He is the Austrian guy who locked up his daughter and had children with her. It wasn't discussed when it was first discovered, on SH. But maybe now that the trial has begun, there might be room for a debate on the matter. Or maybe its just so out there its impossible to say anything on it.
I think the guy was mad for a long time, cold and calculating. But how was it possible to do something like this, right within a small town? Didn't anyone suspect things? Apparently some of the children were allowed to live outside of the bunker and even went to school I think. It's amazing that they were able to hide things for so long.
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Josef Fritzl
Orgasminator
Not only should this sick individual be locked up for the rest of his days he should also have his cock chopped off
Quote by Miss_B_Having
Not only should this sick individual be locked up for the rest of his days he should also have his cock chopped off
nooooo miss b... thats far too good :shock: :shock:
he is austrian isnt he !!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock:
just take away his apfell strudell..... :shock:
that should do the trick :shock:
even arnie says he cant do without it and he is austrian
:D :D steve
Something I have noticed; is that with some other horrific crimes, there is some kind of education on the subject. This includes the scientific and psychological knowledge. Such that given time and some association people feel that they can form opinions, and this leads onto itelligent debate.
Imprisoning people as a crime is not unknown, but its not something we get educated about in any detail. In comparison to the plethora of stuff about child abuse.
So I wasn't sure how to go about this thread, but it seems that I am still unable to comprehend what has happened. What are the characteristics for such things?
Is there the possibility that the hidden family and the father somehow formed a relationship, that sustained this nightmare. Is this kind of thing easy to do once its got under way?
So if there is anyone out there who can offer up some expertise on this, I'd be interested. I suppose references like Terrty Waite might shed some light on the basics of imprisonment. Indeed it might alter people's perceptions of legalised imprisonment and its implications.
Imprisoning people as a crime is not unknown, but its not something we get educated about in any detail. In comparison to the plethora of stuff about child abuse.
So I wasn't sure how to go about this thread, but it seems that I am still unable to comprehend what has happened. What are the characteristics for such things?
Is there the possibility that the hidden family and the father somehow formed a relationship, that sustained this nightmare. Is this kind of thing easy to do once its got under way?
So if there is anyone out there who can offer up some expertise on this, I'd be interested. I suppose references like Terrty Waite might shed some light on the basics of imprisonment. Indeed it might alter people's perceptions of legalised imprisonment and its implications.
Sex God
Duncan,
In many circumstances of imprisonment, especially over a lengthy period of time, a relationship does form between the imprisoner and the imprisoned. In it's early stages it can be akin to the "Stockholm Syndrome" where prisoners actually start to feel empathy towards their captors and may even start to believe that their cause is right and just. This can happen after just a few short hours or days, so what the Fritzl girl went through over years must be thousands of times the power of that.
The human psyche is a powerful tool and it's strength comes from it's adaptability. What seems horrific to us, would have, in time, quickly become the norm for this girl. As such her reactions to it would not be as severe. This would allow her, in what her view of normality was, form a relationship which made things as easy for her and her children as possible. It is only when she is removed from this situation that she can start to perceive how what was normal for her, was actually far from normal. A bit like how victims of domestic abuse don't see it while they are in that situation, but out of it given time to recover and reflect they cannot believe what they let pass as "normal" behaviour.
As for the imprisonment, again this is a case not just of physical imprisonment, but mental too. Infact it can be argued mental imprisonment is a stronger tool by which to hold victims. Fritzl will have broken the will of the girl early on and in effect she will have been reliant on him for almost everything and he will have engendered these beliefs and fostered negative self-image, self esteem in the girl so that she feels she is only worthy of this situation. In doing this he ensures her bond to him, however twisted it may be, is stronger than her will to break free. Once the balance has shifted like that, he probably could, and I would guess, did leave the door open for her to possibly escape, but she would have chosen not to do so. It sounds crazy but there is evidence that this DOES happen. There was one American serial killer who used to control his captives so effectively, he used to take them to McDonalds with him, or allow them to go shopping and they would come back to him.
The physical imprisonment of the Fritzl girl was relatively easy to sort out. It is the mental imprisonment she has suffered which may well never be fully resolved. She will heal, in her own way, but leading a normal life will be extraordinarily difficult for her. Her life was always about being controlled and now having control herself may well be frightening for her. She will need inordinate levels of support and therapy to even begin to adjust.
The characteristics of an offender like Fritzl tend to be sketchy. There's no one quite like him and I bet all the Profilers are desperate to get him one on one for an interview. It is obvious he had a controlling personality and I think it was the control over another human being that fed his needs, both sexual and social. I'm guessing he found interaction with stronger women stressful, that probably he had a domineering mother an absent or abusive father. He will have some history of sexual deviancy in his past, probably and he will probably be unable to get aroused without having the "controlling" influence over a woman. Cruelty towards animals in childhood and bedwetting into late childhood are also other pointers. He will also be highly intelligent, meticulous and careful in his planning. He may also even have narcissitic tendencies and certainly a superiority attitude towards most people. He will not have been a loner. He will be able to socialise happily amongst peers, respected by many but he will have kept his private life private. His wife served more as a useful tool for deception for him than as a partner in the normal sense. It promoted the idea of them as a "normal" couple and provided the perfect front to hide behind. He also controlled her completely too, of that I am entirely certain.
I feel like Hannibal Lecter now... so I'll shut up...
In many circumstances of imprisonment, especially over a lengthy period of time, a relationship does form between the imprisoner and the imprisoned. In it's early stages it can be akin to the "Stockholm Syndrome" where prisoners actually start to feel empathy towards their captors and may even start to believe that their cause is right and just. This can happen after just a few short hours or days, so what the Fritzl girl went through over years must be thousands of times the power of that.
The human psyche is a powerful tool and it's strength comes from it's adaptability. What seems horrific to us, would have, in time, quickly become the norm for this girl. As such her reactions to it would not be as severe. This would allow her, in what her view of normality was, form a relationship which made things as easy for her and her children as possible. It is only when she is removed from this situation that she can start to perceive how what was normal for her, was actually far from normal. A bit like how victims of domestic abuse don't see it while they are in that situation, but out of it given time to recover and reflect they cannot believe what they let pass as "normal" behaviour.
As for the imprisonment, again this is a case not just of physical imprisonment, but mental too. Infact it can be argued mental imprisonment is a stronger tool by which to hold victims. Fritzl will have broken the will of the girl early on and in effect she will have been reliant on him for almost everything and he will have engendered these beliefs and fostered negative self-image, self esteem in the girl so that she feels she is only worthy of this situation. In doing this he ensures her bond to him, however twisted it may be, is stronger than her will to break free. Once the balance has shifted like that, he probably could, and I would guess, did leave the door open for her to possibly escape, but she would have chosen not to do so. It sounds crazy but there is evidence that this DOES happen. There was one American serial killer who used to control his captives so effectively, he used to take them to McDonalds with him, or allow them to go shopping and they would come back to him.
The physical imprisonment of the Fritzl girl was relatively easy to sort out. It is the mental imprisonment she has suffered which may well never be fully resolved. She will heal, in her own way, but leading a normal life will be extraordinarily difficult for her. Her life was always about being controlled and now having control herself may well be frightening for her. She will need inordinate levels of support and therapy to even begin to adjust.
The characteristics of an offender like Fritzl tend to be sketchy. There's no one quite like him and I bet all the Profilers are desperate to get him one on one for an interview. It is obvious he had a controlling personality and I think it was the control over another human being that fed his needs, both sexual and social. I'm guessing he found interaction with stronger women stressful, that probably he had a domineering mother an absent or abusive father. He will have some history of sexual deviancy in his past, probably and he will probably be unable to get aroused without having the "controlling" influence over a woman. Cruelty towards animals in childhood and bedwetting into late childhood are also other pointers. He will also be highly intelligent, meticulous and careful in his planning. He may also even have narcissitic tendencies and certainly a superiority attitude towards most people. He will not have been a loner. He will be able to socialise happily amongst peers, respected by many but he will have kept his private life private. His wife served more as a useful tool for deception for him than as a partner in the normal sense. It promoted the idea of them as a "normal" couple and provided the perfect front to hide behind. He also controlled her completely too, of that I am entirely certain.
I feel like Hannibal Lecter now... so I'll shut up...
Its hard for "us normals" to comprehend ..... but it isnt uncommon for Paedophiles to imprison and systematically abuse , as Fritzl seems to have done.
Im sure for those who are interested, that the details and possible reasons will become clear at the conclusion of the case.
Sick isnt it???
Im sure for those who are interested, that the details and possible reasons will become clear at the conclusion of the case.
Sick isnt it???
Sex God
Quote by Resonance
Res says good stuff here
Just to add a little here. Something that might not be recognised outwardly but certainly is a factor worth consideration and contemplation is that the victims lives may now be considerably worse than they were.
As Res suggests this is because of the cultivation of their identity and how they perceive themselves and the years of their lives so far to themselves being 'normal', it is however unfortunate and sad but quite possible that their lives will be more difficult post Fritzl.
Any psychological rehabilitation is going to be a massive task and more than like as not lifelong and never quite complete. How can it be when these family members will always end up asking why and in the end no one and quite possibly not even Fritzl can give them the answer.
I for one would love to listen to what Fritzl has to say. terrifyingly interesting and as they say "Truth can be stranger than fiction"
Forum Virgin
As far as I know the 'upstairs' family didn't know anything about the 'downstairs' family.
Each time she had one of the 'upstairs' children, her father said that he had found the baby on the doorstep. He said that she had run away to be in a cult, and only came back to drop off her 'unwanted' children.
Supposedly, her mother and the 3 'normal' children knew nothing about them being in the basement.
I'm open to correction.
Each time she had one of the 'upstairs' children, her father said that he had found the baby on the doorstep. He said that she had run away to be in a cult, and only came back to drop off her 'unwanted' children.
Supposedly, her mother and the 3 'normal' children knew nothing about them being in the basement.
I'm open to correction.
It was sad to hear that out of all the 'basement family', they only reckon that the youngest (5 year old, i think) will stand the best chance of leading a fairly normal life, as he is so young.
The others its feared will be to emotional and mentally scarred to have a hope of that because of what theyve endured and witnessed, as well as what theyve been missing out on, such as sounds, the colur of the sky, rustling trees and so on.
Its estimated that it will take up to 8 years of intensive therapy to help them rebuild their broken minds and pyches.
The others its feared will be to emotional and mentally scarred to have a hope of that because of what theyve endured and witnessed, as well as what theyve been missing out on, such as sounds, the colur of the sky, rustling trees and so on.
Its estimated that it will take up to 8 years of intensive therapy to help them rebuild their broken minds and pyches.
