M6 toll road

31 Aug 2010

I saw on the news this morning that the M6 toll road has made no difference to congestion. Is that a surprise really? People wont use a road they have to pay for unless they really have to save time.
Why, when we pay road tax, do private companies get away with charging us to use their roads as well? How is that even allowed?
My feeling is it should be one or the other but not both.
Should we have road tax only or tolls on motorways and major roads like in other parts of the world?

31 Aug 2010

Road Tax and that should be based on milage - why should people like my my Mum who drives max 1000 a year (more like 500), have to pay the same as a travelling salesman who drives 20,000 a year?
I only used the M6 toll once and that was a) by accident and b) on a work trip so they paid for it in the end. I won't use it on principle. If they really wanted to use it to reduce congestion on other roads it would have been free. Since it isn't free, it is clearly no more than a private enterprise attempting to make a profit.
In other countries your Insurance, Road Tax and MOT (equivalents) are all bunched together in one yearly thing and is indicated on the number plate which is renewed each year. It isn't hard and could take annual milage and vehicle age/emmisions into account very easily.

31 Aug 2010

Quote by foxylady2209
Road Tax and that should be based on milage - why should people like my my Mum who drives max 1000 a year (more like 500), have to pay the same as a travelling salesman who drives 20,000 a year?

Well, it isn't quite as simple as that is it.
The RFL can be basically likened to the standing charge on your electricity bill. You then pay duty and VAT on the duty (a tax on tax!) for the fuel you use which is based on the distance you travel and proportional to how economical the engine is.
That's a fair principle isn't it? (but I'm not saying that the amount you pay in tax is, if you see what I mean!)

31 Aug 2010

Building new roads doesn't improve congestion.
Investment in public transport does.
Unfortunately our love affair with the motor car blinds us to these facts.
We need to wake up and smell the petrol fumes.
I do think infrastructure, be it roads or anything else ought to belong to everybody.

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
I do think infrastructure, be it roads or anything else ought to belong to everybody.

We used to have a neighbour who thought that too. Wired his remote farmhouse up to the national grid bypassing the meter until the Eastern Electricity found him out wink

Turned out he'd been doing it for years!
I don't think the Magistrate saw it the neighbours way either...

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
Building new roads doesn't improve congestion.
Investment in public transport does.
Unfortunately our love affair with the motor car blinds us to these facts.
We need to wake up and smell the petrol fumes.
I do think infrastructure, be it roads or anything else ought to belong to everybody.

It does short term. The rapidly increasing number of cars puts the situation back to square one each time though. So it's perhaps not a viable long term solution.
But the point here was whether or not we should have to pay to use these new roads. The congestion hasn't been improved by the M6 extention because nobody wants to pay extra to use it. So its almost always an empty road. If it were, as all other motorways are, free, the congestion on the surrounding area would be releived massivley.

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
Building new roads doesn't improve congestion.
Investment in public transport does.
Unfortunately our love affair with the motor car blinds us to these facts.
We need to wake up and smell the petrol fumes.
I do think infrastructure, be it roads or anything else ought to belong to everybody.

It isn't 'us' that are blinded by the love of cars. Public transport is, at best, poor and for the majority of potential users - utterly useless.
For me to get to town it is, a 10 minute walk, a 20 minute wait, a bus ticket that costs twice what 3 hours parking costs, another 10 minute walk to get to the shops (that have a car park right below them), drag your shopping back to the bus stop, bounce around for 40 minutes trying to hold onto your shopping, and a final 10 minute walk home. Even without rain, sleet and winds - give me a reason NOT to use my car.
There is no bus at all that gets me to work (which has a car-park enough for all employees to use) - I have to bus into town (as above), walk to a different place entirely, get another bus back out to my work. And repeat that at that at the end of a day working. Again - give me a reason not to use my car?

31 Aug 2010

In my experience, its the people who don't work who try to impose their unrealistic ideals about the benefits (!) of public transport on those who do...

31 Aug 2010

GnV
Public transport, in the main in rural areas, what public transport
A car is the only option in many parts

31 Aug 2010

Quote by HnS
GnV
Public transport, in the main in rural areas, what public transport
A car is the only option in many parts

Precisely my point HnS :thumbup:

31 Aug 2010

Quote by foxylady2209
Building new roads doesn't improve congestion.
Investment in public transport does.
Unfortunately our love affair with the motor car blinds us to these facts.
We need to wake up and smell the petrol fumes.
I do think infrastructure, be it roads or anything else ought to belong to everybody.

It isn't 'us' that are blinded by the love of cars. Public transport is, at best, poor and for the majority of potential users - utterly useless.
For me to get to town it is, a 10 minute walk, a 20 minute wait, a bus ticket that costs twice what 3 hours parking costs, another 10 minute walk to get to the shops (that have a car park right below them), drag your shopping back to the bus stop, bounce around for 40 minutes trying to hold onto your shopping, and a final 10 minute walk home. Even without rain, sleet and winds - give me a reason NOT to use my car.
There is no bus at all that gets me to work (which has a car-park enough for all employees to use) - I have to bus into town (as above), walk to a different place entirely, get another bus back out to my work. And repeat that at that at the end of a day working. Again - give me a reason not to use my car?
Derby does however have an excellent network of cycle paths and is quite flat

31 Aug 2010

If fuel was not already over taxed, I would like to see the road tax added to fuel

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Building new roads doesn't improve congestion.
Investment in public transport does.
Unfortunately our love affair with the motor car blinds us to these facts.
We need to wake up and smell the petrol fumes.
I do think infrastructure, be it roads or anything else ought to belong to everybody.

It isn't 'us' that are blinded by the love of cars. Public transport is, at best, poor and for the majority of potential users - utterly useless.
For me to get to town it is, a 10 minute walk, a 20 minute wait, a bus ticket that costs twice what 3 hours parking costs, another 10 minute walk to get to the shops (that have a car park right below them), drag your shopping back to the bus stop, bounce around for 40 minutes trying to hold onto your shopping, and a final 10 minute walk home. Even without rain, sleet and winds - give me a reason NOT to use my car.
There is no bus at all that gets me to work (which has a car-park enough for all employees to use) - I have to bus into town (as above), walk to a different place entirely, get another bus back out to my work. And repeat that at that at the end of a day working. Again - give me a reason not to use my car?
Derby does however have an excellent network of cycle paths and is quite flat
Fine for the recreational cycler. Or are you suggesting I cycle 10 miles to work - in a phrase - fuck off. And what about my shopping? Drag it behind me on that 10 mile ride on a trolley or something? get real - I'm 45 years old and do not find any pleasure in killing myself or being killed on a bike. If you cycle - do you cycle to the supermarket and cycle back with 6 carrier bags of stuff?

31 Aug 2010

I'm 46 ....I frequently cycle the 7/8 miles to work and back ....it's a bit hillier in Sheffield,oh and yes I have done a shopping trip by bike...you just make more trips for less stuff...you can even fit it into the commute

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I'm 46 ....I frequently cycle the 7/8 miles to work and back ....it's a bit hillier in Sheffield,oh and yes I have done a shopping trip by bike...you just make more trips for less stuff...you can even fit it into the commute

Why? Seriously - why cycle to work of all places when (presumably) driving is a perfectly sensible option. In my case I don't enjoy work so much that I want to increase the anticipation by taking 2 hours to get there. My boss isn't worth that much to me.
Don't get me wrong, a bike ride is ok - with no time pressure, max 2 miles each way with a pub at the end - but it isn't exactly enjoyable as a mode of transport.

31 Aug 2010

Bicycles should be banded from many busy roads! They are a danger to them selves and other road users.

31 Aug 2010

problem with building roads is there 10 years out of date by the time there built
i use the m6 toll road when i got to manchester i find it cuts the journey time and the traffic is always moving
and just how many housewives with 3 children could get a weeks shopping on a bus now days dunno

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
Bicycles should be banded from many busy roads! They are a danger to them selves and other road users.

As are cars, buses, lorries, motorbikes and any other road user who is capable of causing or being involved in a crash.....the answer is a little more patience from all road users..or reduce the traffic by using your bike

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
Bicycles should be banded from many busy roads! They are a danger to them selves and other road users.

:thumbup:
There is a cycle group in the area and they regularly have time trial races up and down the local MAIN ROAD!!!!!! They have zero regard for the rules of the road, swinging round the roundabouts without a look, pause or even a signal. They overtake each other - again without signals or in fact any acknowldgement of the tonnes of cars, lorries and buses attempting to use the road safely and legally. They are, quite simply, a bloody menace. And guess who'se fault it would be if one of them got wiped out while carrying out one of their 'maneouvers'.
There have been moves to get this ridiculous 'event' banned from the roads and moved onto a more suitable location like a small airfield or industrial estate where the other traffic can be stopped for the duration. It's a race for crying out loud - and no race has a justification for happening on a busy main road.
Cycles need cycle paths, along all main roads and they need to cycle sensibly, wherever they go. I know most do - it's not the majority that are the problem. It only takes one to ruin my life forever - and yes it is MY life I am concerned for. If they want to fly out of a Give Way junction without looking or giving way, so be it - just one of many ways to commit suicide - but not in front of MY car please.

31 Aug 2010

Quote by foxylady2209
I'm 46 ....I frequently cycle the 7/8 miles to work and back ....it's a bit hillier in Sheffield,oh and yes I have done a shopping trip by bike...you just make more trips for less stuff...you can even fit it into the commute

Why? Seriously - why cycle to work of all places when (presumably) driving is a perfectly sensible option. In my case I don't enjoy work so much that I want to increase the anticipation by taking 2 hours to get there. My boss isn't worth that much to me.
Don't get me wrong, a bike ride is ok - with no time pressure, max 2 miles each way with a pub at the end - but it isn't exactly enjoyable as a mode of transport.
I cycle because I enjoy the journey (most of the time)..the destination doesn't really matter...and 10 miles on those nice flat safe Derby cyclepaths...I'd reckon on about 3/4 of an hour to start.
P.S. It is often quicker for me to cycle to work than use the car....I never get stuck in traffic on the bike

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I cycle because I enjoy the journey (most of the time)..the destination doesn't really matter...and 10 miles on those nice flat safe Derby cyclepaths...I'd reckon on about 3/4 of an hour to start.
P.S. It is often quicker for me to cycle to work than use the car....I never get stuck in traffic on the bike

Takes me 25 mins to drve to work and I can go to Asda in the way home. You and I obviously differ - you find cycling in itself enjoyable, I don't. It's effort for nothing. And I don't like to waste energy. I save it for stuff I enjoy, like my allotment. dunno

The world would be boring if we were all the same. biggrin

31 Aug 2010

Save me from poor innocent sainted drivers....cyclists are no more guilty of breaking the rules of the road than drivers it's just that drivers tend to cause more damage when they fuck up....I am both a cyclist and driver I try to obey the law whilst doing both ...I like everyone else occasionally fail...I would rather take the risk with my life on the bike than with someone elses in the car
P.S. not in response to the very polite answer above.....I would have quoted the post but didn't want to bore anybody in the process lol

31 Aug 2010

Cyclists should be forced to pay for their road usage anyway....
They are a bloody nuisance.

31 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Cyclists should be forced to pay for their road usage anyway....
They are a bloody nuisance.

We do Ken...like drivers we pay an amount related to how much we pollute,how much we damage the road,how much congestion we cause........go on guess...no go on....go on...you know you want to...oh alright I'll tell you ....... ......I do pay tax for the car though...perhaps I should ask for some back ,for the days I cycle..........*wonders off to DVLC web-site*

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Save me from poor innocent sainted drivers....cyclists are no more guilty of breaking the rules of the road than drivers it's just that drivers tend to cause more damage when they fuck up....I am both a cyclist and driver I try to obey the law whilst doing both ...I like everyone else occasionally fail...I would rather take the risk with my life on the bike than with someone elses in the car
P.S. not in response to the very polite answer above.....I would have quoted the post but didn't want to bore anybody in the process

Dont think anyone said that?
But as my mum would have said, if the cap fits wink

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
Bicycles should be banded from many busy roads! They are a danger to them selves and other road users.

There is more than a hint of an inkling of the concept here I think blue

Quote by foxylady2209
There is a cycle group in the area and they regularly have time trial races up and down the local MAIN ROAD!!!!!! They have zero regard for the rules of the road, swinging round the roundabouts without a look, pause or even a signal. They overtake each other - again without signals or in fact any acknowldgement of the tonnes of cars, lorries and buses attempting to use the road safely and legally. They are, quite simply, a bloody menace. And guess who'se fault it would be if one of them got wiped out while carrying out one of their 'maneouvers'.
There have been moves to get this ridiculous 'event' banned from the roads and moved onto a more suitable location like a small airfield or industrial estate where the other traffic can be stopped for the duration. It's a race for crying out loud - and no race has a justification for happening on a busy main road.
Cycles need cycle paths, along all main roads and they need to cycle sensibly, wherever they go. I know most do - it's not the majority that are the problem. It only takes one to ruin my life forever - and yes it is MY life I am concerned for. If they want to fly out of a Give Way junction without looking or giving way, so be it - just one of many ways to commit suicide - but not in front of MY car please.

And here
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

31 Aug 2010

Honest building more roads doesn't solve congestion. Don't matter if they are free or tolls.
The only thing that solves congestion is fewer private vehicles.
The easiest way to reduce private vehicle use is the provision of decent public transport.
The first step for improving public transport is school buses. After that you just tax the hell out of motorists to fund investment. Its gonna happen anyway as the oil runs out I reckon.

31 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Cyclists should be forced to pay for their road usage anyway....
They are a bloody nuisance.

You'll be suggesting they have to pay for parking next... oh and whilst you're at it why not introduce tolls on pavements? Prams & shopping trolleys will be charged on how many axles they have and how much weight they are carrying.
Pedestrian -
Pedestrian & shopping trolley -
Pedestrian & pram -
Pedestrian & twin pram -
In addition, anyone over a certain weight and width will be required to wear abnormal load signs on the front and rear.
Tolls will be used to pay off the deficit. Britain can walk its way out of debt!

31 Aug 2010

Quote by spideyuk
Cyclists should be forced to pay for their road usage anyway....
They are a bloody nuisance.

You'll be suggesting they have to pay for parking next... oh and whilst you're at it why not introduce tolls on pavements? Prams & shopping trolleys will be charged on how many axles they have and how much weight they are carrying.
Pedestrian -
Pedestrian & shopping trolley -
Pedestrian & pram -
Pedestrian & twin pram -
In addition, anyone over a certain weight and width will be required to wear abnormal load signs on the front and rear.
Tolls will be used to pay off the deficit. Britain can walk its way out of debt!
I get the impression your not taking things entirely seriously :giggle:

31 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Cyclists should be forced to pay for their road usage anyway....
They are a bloody nuisance.

We do Ken...like drivers we pay an amount related to how much we pollute,how much we damage the road,how much congestion we cause........go on guess...no go on....go on...you know you want to...oh alright I'll tell you ....... ......I do pay tax for the car though...perhaps I should ask for some back ,for the days I cycle..........*wonders off to DVLC web-site*
You left out the most important one............the accidents they cause!
I wonder if people have any idea what happens if a cyclist either causes you to crash or actually hits and damages your car.
With NO insurance the scene of getting any money out the arses is near impossible.
IF anyone uses the road they should at the very least have third party insurance to cover any problems.
Just like the toll road NOBODY forces you to use a car or to use the toll road.
If anyone is that bothered by the damage a car does, how hypocritical to then use one.........cycle everywhere or get one of those big things called a .........bus!

What would you prefer us to have?