed by this is ,was the invasion of Afghanistan the best response to the taleban ??
I am no fan of any oppressive regime but the invasion has and will not changed the talebans opinions it has further entrenched them and made them more determined to prevail....this is a fairly natural response to an attack.
Further the occupation of afghanistan is unworkable no government has ever controlled any more than small pockets of afghan territory.
People cannot and will not be forced to believe something,minds are changed by persausion not force.
The soldiers in Afghanistan are dieing for nothing,they will not succeed in their mission,the only answer to the problems we face with militant Islam is diplomacy.
Militant islamists such as the Taleban are not interested in diplomacy, they rule - you submit ; that's the deal. These murderous islamo-fascists thugs just need a bullet through their tiny little brains !
before the invasion of Afghanistan,as I understand it......
The taleban controlled only a small area around Kabul,any further influence they wielded was through COMPROMISING (important word)with local tribal leaders.
Kabul was slowly but inexorably being opened to outside influence and IDEAS (important word)through patient and dogged diplomacy.
There's an old quote (from whom I'm not sure)and I'm sure I paraphrase...."kill one of us and two shall stand in his place"
Your idea of putting a bullet in their tiny little minds is put less diplomatically but I'm sure would sit well coming from the mouth of Osama Bin Laden or any other short sighted ignorant bigot you may think of
Point scoring won't work Staggerlee ! Osama and his ilk have chosen to inflict islam on others through violent ends, and must be resisted as such.
