Well after all the years and years of dithering over immigration it seems that David Cameron is at last doing something constructive, probably in view of the unknown numbers about to enter the UK later this year from Bulgaria and Romania.
I was always under the impression from many sources that immigrants did not jump the queues with regards to housing, so if that was the case why make these new rules on housing?
A senior source said: ‘The PM wants the immigration system to back people who work hard and do the right thing. He is determined to bring an end to the situation where people can come to the UK and get benefits and public services without putting anything in.
But once again the last Labour Government stated this was not happening either. So which one is it? Were immigrants allowed to come here and jump the housing ladder over people that had been on the waiting list for sometimes years? Were immigrants allowed to come here illegally or legally and claim benefits from day one or not? I am at a loss here as to what to believe. These new measures in my view are being brought in to try and stop the tide of new immigrants that look like are going to swamp the UK later this year. There are not the houses to house them, or the jobs available.
Is this a case of the Government running scared of the possible influx about to arrive, or is this something that is being done to simply curb immigrants from entering the UK and making this country less attractive to others?
Reading between the lines Cameron is petrified of the possible influx, and people coming here simply to get free benefits and free housing and free NHS treatment, without putting nothing into the system. Is this racist from Cameron? If so why is it, and if it is not, why is it not? I certainly will be intrigued to hear certain members on here who must think this is a racist move by Cameron.........surely?
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i do not think it is racist to put your own citizens first before those wishing to come and live here.
social housing should be just that and people who have been born in the uk and on waiting lists should be first to social housing than people coming here from abroad.
other countries do this so why shouldnt the uk? and those who think it is racist to do this would be the ones who would want to come here and abuse the system all ready in place here.
5-10 years living and working in a country with no criminal record then yes i feel you would have shown you are a citizen worthy of being considered for social housing.
social housing should be just that and people who have been born in the uk and on waiting lists should be first to social housing than people coming here from abroad.
other countries do this so why shouldnt the uk? and those who think it is racist to do this would be the ones who would want to come here and abuse the system all ready in place here.
5-10 years living and working in a country with no criminal record then yes i feel you would have shown you are a citizen worthy of being considered for social housing.
You can quote all the "legal and accepted" definitions you want, but I have always said I am a realist, so to that end, I do not believe that doing something about the amount of Africans and Eastern Europeans coming to this Country simply to milk the system can be classed as racist.
Welcoming people from those nations who have something to offer us, investors, nurses, scientists, doctors etc whilst turning away those that have no qualifications and arrive here just for the benefits is simply common sense.
Othe Countries do it, many places like Australia and the USA have immigration laws that favour the nation not the person who wishes to emigrate.
The problem is that under EU laws we will not be able to turn away Bulgarians or Romanians just like we cannot turn away Lithuanians or Polish, it is their legal right to come here as part of the free movement rules governing EU states.
We all know the reason is that the benefits available here are far greater than those available in most other EU countries, why is that ? how come people in other countries survive without the government benefits given here ? what system do the French, Germans, Italians use to keep the poor from dying ? could we learn lessons ?
I think everyone knows my view, our financial contributions to the EU and the cost of being forced to accept any EU state citizen who wants to come here far outweigh the benefits we get from being members of an EU market.
When I was younger "balance of trade" was one of the most important budget and campaign issues, we were constantly told that we needed to import less and export more, we did very well at it.
These days we do badly at export over import but the financial pundits are telling us it doesn't matter, I don't understand why it has changed, someone will tell me.
I think that if we used the money we give the EU and the money we are forced to pay to EU immigrants here to help UK businesses (yes including those that are foreign but located here such as Toyota in Derby) we would be better off.
Switzerland is not an EU member but £ for £ on the streets there and in the pocket of the average Swiss subject they are very well off, one of the richest nations in the world, they have a high % of immigrants but they are all there working because the Swiss won't finance them unless they are working, they won't give them houses.
Curbing immigration is easy, get out of the EU or negotiate new rules on what EU immigrants are entitled to by way of benefits (ie give them only what they would get if they stayed in their own country) (40,000 children in Poland recieve child benefit from the UK because one or more of their parents live here) and recognise the difference between an Asylum Seeker and an Immigrant.
Asylum Seeker, arrives here DIRECTLY from a place where their life is being threatened by wrongfull imprisonment, torture, abuse, murder, not arriving from France (for example where they have already escaped the above) Should be given access to housing and benefits for a set period of time while they get on their feet.
Immigrant, wants to come to live and work in the UK, should have sufficient funds to take care of themselves until they have secured private accommodation and work or even already have both organised as we have to have if we want to go to Australia or even Jersey. Should be qualified to do a job that will benefit the UK such as nurses and doctors for example, we have enough car washers and hotel housekeeping staff. No need to pay them benefits or give them housing, they choose to come here.
As for immigrants, EU state members and Asylum Seekers jumping the queue, of course they do, anyone who says they don't is a liar or stupid .......
The queue is based on points, a male of 24 born in the UK needing council accommodation gets very few points whatsoever, a family or single female from Lithuania gets more points, (the same as any other family does) they will be housed before the male, a single female will be found somewhere to stay (probably a hostel) immediately as we will not make her walk the streets, a single 24 year old male (for example) will NOT be given a hostel bed automatically.
In the system the person with the most points is housed first, the points do not recognise place of origin or time spent in the UK (though I do think you can get some points for time spent here it is often not enough to tip the balance in your favour as a single male.
Welcoming people from those nations who have something to offer us, investors, nurses, scientists, doctors etc whilst turning away those that have no qualifications and arrive here just for the benefits is simply common sense.
Othe Countries do it, many places like Australia and the USA have immigration laws that favour the nation not the person who wishes to emigrate.
The problem is that under EU laws we will not be able to turn away Bulgarians or Romanians just like we cannot turn away Lithuanians or Polish, it is their legal right to come here as part of the free movement rules governing EU states.
We all know the reason is that the benefits available here are far greater than those available in most other EU countries, why is that ? how come people in other countries survive without the government benefits given here ? what system do the French, Germans, Italians use to keep the poor from dying ? could we learn lessons ?
I think everyone knows my view, our financial contributions to the EU and the cost of being forced to accept any EU state citizen who wants to come here far outweigh the benefits we get from being members of an EU market.
When I was younger "balance of trade" was one of the most important budget and campaign issues, we were constantly told that we needed to import less and export more, we did very well at it.
These days we do badly at export over import but the financial pundits are telling us it doesn't matter, I don't understand why it has changed, someone will tell me.
I think that if we used the money we give the EU and the money we are forced to pay to EU immigrants here to help UK businesses (yes including those that are foreign but located here such as Toyota in Derby) we would be better off.
Switzerland is not an EU member but £ for £ on the streets there and in the pocket of the average Swiss subject they are very well off, one of the richest nations in the world, they have a high % of immigrants but they are all there working because the Swiss won't finance them unless they are working, they won't give them houses.
Curbing immigration is easy, get out of the EU or negotiate new rules on what EU immigrants are entitled to by way of benefits (ie give them only what they would get if they stayed in their own country) (40,000 children in Poland recieve child benefit from the UK because one or more of their parents live here) and recognise the difference between an Asylum Seeker and an Immigrant.
Asylum Seeker, arrives here DIRECTLY from a place where their life is being threatened by wrongfull imprisonment, torture, abuse, murder, not arriving from France (for example where they have already escaped the above) Should be given access to housing and benefits for a set period of time while they get on their feet.
Immigrant, wants to come to live and work in the UK, should have sufficient funds to take care of themselves until they have secured private accommodation and work or even already have both organised as we have to have if we want to go to Australia or even Jersey. Should be qualified to do a job that will benefit the UK such as nurses and doctors for example, we have enough car washers and hotel housekeeping staff. No need to pay them benefits or give them housing, they choose to come here.
As for immigrants, EU state members and Asylum Seekers jumping the queue, of course they do, anyone who says they don't is a liar or stupid .......
The queue is based on points, a male of 24 born in the UK needing council accommodation gets very few points whatsoever, a family or single female from Lithuania gets more points, (the same as any other family does) they will be housed before the male, a single female will be found somewhere to stay (probably a hostel) immediately as we will not make her walk the streets, a single 24 year old male (for example) will NOT be given a hostel bed automatically.
In the system the person with the most points is housed first, the points do not recognise place of origin or time spent in the UK (though I do think you can get some points for time spent here it is often not enough to tip the balance in your favour as a single male.
Very good points Mids and I do not disagree with most of what you say. But until about four years ago now to discuss or to imply that an immigrant coming here to the UK for the benefits and free housing would have had screams of " you're a racist " thrown at them from many sides, so what has suddenly changed over the last couple of years Mids? Is it the fact that denying these things that most people know to be true, has now become foolish and a vote loser?
I shall ask you the question Mids as others have avoided answering it for what I believe to be obvious reasons. See if you have some answers Mids, as I would be interested to know.
Over the last 10 years we have introduced around 6 million immigrants plus ( illegal included ) into this country. At this moment in time according to the figures there are currently 62,641,000 (2011)from the 2011 census figures. I am sure there have been a few more added to that over the 12 months or so.
In the 2001 census there were 59 million people in the UK, so a rise today of 4 million people plus. At this moment in time there are not enough jobs available to meet the demand. The infrastructure is nearing breaking point, austerity measures are affecting almost everyone one of us as there just is not the money available, so my question Mids is how can we expect to survive when in ten years time the population is 70 million? At that rate how long will it be before there are 100 million on this tiny Island, and how can this country sustain those numbers?
Immigration is fine Mids but it has to be controlled.........now.
Can you answer the question Mids? How can this coutry survive with 70 million plus people in it?
I shall ask you the question Mids as others have avoided answering it for what I believe to be obvious reasons. See if you have some answers Mids, as I would be interested to know.
Over the last 10 years we have introduced around 6 million immigrants plus ( illegal included ) into this country. At this moment in time according to the figures there are currently 62,641,000 (2011)from the 2011 census figures. I am sure there have been a few more added to that over the 12 months or so.
In the 2001 census there were 59 million people in the UK, so a rise today of 4 million people plus. At this moment in time there are not enough jobs available to meet the demand. The infrastructure is nearing breaking point, austerity measures are affecting almost everyone one of us as there just is not the money available, so my question Mids is how can we expect to survive when in ten years time the population is 70 million? At that rate how long will it be before there are 100 million on this tiny Island, and how can this country sustain those numbers?
Immigration is fine Mids but it has to be controlled.........now.
Can you answer the question Mids? How can this coutry survive with 70 million plus people in it?
Well I don't believe we can is my simple answer.
As I keep saying, my view is that we have to radically change our rules on immigration and we have to get hard, we have to say NO, we do not need you here to those we do not need and actively recruit immigrants that we need, ie those wishing to invest here, those who are qualified in trades that are in short supply here.
That is my simple answer as I keep stating, we have to be like Australia, Jersey, the USA and others.
The problem we have is that many that come here do so claiming Asylum when they clearly have no grounds for Asylum, asylum bypasses rules that we have for immigration and quite rightly so, a bonafide asylum seeker needs our help, but someone arriving from France is never an asylum seeker, France won't kill, torture, abuse or imprison them without reason, if they come from Nigeria to France they are safe, if they then want to pass through France to England they should apply for immigration, have sufficient funds to care for themselves, have a job and housing offer if not or be in a special category of needed tradespeople.
The other and perhaps main problem is EU rules saying we cannot stop them coming here, the solution to that has a few options, get out of the EU, or use our standing in the EU (they need us) to re-negotiate the rules on who can come here and what benefits they are entitled to when they get here, with the EU knowing we will leave if they don't come to their senses, all they need to do is change the rules to say that EU State members can travel to any EU Country for a holiday or if they have secured accommodation and employment in the target country and/or change the rules to say that when migrating, EU state subjects are only entitled to the benefits and housing rights that they would get in the EU state of their origin and not as is current the benefits and housing rights of the target state they are moving to.
As for those coming on holiday, yes a percentage will have no intention of leaving, on arrival ALL holiday makers should have sufficient funds to finance their stay here, a return ticket for when they leave, a holiday should have a set time limit or the visit becomes an immigration issue under new immigration rules (in keeping with those I have suggested), therefore an "indefinate holiday" needs funds for an indefinate period without the need to work in the UK. These are the simple rules employed by the Australians. Even the "holiday deposit idea of the Government may be plausible.
Illegal immigrants should be dealt with quickly and efficiently not housed here for eons while they plead their case, ship em out and tell them to apply to have the ruling overturned from the Country they are repatriated to (place of birth or point of departure to the UK).
People marrying for passports should be granted a special UK passport which is only valid for as long as they are married and cohabitating with their spouse.
Those who come here to marry should NOT be entitled automatically to bring other family members or even reside in the UK, if you fall in love with a man from another country there is nothing to stop you going to live with him in that country, that is a choice we all have, it is not written in stone that love can only exist in the UK.
Rule changes should be part immediate and part phased in for those already in the UK affected by the rule changes, ie those EU members recieving benefits here should have them stopped within one month of the rule change, previous entitlement should not change the new rules, they should immediately apply for work status showing that they have the required job and accommodation under their own steam/finance.
As I keep saying, my view is that we have to radically change our rules on immigration and we have to get hard, we have to say NO, we do not need you here to those we do not need and actively recruit immigrants that we need, ie those wishing to invest here, those who are qualified in trades that are in short supply here.
That is my simple answer as I keep stating, we have to be like Australia, Jersey, the USA and others.
The problem we have is that many that come here do so claiming Asylum when they clearly have no grounds for Asylum, asylum bypasses rules that we have for immigration and quite rightly so, a bonafide asylum seeker needs our help, but someone arriving from France is never an asylum seeker, France won't kill, torture, abuse or imprison them without reason, if they come from Nigeria to France they are safe, if they then want to pass through France to England they should apply for immigration, have sufficient funds to care for themselves, have a job and housing offer if not or be in a special category of needed tradespeople.
The other and perhaps main problem is EU rules saying we cannot stop them coming here, the solution to that has a few options, get out of the EU, or use our standing in the EU (they need us) to re-negotiate the rules on who can come here and what benefits they are entitled to when they get here, with the EU knowing we will leave if they don't come to their senses, all they need to do is change the rules to say that EU State members can travel to any EU Country for a holiday or if they have secured accommodation and employment in the target country and/or change the rules to say that when migrating, EU state subjects are only entitled to the benefits and housing rights that they would get in the EU state of their origin and not as is current the benefits and housing rights of the target state they are moving to.
As for those coming on holiday, yes a percentage will have no intention of leaving, on arrival ALL holiday makers should have sufficient funds to finance their stay here, a return ticket for when they leave, a holiday should have a set time limit or the visit becomes an immigration issue under new immigration rules (in keeping with those I have suggested), therefore an "indefinate holiday" needs funds for an indefinate period without the need to work in the UK. These are the simple rules employed by the Australians. Even the "holiday deposit idea of the Government may be plausible.
Illegal immigrants should be dealt with quickly and efficiently not housed here for eons while they plead their case, ship em out and tell them to apply to have the ruling overturned from the Country they are repatriated to (place of birth or point of departure to the UK).
People marrying for passports should be granted a special UK passport which is only valid for as long as they are married and cohabitating with their spouse.
Those who come here to marry should NOT be entitled automatically to bring other family members or even reside in the UK, if you fall in love with a man from another country there is nothing to stop you going to live with him in that country, that is a choice we all have, it is not written in stone that love can only exist in the UK.
Rule changes should be part immediate and part phased in for those already in the UK affected by the rule changes, ie those EU members recieving benefits here should have them stopped within one month of the rule change, previous entitlement should not change the new rules, they should immediately apply for work status showing that they have the required job and accommodation under their own steam/finance.
as for anyone saying my views are racially motivated, I am saying we should GO TO NIGERIA and ROMANIA to actively recruit immigrants into the UK, but those that we need, Doctors (who can speak English) Nurses, technicians, Dentists, Techies and whatever other trades we need.
Zimbabwe born, want to come to the UK, don't forget how you spit on me when I served in your Country (Rhodesia) to aid your independance application and threw us out of your Country when you fill in your immigration application.
Poland, I remember you were our first ally and we do have close links despite our distance apart, I will consider that when you apply for immigration.
Nepalese, love you, love what you do for Britain, let us help you come here.
Irish, you stand by us everytime, we will stand by you.
Indian Sikhs, you fought and died for us in your thousands, I will fight for you if you ask me.
Racism, eat my multicoloured shorts.
Zimbabwe born, want to come to the UK, don't forget how you spit on me when I served in your Country (Rhodesia) to aid your independance application and threw us out of your Country when you fill in your immigration application.
Poland, I remember you were our first ally and we do have close links despite our distance apart, I will consider that when you apply for immigration.
Nepalese, love you, love what you do for Britain, let us help you come here.
Irish, you stand by us everytime, we will stand by you.
Indian Sikhs, you fought and died for us in your thousands, I will fight for you if you ask me.
Racism, eat my multicoloured shorts.
Sex God
Shouldn't they be multicultural shorts :color:
Far from immigration being the reason for all the problems of the UK I it has been our saviour, with immigration we have problems, but without it we would also have problems.
Remember the 50-60s when we went to Jamaica and asked the people to come and help us ?
The Irish to help us build our road system and rebuild the cities flattened by bombing during WWII ?
Immigration is important to this Island - it simply has to be controlled - always.
Remember the 50-60s when we went to Jamaica and asked the people to come and help us ?
The Irish to help us build our road system and rebuild the cities flattened by bombing during WWII ?
Immigration is important to this Island - it simply has to be controlled - always.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Immigration is important to this Island - it simply has to be controlled - always.
I agree with that sentiment Mids, but instead of jobs going begging to immigrants, why not put in place a system to get British people off benefits to do the jobs? Force people with stopping their benefits if you have to.
It is a false economy to pay for example Polish workers money to pick strawberry's in the summer, when there are thousands of people claiming benefits for being out of work who could easily do this job.
The Polish worker pays the tax on their earnings for picking those strawberry's only for that money to be then spent on people claiming the dole for doing nothing, and saying there are no jobs available.
It is never to late to control immigration but I feel this country has been seriously damaged by the huge influx over the last decade. Now as those immigrants settle and bare their own children who in turn will have their children, all the time the countries explosion on it's population continues going ever upwards with very little change in our infrastructure.
Had Cameron had said these things about immigrants coming here only a couple of years ago, he would have been hounded to within an inch of political decimation, but now as the left are coming to realise that the last decade of uncontrolled immigration has had such a huge impact, they are now sitting silent. The screaming mob that were so active in calling anyone a racist for questioning the levels coming here are now so silent it is in fact scary.
Can you imagine Mids had another politician openly declared that all future immigrants would have to have a home to come to and money to live here before they were allowed in, say 5 years ago what would have happened? The country has changed beyond recognition over the last 15 years and not all of it for the better either.
My how silent it has become from the Liberals, and how scared so many people are on the incoming surge of immigrants about to swarm here. So scared that no politician it seems will even hazard a guess at how many. Talk about deja vu.
I don't have to imagine it, my next door neighbour said it in the early 70s, he said then that we needed to tighten our immigration rules as were were getting too many applications from Pakistan and India.
He was accused of being racist, he became famous/infamous but was moved somewhere quiet.
His name was Enoch Powell.
We can make the EU change the rules or get out of the EU, but until we do either option we have to accept the Polish workers, we cannot stop them coming.
We pay high benefits to some and not enough to others.
Most of those we give too much are working on the side or simply not being honest with their claim forms, controversial but necessary is the need to make people work for their benefits where possible, at one time working claiments found it difficult to get to the benefits office to collect their payments because explaining the time off work to the boss was difficult, now we pay it direct into bank accounts.
Many benefit claimants do pick strawberries and do other cash in hand jobs, they just carry on claiming benefits at the same time it is not because they dont want to work, it is because our system is too easily hacked, it is too easy to get benefits when you have another income, how we make it more secure I don't know.
The ID card system might help but an ID card should be simple with only the information necessary not all the info suggested by the current advocates of it, Name, age, Picture, National Insurance number, Medical allergies, blood group, something along the lines of Military ID cards which the forces have always found usefull or better still just make people use Passports when taking jobs so that a record can be made of who is being employed even for cash in hand jobs, every employer should be made to register every worker for any amount of hours or pay, passports should have national insurance numbers within them. A passport should be compulsory for everyone residing in the UK.
He was accused of being racist, he became famous/infamous but was moved somewhere quiet.
His name was Enoch Powell.
We can make the EU change the rules or get out of the EU, but until we do either option we have to accept the Polish workers, we cannot stop them coming.
We pay high benefits to some and not enough to others.
Most of those we give too much are working on the side or simply not being honest with their claim forms, controversial but necessary is the need to make people work for their benefits where possible, at one time working claiments found it difficult to get to the benefits office to collect their payments because explaining the time off work to the boss was difficult, now we pay it direct into bank accounts.
Many benefit claimants do pick strawberries and do other cash in hand jobs, they just carry on claiming benefits at the same time it is not because they dont want to work, it is because our system is too easily hacked, it is too easy to get benefits when you have another income, how we make it more secure I don't know.
The ID card system might help but an ID card should be simple with only the information necessary not all the info suggested by the current advocates of it, Name, age, Picture, National Insurance number, Medical allergies, blood group, something along the lines of Military ID cards which the forces have always found usefull or better still just make people use Passports when taking jobs so that a record can be made of who is being employed even for cash in hand jobs, every employer should be made to register every worker for any amount of hours or pay, passports should have national insurance numbers within them. A passport should be compulsory for everyone residing in the UK.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Well after all the years and years of dithering over immigration it seems that David Cameron is at last doing something constructive,......A senior source said: ‘The PM wants the immigration system to back people who work hard and do the right thing. He is determined to bring an end to the situation where people can come to the UK and get benefits and public services without putting anything in.
So has Cameron actually said all this, or is it just a carefully placed 'leak' so as to judge reaction and also pander to his own anti Back benchers and local association members given the usual bad press they are getting, talk of a leadership challenge, and expectation of a bloody nose in May in local elections.
Probably more spin doctoring for the sound bite headlines that we've copme to expect from the fractious Tories rather than any actual firm policy that will be put before Parliament for debate.
Sex God
Cameron, Milliband and the rest are now "talking tough" on immigration for one simple reason.....................UKIP has them really scared !!
John
John
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
Cameron, Milliband and the rest are now "talking tough" on immigration for one simple reason.....................UKIP has them really scared !!
John
Actually John whilst I agree that is part of the picture, the wider picture is Eastleigh. The Tory's were stuffed and when asked what people's real concerns were, immigration was right up there. Also we have an unknown amount of immigrants due to arrive in less than 12 months from now. A lot of the newcomers will have a zero skill base, but plenty of expectations surrounding our benefits and housing and free health care.
Politicians are now only making big noises because the immigration policies under Labour have now been proved a big issue for Brits in all walks of life. Before the austerity measures kicked in nobody really cared, but now people are seeing terrorists making our laws look ridiculous and we cannot kick them out so Europe is an issue. Now another huge influx looks ready to come here and experts who are saying we could need cities the size of Birmingham every three years.
We are skint and simply put Cameron and his chums realise that if they do nothing about this new influx coming here, their days are numbered as a party in office. Stand by for some fireworks on this issue over the coming months, and still I have not heard a single person yelling that to stop these people from entering and giving them houses and benefits is racist. Funny that as under Blair you would have almost been thrown in the stocks for the merest of suggestions of such things.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Very good points Mids and I do not disagree with most of what you say. But until about four years ago now to discuss or to imply that an immigrant coming here to the UK for the benefits and free housing would have had screams of " you're a racist " thrown at them from many sides, so what has suddenly changed over the last couple of years Mids? Is it the fact that denying these things that most people know to be true, has now become foolish and a vote loser?
I shall ask you the question Mids as others have avoided answering it for what I believe to be obvious reasons. See if you have some answers Mids, as I would be interested to know.
Over the last 10 years we have introduced around 6 million immigrants plus ( illegal included ) into this country. At this moment in time according to the figures there are currently 62,641,000 (2011)from the 2011 census figures. I am sure there have been a few more added to that over the 12 months or so.
In the 2001 census there were 59 million people in the UK, so a rise today of 4 million people plus. At this moment in time there are not enough jobs available to meet the demand. The infrastructure is nearing breaking point, austerity measures are affecting almost everyone one of us as there just is not the money available, so my question Mids is how can we expect to survive when in ten years time the population is 70 million? At that rate how long will it be before there are 100 million on this tiny Island, and how can this country sustain those numbers?
Immigration is fine Mids but it has to be controlled.........now.
Can you answer the question Mids? How can this coutry survive with 70 million plus people in it?
Another 10,000,000 taxpayers would go a very long way to resolving the countrys debt problem. But you would not expect anyone with a closed mind to take that view.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
It is never to late to control immigration but I feel this country has been seriously damaged by the huge influx over the last decade. Now as those immigrants settle and bare their own children who in turn will have their children, all the time the countries explosion on it's population continues going ever upwards with very little change in our infrastructure.
Can you imagine Mids had another politician openly declared that all future immigrants would have to have a home to come to and money to live here before they were allowed in, say 5 years ago what would have happened? The country has changed beyond recognition over the last 15 years and not all of it for the better either.
1) The greatest damage has been that the idle, feckless and brainless have been allowed to blame immigrants for all of their problems instead of sorting their own lives.
2) Immigrants have always settled here, had children and planted roots - it has happened for thousands of years and always will.
3) Simple maths - we pay out massive amounts of welfare payments for pensions, NHS, etc etc. Getting young, fit new employees by nature is going to generate more tax revenue than expenditure.
4) Despite what you say about the shock - it is already NOT POSSIBLE for a new immigrant to come here and claim social housing.
5) I find your constant moaning about immigrants nauseating. One half of us two is a first generation immigrant and the other fourth generation. Most of our close friends are Europeans and we are ALL high rate tax payers and we ALL get really annoyed at the constant moaning, whining and bitching by a lot of English people who are so complacent and have such an easy life for so long that you just cannot see the opportunities that this country has to offer. All some want to do is moan, complain and blame everyone else - don't be surprised then when highly motivated people turn up and are prepared to work in this country of great opportunity.
Quote by Too Hot
It is never to late to control immigration but I feel this country has been seriously damaged by the huge influx over the last decade. Now as those immigrants settle and bare their own children who in turn will have their children, all the time the countries explosion on it's population continues going ever upwards with very little change in our infrastructure.
Can you imagine Mids had another politician openly declared that all future immigrants would have to have a home to come to and money to live here before they were allowed in, say 5 years ago what would have happened? The country has changed beyond recognition over the last 15 years and not all of it for the better either.
1) The greatest damage has been that the idle, feckless and brainless have been allowed to blame immigrants for all of their problems instead of sorting their own lives.
2) Immigrants have always settled here, had children and planted roots - it has happened for thousands of years and always will.
3) Simple maths - we pay out massive amounts of welfare payments for pensions, NHS, etc etc. Getting young, fit new employees by nature is going to generate more tax revenue than expenditure.
4) Despite what you say about the shock - it is already NOT POSSIBLE for a new immigrant to come here and claim social housing.
5) I find your constant moaning about immigrants nauseating. One half of us two is a first generation immigrant and the other fourth generation. Most of our close friends are Europeans and we are ALL high rate tax payers and we ALL get really annoyed at the constant moaning, whining and bitching by a lot of English people who are so complacent and have such an easy life for so long that you just cannot see the opportunities that this country has to offer. All some want to do is moan, complain and blame everyone else - don't be surprised then when highly motivated people turn up and are prepared to work in this country of great opportunity.
Could you let me have some details in the EU policy change on this matter please, namely where they have changed the rules regarding benefit payments to job seekers coming here from other EU states and the details of the changes to the EU rules regarding child benefit that is currently being paid to 40,000 children living in Poland, this is big news because if we do not now have to pay child benefit to the Romanians when they arrive or pay them job seekers allowance or pay them housing benefit the arrival of 50,000 of them could be a good thing.
The rules until the date of this amendment you are going to show me were that all immigrants coming here to work from other EU states were entitled to the same benefits as all other UK citizens.
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
It is never to late to control immigration but I feel this country has been seriously damaged by the huge influx over the last decade. Now as those immigrants settle and bare their own children who in turn will have their children, all the time the countries explosion on it's population continues going ever upwards with very little change in our infrastructure.
Can you imagine Mids had another politician openly declared that all future immigrants would have to have a home to come to and money to live here before they were allowed in, say 5 years ago what would have happened? The country has changed beyond recognition over the last 15 years and not all of it for the better either.
1) The greatest damage has been that the idle, feckless and brainless have been allowed to blame immigrants for all of their problems instead of sorting their own lives.
2) Immigrants have always settled here, had children and planted roots - it has happened for thousands of years and always will.
3) Simple maths - we pay out massive amounts of welfare payments for pensions, NHS, etc etc. Getting young, fit new employees by nature is going to generate more tax revenue than expenditure.
4) Despite what you say about the shock - it is already NOT POSSIBLE for a new immigrant to come here and claim social housing.
5) I find your constant moaning about immigrants nauseating. One half of us two is a first generation immigrant and the other fourth generation. Most of our close friends are Europeans and we are ALL high rate tax payers and we ALL get really annoyed at the constant moaning, whining and bitching by a lot of English people who are so complacent and have such an easy life for so long that you just cannot see the opportunities that this country has to offer. All some want to do is moan, complain and blame everyone else - don't be surprised then when highly motivated people turn up and are prepared to work in this country of great opportunity.
Could you let me have some details in the EU policy change on this matter please, namely where they have changed the rules regarding benefit payments to job seekers coming here from other EU states and the details of the changes to the EU rules regarding child benefit that is currently being paid to 40,000 children living in Poland, this is big news because if we do not now have to pay child benefit to the Romanians when they arrive or pay them job seekers allowance or pay them housing benefit the arrival of 50,000 of them could be a good thing.
The rules until the date of this amendment you are going to show me were that all immigrants coming here to work from other EU states were entitled to the same benefits as all other UK citizens.
Why are you asking me to quote a change of policy on something that I have not referred to? This discussion is about housing recent immigrants and the fact is that a new immigrant does not hold favours like for like over native UK citizens despite what the Daily mail or similar might tell you.
Successive governments have had the opportunity to change UK benefit rules but what I find amazing in this debate is that no one is pausing to think and realise that the UK welfare system is a joke for everyone and it needed attention to prevent local abuse, let alone abuse from immigrants.
The other thing that most people don't get is that most immigrants come here as highly motivated individuals and no matter what the Daily Mail (or similar) would have you believe very, very few people will travel half way across Europe to claim benefits - they come for a better working life. The fact that the UK welfare system is a joke is not the fault of the immigrant but the fault of successive UK Governments.
Because you are saying our benefits bill is too high, now I agree with you there but a large part of the problem YOU are talking about is payments made to immigrants
Simple maths - we pay out massive amounts of welfare payments for pensions, NHS, etc etc. Getting young, fit new employees by nature is going to generate more tax revenue than expenditure.
You said that not me
Immigrants are part of that equation, you said that too "Immigrants have always settled here, had children and planted roots - it has happened for thousands of years and always will" they cannot come here for thousand of years without being part of that equation.
The payments have little to do with our Government these days since the rules saying we must pay EU immigrants the same benefits we pay UK residents are made by the EU. I would agree that the UK Governments have given the EU that power but it is there now for us to live under.
I am one who in this thread and others have supported immigration and agree that it is not the sole reason for our problems, but it is part of the problem and you cannot cure the whole without mending all the edges.
You may not have to house an EU migrant but if the migrant gets a house from a private landlord EU rules say that they are entitled to claim the same Housing Benefit a UK Citizen can claim. This means they are happy to get their own private accommodation because it is us that in many cases will foot the bill for it.
Simple maths - we pay out massive amounts of welfare payments for pensions, NHS, etc etc. Getting young, fit new employees by nature is going to generate more tax revenue than expenditure.
You said that not me
Immigrants are part of that equation, you said that too "Immigrants have always settled here, had children and planted roots - it has happened for thousands of years and always will" they cannot come here for thousand of years without being part of that equation.
The payments have little to do with our Government these days since the rules saying we must pay EU immigrants the same benefits we pay UK residents are made by the EU. I would agree that the UK Governments have given the EU that power but it is there now for us to live under.
I am one who in this thread and others have supported immigration and agree that it is not the sole reason for our problems, but it is part of the problem and you cannot cure the whole without mending all the edges.
You may not have to house an EU migrant but if the migrant gets a house from a private landlord EU rules say that they are entitled to claim the same Housing Benefit a UK Citizen can claim. This means they are happy to get their own private accommodation because it is us that in many cases will foot the bill for it.
Quote by Too Hot
Another 10,000,000 taxpayers would go a very long way to resolving the countrys debt problem. But you would not expect anyone with a closed mind to take that view.
Sorry TH but sometimes you do talk a load of old bull.
Seeing as you think you're a clever man tell me this. Where are another 10,000,000 jobs going to appear from for these people to pay their taxes on??
You come up with this rubbish all the time on so many levels so answer that question. There are currently not enough job vacancies to fill the current 2.4 million people out of work. How and where are these new jobs going to appear from??
Quote by Too Hot
1) The greatest damage has been that the idle, feckless and brainless have been allowed to blame immigrants for all of their problems instead of sorting their own lives.
No Th your constant scaremongering is just so typical of a person with a few bob. The biggest damage to this country has been by the bankers and the politicians who failed to spot the banking collapse. Because of that banking crisis hundreds of thousands of jobs have been lost and continue to be lost, by companies that cannot borrow money to keep their businesses afloat and to keep their staff on.
I am sure you put many of those poor unfortunate people currently out of work through no fault of their own, into that dole scrounging idle, feckless and brainless category. No? Then how do you differentiate between the idle feckless scroungers and anyone else claiming JSA?
Quote by Too Hot
2) Immigrants have always settled here, had children and planted roots - it has happened for thousands of years and always will.
That is not the issue, the issue is the amount that have come here in a very short space of time. Immigration of course has and will continue to be good for Britain, but it has to be controlled as we are skint and another influx coming here soon from people that are zero skilled will only add to our burden, and extra money from the ever so wonderful taxpayers of this country to have to fund it.
Quote by Too Hot
3) Simple maths - we pay out massive amounts of welfare payments for pensions, NHS, etc etc. Getting young, fit new employees by nature is going to generate more tax revenue than expenditure.
You really are blind to the blinking obvious. Many immigrants come here with their Wives and children in tow. These people have to be housed and because children are involved are entitled to benefits and lots of help. You have this clouded vision that every immigrant worker that comes here is a fit young male under 25 who works 100 hours a week and pays all their taxes and claims nothing in return. What an idea from someone who is so obviously delusional as to the problems of the UK, and probably from a person who does not even realise what child benefit is.
Quote by Too Hot
4) Despite what you say about the shock - it is already NOT POSSIBLE for a new immigrant to come here and claim social housing.
Not possible? Really? Why then is Cameron making it a new law that will not allow new immigrant workers to be given council housing until they have been in the UK for over two years and have put something into the system,? Why make a law if this is not happening?
Quote by as MidsCouple24
As for immigrants, EU state members and Asylum Seekers jumping the queue, of course they do, anyone who says they don't is a liar or stupid .......
So which one of these category's do you fall into then TH?
Quote by Too Hot
5) I find your constant moaning about immigrants nauseating. One half of us two is a first generation immigrant and the other fourth generation. Most of our close friends are Europeans and we are ALL high rate tax payers and we ALL get really annoyed at the constant moaning, whining and bitching by a lot of English people who are so complacent and have such an easy life for so long that you just cannot see the opportunities that this country has to offer. All some want to do is moan, complain and blame everyone else - don't be surprised then when highly motivated people turn up and are prepared to work in this country of great opportunity.
You are so out of touch with the real UK. People are not moaning about immigration, they are moaning because they see immigrants get free hand outs when they have put very little into the system Immigration is top of so many people's lists and it seems that Cameron at long last is doing something constructive to stop immigrants scroungers from coming here and claiming free NHS care and being given council housing above British people who have been on the list for ages.
People in this country right now will soon have to start paying the bedroom tax on what is already a low amount of money available to them. They then see immigrant workers coming here and being able to claim for this and that under EU rules, and with having put very little into the UK system, whilst people that have worked hard all their lives are being forced to pay extra money on an ever dwindling amount of money. I do not expect you TH to see the wider picture, why should you when you are obviously very comfortable financially. All you ever do is moan about the dole scrounging idle and feckless out of work. You should feel so proud of yourself as your truly are a non caring Tory.
David Cameron's proposals.
Altho people are quick to say that certain classes of people should not get benefits or hand outs I hear less about what they would do with these people.
As a society we need to protect the vulnerable ... from what ever part of society they come from.
If we have Romanian families with young children who need housing then they must be housed... because no one wants to see familes with young children living rough on the streets of the UK
I think we do need to control immigration but once these people are here they become our problem. If they have entered illegally they should be returned home but if people are here lawfully they must be helped....
..and in return for our help they must contribute to society ideally by working and paying taxes - that is the social contract we all have with our generous welfare society.
As a society we need to protect the vulnerable ... from what ever part of society they come from.
If we have Romanian families with young children who need housing then they must be housed... because no one wants to see familes with young children living rough on the streets of the UK
I think we do need to control immigration but once these people are here they become our problem. If they have entered illegally they should be returned home but if people are here lawfully they must be helped....
..and in return for our help they must contribute to society ideally by working and paying taxes - that is the social contract we all have with our generous welfare society.
Quote by Green_Fox_71
If we have Romanian families with young children who need housing then they must be housed... because no one wants to see familes with young children living rough on the streets of the UK
What about the British people who are in dire need of social housing already with children? Some of these people have already been on one list or another for sometimes years. As your example with Romanian families they have put themselves into that situation willingly, so why not got to France or Germany for their help? Because these people really do think the streets of the UK are paved with gold. Nobody forces them to come to the UK, even with children and no home they will still come. Why?
Also maybe these families should have thought about that the moment they stepped out of their home country??
Tell me though Green........why would a responsible family take their children hundreds of miles to another country, with no house or job or money?
It is a matter of simplicity here for Cameron. No job...... No entry.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I am still waiting for that information on policy change by the EU that means we know longer have to pay housing benefit to immigrants living in the UK or other benefits ie supply social housing albeit in the form of paying private landlords the rent for them.
You're be waiting a while there Mids, as it don't exist. Keep on asking though.
just an idea.....
but what about no matter what country you no reside in....if claiming benifiets, you only get what your country of Birth would have paid out.
This would mean people would not want to travel to a country where their benifiet allowance would not really sustain them......but they might be willing to travel there if honestly looking for work !!!
but what about no matter what country you no reside in....if claiming benifiets, you only get what your country of Birth would have paid out.
This would mean people would not want to travel to a country where their benifiet allowance would not really sustain them......but they might be willing to travel there if honestly looking for work !!!
It is no good blaming the citizens of the United Kingdom for a problem that exists because of EU and Government mistakes, they are simply airing their fears.
In a Europe where many States that were believed to be prosperous and in control of their destinies, those states are on the brink of bankruptcy, Cyprus, Ireland, Greece etc.
Whilst this is happening the EU powers are welcoming new less stable Countries to join us, we welcomed Poland, Lithuania and many other poorer countries into the EU in the hope that by subsidising their growth the whole EU would benefit from the new states for our trade.
It did not happen, not only did we have to pour more than we could afford into those new states but the residents of those countries realised that their new found freedom of movement and employment within the EU opened a flood gate into the more prosperous states causing a worsening of unemployment, here in the United Kingdom our benefits system was seen as a soft touch (which it is).
States like Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Lithuania, Chech Republic, Hungary, Latvia, Slovenia, Slovakia, could not improve despite the benefits of joining the EU because their core workforce moved to more prospersous states and they found themselves short of unskilled labour, they did increase salaries and working conditions bringing some home but are still having problems in that area.
The EU has learned nothing from those mistakes, we are about to welcome two more ,Countries into the couldron, Romania which we know to be in a rocky financial situation, poor before they even join and I think the other Country is Croatia.
Other Countries who have applied to join are Montenegro, Serbia and Macedonia.
Opening up new trading areas is not a bad idea, but we have ended up pouring EU funds into those countries, they may be buying from the EU market but they are using our money to do it, that to me seems like a false economy, the EU powers love to expand, they get more power each time they do.
The concept of the EU is great, the practice of it has not worked.
In the UK like many Countries and EU states we have financial problems, our benefits system is out of control, too much being paid to those who do not need or deserve it and not enough to those in real need.
The old lady and her dogs who has probably paid into the system all her life and is now in dire straights, the terrorist drawing thousands of pounds a month to keep him here in the UK at our not inconsiderable expense.
The immigration situation where more immigrants than we need are pouring in, some we need, some are hard working and contribute to our economy and well being, but not all, some just milk our system and because of EU laws we are powerless to stop much of it happening.
We need to tighten immigration and allow in ONLY those we need and who can benefit us by being here and we need to curb our benefit abuse by citizens and non-citizens alike.
Immediate action can be quite simple, make the EU change the rule that says we have to pay the same benefits to a migrant worker/immigrant that we pay to citizens to one where they are only entitled to the same benefits they would recieve in their own state.
This would mean we wouldn't be paying Child Benefit to 40,000 Polish Children living in Poland, (and countless more from other countries) we wouldn't be paying Housing Benefit to those living in private accommodation and not working.
It would NOT affect many of the migrant workers/immigrants who are working and contributing to society here, those people pay their own rent because they are earning enough to do so and therefore not entitled to housing benefit, sure they would lose their child benefit but why should they get it from us anyway.
Most of the scroungers from EU states would probably head for home if they couldn't get benefits from us, the workers would stay.
Then we have to sort out our own many scroungers and fraudsters, we have to make the benefit system one which cannot so easily be defrauded. Every empolyer cash in hand, large or small has to be made to register every single worker by Passport details and National Insurance number no matter how little they earn, Passports have to be compulsory even if that means we provide the first issue free to the poorer amongst us.
Housing Benefit is being stolen, Landlords are being paid rent by family members ie including spouses and children. Job seekers allowance is being paid to people in work or who own properties that provide an income, that has to be tightened up.
The amount of people with "bad backs" claiming disability benefits has to looked into, not carte blanche reductions as they have just done, but proper individual medicals on people with certain disabilities that prevent them working, ok if your born without arms or lose them in a car accident it is pretty obvious they wont grow back, if you lose a leg in Afghanistan it wont re-appear, some disabilities can be issued long term, some need updates on their conditions and so on. Whatever it takes we need to curb the benefits system.
But other areas too, the ridiculous compensation claims, the fraudulent MP expenses, the crazy bonuses paid to Home Office executives and high ranking officials, the squandering of money on defence contracts (billions) for equipment that is not needed (whilst not procurring that which we do need), cutting back in overseas aid to countries that don't need it (until recently China got overseas aid from us) cutting back our overseas aid altogether until we can afford it.
Yes people are having a go at Immigration policies which are not conducive with making Britain a place where we can survive let alone prosper (not the immigrants personally) but they are concerned about everything, we don't want to join the list of Bankrupt Countries.
This week we will probably see our EU contributions being used once again to bail out Cyprus, EU funds and IMF loans in their billions, why did we want Cyprus in the EU ? how much were they ever able to offer us for membership, how much trade could we open up with them, they dont produce a lot that we needed and they dont buy a lot from us that we needed to import into the EU, how many other countries were the same, the EU was supposed to be about opening up new trade areas wasn't it ?
Perhaps we should take a leaf from the Billionairs Football Club owners remit and form a breakaway EU with Germany and France and anyone else who can work together with a sound financial and stable economy instead of getting every poor country into it.
In a Europe where many States that were believed to be prosperous and in control of their destinies, those states are on the brink of bankruptcy, Cyprus, Ireland, Greece etc.
Whilst this is happening the EU powers are welcoming new less stable Countries to join us, we welcomed Poland, Lithuania and many other poorer countries into the EU in the hope that by subsidising their growth the whole EU would benefit from the new states for our trade.
It did not happen, not only did we have to pour more than we could afford into those new states but the residents of those countries realised that their new found freedom of movement and employment within the EU opened a flood gate into the more prosperous states causing a worsening of unemployment, here in the United Kingdom our benefits system was seen as a soft touch (which it is).
States like Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Lithuania, Chech Republic, Hungary, Latvia, Slovenia, Slovakia, could not improve despite the benefits of joining the EU because their core workforce moved to more prospersous states and they found themselves short of unskilled labour, they did increase salaries and working conditions bringing some home but are still having problems in that area.
The EU has learned nothing from those mistakes, we are about to welcome two more ,Countries into the couldron, Romania which we know to be in a rocky financial situation, poor before they even join and I think the other Country is Croatia.
Other Countries who have applied to join are Montenegro, Serbia and Macedonia.
Opening up new trading areas is not a bad idea, but we have ended up pouring EU funds into those countries, they may be buying from the EU market but they are using our money to do it, that to me seems like a false economy, the EU powers love to expand, they get more power each time they do.
The concept of the EU is great, the practice of it has not worked.
In the UK like many Countries and EU states we have financial problems, our benefits system is out of control, too much being paid to those who do not need or deserve it and not enough to those in real need.
The old lady and her dogs who has probably paid into the system all her life and is now in dire straights, the terrorist drawing thousands of pounds a month to keep him here in the UK at our not inconsiderable expense.
The immigration situation where more immigrants than we need are pouring in, some we need, some are hard working and contribute to our economy and well being, but not all, some just milk our system and because of EU laws we are powerless to stop much of it happening.
We need to tighten immigration and allow in ONLY those we need and who can benefit us by being here and we need to curb our benefit abuse by citizens and non-citizens alike.
Immediate action can be quite simple, make the EU change the rule that says we have to pay the same benefits to a migrant worker/immigrant that we pay to citizens to one where they are only entitled to the same benefits they would recieve in their own state.
This would mean we wouldn't be paying Child Benefit to 40,000 Polish Children living in Poland, (and countless more from other countries) we wouldn't be paying Housing Benefit to those living in private accommodation and not working.
It would NOT affect many of the migrant workers/immigrants who are working and contributing to society here, those people pay their own rent because they are earning enough to do so and therefore not entitled to housing benefit, sure they would lose their child benefit but why should they get it from us anyway.
Most of the scroungers from EU states would probably head for home if they couldn't get benefits from us, the workers would stay.
Then we have to sort out our own many scroungers and fraudsters, we have to make the benefit system one which cannot so easily be defrauded. Every empolyer cash in hand, large or small has to be made to register every single worker by Passport details and National Insurance number no matter how little they earn, Passports have to be compulsory even if that means we provide the first issue free to the poorer amongst us.
Housing Benefit is being stolen, Landlords are being paid rent by family members ie including spouses and children. Job seekers allowance is being paid to people in work or who own properties that provide an income, that has to be tightened up.
The amount of people with "bad backs" claiming disability benefits has to looked into, not carte blanche reductions as they have just done, but proper individual medicals on people with certain disabilities that prevent them working, ok if your born without arms or lose them in a car accident it is pretty obvious they wont grow back, if you lose a leg in Afghanistan it wont re-appear, some disabilities can be issued long term, some need updates on their conditions and so on. Whatever it takes we need to curb the benefits system.
But other areas too, the ridiculous compensation claims, the fraudulent MP expenses, the crazy bonuses paid to Home Office executives and high ranking officials, the squandering of money on defence contracts (billions) for equipment that is not needed (whilst not procurring that which we do need), cutting back in overseas aid to countries that don't need it (until recently China got overseas aid from us) cutting back our overseas aid altogether until we can afford it.
Yes people are having a go at Immigration policies which are not conducive with making Britain a place where we can survive let alone prosper (not the immigrants personally) but they are concerned about everything, we don't want to join the list of Bankrupt Countries.
This week we will probably see our EU contributions being used once again to bail out Cyprus, EU funds and IMF loans in their billions, why did we want Cyprus in the EU ? how much were they ever able to offer us for membership, how much trade could we open up with them, they dont produce a lot that we needed and they dont buy a lot from us that we needed to import into the EU, how many other countries were the same, the EU was supposed to be about opening up new trade areas wasn't it ?
Perhaps we should take a leaf from the Billionairs Football Club owners remit and form a breakaway EU with Germany and France and anyone else who can work together with a sound financial and stable economy instead of getting every poor country into it.
After watching Sky news today Mids and how the experts have picked through Cameron's proposals, I wonder how much he can implement out of all this. The housing issue is something that only Councils can do, as they already have in place practices for deciding who is eligible for housing but only half use it.
It seems that whilst Cameron is saying one thing, it is just a ruse to confuse people into thinking he is doing something. Also it stated that all parties are now suddenly talking about immigration, when only a couple of years back it was the big subject and the reason?? UKIP and the votes the other parties stand to lose.
Personally after listening to a lot of the unbiased facts, it seems that the Tory party cannot even get their lies right. I do not trust Cameron to do the right thing in anything and certainly not where immigration is concerned. We even have Labour MP's coming out in favour of Camerons so called new laws, yet it was their party that started this nonsense by having an open door policy from everywhere in the world so they can shut up.
Is this all complete and utter hot air from a PM that has lost his way, and is this all about UKIP and nothing else? Is this just a trick to try and stem public opinion on immigration, and is it a dirty campaign to try and put UKIP's lights out?
It seems that whilst Cameron is saying one thing, it is just a ruse to confuse people into thinking he is doing something. Also it stated that all parties are now suddenly talking about immigration, when only a couple of years back it was the big subject and the reason?? UKIP and the votes the other parties stand to lose.
Personally after listening to a lot of the unbiased facts, it seems that the Tory party cannot even get their lies right. I do not trust Cameron to do the right thing in anything and certainly not where immigration is concerned. We even have Labour MP's coming out in favour of Camerons so called new laws, yet it was their party that started this nonsense by having an open door policy from everywhere in the world so they can shut up.
Is this all complete and utter hot air from a PM that has lost his way, and is this all about UKIP and nothing else? Is this just a trick to try and stem public opinion on immigration, and is it a dirty campaign to try and put UKIP's lights out?
I don't know why they are talking about tightening immigration laws, as far as I am aware they have all talked about it for years, they just do nothing about it, none of them.
What I do know is that something has to be done and it has start with getting changes to EU rules, the parties can talk all they want but without changes in the EU none of the political parties can do anything to stop EU citizens coming here, working here or claiming benefits here.
UKIP can talk all it wants but they to come under rules of the EU, they cannot just say "no you can't come here"
We can stop those from non EU countries coming, Africans, Asians etc but that is not the biggest part of the problem.
It is no good stopping them having Council Houses, if anything better that they do, as long as we have to house them, council houses are the cheapest option, paying housing benefits to private landlords costs much more and we have no control over that, that is an EU ruling ie and as I keep saying, the EU says we have to grant them the same benefits we give to UK State Citizens, therefore arrive here from an EU state tomorrow, start renting a flat/house from a private landlord, go to the benefits office and tell them your not working and what your rent is and we have to pay the bill within the rules of that which we would pay for a UK Citizen born or naturalised here. We would have to give them all other benefits they are entitled to as well, Child benefit even if their kids are still back home where they came from, job seekers allowance, disability benefits and so on.
What I do know is that something has to be done and it has start with getting changes to EU rules, the parties can talk all they want but without changes in the EU none of the political parties can do anything to stop EU citizens coming here, working here or claiming benefits here.
UKIP can talk all it wants but they to come under rules of the EU, they cannot just say "no you can't come here"
We can stop those from non EU countries coming, Africans, Asians etc but that is not the biggest part of the problem.
It is no good stopping them having Council Houses, if anything better that they do, as long as we have to house them, council houses are the cheapest option, paying housing benefits to private landlords costs much more and we have no control over that, that is an EU ruling ie and as I keep saying, the EU says we have to grant them the same benefits we give to UK State Citizens, therefore arrive here from an EU state tomorrow, start renting a flat/house from a private landlord, go to the benefits office and tell them your not working and what your rent is and we have to pay the bill within the rules of that which we would pay for a UK Citizen born or naturalised here. We would have to give them all other benefits they are entitled to as well, Child benefit even if their kids are still back home where they came from, job seekers allowance, disability benefits and so on.
Sex God
Quote by deancannock
just an idea.....
but what about no matter what country you no reside in....if claiming benifiets, you only get what your country of Birth would have paid out.
This would mean people would not want to travel to a country where their benifiet allowance would not really sustain them......but they might be willing to travel there if honestly looking for work !!!
now that sounds like a dammed good idea dean :thumbup:
could i bagsie first place in the maldives
Quote by Lizaleanrob
just an idea.....
but what about no matter what country you no reside in....if claiming benifiets, you only get what your country of Birth would have paid out.
This would mean people would not want to travel to a country where their benifiet allowance would not really sustain them......but they might be willing to travel there if honestly looking for work !!!
now that sounds like a dammed good idea dean :thumbup:
could i bagsie first place in the maldives
I have said that over and over in this thread and others but nobody seemed to think it was a good idea, at least nobody said it was ! or was it cos I said it
