I don't normally support the taking of industrial action but today, I support the firefighters stance on their retirement age absolutely.
Firefighting is an incredibly heavy duty job. That the likes of the Cabinet - sissy boys like Cameron and IDS - think that firefighters just sit around all day doing nothing is self evident in their demand that frontline firefighters should not retire at 55 but should still be expected to scale ladders climb into burning buildings and carry a 12stone dead weight over their shoulders down a ladder in intense heat whilst wearing very heavy fireproof clothing and helmets at the age of 60.
Is it possible that this cynical, morally corrupt government, thinks that by asking firefighters to do this work until they are 60 will mean that, in actuarial terms, many more will die before they are able to draw their pension?
It's an absolute disgrace. Firefighting is a job for young fit men. 55 is an absolute maximum on the front line. Not only does it place the firefighter at risk but also his/her colleagues and the wider public who they do so well to protect.
Perhaps if they more than halved the generous and undeserved package they provide to too many politicians, they may be able to continue to fund firefighters pensions in a correct and sensible way.
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It's an Effin disgrace
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Sex God
Well said !!
J & S
J & S
Sex God
A competent firefighter earns &28,481 without including overtime. When he retires he will have an income of £26,000 from his state and work pension. I'm sure many people wish they could retire and still take home 90% of their working wage.
I don't agree with the strike action, but I do agree that no one should reasonably expect someone in the late fifties to carry out a full range of firefighting duties. But there is another way: promotion and a less physically arduous role.
The fact that we get older and age takes it's toll is well recognised in the armed forces. No Soldier, Sailor or Airman is permitted to join up and serve into their fifties at the basic rank. If they get promoted they are offered a contract extension. If they do not progress then their contract is not extended and they leave the forces. Why not do the same for the fire service.
I don't agree with the strike action, but I do agree that no one should reasonably expect someone in the late fifties to carry out a full range of firefighting duties. But there is another way: promotion and a less physically arduous role.
The fact that we get older and age takes it's toll is well recognised in the armed forces. No Soldier, Sailor or Airman is permitted to join up and serve into their fifties at the basic rank. If they get promoted they are offered a contract extension. If they do not progress then their contract is not extended and they leave the forces. Why not do the same for the fire service.
Quote by Trev
I'm sure many people wish they could retire and still take home 90% of their working wage.
I'll bet.
But would they be willing or even able to do the work these brave men and women do?
Have you ever smelt burning human flesh? It lingers on your nostrils for days/weeks. It's sickening.
Seen a completely charred body? It's gut wrenching and It has you heaving and looking for the nearest hedge but sadly you can't just leave your assigned task as you might in an office environment. You have to deal with it.
How about pulling a decapitated mutilated cadaver out of a burned out car wreck moments after you've eaten your supper?
Someone has to do it and these brave guys/gals do. They are worth every penny in their pension receipts. If those people who wish they could get such a deal they would first have to earn it.
Quote by Trev
But there is another way: promotion and a less physically arduous role.
Not everyone can or wishes to climb the promotional ladder in an organisatIon like the FB, Paramedics or Police. These services need 'doers' and the role of the FB front line manager is an extremely technical one requiring high levels of scientific expertise. Pumping water on to a fire needs technical skills involving pressure levels and heights. Pumping water on to the 'wrong' sort of fire could have explosive results.
It's called the Peter Principle. There are some people that are very good at climbing ladders and acting under orders but promote them beyond their comfort zone and disaster awaits so that option is not always available. Doing that job requires dedication and skill levels all of their own. Not everyone can cope with the mental agility required.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
I'm sure many people wish they could retire and still take home 90% of their working wage.
I'll bet.
But would they be willing or even able to do the work these brave men and women do?
Quote by GnVYes.
Have you ever smelt burning human flesh? It lingers on your nostrils for days/weeks. It's sickening.
Quote by GnVYes
Seen a completely charred body?
Quote by GnVI Know
It's gut wrenching and It has you heaving and looking for the nearest hedge but sadly you can't just leave your assigned task as you might in an office environment.
Quote by GnVOnce again I know.
You have to deal with it.
Quote by GnVNo, because it's a crime scene and removing the evidence is never a good idea.
How about pulling a decapitated mutilated cadaver out of a burned out car wreck moments after you've eaten your supper?
Quote by GnVIt's good to see you have such faith and confidence in the modern fire service.
Someone has to do it and these brave guys/gals do. They are worth every penny in their pension receipts. If those people who wish they could get such a deal they would first have to earn it.
Quote by GnV
But there is another way: promotion and a less physically arduous role.
Not everyone can or wishes to climb the promotional ladder in an organisatIon like the FB, Paramedics or Police. That's the freedom of choice. However if I knew I had to progress to stay in my job I would endeavour to do so. I'm afraid I wouldn't be content with staying in the same job for 42 years without trying to advance myself.
Quote by GnVMost of the physics involved is handled by the driver, who is not a front line manager, just a firefighter. Almost every type of incident is risk assessed in advance anyway, and dynamic assessments are carried out primarily by the front line managers, who have all been promoted above firefighter. The chances of causing an explosion in the way you described is negligible to say the least.
These services need 'doers' and the role of the FB front line manager is an extremely technical one requiring high levels of scientific expertise. Pumping water on to a fire needs technical skills involving pressure levels and heights. Pumping water on to the 'wrong' sort of fire could have explosive results.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
It's good to see you have such faith and confidence in the modern fire service.
You don't?
Have I said that I don't? Please show me where I said this.
What is the biggest disgrace, is this is a back door way, that this government can do mass sackings. They are saying the fire fighters can not draw a pension until 60.....but most importantly they are introducing a fitness test, and if you fail, they can say you are not fit to work and therefore out of a job. Most fire fighters by the age of 40 plus will be struggling with this test. Those over 50 have no chance, unless you super fit !! They know there are not enough office, paperwork jobs to go round, and so this will simply allow them to sack them, without having to pay any redundancy or compensation payments. If you have been a fire fighter since you were 20 years old.....what other job are you going to be able to do when sacked at 50 !!
prison wardens cannot retire until 68 now. think of that one when a young 20 year old prisoner is kicking the hell out of a warden in his 60's because the government raised the retirement date.
when you think the mp behind this has a inflation busting pension and pay rise its a bit of a joke to expect firefighters to except any reduction or change to an employment they signed up too.
you got to be very fit and keep on top of that fitness level and i cannot see someone in their 60's carrying a grown man or woman down a ladder with flames and smoke everywhere.
this is another attack on life savers and a good body of men and women who put their bodies on the line to save us!
when you think the mp behind this has a inflation busting pension and pay rise its a bit of a joke to expect firefighters to except any reduction or change to an employment they signed up too.
you got to be very fit and keep on top of that fitness level and i cannot see someone in their 60's carrying a grown man or woman down a ladder with flames and smoke everywhere.
this is another attack on life savers and a good body of men and women who put their bodies on the line to save us!
Sex God
Quote by GnV
But would they be willing or even able to do the work these brave men and women do?
Have you ever smelt burning human flesh? It lingers on your nostrils for days/weeks. It's sickening.
Seen a completely charred body? It's gut wrenching and It has you heaving and looking for the nearest hedge but sadly you can't just leave your assigned task as you might in an office environment. You have to deal with it.
How about pulling a decapitated mutilated cadaver out of a burned out car wreck moments after you've eaten your supper?
Someone has to do it and these brave guys/gals do. They are worth every penny in their pension receipts. If those people who wish they could get such a deal they would first have to earn it.
Whilst I'm in no way denying firefighters do a fantastic job and I'm not trying to play down just how horrific it can be at times.....It is the career path they choose so they must accept those possibilities....
And having said that I do agree it is wrong to expect them to work until they are 60..
Only a handful are ever going to be able to carry out the required tasks or pass any fitness tests at that age and I do support their industrial action (although they were still answering emergency calls at least in my area anyway) ...
Sex God
Quote by deancannock
What is the biggest disgrace, is this is a back door way, that this government can do mass sackings. They are saying the fire fighters can not draw a pension until 60.....but most importantly they are introducing a fitness test, and if you fail, they can say you are not fit to work and therefore out of a job. Most fire fighters by the age of 40 plus will be struggling with this test. Those over 50 have no chance, unless you super fit !! They know there are not enough office, paperwork jobs to go round, and so this will simply allow them to sack them, without having to pay any redundancy or compensation payments. If you have been a fire fighter since you were 20 years old.....what other job are you going to be able to do when sacked at 50 !!
I'm afraid the ones they been doing on their days off!!
every fire fighter i have ever known and i,ve know a few does alternative work on their days off
edit: however i fully support our firefighters, nurses and police and would never question their worth
as apposed to some other public sector workers who need to really prove their worth
Warming the Bed
Quote by Lizaleanrob
What is the biggest disgrace, is this is a back door way, that this government can do mass sackings. They are saying the fire fighters can not draw a pension until 60.....but most importantly they are introducing a fitness test, and if you fail, they can say you are not fit to work and therefore out of a job. Most fire fighters by the age of 40 plus will be struggling with this test. Those over 50 have no chance, unless you super fit !! They know there are not enough office, paperwork jobs to go round, and so this will simply allow them to sack them, without having to pay any redundancy or compensation payments. If you have been a fire fighter since you were 20 years old.....what other job are you going to be able to do when sacked at 50 !!
I'm afraid the ones they been doing on their days off!!
every fire fighter i have ever known and i,ve know a few does alternative work on their days off
Clearly a pay rise in required as well then.
Sex God
Quote by londoncouple69
What is the biggest disgrace, is this is a back door way, that this government can do mass sackings. They are saying the fire fighters can not draw a pension until 60.....but most importantly they are introducing a fitness test, and if you fail, they can say you are not fit to work and therefore out of a job. Most fire fighters by the age of 40 plus will be struggling with this test. Those over 50 have no chance, unless you super fit !! They know there are not enough office, paperwork jobs to go round, and so this will simply allow them to sack them, without having to pay any redundancy or compensation payments. If you have been a fire fighter since you were 20 years old.....what other job are you going to be able to do when sacked at 50 !!
I'm afraid the ones they been doing on their days off!!
every fire fighter i have ever known and i,ve know a few does alternative work on their days off
Clearly a pay rise in required as well then.
at 28k a year i would say yes
Sex God
Quote by deancannock
What is the biggest disgrace, is this is a back door way, that this government can do mass sackings. They are saying the fire fighters can not draw a pension until 60.....but most importantly they are introducing a fitness test, and if you fail, they can say you are not fit to work and therefore out of a job.
Central government has not implemented a fitness test. Local fire and rescue authorities have, in some areas, introduced fitness tests. There may only be a subtle difference, but it's important to note that not every firefighter in the country is required to carry out the fitness test, which incidentally varies between authorities and doesn't have a national standard.
Sexpert
It maybe a dangerous job, but it's no more dangerous than when they took the job. Nobody forced them at gun point and why is it different to other forms of manual labour? farm labourers, machinists all get older and all work with equipment that can kill either them or others. It may seem unfair and I don't disagree but if you want to pay more in tax then the state might be able to afford for firemen to retire and have full pension, if you don't then don't moan!
Don't blame this government alone for this situation, or the last one but every government since the end of the second world war who have fuelled expectations beyond there power to deliver. If we want better public services and the ability for those being paid for by the state to have a nice life whilst serving the public and after they have retired (early) then put 10 pence more tax on every pound you earn! not a vote winner! If you don't and it seems unfair then you are fooling yourself.
Perhaps we could start raiding neighbouring countries and steeling there treasures to sell on the open market to pay for better public services? but please wake up and smell the coffee, no government for over 60 years that has promised jam tomorrow has ever, ever delivered! quite simply, they can't, it's not in there power, it's in ours, we make your choice and vote accordingly.
Don't blame this government alone for this situation, or the last one but every government since the end of the second world war who have fuelled expectations beyond there power to deliver. If we want better public services and the ability for those being paid for by the state to have a nice life whilst serving the public and after they have retired (early) then put 10 pence more tax on every pound you earn! not a vote winner! If you don't and it seems unfair then you are fooling yourself.
Perhaps we could start raiding neighbouring countries and steeling there treasures to sell on the open market to pay for better public services? but please wake up and smell the coffee, no government for over 60 years that has promised jam tomorrow has ever, ever delivered! quite simply, they can't, it's not in there power, it's in ours, we make your choice and vote accordingly.
Quote by herts
but every government since the end of the second world war who have fuelled expectations beyond there power to deliver.
But in earlier days, it was affordable and Governments of all persuasions needed to attract men into the job given it's nature.
Only power crazy governments since the demise of Thatcher (notably Bliar and Brown) have caused the problems we are now faced with economically. Britain trying to keep up with the Jones's in a corrupt Dubbya Administration they could never hope to match but which cost the Country dear.
Every new government postulates the idea about small government. I remember George Osborne waxing lyrical about it at the Cons conference a couple of years before they were elected.
Maybe they blame the inaction on this front to their coalition partners who have for as long as I can remember been somewhat prolific with tax payers money.
Interesting that now, Ed (!ulrabrite) Megaband is making similar noises in the lead up to the next election.
But don't hold your breath if they get elected...
Quote by deancannock
What is the biggest disgrace, is this is a back door way, that this government can do mass sackings. They are saying the fire fighters can not draw a pension until 60.....but most importantly they are introducing a fitness test, and if you fail, they can say you are not fit to work and therefore out of a job. Most fire fighters by the age of 40 plus will be struggling with this test. Those over 50 have no chance, unless you super fit !! They know there are not enough office, paperwork jobs to go round, and so this will simply allow them to sack them, without having to pay any redundancy or compensation payments. If you have been a fire fighter since you were 20 years old.....what other job are you going to be able to do when sacked at 50 !!
Rare for us to agree dean :thumbup:
so exactly how many times in the working year do they actually 'firefight'? 4 days on then 4 days off, not exactly arduous is it? If they're not fit enough, then retire on a reduced pension. There's enough time in the day to keep fit anyway.
And while I'm on the subject, lets move on to the police and their ludicrously generous package. What other person can join an employer, work 30 years and then get a pension for the next 30+ years, index linked, have no need for qualifications (no degree needed, no A levels, just 5 gcse!) Police officers retire at 50, 50% pension index linked for life, and then go out to work again! How's that for a cushy life!
Yes, jealous. I'm a teacher. I have a degree, essential when I joined. Now teachers start teaching with huge debts, work until at least 66, have worse pensions, worse salaries...................
gone on a bit there. sorry.
And while I'm on the subject, lets move on to the police and their ludicrously generous package. What other person can join an employer, work 30 years and then get a pension for the next 30+ years, index linked, have no need for qualifications (no degree needed, no A levels, just 5 gcse!) Police officers retire at 50, 50% pension index linked for life, and then go out to work again! How's that for a cushy life!
Yes, jealous. I'm a teacher. I have a degree, essential when I joined. Now teachers start teaching with huge debts, work until at least 66, have worse pensions, worse salaries...................
gone on a bit there. sorry.
so exactly how many times in the working year do they actually 'firefight'? 4 days on then 4 days off, not exactly arduous is it? If they're not fit enough, then retire on a reduced pension. There's enough time in the day to keep fit anyway.
And while I'm on the subject, lets move on to the police and their ludicrously generous package. What other person can join an employer, work 30 years and then get a pension for the next 30+ years, index linked, have no need for qualifications (no degree needed, no A levels, just 5 gcse!) Police officers retire at 50, 50% pension index linked for life, and then go out to work again! How's that for a cushy life!
Yes, jealous. I'm a teacher. I have a degree, essential when I joined. Now teachers start teaching with huge debts, work until at least 66, have worse pensions, worse salaries...................
gone on a bit there. ]
and breathe
And while I'm on the subject, lets move on to the police and their ludicrously generous package. What other person can join an employer, work 30 years and then get a pension for the next 30+ years, index linked, have no need for qualifications (no degree needed, no A levels, just 5 gcse!) Police officers retire at 50, 50% pension index linked for life, and then go out to work again! How's that for a cushy life!
Yes, jealous. I'm a teacher. I have a degree, essential when I joined. Now teachers start teaching with huge debts, work until at least 66, have worse pensions, worse salaries...................
gone on a bit there. ]
and breathe
Sex God
Quote by capricornten
so exactly how many times in the working year do they actually 'firefight'? 4 days on then 4 days off, not exactly arduous is it? If they're not fit enough, then retire on a reduced pension. There's enough time in the day to keep fit anyway.
And while I'm on the subject, lets move on to the police and their ludicrously generous package. What other person can join an employer, work 30 years and then get a pension for the next 30+ years, index linked, have no need for qualifications (no degree needed, no A levels, just 5 gcse!) Police officers retire at 50, 50% pension index linked for life, and then go out to work again! How's that for a cushy life!
Yes, jealous. I'm a teacher. I have a degree, essential when I joined. Now teachers start teaching with huge debts, work until at least 66, have worse pensions, worse salaries...................
gone on a bit there. sorry.
Well the standard Gov. policy of divide and rule is working then !!!
Don't pick on other workers just because your not happy with the rewards of your job. Don't whine, do something about it !! Either go on strike and convince people that your profession is worth more money, or quit and find another job. If enough Teachers quit then the Gov would pay more to keep them.
Sex God
Quote by capricornten
>>Stuff<<
Yes, jealous. I'm a teacher. I have a degree, essential when I joined. Now teachers start teaching with huge debts, work until at least 66, have worse pensions, worse salaries...................
gone on a bit there. sorry.
I dont disagree with some of the 'stuff' you say but ... Work a set 8 til 5 5 day week 46 weeks a year before you whinge about other professions. For most workers you have it pretty damned sweet.
Oh and before someone jumps on the "The work teachers do at home is never taken into account and it is the welfare of our children, the future generation, we're talking about" arguement then stop before you start because its bollox.
Sex God
4x12hr days, 4 off, 4x12hr nights, 4 off.
Quote by Capri
so exactly how many times in the working year do they actually 'firefight'?
You'd like them to have to fight more fires then :confused:
It's a bit like insurance. A bloody waste of money until a chemical factory catches fire. Thing is, if they haven't trained for it and maintained their equipment, a drama could turn into a serious crisis.
I believe there have always been many jobs that are physically and emotionally demanding within all sectors. Many of which don't provide pensions. Yet without these jobs being done for us all we wouldn't be able to survive the lifestyle we live today. Some have put their life on the line and died to provide us all. Some even demand being away from home for weeks at a time. These workers also provide taxes to pay all sector workers their pensions.
I think public sector workers are looked after and have it pretty easy in many ways far easier than all those in the private sector.
I believe all are needed to provide services that we all need and use. Why should one sector be treated differently from another?
We all pick our paths in life but we all don't expect to be looked after forever within the paths we choose. Would be very nice if we all were.
I don't want to undermine anyone's role in life. I would like to just see people think about others roles and not to always think of themselves when they have chosen their own path that gets changed by circumstance as often circumstance affects so many other peoples life all of the time when the money isn't there different actions have to take place.
I think public sector workers are looked after and have it pretty easy in many ways far easier than all those in the private sector.
I believe all are needed to provide services that we all need and use. Why should one sector be treated differently from another?
We all pick our paths in life but we all don't expect to be looked after forever within the paths we choose. Would be very nice if we all were.
I don't want to undermine anyone's role in life. I would like to just see people think about others roles and not to always think of themselves when they have chosen their own path that gets changed by circumstance as often circumstance affects so many other peoples life all of the time when the money isn't there different actions have to take place.
Sex God
Quote by Theladyisaminx
I believe there have always been many jobs that are physically and emotionally demanding within all sectors. Many of which don't provide pensions. Yet without these jobs being done for us all we wouldn't be able to survive the lifestyle we live today. Some have put their life on the line and died to provide us all. Some even demand being away from home for weeks at a time. These workers also provide taxes to pay all sector workers their pensions.
I think public sector workers are looked after and have it pretty easy in many ways far easier than all those in the private sector.
I believe all are needed to provide services that we all need and use. Why should one sector be treated differently from another?
We all pick our paths in life but we all don't expect to be looked after forever within the paths we choose. Would be very nice if we all were.
I don't want to undermine anyone's role in life. I would like to just see people think about others roles and not to always think of themselves when they have chosen their own path that gets changed by circumstance as often circumstance affects so many other peoples life all of the time when the money isn't there different actions have to take place.
:thumbup: always a pleasure to read your posts lady
and ermm welcome back to the forums
