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Is this Climate Change Malarky a money making Con or not?
Money making Con or not?
Yes
0%
No
0%
7 votes
Sexpert
Too simplistic a question.
The money is part of it, power, prestige, pride, envy are all wrapped up in too.
If you've ever spent any time around academics, you'll have noted how some of them are incredibly power/prestige hungry. They love to build empires - there's so much petty personal politicking going on in the higher echelons particularly. This can affect their objectivity in their work, with a fanatical desire to be proved right. the money flows from that - personal gain for the protagonists (grants, funding, salaries etc).
Then there is the bandwagoneering - successive geovernments, who don't really give a shit about the effects of man made emissions on the global environment and climate, now had a revenue raising cause they could use to implement draconian controls and financial burdens on their electorates.
Journalists, authors, film makers have all profited too.
Climatologists in the GW Team, were getting to rule the world - seriously, some scientists have big enough ego's to think that they should!
Hence a huge momentum has developed under the Global warming/Climate change movement, so many people have a lot to lose by the explosion of the myth, that they will do almost anything to prevent the real facts coming out as they now have done.
Are the findings of the CRU and thus the government polices implemented as a result of, totally fallacious, unreliable, and with no basis in scientific fact?
An unequivocal yes!
(read the monckton report, check out climate audit, look at the emails, check the graphs against the real data etc etc)
The money is part of it, power, prestige, pride, envy are all wrapped up in too.
If you've ever spent any time around academics, you'll have noted how some of them are incredibly power/prestige hungry. They love to build empires - there's so much petty personal politicking going on in the higher echelons particularly. This can affect their objectivity in their work, with a fanatical desire to be proved right. the money flows from that - personal gain for the protagonists (grants, funding, salaries etc).
Then there is the bandwagoneering - successive geovernments, who don't really give a shit about the effects of man made emissions on the global environment and climate, now had a revenue raising cause they could use to implement draconian controls and financial burdens on their electorates.
Journalists, authors, film makers have all profited too.
Climatologists in the GW Team, were getting to rule the world - seriously, some scientists have big enough ego's to think that they should!
Hence a huge momentum has developed under the Global warming/Climate change movement, so many people have a lot to lose by the explosion of the myth, that they will do almost anything to prevent the real facts coming out as they now have done.
Are the findings of the CRU and thus the government polices implemented as a result of, totally fallacious, unreliable, and with no basis in scientific fact?
An unequivocal yes!
(read the monckton report, check out climate audit, look at the emails, check the graphs against the real data etc etc)
Sex God
con
anyone that bothers to read reports..and look into details....will accept man made global warming is a fact. question really is what we do about it.....and how do we go about reducing the global warming effect by reducing our carbon emmissions.
For me....I think money should be spent on research into green, re-newable energy sources. for example..solar panels are massively expensive..and the cost on installation would take over 30 years of use..before it showed you saveings. However, if these were cheaper..and we all started to use and install them, then that would cut down on all fuel bills and reduce our carbon emmissions in one easy stroke. This would be mostly be seen to have a great effect in places like China and India.
Its no....con....global warming is here....climate change is an effect..and we need to address it..and not just bury our heads in the sand.
For me....I think money should be spent on research into green, re-newable energy sources. for example..solar panels are massively expensive..and the cost on installation would take over 30 years of use..before it showed you saveings. However, if these were cheaper..and we all started to use and install them, then that would cut down on all fuel bills and reduce our carbon emmissions in one easy stroke. This would be mostly be seen to have a great effect in places like China and India.
Its no....con....global warming is here....climate change is an effect..and we need to address it..and not just bury our heads in the sand.
Quote by deancannock
anyone that bothers to read reports..and look into details....will accept man made global warming is a fact. question really is what we do about it.....and how do we go about reducing the global warming effect by reducing our carbon emmissions.
For me....I think money should be spent on research into green, re-newable energy sources. for example..solar panels are massively expensive..and the cost on installation would take over 30 years of use..before it showed you saveings. However, if these were cheaper..and we all started to use and install them, then that would cut down on all fuel bills and reduce our carbon emmissions in one easy stroke. This would be mostly be seen to have a great effect in places like China and India.
Its no....con....global warming is here....climate change is an effect..and we need to address it..and not just bury our heads in the sand.
Can you show us these " facts " as it seems even the experts do not agree on this.
IF this is a fact why would they alter the figures?
Sexpert
Quote by deancannock
anyone that bothers to read reports..and look into details....will accept man made global warming is a fact. question really is what we do about it.....and how do we go about reducing the global warming effect by reducing our carbon emmissions.
For me....I think money should be spent on research into green, re-newable energy sources. for example..solar panels are massively expensive..and the cost on installation would take over 30 years of use..before it showed you saveings. However, if these were cheaper..and we all started to use and install them, then that would cut down on all fuel bills and reduce our carbon emmissions in one easy stroke. This would be mostly be seen to have a great effect in places like China and India.
Its no....con....global warming is here....climate change is an effect..and we need to address it..and not just bury our heads in the sand.
Dean, I'm sorry to be blunt, but you are absolutely and completely wrong!!
Anyone who bothers to read the email, study the data and program code (I've now spent about 50 hours on this since the story broke) will come to the opposite conclusion.
I don't know if this is protocol or not, but I've pasted a summary I wrote on the other thread below:
GnV wrote:
So, "greenhouse" gases are not new...
They've been around for millions of years?
(Me replying)
Absolutely!
If we look at the mega trend - over the last 11,000 years - the earth has been, with large fluctuations, gradually warming as we come out of the last Ice Age.
The ecomentalists sought to hide the fact that there was an unusually high peak in medieval times, so that, by comparison, they could make it look as if a huge amount of warming has occurred in the last 100 years or so, and mega warming (relatively speaking) over the last 50 years or so - the infamous and now discredited Hockey Stick graph. They also tried to hide the fact that in all historical instances of climate change, temperature leads CO2 - i.e. the temperature changes FIRST, then the CO2 levels change (higher when hotter, lower when colder. Therefore, CO2 ABSOLUTELY CANNOT be the cause of climate change - it is a symptom. They further sought to hide the fact that in fact for the last 10 years, global temperatures have been falling (this is almost certainly not a trend, just a minor fluctuation and entirely normal). But because it did not fit with with their fabricated and much touted Hockey Stick prediction, they deliberately changed the figures, so they could continue to point to the Hockey Stick and say it was man's release of additional CO2 through fossil fuel burning, that was causing global temperatures to rise at an alarming rate - when in fact it is doing nothing of the sort.
As far as we can tell from the raw data, the earth is currently still enjoying a gradual warming cycle, as it has been for the last 11,000 years or so, and that the rate of that warming, is, over the long term, unchanged.
I predict that as science and academia wake up to the enormous fraud that has been perpetrated in the name of science, it will be the largest scandal it has ever encountered. It goes right to the core of fundamental scientific principles of the search for truth. These guys wouldn't even release their data and program code that they used to massage the data, for independent scrutiny, so it could be objectively peer reviewed (i.e. checked by other suitably qualified people for it's veracity and accuracy) - another fundamental principle of scientific method. They broke the law by denying legitimate requests for the data and code under the Freedom of Information Act. They used dirty tricks and politicking to discredit anyone who didn't worship their magnificence. They attempted to tamper with the definition of peer reviewing, they sought to prevent publication of any research which contradicted theirs, they sought to influence world policy.
Really, the extent of their crimes is stupefying!!!
Sex God
Con, con, con :twisted:
well..think we seem to have two ends of a muddy stick.....today as quoted at the summit in Copenhagen the earth has warmed up 2.5 degress in the last 25 years.....this is more than the previous 200 years.....think I would call that global warming !! We all accept Co2 holds in heat into the atmosphere.....and the level of Co2 has more than trebled in atmoshere in last 100 years. this is due partly to our output of carbon into the atmosphere..and also not helped by de-forestation that is going on..across the world. We ignore this all at our peril. Water levels are riseing as polar caps melt....either slow this trend down....or we all better learn to live on boats !!
Sex God
Quote by deancannock
well..think we seem to have two ends of a muddy stick.....today as quoted at the summit in Copenhagen the earth has warmed up 2.5 degress in the last 25 years.....this is more than the previous 200 years.....think I would call that global warming !! We all accept Co2 holds in heat into the atmosphere.....and the level of Co2 has more than trebled in atmoshere in last 100 years. this is due partly to our output of carbon into the atmosphere..and also not helped by de-forestation that is going on..across the world. We ignore this all at our peril. Water levels are riseing as polar caps melt....either slow this trend down....or we all better learn to live on boats !!
It is not hard to find eminent scientists who will dispute most of what you have written, I still feel we are being coned big time.
I first became sceptical when the government started to tell me the “Science is settled†on global warming. As science is never settled this was my first indication that foul play was afoot.
the science and declared data supporting the claim of global warming is a pack of manipulated, unequivical lies and total misrepresentations. the actual data of the last 8 to 9 years proves global cooling.
the earth does and the earth has and will, heat up and cool down. mans activity does effect the enviroment and consequently nature, in a marginal way and always has done and always will do. the weather and climate is many, many times more effected by volcanic, sizemic and solar activity and till now, totally unpredictable. always has been and always will be. so what is this climate change fraud all about ? polar bears ? na, the population of polar bears has increased for the last forty years. fact !
binding agreements enforcible in international law to reduce the individuals and nation states carbon footprint will reduce mankinds energy flux density. this will reduce mans ability to harness the power of nature and make 6.7 billion plus people unable to be fed, thereby massively reducing the worlds population through starvation.
the earth does and the earth has and will, heat up and cool down. mans activity does effect the enviroment and consequently nature, in a marginal way and always has done and always will do. the weather and climate is many, many times more effected by volcanic, sizemic and solar activity and till now, totally unpredictable. always has been and always will be. so what is this climate change fraud all about ? polar bears ? na, the population of polar bears has increased for the last forty years. fact !
binding agreements enforcible in international law to reduce the individuals and nation states carbon footprint will reduce mankinds energy flux density. this will reduce mans ability to harness the power of nature and make 6.7 billion plus people unable to be fed, thereby massively reducing the worlds population through starvation.
Quote by Max777
Gulson.....well said my man.
You joining the conspiricy theorists then Kent? conspiracy ? conspiracist ? theory ?
as the world financial crisis developes and it becomes more apparent to you max with its effects, you will need to theorise and examine more deeply why this or that phenomina occurs in order to plan your survival strategy. i dont call people who have been misled over global warming or climate change and who believe the conspiracy that has been railled at them from every medium, conspiracy theorist's.
the fact that kenty has picked up on something that may or may not be convienient to his world veiw and concur with me does not make him or i conspiracy theorists.
independently of me and kenty's consciousness, billions of people around the globe are begining to question their reality. they are beginning to question what they are told and that process is inexorable. kenty and i fundamentally disagree on many issues. how else could or should it be ?
the deterioation of our material condition and our social being will drive us together, mostly shouting and screaming along the way but, eventually, our interests will become common.
conspiracy theorist's ? weapons of mass deception/destruction ? hit cyprus within 30 mins ? dr. david kelly took an overdose then cut his wrists, died, then moved his body, e-mails that prove manipulation and lies, data now destroyed, in afghanistan to protect democracy or catch osama bin liner ? 4 lads got on a ghost train in luton at that was cancelled to blow up london tubes and bus on the very day an exercise was taking place in exactly the same locations ? charles demenzies murder was a mistake ? i have no complete theories about the above, but by questioning and analising the information and explanations we are given by the establishment/media everyday, i become more and more sceptical everyday and that, i think, is healthy.
Sex God
Quote by gulsonroad30664
Gulson.....well said my man.
You joining the conspiricy theorists then Kent? conspiracy ? conspiracist ? theory ?
as the world financial crisis developes and it becomes more apparent to you max with its effects, you will need to theorise and examine more deeply why this or that phenomina occurs in order to plan your survival strategy. i dont call people who have been misled over global warming or climate change and who believe the conspiracy that has been railled at them from every medium, conspiracy theorist's.
the fact that kenty has picked up on something that may or may not be convienient to his world veiw and concur with me does not make him or i conspiracy theorists.
independently of me and kenty's consciousness, billions of people around the globe are begining to question their reality. they are beginning to question what they are told and that process is inexorable. kenty and i fundamentally disagree on many issues. how else could or should it be ?
the deterioation of our material condition and our social being will drive us together, mostly shouting and screaming along the way but, eventually, our interests will become common.
conspiracy theorist's ? weapons of mass deception/destruction ? hit cyprus within 30 mins ? dr. david kelly took an overdose then cut his wrists, died, then moved his body, e-mails that prove manipulation and lies, data now destroyed, in afghanistan to protect democracy or catch osama bin liner ? 4 lads got on a ghost train in luton at that was cancelled to blow up london tubes and bus on the very day an exercise was taking place in exactly the same locations ? charles demenzies murder was a mistake ? i have no complete theories about the above, but by questioning and analising the information and explanations we are given by the establishment/media everyday, i become more and more sceptical everyday and that, i think, is healthy.
inclined to agree :thumbup:
Sex God
Some interesting and *shock* pretty well-balanced points in the above linked article.
Quote by noladreamsbritish brainwashing corporation does'nt provide ballance but ballance is available to you by seeking out opposing bias opinion and ballancing that against the b.b.c. to consider only a for and against veiw provided by the british governments broadcasting arm is nonsensical.
Some interesting and *shock* pretty well-balanced points in the above linked article.
Quote by gulsonroad30664
Gulson.....well said my man.
You joining the conspiricy theorists then Kent? conspiracy ? conspiracist ? theory ?
as the world financial crisis developes and it becomes more apparent to you max with its effects, you will need to theorise and examine more deeply why this or that phenomina occurs in order to plan your survival strategy. i dont call people who have been misled over global warming or climate change and who believe the conspiracy that has been railled at them from every medium, conspiracy theorist's.
the fact that kenty has picked up on something that may or may not be convienient to his world veiw and concur with me does not make him or i conspiracy theorists.
independently of me and kenty's consciousness, billions of people around the globe are begining to question their reality. they are beginning to question what they are told and that process is inexorable. kenty and i fundamentally disagree on many issues. how else could or should it be ?
the deterioation of our material condition and our social being will drive us together, mostly shouting and screaming along the way but, eventually, our interests will become common.
conspiracy theorist's ? weapons of mass deception/destruction ? hit cyprus within 30 mins ? dr. david kelly took an overdose then cut his wrists, died, then moved his body, e-mails that prove manipulation and lies, data now destroyed, in afghanistan to protect democracy or catch osama bin liner ? 4 lads got on a ghost train in luton at that was cancelled to blow up london tubes and bus on the very day an exercise was taking place in exactly the same locations ? charles demenzies murder was a mistake ? i have no complete theories about the above, but by questioning and analising the information and explanations we are given by the establishment/media everyday, i become more and more sceptical everyday and that, i think, is healthy.
Gulsonroad, if you bother to read some of my posts, you will see I'm a global warming sceptic but unlike you I don't believe that every bloody thing is plotted by Zionist bankers with ulterior motives and politicians in their pockets. I object to the term "sheeple" that you use to describe anyone that is not as paranoid as you and to be bloody frank, I'm getting sick to death of seeing the same post being posted time and time again.
Oh and thank you for pointing out my typo error in the spelling of conspiracy.......just wish you'd learn to spell DEBT!!!!
Sex God
Quote by gulsonroad30664british brainwashing corporation does'nt provide ballance but ballance is available to you by seeking out opposing bias opinion and ballancing that against the b.b.c. to consider only a for and against veiw provided by the british governments broadcasting arm is nonsensical.
Some interesting and *shock* pretty well-balanced points in the above linked article.
I consider myself to be a pretty savvy media consumer, thanks. I also understand the remit of the BBC.
However, for a non-scientific bod like me (and I am sure not all of us contributing to this forum are PhD-types
) I thought the article provided some good ideas of the arguments.It was on that basis that I posted it.
That and the fact that this is a public forum... and not just all about the apocryphal conspiracies which abound!
Hey, happy foruming all!
Sex God
Quote by noladreamsbritish brainwashing corporation does'nt provide ballance but ballance is available to you by seeking out opposing bias opinion and ballancing that against the b.b.c. to consider only a for and against veiw provided by the british governments broadcasting arm is nonsensical.
Some interesting and *shock* pretty well-balanced points in the above linked article.
I consider myself to be a pretty savvy media consumer, thanks. I also understand the remit of the BBC.
However, for a non-scientific bod like me (and I am sure not all of us contributing to this forum are PhD-types
) I thought the article provided some good ideas of the arguments.It was on that basis that I posted it.
That and the fact that this is a public forum... and not just all about the apocryphal conspiracies which abound!
Hey, happy foruming all!
Just had to google Apocrypha comes from the Greek word ἀπόκÏυφα, which means those having been hidden away..... Still no idea
Sexpert
Quote by deancannock
well..think we seem to have two ends of a muddy stick.....today as quoted at the summit in Copenhagen the earth has warmed up 2.5 degress in the last 25 years.....this is more than the previous 200 years.....think I would call that global warming !! We all accept Co2 holds in heat into the atmosphere.....and the level of Co2 has more than trebled in atmoshere in last 100 years. this is due partly to our output of carbon into the atmosphere..and also not helped by de-forestation that is going on..across the world. We ignore this all at our peril. Water levels are riseing as polar caps melt....either slow this trend down....or we all better learn to live on boats !!
deano - sorry to re-iterate
wrong, wrong, wrong
the ecomentalists have created the figures showing the rapid rise in the last 25 years, to support their theory and predictions - it's all a fiction.
If you're serious - go back to the source data (several posts to lead you there already).
Examine the program code they used to massage the data - you don't need to be a programmer to understand the programmer's (one of the CRU Team leaders) documentary comments in the code - e.g "fudge factor"
I appreciate you are concerned - as am I, I believe in living a low impact existence (without resorting to living in a cave and subsisting on berries).
But the depth and extent of this whole fraud is massive!!!
I cannot stress enough, this is the biggest scandal the scientific community has ever encountered.
Science and Academia being a lumbering beast, is only just starting to realise the extent of the fraud.
Only the norhern polar ice sheet is waning - this is easily attributable to the precession or "wobble" in the earth's rotation on it's axis.
The Hockey Stick effect (massive temperature rise in the last 50 years), which despite recent revelations, the establishment continues to refer to, is a TOTAL FICTION!!!
Sexpert
Quote by Bluefish2009british brainwashing corporation does'nt provide ballance but ballance is available to you by seeking out opposing bias opinion and ballancing that against the b.b.c. to consider only a for and against veiw provided by the british governments broadcasting arm is nonsensical.
Some interesting and *shock* pretty well-balanced points in the above linked article.
I consider myself to be a pretty savvy media consumer, thanks. I also understand the remit of the BBC.
However, for a non-scientific bod like me (and I am sure not all of us contributing to this forum are PhD-types
) I thought the article provided some good ideas of the arguments.It was on that basis that I posted it.
That and the fact that this is a public forum... and not just all about the apocryphal conspiracies which abound!
Hey, happy foruming all!
Just had to google Apocrypha comes from the Greek word ἀπόκÏυφα, which means those having been hidden away..... Still no idea
This is a weak and insipid attempt by the BBC to belatedly attempt to show that they are prepared to air some of the arguments on both sides.
However, what they have not yet conceded is the damning and unequivocal evidence of fraud perpetuated by the Team at the CRU, as revealed by the public release of emails. data, and program code used by the Team to fabricate their findings and predictions.
They had all the files months ago, as those responsible for the release of this information sent it to all the major media organisations first (that's all of them in the world not just the uk)
Guess what - they sat on it.
So the revealers then released it to the scientific community in general (worldwide) - the bulletin boards are aflame as sane, dedicated, highly qualified scientists, now able to scrutinise the data and processing thereof, are starting to realise the extent of the fraud
al gore recently bought a big fuck off house on the beach in san francisco. he must want to fish pacific lobster in his ground floor cos he says global warming is gona make the the sea rise. he also has shares in goldman sachs carbon tax credit derivitive trading arm. i say again. global warming caused by carbon emissions is a fraud and a scam. the fraud is a lie, the scam is carbon tax credits and forcing poor countries to keep withing carbon emmiting limits will cause mass starvation. if mankind does not at least maintain the present level of energy flux density, billions will starve and thats the intention. carbon trading comes from wall street and the city of london slickers.
Sexpert
Quote by gulsonroad30664
al gore recently bought a big fuck off house on the beach in san francisco. he must want to fish pacific lobster in his ground floor cos he says global warming is gona make the the sea rise. he also has shares in goldman sachs carbon tax credit derivitive trading arm. i say again. global warming caused by carbon emissions is a fraud and a scam. the fraud is a lie, the scam is carbon tax credits and forcing poor countries to keep withing carbon emmiting limits will cause mass starvation. if mankind does not at least maintain the present level of energy flux density, billions will starve and thats the intention. carbon trading comes from wall street and the city of london slickers.
Gulson - I've been focussing on the science, but I'm pretty much with you on your socio economic analysis too.
I heard tonight "from a a mate down the pub" - so obviously unsubstantiated hearsay, that David Bellamy has been saying it's all bollocks for ages, that's why he's never been interviewed, commissioned to make any more wildlife/environment stuff - don't know if this is true - will investigate further when I can be arsed
Sex God
Quote by easyrider_xxx
al gore recently bought a big fuck off house on the beach in san francisco. he must want to fish pacific lobster in his ground floor cos he says global warming is gona make the the sea rise. he also has shares in goldman sachs carbon tax credit derivitive trading arm. i say again. global warming caused by carbon emissions is a fraud and a scam. the fraud is a lie, the scam is carbon tax credits and forcing poor countries to keep withing carbon emmiting limits will cause mass starvation. if mankind does not at least maintain the present level of energy flux density, billions will starve and thats the intention. carbon trading comes from wall street and the city of london slickers.
Gulson - I've been focussing on the science, but I'm pretty much with you on your socio economic analysis too.
I heard tonight "from a a mate down the pub" - so obviously unsubstantiated hearsay, that David Bellamy has been saying it's all bollocks for ages, that's why he's never been interviewed, commissioned to make any more wildlife/environment stuff - don't know if this is true - will investigate further when I can be arsed
This is quite true, I remember hearing him on Jerremy Vine/Radio 2 some time last year :thumbup:
Sexpert
What did he have to say - as far as you can recall?
btw Gulson - I just remembered, Al Gore used a shot of a melting glacier in his film, to highlight the recession of the northern polar ice sheet - it was a good shot - lots of melting ice crashing into the sea.
However, being a twat, he managed to find one of the few glaciers in the Northern hemisphere, which is not receding, it was in fact simply undergoing it's normal spring thaw.
I think he had to issue a formal apology and re-do the film without that shot - apart from anything else, it shows what a bandwagoneer he is
btw Gulson - I just remembered, Al Gore used a shot of a melting glacier in his film, to highlight the recession of the northern polar ice sheet - it was a good shot - lots of melting ice crashing into the sea.
However, being a twat, he managed to find one of the few glaciers in the Northern hemisphere, which is not receding, it was in fact simply undergoing it's normal spring thaw.
I think he had to issue a formal apology and re-do the film without that shot - apart from anything else, it shows what a bandwagoneer he is
Whether they are right or they are wrong, the winners out of all this will be the Worlds Governments.
They will rake in billions of pounds which the taxpayers will fund, and very little of that money raised will actually go to the " cause ". The rest will be swallowed up to accommodate the massive hole in our finances...mark my words.
IF there was conclusive PROOF that climate change was man made, I would obviously change my mind but....not ONE person can prove beyond any doubt that it is man made, if it is happening at all. It is like someone trying to actually prove God exists.
People either believe or they do not, but just like God nobody can prove beyond any doubt it is a fact!
So....if there is not ONE expert that can prove 100% it exists, with all their data and reports and millions spent, then i WILL remain a huge sceptic and say it is no more than a con, and a money making exercise to put money into Governments coffers.
Anyone prove me wrong here? Anyone here can PROVE 100% it is happening?...thought not.
They will rake in billions of pounds which the taxpayers will fund, and very little of that money raised will actually go to the " cause ". The rest will be swallowed up to accommodate the massive hole in our finances...mark my words.
IF there was conclusive PROOF that climate change was man made, I would obviously change my mind but....not ONE person can prove beyond any doubt that it is man made, if it is happening at all. It is like someone trying to actually prove God exists.
People either believe or they do not, but just like God nobody can prove beyond any doubt it is a fact!
So....if there is not ONE expert that can prove 100% it exists, with all their data and reports and millions spent, then i WILL remain a huge sceptic and say it is no more than a con, and a money making exercise to put money into Governments coffers.
Anyone prove me wrong here? Anyone here can PROVE 100% it is happening?...thought not.
