Is being honest a good thing?
E.G:
The person who is honest with their lover but not their partner.
I personally appreciate honesty. That way I can make my own mind up about a person.
dee x
Orgasminator
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Honesty
Quote by dee_licious
Is being honest a good thing?
E.G:
The person who is honest with their lover but not their partner.
I personally appreciate honesty. That way I can make my own mind up about a person.
dee x
I totally agree about appreciating honesty and how it helps to make up one's mind about a person but being honest with a lover but not a partner is only being honest to a limited degree. Surely the partner is the one deserving of honesty?
Quote by Rogue_Trader
In my eyes I don't see how anyone can have a healthy relationship without being honest. If they are prepared to be deceitful then they should be prepared to accept the consequences.
errr but when the missus says...." does my bum look big in this " maybe a little discretion being the better part of valour has to be employed !!!! lol
Quote by deancannock
In my eyes I don't see how anyone can have a healthy relationship without being honest. If they are prepared to be deceitful then they should be prepared to accept the consequences.
errr but when the missus says...." does my bum look big in this " maybe a little discretion being the better part of valour has to be employed !!!! lol
I usually give my answer of "But darling, your bum looks big in skin!"
Seriously though, I would hope that if I had asked that question I would have got a proper answer instead of looking like a heffalump had got in to my tights!
Orgasminator
Quote by Rogue_Trader
In my eyes I don't see how anyone can have a healthy relationship without being honest. If they are prepared to be deceitful then they should be prepared to accept the consequences.
errr but when the missus says...." does my bum look big in this " maybe a little discretion being the better part of valour has to be employed !!!! lol
I usually give my answer of "But darling, your bum looks big in skin!"
Seriously though, I would hope that if I had asked that question I would have got a proper answer instead of looking like a heffalump had got in to my tights!
:lol:
This is quite a contentious subject now doubt - Honesty. The thing about 'Honesty', is that it can be subjective. People can have different levels of honesty, people can take honesty to mean different things. Some people couldn't give a damn about honesty and some people value it as the most important thing overall.
What does kind of get my goat, is that when this honesty question (or similar) is raised, then all and sundry seem to come out with their judgemental sticks and at times can berate people for their current situation. Now, I'm not saying that this is happening here.. But honesty doesn't just cover the topic of infidelity. There's also a distinct lack of honesty when people fail to put on their profile the fact that they're slightly or seriously unhinged. Or lack of honesty when it comes to pretending to be someone totally different. Or even the lack of honesty when it comes to people hiding behind the 'swinging & NSA' approach, when in actual fact they're looking for love.
Back to the 'cheating' aspect. Well.. Each person has their own reasons as to why they make the decision to keep SH from their partner. You see, very often people judge the individual when there's a distinct lack of info known about that person. Instantly assuming that it's a case of wanting his/her cake and eating it
People can chose how honest they are with their lover, partner, friends or whoever.. It's a pure judgement call on their part. And of course people are allowed to have their own opinions on this. But to judge each other without knowing the facts can be detrimental to a scene such as this. So while it is important to be as honest as possible with someone/people to womb you owe that honesty, it's still just important, if not more so, to be open and honest with anyone who takes the time in their life to get to know you at any particular time . It's in this scenario I feel that a certain amount of respect and honesty is essential.
So yes, of course it's important to be honest with your partner. It would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. But there are soooo many different variables that effect this decision. Such as the lack of happiness in a relationship, open relationships where neither party wants to know what the others doing, relationships that have plenty of love but no sexual desires, or the feeling of being able to totally be yourself amongst swingers, and many many more. Sometimes people just haven't been fortunate enough to meet someone on that same wavelength. You also often here people saying , "well leave your partner then".. Again this presents a load of other variables as to why someone may not want to do this. The point being however, it is for THAT person to decide whether or not they wish to stay in a relationship such as that.
So in my opinion.. We are all adults. We all lead our own individual lives and all make our own individual decisions. If however you chose not to disclose certain details to a partner of sorts then it is essential that you allow that 'other' (lover etc) person to make an informed decision as to whether or not they wish to engage with you in any way.
I just think that for as important as it is not to judge people in certain types of relationships or people that have certain sexual preferences, it is equally as important that we don't overly judge people without knowing anything about them or their situation.
Magik x
What does kind of get my goat, is that when this honesty question (or similar) is raised, then all and sundry seem to come out with their judgemental sticks and at times can berate people for their current situation. Now, I'm not saying that this is happening here.. But honesty doesn't just cover the topic of infidelity. There's also a distinct lack of honesty when people fail to put on their profile the fact that they're slightly or seriously unhinged. Or lack of honesty when it comes to pretending to be someone totally different. Or even the lack of honesty when it comes to people hiding behind the 'swinging & NSA' approach, when in actual fact they're looking for love.
Back to the 'cheating' aspect. Well.. Each person has their own reasons as to why they make the decision to keep SH from their partner. You see, very often people judge the individual when there's a distinct lack of info known about that person. Instantly assuming that it's a case of wanting his/her cake and eating it
People can chose how honest they are with their lover, partner, friends or whoever.. It's a pure judgement call on their part. And of course people are allowed to have their own opinions on this. But to judge each other without knowing the facts can be detrimental to a scene such as this. So while it is important to be as honest as possible with someone/people to womb you owe that honesty, it's still just important, if not more so, to be open and honest with anyone who takes the time in their life to get to know you at any particular time . It's in this scenario I feel that a certain amount of respect and honesty is essential.
So yes, of course it's important to be honest with your partner. It would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. But there are soooo many different variables that effect this decision. Such as the lack of happiness in a relationship, open relationships where neither party wants to know what the others doing, relationships that have plenty of love but no sexual desires, or the feeling of being able to totally be yourself amongst swingers, and many many more. Sometimes people just haven't been fortunate enough to meet someone on that same wavelength. You also often here people saying , "well leave your partner then".. Again this presents a load of other variables as to why someone may not want to do this. The point being however, it is for THAT person to decide whether or not they wish to stay in a relationship such as that.
So in my opinion.. We are all adults. We all lead our own individual lives and all make our own individual decisions. If however you chose not to disclose certain details to a partner of sorts then it is essential that you allow that 'other' (lover etc) person to make an informed decision as to whether or not they wish to engage with you in any way.
I just think that for as important as it is not to judge people in certain types of relationships or people that have certain sexual preferences, it is equally as important that we don't overly judge people without knowing anything about them or their situation.
Magik x
Orgasminator
Quote by the_magik_s
This is quite a contentious subject now doubt - Honesty. The thing about 'Honesty', is that it can be subjective. People can have different levels of honesty, people can take honesty to mean different things. Some people couldn't give a damn about honesty and some people value it as the most important thing overall.
What does kind of get my goat, is that when this honesty question (or similar) is raised, then all and sundry seem to come out with their judgemental sticks and at times can berate people for their current situation. Now, I'm not saying that this is happening here.. But honesty doesn't just cover the topic of infidelity. There's also a distinct lack of honesty when people fail to put on their profile the fact that they're slightly or seriously unhinged. Or lack of honesty when it comes to pretending to be someone totally different. Or even the lack of honesty when it comes to people hiding behind the 'swinging & NSA' approach, when in actual fact they're looking for love.
Back to the 'cheating' aspect. Well.. Each person has their own reasons as to why they make the decision to keep SH from their partner. You see, very often people judge the individual when there's a distinct lack of info known about that person. Instantly assuming that it's a case of wanting his/her cake and eating it
People can chose how honest they are with their lover, partner, friends or whoever.. It's a pure judgement call on their part. And of course people are allowed to have their own opinions on this. But to judge each other without knowing the facts can be detrimental to a scene such as this. So while it is important to be as honest as possible with someone/people to womb you owe that honesty, it's still just important, if not more so, to be open and honest with anyone who takes the time in their life to get to know you at any particular time . It's in this scenario I feel that a certain amount of respect and honesty is essential.
So yes, of course it's important to be honest with your partner. It would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. But there are soooo many different variables that effect this decision. Such as the lack of happiness in a relationship, open relationships where neither party wants to know what the others doing, relationships that have plenty of love but no sexual desires, or the feeling of being able to totally be yourself amongst swingers, and many many more. Sometimes people just haven't been fortunate enough to meet someone on that same wavelength. You also often here people saying , "well leave your partner then".. Again this presents a load of other variables as to why someone may not want to do this. The point being however, it is for THAT person to decide whether or not they wish to stay in a relationship such as that.
So in my opinion.. We are all adults. We all lead our own individual lives and all make our own individual decisions. If however you chose not to disclose certain details to a partner of sorts then it is essential that you allow that 'other' (lover etc) person to make an informed decision as to whether or not they wish to engage with you in any way.
I just think that for as important as it is not to judge people in certain types of relationships or people that have certain sexual preferences, it is equally as important that we don't overly judge people without knowing anything about them or their situation.
Magik x
Very well written magik.......... I dont judge people by what they are, all I ask for is honesty .......btw do you fancy a shag
quote="deancannock"]
errr but when the missus says...." does my bum look big in this " maybe a little discretion being the better part of valour has to be employed !!!! lol
No No No, though I do agree with what your saying, total honesty is not always a good thing, if I was talking about someone who had died I might with hold some of my opinions and even some facts if they were not going to show the person in a good light, I might say in conversation that I enjoyed food at a friends, but with my partner, total honesty, if her bum looks big in it I will tell her, that is my job as her partner, better she hears it from be before going out than walking out in something that doesn't look right on her, making sure she does look her best, wears the right outfit that she feels comfortable in and that she looks good in, telling her if something she cooks does not taste right.
Would she want me to eat peas soaked in honey that I did not like for the rest of our relationship time together, or would she like me to enjoy what she prepares for me, after all she prepares it for me to please me.
Would she really want to meet her friends or walk through town in something that looked wrong or hear it from someone she loves and trusts, I know what I would want.
As for cheating on partners, personal opinion, scum, there is no excuse for it, married or just in a relationship the words are Respect and Trust, if you don't give it don't expect it back. For better or for worse. Do it if you want that is your business but don't ask me to condone it, forgive it, agree with it, no matter what excuse you give for doing it, a partner deserves better and disrespecting them by cheating on them means that they would be better off without you and finding a person they deserve, no sex at home, talk to them, discuss how you feel, find a solution even if that solution is to tell them that though you love them and want to be with them you cannot live your life without sex and tell them that you will seek sex outside the relationship but only sex not love, if they don't accept it then you have made a mutual decision to part or you stay faithful.
Telling me "at least I am honest" because you admitted you cheated on your partner says you are more honest with me a stranger than someone your supposed to love, trust and respect, I don't want your honesty, I don't want to take something from your partner that they should have not me.
Am I ever dishonest, yes of course I am, am I ever dishonest with my partner, no she deserves my honesty with her in just the same way I deserve and expect her honesty with me.
I live my life in a way I feel comfortable, so yes I might lie to my family saying everything is fine and my health is great even if I am in pain or have a problem that they cannot help with, I might lie to be kind but there is a fine line between being dishonest and deceitful.
Morals are something that differ from individual to individual, your morals are a way of living that you feel comfortable with, someone who attacks an old lady feels comfortable with what they do, in most peoples eyes they are scum but that same person might agree with me in thinking they are fine but paedophiles are scum, me I think they both are. I
In this scenario most would agree with my morals but in lesser situation such as my morals on sex with consenting adults or adultery for example I can only live by my own morals, hard to explain but when something is legal then it is morals that control what we do and nobody can tell us what those morals should be though Governments, Religions and other people do try to tell us. Swinging is a typical example, it is not illegal so what right has someone or something such as the church to tell us not to do it.
Quote by Rogue_Trader
In my eyes I don't see how anyone can have a healthy relationship without being honest. If they are prepared to be deceitful then they should be prepared to accept the consequences.
errr but when the missus says...." does my bum look big in this " maybe a little discretion being the better part of valour has to be employed !!!! lol
No No No, though I do agree with what your saying, total honesty is not always a good thing, if I was talking about someone who had died I might with hold some of my opinions and even some facts if they were not going to show the person in a good light, I might say in conversation that I enjoyed food at a friends, but with my partner, total honesty, if her bum looks big in it I will tell her, that is my job as her partner, better she hears it from be before going out than walking out in something that doesn't look right on her, making sure she does look her best, wears the right outfit that she feels comfortable in and that she looks good in, telling her if something she cooks does not taste right.
Would she want me to eat peas soaked in honey that I did not like for the rest of our relationship time together, or would she like me to enjoy what she prepares for me, after all she prepares it for me to please me.
Would she really want to meet her friends or walk through town in something that looked wrong or hear it from someone she loves and trusts, I know what I would want.
As for cheating on partners, personal opinion, scum, there is no excuse for it, married or just in a relationship the words are Respect and Trust, if you don't give it don't expect it back. For better or for worse. Do it if you want that is your business but don't ask me to condone it, forgive it, agree with it, no matter what excuse you give for doing it, a partner deserves better and disrespecting them by cheating on them means that they would be better off without you and finding a person they deserve, no sex at home, talk to them, discuss how you feel, find a solution even if that solution is to tell them that though you love them and want to be with them you cannot live your life without sex and tell them that you will seek sex outside the relationship but only sex not love, if they don't accept it then you have made a mutual decision to part or you stay faithful.
Telling me "at least I am honest" because you admitted you cheated on your partner says you are more honest with me a stranger than someone your supposed to love, trust and respect, I don't want your honesty, I don't want to take something from your partner that they should have not me.
Am I ever dishonest, yes of course I am, am I ever dishonest with my partner, no she deserves my honesty with her in just the same way I deserve and expect her honesty with me.
I live my life in a way I feel comfortable, so yes I might lie to my family saying everything is fine and my health is great even if I am in pain or have a problem that they cannot help with, I might lie to be kind but there is a fine line between being dishonest and deceitful.
Morals are something that differ from individual to individual, your morals are a way of living that you feel comfortable with, someone who attacks an old lady feels comfortable with what they do, in most peoples eyes they are scum but that same person might agree with me in thinking they are fine but paedophiles are scum, me I think they both are. I
In this scenario most would agree with my morals but in lesser situation such as my morals on sex with consenting adults or adultery for example I can only live by my own morals, hard to explain but when something is legal then it is morals that control what we do and nobody can tell us what those morals should be though Governments, Religions and other people do try to tell us. Swinging is a typical example, it is not illegal so what right has someone or something such as the church to tell us not to do it.
Quote by the_magik_s
This is quite a contentious subject now doubt - Honesty. The thing about 'Honesty', is that it can be subjective. People can have different levels of honesty, people can take honesty to mean different things. Some people couldn't give a damn about honesty and some people value it as the most important thing overall.
What does kind of get my goat, is that when this honesty question (or similar) is raised, then all and sundry seem to come out with their judgemental sticks and at times can berate people for their current situation. Now, I'm not saying that this is happening here.. But honesty doesn't just cover the topic of infidelity. There's also a distinct lack of honesty when people fail to put on their profile the fact that they're slightly or seriously unhinged. Or lack of honesty when it comes to pretending to be someone totally different. Or even the lack of honesty when it comes to people hiding behind the 'swinging & NSA' approach, when in actual fact they're looking for love.
Back to the 'cheating' aspect. Well.. Each person has their own reasons as to why they make the decision to keep SH from their partner. You see, very often people judge the individual when there's a distinct lack of info known about that person. Instantly assuming that it's a case of wanting his/her cake and eating it
People can chose how honest they are with their lover, partner, friends or whoever.. It's a pure judgement call on their part. And of course people are allowed to have their own opinions on this. But to judge each other without knowing the facts can be detrimental to a scene such as this. So while it is important to be as honest as possible with someone/people to womb you owe that honesty, it's still just important, if not more so, to be open and honest with anyone who takes the time in their life to get to know you at any particular time . It's in this scenario I feel that a certain amount of respect and honesty is essential.
So yes, of course it's important to be honest with your partner. It would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. But there are soooo many different variables that effect this decision. Such as the lack of happiness in a relationship, open relationships where neither party wants to know what the others doing, relationships that have plenty of love but no sexual desires, or the feeling of being able to totally be yourself amongst swingers, and many many more. Sometimes people just haven't been fortunate enough to meet someone on that same wavelength. You also often here people saying , "well leave your partner then".. Again this presents a load of other variables as to why someone may not want to do this. The point being however, it is for THAT person to decide whether or not they wish to stay in a relationship such as that.
So in my opinion.. We are all adults. We all lead our own individual lives and all make our own individual decisions. If however you chose not to disclose certain details to a partner of sorts then it is essential that you allow that 'other' (lover etc) person to make an informed decision as to whether or not they wish to engage with you in any way.
I just think that for as important as it is not to judge people in certain types of relationships or people that have certain sexual preferences, it is equally as important that we don't overly judge people without knowing anything about them or their situation.
Magik x
Amen to that. In life no one owes you anything. What annoys me most is people who preach. Gah. Nice one Mr Magik ;-)
Quote by MidsCouple24
As for cheating on partners, personal opinion, scum, there is no excuse for it, married or just in a relationship the words are Respect and Trust, if you don't give it don't expect it back. For better or for worse. Do it if you want that is your business but don't ask me to condone it, forgive it, agree with it,
... This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. And sadly quite predictable really. It was a questioned poised by Dee, and a very relevant one given the issues we find on here. Absolutely no one though, is asking you in any way to 'Condone it, forgive or agree' with it, yet you feel the need to act as if this is the case? Further more, brandishing anyone with that different opinion to you as 'scum' only belittles your opinion really. Its a valid opinion of course, but to verbally insult many different people living very different lives, about which you know nothing, is in MY opinion pretty pathetic and a little narrow minded. You say 'That is your business' and then launch an attack on that business?.
The beauty of it all is we are all entitled to our own opinions. Respectfully I take on board your points, But I stand by every word in my previous post above.
M
Casanova
Quote by the_magik_s
There's also a distinct lack of honesty when people fail to put on their profile the fact that they're slightly or seriously unhinged.
Excerpt from my ad: "Hello, I am a curvy horny 39yo woman with a penchant for bunny boiling!" Seriously though, I am not sure why you suggest mental health issues should be disclosed if you're arranging for a one-off or casual meet? Plus I bet most of the people you are describing don't have a clue they're nuts! That's half the problem - but it certainly not dishonesty when one is unaware. (FTR I've never met any "crazy" peeps off this site, but have heard others have).In this light, I think dishonesty has a lot to do with the *intention* to deceive. So yeah, I value honesty. Yeah, I accept that your truth may not be the same as mine. But I still would like "the truth", to the best of your knowledge and understanding.
"Does my bum look big in this?" - dangerous questions beget dangerous answers!
Quote by the_magik_s
womb you owe that honesty
Why yes, gestating it!
Quote by pebble
There's also a distinct lack of honesty when people fail to put on their profile the fact that they're slightly or seriously unhinged.
Excerpt from my ad: "Hello, I am a curvy horny 39yo woman with a penchant for bunny boiling!" Seriously though, I am not sure why you suggest mental health issues should be disclosed if you're arranging for a one-off or casual meet? Plus I bet most of the people you are describing don't have a clue they're nuts! That's half the problem - but it certainly not dishonesty when one is unaware. (FTR I've never met any "crazy" peeps off this site, but have heard others have).In this light, I think dishonesty has a lot to do with the *intention* to deceive. So yeah, I value honesty. Yeah, I accept that your truth may not be the same as mine. But I still would like "the truth", to the best of your knowledge and understanding.
"Does my bum look big in this?" - dangerous questions beget dangerous answers!
Quote by the_magik_s
womb you owe that honesty
Why yes, gestating it!
:lol: Trust me Pebbles, I wasn't referring to actual Mental Health Issues. God, disclosing MH issues on ones profile? could you imagine?! In all seriousness though, I wouldn't joke or make light of MH in that vein. I was just making reference to 'Unhingement' (Yes, I doubt that word actually exists)... you know, when its not quite mental health but you know somethings not quite right?
What you say about 'The Truth', 'Intention' & 'Deception' are very good points. Utter honesty shared with someone can be quite a thing (And very stimulating). Agreed, honesty is of huge value.
As for 'does my bum look big in this'..
First off I guess we should define 'Honesty'... And in what context.
But my take is that given Swinging is (or maybe should be) a part of one's life and not necessarily our WHOLE life then I believe we can be selective in what we disclose in a profile or in personal messages. After all we are looking to meet likeminded people for some sexual encounters of the pleasurable kind (please do correct me if I am wrong) and not writing a CV.
So I think we:
Should say if we are married and playing away without the partner's knowledge.
Should say we are single if we are.
Don't need to say how many kids we have or if we have any.
Do need to be honest about our personal sexuality and preferences.
Do need to explain if we aren't sure about meeting.
Do need to mention any physical disabilities (and before the PC Brigade flame me I mean purely to avoid embarrassing moments for both parties and even abuse)
Now I am lucky in that I have made friends over many years Swinging and most know my life story but I am also aware that is possibly exceptional. Some folks just like to meet up, have a few laughs, have great sex and then jog on. And that is cool.
So in summary my view is that given this is just a part of our lives we only need to be honest about THAT part and no one needs to know anything else. Its none of their business frankly. And being discrete about the rest isn't being dishonest.
But my take is that given Swinging is (or maybe should be) a part of one's life and not necessarily our WHOLE life then I believe we can be selective in what we disclose in a profile or in personal messages. After all we are looking to meet likeminded people for some sexual encounters of the pleasurable kind (please do correct me if I am wrong) and not writing a CV.
So I think we:
Should say if we are married and playing away without the partner's knowledge.
Should say we are single if we are.
Don't need to say how many kids we have or if we have any.
Do need to be honest about our personal sexuality and preferences.
Do need to explain if we aren't sure about meeting.
Do need to mention any physical disabilities (and before the PC Brigade flame me I mean purely to avoid embarrassing moments for both parties and even abuse)
Now I am lucky in that I have made friends over many years Swinging and most know my life story but I am also aware that is possibly exceptional. Some folks just like to meet up, have a few laughs, have great sex and then jog on. And that is cool.
So in summary my view is that given this is just a part of our lives we only need to be honest about THAT part and no one needs to know anything else. Its none of their business frankly. And being discrete about the rest isn't being dishonest.
Quote by the_magik_s
As for cheating on partners, personal opinion, scum, there is no excuse for it, married or just in a relationship the words are Respect and Trust, if you don't give it don't expect it back. For better or for worse. Do it if you want that is your business but don't ask me to condone it, forgive it, agree with it,
... This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. And sadly quite predictable really. It was a questioned poised by Dee, and a very relevant one given the issues we find on here. Absolutely no one though, is asking you in any way to 'Condone it, forgive or agree' with it, yet you feel the need to act as if this is the case? Further more, brandishing anyone with that different opinion to you as 'scum' only belittles your opinion really. Its a valid opinion of course, but to verbally insult many different people living very different lives, about which you know nothing, is in MY opinion pretty pathetic and a little narrow minded. You say 'That is your business' and then launch an attack on that business?.
The beauty of it all is we are all entitled to our own opinions. Respectfully I take on board your points, But I stand by every word in my previous post above.
M
I think people that cheat on their partners are scum, that is my opinion and one I am entitled to have, would you rather I lied about my view of them, or kept stum about it, no I will not, a forum is a place to discuss things, I will not berate someone for believing it to be ok to cheat on partners, I will disagree with them but they are entitled to their opinion too. I did not launch into an attack on them I gave my opinion, should they be on the site, that is their choice, should they do it, that is their choice but I am honest in saying what I personally think about it, this subject comes up all the time in forums and I have said the same thing every time, what they do is their business but if they try to involve me in that business then I have a right and a duty to be honest with them about what I think of it, bringing it into the forums for open discussion is their choice but they have to accept that they will get supporters and those that think it wrong.
And for the record I think the women, couples and single men who knowingly play with those are cheating are scum too. Will my opinion make any difference to them, of course not, why should it, some will support them some will disagree with them, that is life.
As for Judging them, that is another one that comes up all the time, "it is wrong to judge" If Jimmy Saville or Rolf Harris is proven to be guilty of the abuse allegations will you support them or will you judge them, if a man mugs you in the street will you judge him ? if a 60 year old woman has a child will you judge her, or a 50 year old man gets a 16 year old pregnant then leaves her will you judge him ?
We have to be judgmental in society, without judging people it would be wrong to try and convict criminals, it would be wrong to lock up those we consider insane and it would be equally wrong to elect a government, how can we decide anyone is right for a job without judging them ?
Quote by MidsCouple24
As for cheating on partners, personal opinion, scum, there is no excuse for it, married or just in a relationship the words are Respect and Trust, if you don't give it don't expect it back. For better or for worse. Do it if you want that is your business but don't ask me to condone it, forgive it, agree with it,
... This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. And sadly quite predictable really. It was a questioned poised by Dee, and a very relevant one given the issues we find on here. Absolutely no one though, is asking you in any way to 'Condone it, forgive or agree' with it, yet you feel the need to act as if this is the case? Further more, brandishing anyone with that different opinion to you as 'scum' only belittles your opinion really. Its a valid opinion of course, but to verbally insult many different people living very different lives, about which you know nothing, is in MY opinion pretty pathetic and a little narrow minded. You say 'That is your business' and then launch an attack on that business?.
The beauty of it all is we are all entitled to our own opinions. Respectfully I take on board your points, But I stand by every word in my previous post above.
M
I think people that cheat on their partners are scum, that is my opinion and one I am entitled to have, would you rather I lied about my view of them, or kept stum about it, no I will not, a forum is a place to discuss things, I will not berate someone for believing it to be ok to cheat on partners, I will disagree with them but they are entitled to their opinion too. I did not launch into an attack on them I gave my opinion, should they be on the site, that is their choice, should they do it, that is their choice but I am honest in saying what I personally think about it, this subject comes up all the time in forums and I have said the same thing every time, what they do is their business but if they try to involve me in that business then I have a right and a duty to be honest with them about what I think of it, bringing it into the forums for open discussion is their choice but they have to accept that they will get supporters and those that think it wrong.
And for the record I think the women, couples and single men who knowingly play with those are cheating are scum too. Will my opinion make any difference to them, of course not, why should it, some will support them some will disagree with them, that is life.
As for Judging them, that is another one that comes up all the time, "it is wrong to judge" If Jimmy Saville or Rolf Harris is proven to be guilty of the abuse allegations will you support them or will you judge them, if a man mugs you in the street will you judge him ? if a 60 year old woman has a child will you judge her, or a 50 year old man gets a 16 year old pregnant then leaves her will you judge him ?
We have to be judgmental in society, without judging people it would be wrong to try and convict criminals, it would be wrong to lock up those we consider insane and it would be equally wrong to elect a government, how can we decide anyone is right for a job without judging them ?
Oh you have opinions alright.
And have you really just likened 'Jimmy Saville' (A Peodophile), to people who 'cheat' on their partners?!!
Be as judgemental as you want. That's not my style, But as you have the right to your opinion, you also have the right (ish) to be judgemental as you like. Whether that includes brandishing people as scum when you know nothing about them or there situations, well I guess we could debate that all day. Personally I'd say that lacks class.
You have said again "if they try to involve me in their business" as you said last time about not asking you to 'condone it or accept it'. It seems to me you're somewhat paranoid about people forcing their lives on you. As if all cheaters are OUT TO GET YOOOOO !! (Ghosty Sound).
Frankly, your tangent about society, law and order, 60 yr old ladies with children and robbers etc.. Well.. While I see that you're trying to link that to judgemental attitudes, it's still a little bizarre, when you consider what it is we are actually talking about here.
Anyway, disagreements in the forums are inevitable and dare I say it, healthy.
Yours Faithfully
Scum X
I don't see how you can think my opinion of cheaters is wrong and claim to be non-judgemental in the same sentence ?
If you don't think what Jimmy Saville is supposed to have done is as bad as cheating (and I would agree with you) are you not judging ?
Do we not judge which supermarket to use, which school to send our children, what is good to eat and what is not, as humans we are judgemental every day, that is part of our DNA.
Some people do admit that they are cheating on a partner and they are have given me the choice not get involved in what they do, but far more on here do not admit to cheating.
I admit to getting irritated by those cheating and using the swinging scene to do it, firstly it brings swinging into disrepute in a world already taught to judge what we do as wrong and secondly I don't understand why they do it when there are hundreds of websites that cater exclusively to people who are cheating and welcome them with open arms.
Would I ban them from here if I could ? No, it is their choice to be here, their choice to do it, but that doesn't stop me having my opinion about them and I am being honest about my feelings.
Would you condone and applaud their honesty whilst believing my honesty is wrong ?
I wonder how they would feel if they found their partner had a profile on here, I wonder if they would be happy to arrange a meet with my partner and give me their address so that when they meet her I could go round and chat up their partner or vice versa in the case of the women who are cheating.
If you don't think what Jimmy Saville is supposed to have done is as bad as cheating (and I would agree with you) are you not judging ?
Do we not judge which supermarket to use, which school to send our children, what is good to eat and what is not, as humans we are judgemental every day, that is part of our DNA.
Some people do admit that they are cheating on a partner and they are have given me the choice not get involved in what they do, but far more on here do not admit to cheating.
I admit to getting irritated by those cheating and using the swinging scene to do it, firstly it brings swinging into disrepute in a world already taught to judge what we do as wrong and secondly I don't understand why they do it when there are hundreds of websites that cater exclusively to people who are cheating and welcome them with open arms.
Would I ban them from here if I could ? No, it is their choice to be here, their choice to do it, but that doesn't stop me having my opinion about them and I am being honest about my feelings.
Would you condone and applaud their honesty whilst believing my honesty is wrong ?
I wonder how they would feel if they found their partner had a profile on here, I wonder if they would be happy to arrange a meet with my partner and give me their address so that when they meet her I could go round and chat up their partner or vice versa in the case of the women who are cheating.
Quote by the_magik_s
And have you really just likened 'Jimmy Saville' (A Peodophile), to people who 'cheat' on their partners?!!
At the risk of going 'off Thread' I should point out that a) Saville was never convicted of any crimes, b) he is dead and therefore c) he remains innocent. So for you to describe him as a is factually incorrect and in a discussion on 'honesty' maybe we should stick to facts not prejudices?
I in no way defend him, never met him, didn't know him. All I DO know is the Police failed to charge him with alleged crimes when he was alive and could defend himself and have now embarked on a character assassination, driven by the PC brigade and some 'stories' that has cost £Millions. And for what purpose? As Littlejohn in the Daily Mail reminds us "I can safely report that Jimmy Saville remains dead".
Now can we stick to Swinging and the OP?
Quote by MidsCouple24
Some people do admit that they are cheating on a partner and they are have given me the choice not get involved in what they do, but far more on here do not admit to cheating.
I admit to getting irritated by those cheating and using the swinging scene to do it, firstly it brings swinging into disrepute in a world already taught to judge what we do as wrong and secondly I don't understand why they do it when there are hundreds of websites that cater exclusively to people who are cheating and welcome them with open arms.
Would I ban them from here if I could ? No, it is their choice to be here, their choice to do it, but that doesn't stop me having my opinion about them and I am being honest about my feelings.
Excuse my selectively quoting you but I do agree with most of your response. As you say it is just annoying and wrong to meet someone you believe is single and it turns out they are married / with someone. That is basically lying to me and I hate that. I would not judge anyone for 'playing away' as such as that is their business but if we meet it becomes my business. After all I am not here to have an irate husband throwing bricks through my car windscreen (yes it happened). As you infer it is a matter of choice for me / us whether or not we get involved. But we should know in to what we are getting involved surely? I will declare an interest here. I have two lady friends who are married and with whom I play . My choice and their honesty.
I also agree with you if you are saying that we should not ban people who are honest about 'cheating' (if you want to use that label) as it gives us a choice but I would happily ban the liars as they are misleading us as Swingers. And to me Swinging is all about openness and honesty and not being judgmental.
Okay Mids, the thing is mate, you can get as irate as you want. The truth is people don't 'use' the swinging scene to do it, there you go again feeling all 'under attack'. People make relationship choices outside of SH too. Bringing swinging into disrepute? Would you just listen to yourself mate.. You don't OWN the swinging world. It's made up of all sorts of people, from all back grounds, all genders, all of womb each have their own lives to lead and in the way they see fit. We are all adults and make our own decisions.
Anyway look, I feel we've done this to a death now..
Just to be clear, I'm not saying cheating is right. I'm not saying it's moral. I'm not even saying you aren't allowed to not like it. I'm also NOT saying that we don't all judge in some way. I'm just saying that it's utterly preposterous to brandish all that go outside of a relationship as scum. I mean really? Scum? You also said that you feel the people who go with people in a relationship are scum too!.. And without even knowing one single detail about that persons life, what they are like, the situation they are in or what the causes may be. It's THAT kind of judgement, quite frankly I think we can all do without. But as always, I can take on board people's points of view, and I take on board yours.
But, Chish' point of view however?!!. Well, I wasn't even going to respond to that comment. Honestly.. And I choose my words very carefully here. Whilst your comment was factually correct about him not having been found guilty in a court of law, I think you jumping to the defence of Jimmy Saville's reputation is utterly vile and disgusting. To describe the trail of destruction of pain and suffering that Saville left behind as a 'prejudice'? And bleeding on about his 'character assassination'? I mean really?...
It's been an interesting thread. I think I'll bail out of this one at this point.
It's been emotional x
Anyway look, I feel we've done this to a death now..
Just to be clear, I'm not saying cheating is right. I'm not saying it's moral. I'm not even saying you aren't allowed to not like it. I'm also NOT saying that we don't all judge in some way. I'm just saying that it's utterly preposterous to brandish all that go outside of a relationship as scum. I mean really? Scum? You also said that you feel the people who go with people in a relationship are scum too!.. And without even knowing one single detail about that persons life, what they are like, the situation they are in or what the causes may be. It's THAT kind of judgement, quite frankly I think we can all do without. But as always, I can take on board people's points of view, and I take on board yours.
But, Chish' point of view however?!!. Well, I wasn't even going to respond to that comment. Honestly.. And I choose my words very carefully here. Whilst your comment was factually correct about him not having been found guilty in a court of law, I think you jumping to the defence of Jimmy Saville's reputation is utterly vile and disgusting. To describe the trail of destruction of pain and suffering that Saville left behind as a 'prejudice'? And bleeding on about his 'character assassination'? I mean really?...
It's been an interesting thread. I think I'll bail out of this one at this point.
It's been emotional x
Quote by the_magik_s
But, Chish' point of view however?!!. Well, I wasn't even going to respond to that comment. Honestly.. And I choose my words very carefully here. Whilst your comment was factually correct about him not having been found guilty in a court of law, I think you jumping to the defence of Jimmy Saville's reputation is utterly vile and disgusting. To describe the trail of destruction of pain and suffering that Saville left behind as a 'prejudice'? And bleeding on about his 'character assassination'? I mean really?...
It's been an interesting thread. I think I'll bail out of this one at this point.
It's been emotional x
You start off with saying I am factually correct about his innocence and then go off on one! Oh dear talk about misquoting ... Or don't you actually read things through?
My actual words were (and I quote): "I in no way defend him, never met him, didn't know him" so at least flame me with accuracy my friend. Personally I disliked the public man and his persona but that doesn't make him guilty of anything.
Sadly you then peel off into the very prejudice you infer is unfounded and with no facts say I am 'vile and disgusting'? You say "the trail of destruction of pain and suffering that Saville left behind". And not ONE fact has emerged. Just stories and police allegations made knowing they will never be tested in a court of law. What is your proof? If you have none it is pure prejudice and nothing else. You do know what 'prejudice' is and where it comes from? Its from the Latin and means 'pre judging'...go figure! How many Police accusations about well known stars being paedophiles, rapists and molesters have been proved right recently? £Millions spent to make the Police look like they are actually doing something. And then failing.
So flame me by all means but be damn sure you do it with facts and not keep showing your prejudice by flailing about accusing ME of being 'vile and disgusting'. I knew someone would have a PC pop at me and ignore factual debate.
Quote by the_magik_s
Ha ha .. You're using the 'PREJUDGEMENT' of poor Jimmy Saville's antics as a way to discredit the police. That's an intelligent argument.
I said your defence of JS was vile and disgusting, I didn't say you were. #Touchy
Ah so its OK to DO vile and disgusting things and still not BE vile and disgusting. OKaaayyy
Nicely swerved on prejudice ... No I was calling YOU out for being prejudiced which you clearly are judging by your statements about Saville and myself. I was also adding that the Police were hopeless at prosecuting these sort of alleged crimes as we have seen recently with a string of failed cases costing £Millions.
Two distinct points but clearly one too many for you to handle.
Quote by the_magik_s
Okay Mids, the thing is mate, you can get as irate as you want. The truth is people don't 'use' the swinging scene to do it, there you go again feeling all 'under attack'. Who are you to know how I feel ? how can you know how I feel ? Why do you think you are so special as to be able to know how strangers feel yet state that others cannot decide if what cheats do without knowing them ? is this one rule for you and everyone else has to follow your rules ? People make relationship choices outside of SH too. Bringing swinging into disrepute? Would you just listen to yourself mate.. You don't OWN the swinging world. And neither do you, what right do you have to question my opinion, I do not question yours, I have stated and will always believe that you have the right to your opinion, I also believe that is you that feels under threat, you that feels they own the swingers world and personally berate those that have a different opinion to their own instead of stating your own opinion and debating the pro's and cons of your chosen debate. I have not said cheating is wrong, I have not said cheating in swinging is wrong, I have said I believe it is wrong and those that do it are scum, there is a difference between having a personal opinion and imposing that opinion on others or berating those that have a different opinion, many see nothing wrong with cheating and I respect their right to think that, many think they have a valid reason for cheating and I respect their right to think that too. It's made up of all sorts of people, from all back grounds, all genders, all of womb each have their own lives to lead and in the way they see fit. We are all adults and make our own decisions. But apparently if we make a decision to live our life in a way that differs from you we are to be outcast and berated for our beliefs.
Anyway look, I feel we've done this to a death now..
Just to be clear, I'm not saying cheating is right. I'm not saying it's moral. I'm not even saying you aren't allowed to not like it. Yes you are because you have been saying exactly that I'm also NOT saying that we don't all judge in some way. I'm just saying that it's utterly preposterous to brandish all that go outside of a relationship as scum. I mean really? Scum? Sorry are you saying it is ok to think someone is doing something wrong providing how you think of them falls within a category you approve of and that there is only a certain stage of dislike you are permitted to go to ? can you explain this scale to me, perhaps grade them 1. naughty, 2, very naughty, 3. illegal, 4. disgusting, 5. criminal. 6. scummy ............... You also said that you feel the people who go with people in a relationship are scum too!.. And without even knowing one single detail about that persons life, what they are like, the situation they are in or what the causes may be. It's THAT kind of judgement, quite frankly I think we can all do without. But as always, I can take on board people's points of view, and I take on board yours. errr actually you don't as you have stated continuously, and I do know something about these people, I know for example that they are willing to risk the break up of a family, the misery thrust upon children from a break up, the burden on society that can result from the creation of single parenting, the burden on society caused by the cost of court cases, custody cases, etc, the burden incurred by many welfare organisations in helping the victims of relationship break-ups, that many do not care that they are seeing someone in a relationship because it is not their relationship at risk, not their children at risk, not their family, those that do it don't care that it might cause heartbreak to their partners or to the children and for what, for a shag, not even anything so human as to do it because perhaps they miss affection and to feel loved in the way some people who have affairs succumb to the temptation, just for a shag, I do understand why some people have affairs and cheat, humans do need affection, they do need to feel loved and wanted, they do need company and a lack of these could lead to a person seeking it elsewhere, but doing it to meet someone in a hotel or at a club or some other location, shag them then leave, no that I do not understand to be justifiable.
But, Chish' point of view however?!!. Well, I wasn't even going to respond to that comment. Honestly.. And I choose my words very carefully here. Whilst your comment was factually correct about him not having been found guilty in a court of law, I think you jumping to the defence of Jimmy Saville's reputation is utterly vile and disgusting. To describe the trail of destruction of pain and suffering that Saville left behind as a 'prejudice'? And bleeding on about his 'character assassination'? I mean really?...
It's been an interesting thread. I think I'll bail out of this one at this point.
It's been emotional x
Quote by Chish
Ha ha .. You're using the 'PREJUDGEMENT' of poor Jimmy Saville's antics as a way to discredit the police. That's an intelligent argument.
I said your defence of JS was vile and disgusting, I didn't say you were. #Touchy
Ah so its OK to DO vile and disgusting things and still not BE vile and disgusting. OKaaayyy
Nicely swerved on prejudice ... No I was calling YOU out for being prejudiced which you clearly are judging by your statements about Saville and myself. I was also adding that the Police were hopeless at prosecuting these sort of alleged crimes as we have seen recently with a string of failed cases costing £Millions.
Two distinct points but clearly one too many for you to handle.
String of failed cases???
Only William Roache...everyone else is either still awaiting trial or have been found guilty and imprisoned.
And your comment that someone is not guilty because they are dead and haven't stood trial for their crime would also put most spree murderers as innocent, would also put a lot of dictators as innocent as well...
Saville was guilty, its just the incredible level that's so hard to fathom.
Quote by Rogue_Trader
[
String of failed cases???
Only William Roache...everyone else is either still awaiting trial or have been found guilty and imprisoned.
And your comment that someone is not guilty because they are dead and haven't stood trial for their crime would also put most spree murderers as innocent, would also put a lot of dictators as innocent as well...
Saville was guilty, its just the incredible level that's so hard to fathom.
William Roache coronation Street as you say.
Nigel Evans Deputy Speaker?
Michael La Vell Coronation Street?
Dave Lee Travis DJ?
To date only Stuart Hall has been found guilty.
With respect I never said anyone was 'Not Guilty'. I said they were Innocent. As we all are until proven Guilty. And if someone is dead they remain Innocent. That is legal fact unpleasant though it may be to those who believe in someone being guilty if the alleged crime is big enough.
I disliked the Saville persona and as I have said twice I do not seek to defend him. I was just pointing out the error of saying he did all he was alleged to have done. We will never know in legal terms but the conspiracy theorists will have a field day. OK lets make it personal? Say YOU were accused of a 13 year old girl. You never committed the crime. But 'everyone knows you did' ...and just being charged destroys your life. You are still innocent but 'everyone knows...'. How would you feel?
And sorry but Saville was NOT guilty as you say. He was never charged. He was never convicted. Now maybe he SHOULD have been. Maybe he WOULD have been found guilty. But the Police f***ed up and never charged him. Its really that simple.
Quote by Chish
DLT is facing a further 3 charges,
Michael Le Vell wasn't part of Operation Yew tree
Nigel Evans wasn't part of Operation Yew Tree
more have been found guilty, but it has always been a policy of not naming and shaming on SH especially as this is a very contentious and current line of investigation, so best to leave it be.
Quote by Rogue_Trader
A man in Russia was recently found guilty of murder, despite the fact that he himself was dead, many at the time wondered what the point was of taking this man to court (so to speak) perhaps his case highlights a need for the UK to do the same when the CPS believe the evidence is strong enough to bring a conviction even though the defendant cannot be present to defend himself, after all there have been many cases in history where evidence can be overwhelming in cases, does anyone think that Adolf Hitler would be found innocent of the crimes he was accused of if he had been tried after his death at Nuremberg ?
Saville was guilty, its just the incredible level that's so hard to fathom.
William Roache coronation Street as you say.
Nigel Evans Deputy Speaker?
Michael La Vell Coronation Street?
Dave Lee Travis DJ?
To date only Stuart Hall has been found guilty.
So your saying the others have been found "not guilty" or have not yet been tried which means that at this moment in time they are "not guilty" which means we have to consider them as innocent until proven guilty, failure to bring a conviction against anyone means that in the eyes of the law and therefore the eyes of UK citizens they are in fact not guilty of the accusations.
DLT is facing a further 3 charges, Totally innocent until proven guilty
Michael Le Vell wasn't part of Operation Yew tree
Nigel Evans wasn't part of Operation Yew Tree
more have been found guilty, but it has always been a policy of not naming and shaming on SH especially as this is a very contentious and current line of investigation, so best to leave it be.
