No nothing to do with swinging and being large or small in the lifestyle, this is about the severe obesity in the UK 40 stone giants and the like that cost the National Health Service 1 million pounds a year just to move from homes in emergencies or for medical treatment, and cost much more in training for emergency staff, special equipment.
I am just watching a program on Channel 5 about the severely obese, now I doubt if any of these people are in the scene most cannot even leave thier bedrooms, is there anything we can do about this expanding (no pun intended) situation, for myself I have no idea what could be done but I am just looking at a specially built amubulance costing £90,000 and a wheeled stretcher that is built to handle 46 stone.
Some of these people have my sympathy, I guess they all have because I doubt many of them choose to be thier weight but I also think about the added burden on the NHS and fire service.
This amubulance and stretcher are based in London, how can we do the same for the rest of the Country at that cost, even if we only try to cater for heavily populated areas, os ot fair to have these facilities just for a select few, do we have to tell others to move to London or big cities ?
The very subject itself can invoke a passionate response both positive and negative.
We are talking about 1 million people in England alone who are classed as modbidly obese with an average weight of over 35 stones, the number of people has increased to double the figure in the last 10 years and it is estimated that this nuber will double again in the next 5 years.
Please, if your on the larger size, this doesn't apply to you, don't get offended, it is about morbidly obese people in the same way we would discuss those with anorexia.
A normal scanner can take 24 stone, there is one available now that can take half a ton but it cost £1 million plus of course the cost of transporting the guy they are showing using it on a 8 hour round trip to use it, as he has a tumour he has to have a scan quite regularly, unfortunately even this scanner is struggling with him and he is in danger of getting stuck in it.
Is there anything that can be done to ease thier suffering and ease the burden on the rest of us because it is a burden.
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Obesity
Quote by MidsCouple24
Some of these people have my sympathy, I guess they all have because I doubt many of them choose to be thier weight but I also think about the added burden on the NHS and fire service.
sorry mids they do not get mine. in the vast majority of these kinds of cases it is self inflicted. these peeple have very low self esteems, and comfort eat. it is without a doubt a mental illness. but often these peeple choose to live there lives in this fashion. so i have no sympathy at all for anyone who deliberately eats to such an excess that they end of being a massive burden on themselves and the NHS and more importantly seriously damaging there own health to the point in some cases of literally eating yourself to death.
Quote by MidsCouple24
The very subject itself can invoke a passionate response both positive and negative.
i do not see anything positive at all with peeple who get to 35 stone and over, there are only negatives .
Quote by MidsCouple24
Is there anything that can be done to ease thier suffering and ease the burden on the rest of us because it is a burden.
stop the food from coming into the house at source. how can we possibly do that? we cannot so peeple will continue to live there lives around food, and then blame everything and everyone else for there problems except the real problem,,, there inability to stop eating. harsh maybe mids, but the truth.
i have seen some of the comments in threads about that young girl who was recently taken into hospital. check the history in that case mids. of how this young girl was looking after HER elderly parents as well. how her parents allowe3d her to spend massive amounts of money on take away foods, delivered to there door. also how money was raised for this girl to be sent to america to lose weight. she did but came back and ended up almost being double the weight. surely peeple should take account for there own actions as well?
Well yes but I sympathise because as an ex smoker (only 2 months but winning) who tried to give up so many times over the years I know how difficult it can be to give up something you enjoy, I would like to think that had my smoking done as much to harm me as severe obesity does I would have stopped before it got out of control but who know.
I sympathise because to get into that state no matter what the reason cannot be easy, I guess it just spirals out of control, I agree with the help yourself or go it alone policy highlighted in the programme when one man's surgery was cancelled until he lost 2 stone, a minor part of his 36 stone but would be proof to the Doctors that he was trying to help himself because as your story of the girl highlights, if they are not willing to help themselves the Doctors work is going to be a waste (waist pun) of time.
I think that severe obesity is akin to anorexia a bit of a mental disease though the excuse my mom died, I had a bad childhood, my bike chain broke etc is irrelevant, many people suffer setbacks, bereavement and worse but dont let it affect thier lives in such ways.
I ask anyone who uses such an excuse for anything they do that is wrong "does that mean we should forgive paedophiles who do it after being abused themselves as a child because it was thier own abuse that made them abuse children" ?
The problem with forcing them into not eating is the PC world we now live in, how long before the case is before the European Court of Human Rights and someone is in jail for starving a victim (the words they would use not mine)
But am I right in thinking that sometimes anorexics are force fed ? I would support a forced diet
I sympathise because to get into that state no matter what the reason cannot be easy, I guess it just spirals out of control, I agree with the help yourself or go it alone policy highlighted in the programme when one man's surgery was cancelled until he lost 2 stone, a minor part of his 36 stone but would be proof to the Doctors that he was trying to help himself because as your story of the girl highlights, if they are not willing to help themselves the Doctors work is going to be a waste (waist pun) of time.
I think that severe obesity is akin to anorexia a bit of a mental disease though the excuse my mom died, I had a bad childhood, my bike chain broke etc is irrelevant, many people suffer setbacks, bereavement and worse but dont let it affect thier lives in such ways.
I ask anyone who uses such an excuse for anything they do that is wrong "does that mean we should forgive paedophiles who do it after being abused themselves as a child because it was thier own abuse that made them abuse children" ?
The problem with forcing them into not eating is the PC world we now live in, how long before the case is before the European Court of Human Rights and someone is in jail for starving a victim (the words they would use not mine)
But am I right in thinking that sometimes anorexics are force fed ? I would support a forced diet
Sex God
watch the series the men that made us fat on bbc2
scary stuff
scary stuff
Sex God
watch the series the men that made us fat on bbc2
scary stuff
scary stuff
I'm with starlight on this. ZERO sympathy from me. Yes it may be a mental health issue, but 40 stone?!?! For me personally the time I let myself go to 14 stone I felt I was letting myself go. At 20 stone alarm bells must surely be starting to ring. 30 stone and you've no excuses, do something about it. 40 stone... You simply cannot get to that kind of weight without noticing something isn't quite right...
Sounds harsh I know and before it's said, I'm not just another rider on the size 0 bandwagon. I like curves on a woman and I don't see a problem with anyone up to around 20 stone.
Sounds harsh I know and before it's said, I'm not just another rider on the size 0 bandwagon. I like curves on a woman and I don't see a problem with anyone up to around 20 stone.
Quote by Gee_Wizz
I'm with starlight on this. ZERO sympathy from me. Yes it may be a mental health issue, but 40 stone?!?! For me personally the time I let myself go to 14 stone I felt I was letting myself go. At 20 stone alarm bells must surely be starting to ring. 30 stone and you've no excuses, do something about it. 40 stone... You simply cannot get to that kind of weight without noticing something isn't quite right...
Sounds harsh I know and before it's said, I'm not just another rider on the size 0 bandwagon. I like curves on a woman and I don't see a problem with anyone up to around 20 stone.
Fair point of view, but can I ask what you think about anorexics, no sympathy for them either with thier mental health issue ?
Sex God
after watching last weeks program sugars like fructose corn/sugars and sucrose are believed to prevent the chemical in the liver that stops the brain from being informed you have enough sugars in your diet
so your brain leads you to believe you need more food in the form of sugars really guys watch the program before you post some badly misconceived ideas
so your brain leads you to believe you need more food in the form of sugars really guys watch the program before you post some badly misconceived ideas
Quote by MidsCouple24
I'm with starlight on this. ZERO sympathy from me. Yes it may be a mental health issue, but 40 stone?!?! For me personally the time I let myself go to 14 stone I felt I was letting myself go. At 20 stone alarm bells must surely be starting to ring. 30 stone and you've no excuses, do something about it. 40 stone... You simply cannot get to that kind of weight without noticing something isn't quite right...
Sounds harsh I know and before it's said, I'm not just another rider on the size 0 bandwagon. I like curves on a woman and I don't see a problem with anyone up to around 20 stone.
Fair point of view, but can I ask what you think about anorexics, no sympathy for them either with thier mental health issue ?
I can see where you're coming from there, but being 5 stone underweight is vastly different to 30 stone overweight. I guess partly the reason I don't feel sympathy for massively obese people is the connection between overeating and greed. I'm not religious and don't see greed as a sin in quite that sense, but morally I still see it as a negative trait.
Quote by Gee_Wizz
I'm with starlight on this. ZERO sympathy from me. Yes it may be a mental health issue, but 40 stone?!?! For me personally the time I let myself go to 14 stone I felt I was letting myself go. At 20 stone alarm bells must surely be starting to ring. 30 stone and you've no excuses, do something about it. 40 stone... You simply cannot get to that kind of weight without noticing something isn't quite right...
Sounds harsh I know and before it's said, I'm not just another rider on the size 0 bandwagon. I like curves on a woman and I don't see a problem with anyone up to around 20 stone.
Fair point of view, but can I ask what you think about anorexics, no sympathy for them either with thier mental health issue ?
I can see where you're coming from there, but being 5 stone underweight is vastly different to 30 stone overweight. I guess partly the reason I don't feel sympathy for massively obese people is the connection between overeating and greed. I'm not religious and don't see greed as a sin in quite that sense, but morally I still see it as a negative trait.
Good attempt to wrap up the excuse but it doesn't ring true in my ears, most people suffering from anorexia are slim and light to start with, losing any more than 5 stone would kill them anyway, I suppose large people could suffer from anorexia at some time in thier life but we wouldn't know until they got extremely thin, so perhaps some anorexics do lose as much weight as obese people put on. Do you see other "deadly sins" as being a reason not to sympathise, is vanity not a reason why people get anorexic ? is vanity not a sin in the same book as greed and therefore a negative trait ?
Personally I find looking at an anorexic person as repulsive as looking at a grossly obese person, but I have sympathies for both because I believe that many of them do have a mental disorder, yes with some it is pure vanity that makes them see things differently and for some it is pure greed and an inability to exercise restraint when it comes to food, or to burn off those calories when they do eat, but I cannot label every obese person in that category just because some are that way in the same way that I don't believe that all germans would be Nazis or all people wanting to wear a hoodie are going to rob me.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Good attempt to wrap up the excuse
Just to get this out of the way first, I'm not "attempting to wrap up an excuse." What you just read is my opinion, not an excuse. You're not a school teacher questioning me for being late to class and you don't own the definition of what is right and wrong here, so I'm not making any excuses for disagreeing with you...
Quote by MidsCouple24
... most people suffering from anorexia are slim and light to start with, losing any more than 5 stone would kill them anyway, I suppose large people could suffer from anorexia at some time in thier life but we wouldn't know until they got extremely thin, so perhaps some anorexics do lose as much weight as obese people put on.
I think I was a bit vague in what I mean here. the physical size difference between being 5 stone underweight and 30 stone overwight is massive, in a literal sense. You could look at someone 5 stone underweight and you might not even realise it. They could be wearing loose clothing or perhaps just seem to carry themselves in a way that it's not so obvious. You then see someone who's 30 stone overweight and there's no way you're going to miss that.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Do you see other "deadly sins" as being a reason not to sympathise, is vanity not a reason why people get anorexic ? is vanity not a sin in the same book as greed and therefore a negative trait ?
Another point missed. As per my last post, I'm not religious and so don't see greed in the "deadly sin" sense. I see it as a negative trait purely from my own personal perspective. You could dig deeper and deeper to find the root of where this opinion came from and no doubt to an extent it does come from being brought up in a society which still holds many Christian values, naturally having an impact on my sense of morals - but that is completely irrelevant anyway...
No, I don't see vanity as such a negative trait. Again I'm not religious, I've not been brought up strictly by "that" book and so my opinions come from elsewhere. I dislike extreme vanity, but then that's probably just as much to do with me disliking the rest of the personalities of people who exert this extremity.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Personally I find looking at an anorexic person as repulsive as looking at a grossly obese person, but I have sympathies for both because I believe that many of them do have a mental disorder, yes with some it is pure vanity that makes them see things differently and for some it is pure greed and an inability to exercise restraint when it comes to food, or to burn off those calories when they do eat, but I cannot label every obese person in that category just because some are that way in the same way that I don't believe that all germans would be Nazis or all people wanting to wear a hoodie are going to rob me.
That's fair what you say about labelling people based on one characteristic. The way I see it is that - to use your Nazi Germany analogy;
Overweight people = Germany
Massively Obese people = Nazi's within Germany
Overweight people are fine. This might sound a bit unusual given what I've already said, but I find the current black & white world of being over or under weight far too definitive. Within reason (by that I suppose I mean the scope for under/overweight ought to be broadened), the weight you are most comfortable at as an individual should be your benchmark, not what some surveys conducted 20 years ago suggest.
Quote by Gee_Wizz
Good attempt to wrap up the excuse
Just to get this out of the way first, I'm not "attempting to wrap up an excuse." What you just read is my opinion, not an excuse. You're not a school teacher questioning me for being late to class and you don't own the definition of what is right and wrong here, so I'm not making any excuses for disagreeing with you...
Then you should have felt no need to explain yourself in the first place. I respect your opinion but asked how you felt about anorexia as a mental illness in comparison with gross obesity, it was you who then started quoting the bible as a reason for finding sympathy in only one of the problems.
Quote by MidsCouple24
... most people suffering from anorexia are slim and light to start with, losing any more than 5 stone would kill them anyway, I suppose large people could suffer from anorexia at some time in thier life but we wouldn't know until they got extremely thin, so perhaps some anorexics do lose as much weight as obese people put on.
I think I was a bit vague in what I mean here. the physical size difference between being 5 stone underweight and 30 stone overwight is massive, in a literal sense. You could look at someone 5 stone underweight and you might not even realise it. They could be wearing loose clothing or perhaps just seem to carry themselves in a way that it's not so obvious. You then see someone who's 30 stone overweight and there's no way you're going to miss that.
Noticing this or not is irrelevant, if someone has lost 5 stones because of anorexia they are still anorexic, the time will come when you will notice thier weight loss in the same way that someone with an obesity problem merely looks overweight to start with, there are people on this site who are 5 stones overweight, for most it will not affect thier lives one iota but some may have a mental problem and join the ranks of the seriously obese and end up at 30 stone or more. one looks overweight, one looks underweight, then comes the time when it becomes obvious that there is a real problem, to me both deserve some sympathy.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Do you see other "deadly sins" as being a reason not to sympathise, is vanity not a reason why people get anorexic ? is vanity not a sin in the same book as greed and therefore a negative trait ?
Another point missed. As per my last post, I'm not religious and so don't see greed in the "deadly sin" sense. I see it as a negative trait purely from my own personal perspective. You could dig deeper and deeper to find the root of where this opinion came from and no doubt to an extent it does come from being brought up in a society which still holds many Christian values, naturally having an impact on my sense of morals - but that is completely irrelevant anyway...
No, I don't see vanity as such a negative trait. Again I'm not religious, I've not been brought up strictly by "that" book and so my opinions come from elsewhere. I dislike extreme vanity, but then that's probably just as much to do with me disliking the rest of the personalities of people who exert this extremity.
It was not me that brought up the reference to the bible and the deadly sins I merely continued the post in the vein you had started. So forget the bible, forget the deadly sins but the facts are the same, vanity and greed can cause problems, in thier extreme they can cost lives and money.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Personally I find looking at an anorexic person as repulsive as looking at a grossly obese person, but I have sympathies for both because I believe that many of them do have a mental disorder, yes with some it is pure vanity that makes them see things differently and for some it is pure greed and an inability to exercise restraint when it comes to food, or to burn off those calories when they do eat, but I cannot label every obese person in that category just because some are that way in the same way that I don't believe that all germans would be Nazis or all people wanting to wear a hoodie are going to rob me.
That's fair what you say about labelling people based on one characteristic. The way I see it is that - to use your Nazi Germany analogy;
Overweight people = Germany
Massively Obese people = Nazi's within Germany
Overweight people are fine. This might sound a bit unusual given what I've already said, but I find the current black & white world of being over or under weight far too definitive. Within reason (by that I suppose I mean the scope for under/overweight ought to be broadened), the weight you are most comfortable at as an individual should be your benchmark, not what some surveys conducted 20 years ago suggest.
But we are not talking about overweight or underweight people, we are discussing serious obesity and now anorexia too which both cause an early demise and a drain on the NHS, however anorexics do not require oversized beds, oversized ambulances, special teams trained in how to handle large loads.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Good attempt to wrap up the excuse
Just to get this out of the way first, I'm not "attempting to wrap up an excuse." What you just read is my opinion, not an excuse. You're not a school teacher questioning me for being late to class and you don't own the definition of what is right and wrong here, so I'm not making any excuses for disagreeing with you...
Then you should have felt no need to explain yourself in the first place. I respect your opinion but asked how you felt about anorexia as a mental illness in comparison with gross obesity, it was you who then started quoting the bible as a reason for finding sympathy in only one of the problems.
I wasn't explaining myself. You said it yourself, you asked a question, so I answered it...
Quote by MidsCouple24
... most people suffering from anorexia are slim and light to start with, losing any more than 5 stone would kill them anyway, I suppose large people could suffer from anorexia at some time in thier life but we wouldn't know until they got extremely thin, so perhaps some anorexics do lose as much weight as obese people put on.
I think I was a bit vague in what I mean here. the physical size difference between being 5 stone underweight and 30 stone overwight is massive, in a literal sense. You could look at someone 5 stone underweight and you might not even realise it. They could be wearing loose clothing or perhaps just seem to carry themselves in a way that it's not so obvious. You then see someone who's 30 stone overweight and there's no way you're going to miss that.
Noticing this or not is irrelevant, if someone has lost 5 stones because of anorexia they are still anorexic, the time will come when you will notice thier weight loss in the same way that someone with an obesity problem merely looks overweight to start with, there are people on this site who are 5 stones overweight, for most it will not affect thier lives one iota but some may have a mental problem and join the ranks of the seriously obese and end up at 30 stone or more. one looks overweight, one looks underweight, then comes the time when it becomes obvious that there is a real problem, to me both deserve some sympathy.
It is relevant because of how it doesn't go unnoticed (either by yourself or by others) and the pressure put on an individual to do something about the problem. It's also relevant in that there's a much finer line between being underweight and anorexic, and so much less opportunity to spot a problem may be occurring in the first place. To simplify, if you stop eating completely for a few months you can lose 5 stone then someone slaps you with the anorexia label. Try overeating by 30, 20, 10 or even just 5 stone in the same amount of time, and even then you might not be labelled obese. Stop eating for a few months and you won't spend a thing. To eat enough food to get that big is not cheap! Do you follow?
In a sentence, there's a lot more warning and opportunity to do something to prevent yourself from getting to 30 stone overweight than there is to end up 5 stone under, and going back to my original post I don't understand how people can ignore the alarm bells so much that they reach 40 stone before doing something about it - hence no sympathy from me...
Quote by MidsCouple24
Do you see other "deadly sins" as being a reason not to sympathise, is vanity not a reason why people get anorexic ? is vanity not a sin in the same book as greed and therefore a negative trait ?
Another point missed. As per my last post, I'm not religious and so don't see greed in the "deadly sin" sense. I see it as a negative trait purely from my own personal perspective. You could dig deeper and deeper to find the root of where this opinion came from and no doubt to an extent it does come from being brought up in a society which still holds many Christian values, naturally having an impact on my sense of morals - but that is completely irrelevant anyway...
No, I don't see vanity as such a negative trait. Again I'm not religious, I've not been brought up strictly by "that" book and so my opinions come from elsewhere. I dislike extreme vanity, but then that's probably just as much to do with me disliking the rest of the personalities of people who exert this extremity.
It was not me that brought up the reference to the bible and the deadly sins I merely continued the post in the vein you had started. So forget the bible, forget the deadly sins but the facts are the same, vanity and greed can cause problems, in thier extreme they can cost lives and money.
I said I don't see it in a religious way right from the start, and I didn't quote the bible... Nothing more to it than that. Just a brief comment in passing to say that the following opinion is my own which I justify myself and is not drummed into my by any 'ancient' text... I meant absolutely nothing more than that... A "vein I started" and (thought I had) ended all at the same time.Quote by MidsCouple24
Personally I find looking at an anorexic person as repulsive as looking at a grossly obese person, but I have sympathies for both because I believe that many of them do have a mental disorder, yes with some it is pure vanity that makes them see things differently and for some it is pure greed and an inability to exercise restraint when it comes to food, or to burn off those calories when they do eat, but I cannot label every obese person in that category just because some are that way in the same way that I don't believe that all germans would be Nazis or all people wanting to wear a hoodie are going to rob me.
That's fair what you say about labelling people based on one characteristic. The way I see it is that - to use your Nazi Germany analogy;
Overweight people = Germany
Massively Obese people = Nazi's within Germany
Overweight people are fine. This might sound a bit unusual given what I've already said, but I find the current black & white world of being over or under weight far too definitive. Within reason (by that I suppose I mean the scope for under/overweight ought to be broadened), the weight you are most comfortable at as an individual should be your benchmark, not what some surveys conducted 20 years ago suggest.
But we are not talking about overweight or underweight people, we are discussing serious obesity and now anorexia too which both cause an early demise and a drain on the NHS, however anorexics do not require oversized beds, oversized ambulances, special teams trained in how to handle large loads.
Yes, we are talking about overweight and underweight. Obesity and anorexia are the extremes of the two, and I used your Nazi analogy to show you how I sub-categorize the extremities which in turn I had hoped would help clarify my point of view (read: lack of sympathy) on obesity as not just being an opinion/label I slap onto a broad group of people. Apparently this wasn't clear enough either.
I do understand what your saying I just don't understand why your saying it.
Yes at 30 stone you know you have a problem, many think it is a mental health problem, it is very very obvious that you are in trouble, diabetes has probably arrived, an inability to walk unaided perhaps even get out of bed, but I am 9 stones, if I lose 5 stones it will be equally obvious that I have a problem, I will be dying, people will be talking about force feeding, I will have an equally hard time moving, I will be forcing myself to vomit anything I eat if indeed I eat anything, but still some continue to make themselves lose weight ..... and they will get your sympathy and that of most others, yet take it in the other direction ...... if I put on 5 stones I would be 14 stone nearly double the weight I averaged in my life, and if I am continuing to live the same lifestyle, eat without restraint or excerise, over indulge etc I am on my way to gross obesity, why ? I am an adult, I must know what I am doing to myself and what the consequences will be, surely there must be underlying reasons for this, another 5 stones will surely follow, for some it will be pure greed in the same way that some people end up as anorexics because of vanity and peer pressure, it causes mental instability making the problem a mental health issue and one that perhaps deserves sympathy, some try to fight the problem some don't care, if you truly agree with the German/Nazi scenario you must agree that some deserve our sympathy, smypathy but not acceptance, whilst I sympathise with them I started this thread saying "something has to be done about the problems it causes to the rest of us.
Yes at 30 stone you know you have a problem, many think it is a mental health problem, it is very very obvious that you are in trouble, diabetes has probably arrived, an inability to walk unaided perhaps even get out of bed, but I am 9 stones, if I lose 5 stones it will be equally obvious that I have a problem, I will be dying, people will be talking about force feeding, I will have an equally hard time moving, I will be forcing myself to vomit anything I eat if indeed I eat anything, but still some continue to make themselves lose weight ..... and they will get your sympathy and that of most others, yet take it in the other direction ...... if I put on 5 stones I would be 14 stone nearly double the weight I averaged in my life, and if I am continuing to live the same lifestyle, eat without restraint or excerise, over indulge etc I am on my way to gross obesity, why ? I am an adult, I must know what I am doing to myself and what the consequences will be, surely there must be underlying reasons for this, another 5 stones will surely follow, for some it will be pure greed in the same way that some people end up as anorexics because of vanity and peer pressure, it causes mental instability making the problem a mental health issue and one that perhaps deserves sympathy, some try to fight the problem some don't care, if you truly agree with the German/Nazi scenario you must agree that some deserve our sympathy, smypathy but not acceptance, whilst I sympathise with them I started this thread saying "something has to be done about the problems it causes to the rest of us.
I'm sharing my opinion for the same reason everyone else here is sharing theirs. I've tried my best to explain why I feel sympathy for people who are anorexic, but not people who are grossly obese. To me it's not just as simple as being the same thing, but in the other direction. My sympathy goes to people who get to 20 stone and try to make changes. It goes to people who reach 25 stone less and long before you reach 40 stone my sympathy will have vanished. Harsh, maybe. That's just the way I feel. 
Then all is cool, you have had your say I have had mine and we can agree to disagree on wether any of them deserve sympathy or not, thankyou for listening I hope we can share the forums again soon either in agreement or otherwise I respect your right to your opinion and your ability to argue your case in a calm and reasonable manner.
Sex God
Obesity at much lesser levels than you are talking about here has the potential to bankrupt the NHS in the next 20 years or so.
Type 2 diabetes is increasing exponentially as the growing and ageing population eats more food that has poor nutritional value and fail to get enough exercise.
We can't expect the government to protect us from ourselves in this instance and we can't blame anyone but ourselves.
Type 2 diabetes is increasing exponentially as the growing and ageing population eats more food that has poor nutritional value and fail to get enough exercise.
We can't expect the government to protect us from ourselves in this instance and we can't blame anyone but ourselves.
Interesting points but I think I will have to add my pennies worth:
The issue is not as simple as greed and people eating too much. Firstly, obesity itself is a disease entity much like arthritis or glaucoma and not just a manifestation of over eating. Man was not meant to have three set meals a day, hence the massive amount of heart disease out there in seemingly normal weight people. Therefore, most diseases are as a result of self-mutilation and that argument means anyone who has 'harmed' their body themselves for their personal indulgence should be treated unequally? What about the guy who enjoys reading and becomes short-sighted, or the one who plays rugby and regularly injures himself placing burden on the NHS and eventually needing joint replacements. Therefore, once you have denied care or forced your treatments upon the obese, then the smokers, then the drinkers, you can simply go on and on. Secondly, what about those patients who become obese secondary to another condition such as due to arthritis or back problems and so they can't exercise. We then start giving people different grades of obesity based on their cause. And aren't we just the product of our genes - so genetic engineering must be the answer.
The truth is that obesity itself isn't the major problem, the problem is from the way society supports ill health. We are social animals and so ill health has a major social interaction, therefore our current state of obesity is not just down to individuals (though they have a major part) but society. Obesity is not the only thing we have, the long-term unemployed for mental illness and other physical illnesses such as chronic back pain are also massive burdens on society. As a point on the side, though back pain exists throughout the world, disability due to chronic back pain ONLY exists where there is a social security/compensation system with a western type healthcare system. People in the rainforests are bed bound due to TB and malaria but not chronic back pain, whereas here we have thousands off sick for life due to this.
I am not saying that all people with such conditions are making their pain up, but the fact that we as a society reward this and fail to help people properly, simply because it is easier to do this and then blame them. Once you start rationing or forcing healthcare, or start blaming people for their illness then you are on a very slippery slope. Hence, each case must be taken as a seperate entity and our social system needs to change to help support people becoming valuable members of the society.
Anyway none of this really matters because our governments will make sure there is no NHS over the next decade along with no pensions, so we will probably be more like a third world country than any third world country already is.
The issue is not as simple as greed and people eating too much. Firstly, obesity itself is a disease entity much like arthritis or glaucoma and not just a manifestation of over eating. Man was not meant to have three set meals a day, hence the massive amount of heart disease out there in seemingly normal weight people. Therefore, most diseases are as a result of self-mutilation and that argument means anyone who has 'harmed' their body themselves for their personal indulgence should be treated unequally? What about the guy who enjoys reading and becomes short-sighted, or the one who plays rugby and regularly injures himself placing burden on the NHS and eventually needing joint replacements. Therefore, once you have denied care or forced your treatments upon the obese, then the smokers, then the drinkers, you can simply go on and on. Secondly, what about those patients who become obese secondary to another condition such as due to arthritis or back problems and so they can't exercise. We then start giving people different grades of obesity based on their cause. And aren't we just the product of our genes - so genetic engineering must be the answer.
The truth is that obesity itself isn't the major problem, the problem is from the way society supports ill health. We are social animals and so ill health has a major social interaction, therefore our current state of obesity is not just down to individuals (though they have a major part) but society. Obesity is not the only thing we have, the long-term unemployed for mental illness and other physical illnesses such as chronic back pain are also massive burdens on society. As a point on the side, though back pain exists throughout the world, disability due to chronic back pain ONLY exists where there is a social security/compensation system with a western type healthcare system. People in the rainforests are bed bound due to TB and malaria but not chronic back pain, whereas here we have thousands off sick for life due to this.
I am not saying that all people with such conditions are making their pain up, but the fact that we as a society reward this and fail to help people properly, simply because it is easier to do this and then blame them. Once you start rationing or forcing healthcare, or start blaming people for their illness then you are on a very slippery slope. Hence, each case must be taken as a seperate entity and our social system needs to change to help support people becoming valuable members of the society.
Anyway none of this really matters because our governments will make sure there is no NHS over the next decade along with no pensions, so we will probably be more like a third world country than any third world country already is.
So your saying, who cares about the cost and let's just ignore it because people playing rugby and reading are a burden too. or do you actually think we need to do something about it and if so what ?
That was what I asked at the start of the thread, not all obesity is unavoidable through genes or mental problems, measures have been put in to combat the smoking issue and that has made vast improvements to the situation, we are told of the benefits of diet and excercise and whilst many people are fitter because of it there are those that the campaign is not affecting.
You can't just ignore all the problems because there are so many, one step at a time, the anti smoking campaign is making inroads, now tackle the next problem obesity then move on to the chronic back problems, diabetes and more.
That was what I asked at the start of the thread, not all obesity is unavoidable through genes or mental problems, measures have been put in to combat the smoking issue and that has made vast improvements to the situation, we are told of the benefits of diet and excercise and whilst many people are fitter because of it there are those that the campaign is not affecting.
You can't just ignore all the problems because there are so many, one step at a time, the anti smoking campaign is making inroads, now tackle the next problem obesity then move on to the chronic back problems, diabetes and more.
Just watching the program "fat families" on Sky Living, and it is nothing short of disgusting.
This woman has just been shopping where she has to use a mobility scooter to get round the shop, with a trolly full of crisps, chocolate and cakes they went on to the chinese buffet were sadly the owners are well out of pocket after the 3 members of the family (all triple their recommended weight) visited.
Shopping and dinner done, flat out on the settee and another 10 packets of crips downed in one session she is now crying because she is too fat, she requires breathing apparatus to sleep or her own body fat might suffocate her.
Recieving mobility benefits because she can't walk are we helping her kill herself ?
With the current round of benefit cuts for the disabled harming the genuine, non-self inflicted people is it right that we give her the money to kill herself ?
Crying for the TV cameras she posts pictures of herself on the internet because she is proud of her 33 stone body (aged 39), her husband at 40 stone and mother living with her at 22 stones (aged 56) means that there we are actually paying 3 portions of mobility benefit into the household, we pay the rent because they are all unemployed due to weight problems, we pay their council tax and jobseekers allowance though their days are spent eating not seeking employment.
How can this be right ? is it not criminal for the government to help these people, welfare state assisting people to kill themselves ?
Of course as an isolated case it would be one thing but we all know that obesity is rife in the UK.
This woman has just been shopping where she has to use a mobility scooter to get round the shop, with a trolly full of crisps, chocolate and cakes they went on to the chinese buffet were sadly the owners are well out of pocket after the 3 members of the family (all triple their recommended weight) visited.
Shopping and dinner done, flat out on the settee and another 10 packets of crips downed in one session she is now crying because she is too fat, she requires breathing apparatus to sleep or her own body fat might suffocate her.
Recieving mobility benefits because she can't walk are we helping her kill herself ?
With the current round of benefit cuts for the disabled harming the genuine, non-self inflicted people is it right that we give her the money to kill herself ?
Crying for the TV cameras she posts pictures of herself on the internet because she is proud of her 33 stone body (aged 39), her husband at 40 stone and mother living with her at 22 stones (aged 56) means that there we are actually paying 3 portions of mobility benefit into the household, we pay the rent because they are all unemployed due to weight problems, we pay their council tax and jobseekers allowance though their days are spent eating not seeking employment.
How can this be right ? is it not criminal for the government to help these people, welfare state assisting people to kill themselves ?
Of course as an isolated case it would be one thing but we all know that obesity is rife in the UK.
if you lot stumped up some more of the cash you waste they could have two holidays a year not just suffer one
Sex God
Jed,
Agree with you on this one !! What the solution is I don't know, but anything involving depriving them of their "treats" ie, unhealthy food, would surely be against their human rights.
Personally, I'd raise the tax on junk food and use the cash raised to lower the price of healthy food.
John
Agree with you on this one !! What the solution is I don't know, but anything involving depriving them of their "treats" ie, unhealthy food, would surely be against their human rights.
Personally, I'd raise the tax on junk food and use the cash raised to lower the price of healthy food.
John
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
Just watching the program "fat families" on Sky Living, and it is nothing short of disgusting.
This woman has just been shopping where she has to use a mobility scooter to get round the shop, with a trolly full of crisps, chocolate and cakes they went on to the chinese buffet were sadly the owners are well out of pocket after the 3 members of the family (all triple their recommended weight) visited.
Shopping and dinner done, flat out on the settee and another 10 packets of crips downed in one session she is now crying because she is too fat, she requires breathing apparatus to sleep or her own body fat might suffocate her.
Recieving mobility benefits because she can't walk are we helping her kill herself ?
With the current round of benefit cuts for the disabled harming the genuine, non-self inflicted people is it right that we give her the money to kill herself ?
Crying for the TV cameras she posts pictures of herself on the internet because she is proud of her 33 stone body (aged 39), her husband at 40 stone and mother living with her at 22 stones (aged 56) means that there we are actually paying 3 portions of mobility benefit into the household, we pay the rent because they are all unemployed due to weight problems, we pay their council tax and jobseekers allowance though their days are spent eating not seeking employment.
How can this be right ? is it not criminal for the government to help these people, welfare state assisting people to kill themselves ?
Of course as an isolated case it would be one thing but we all know that obesity is rife in the UK.
you do realise that serious obesity is a corporate made problem and is not down to being lazy or idol
you really should watch the series "the men that made us fat" im sure if you was to watch the series on iplayer then you would really understand why we have the problem now and didn't have it 40 years ago
Sex God
I have seen my weight creep up and did nothing about it until I saw some pictures that we took on holiday in Feb.
Two and a bit months down the road and I have said good-bye to 10 kilo's. It surprised me how easy it was and there was an added benefit of saving an absolute fortune in food costs. Some people might view a mainly liquid only diet as being extreme but it proved to me just how little you actually need to survive. After a few days, my body adapted and I did not get cravings or hunger pangs and I just made sure that one day a week I ate normally.
I don't think that there is any excuse at all to be massively overweight when it is so simple to just cut the crap and eat less. A great austerity measure as well!
Two and a bit months down the road and I have said good-bye to 10 kilo's. It surprised me how easy it was and there was an added benefit of saving an absolute fortune in food costs. Some people might view a mainly liquid only diet as being extreme but it proved to me just how little you actually need to survive. After a few days, my body adapted and I did not get cravings or hunger pangs and I just made sure that one day a week I ate normally.
I don't think that there is any excuse at all to be massively overweight when it is so simple to just cut the crap and eat less. A great austerity measure as well!
For most it is not about quantity it is about eating sensibility, this woman ate enough cream cakes per week to host a childrens party, a minimum of 8 packets of crisps a day, huge portion meals of the most fatty kind and even when she could excersise chose to use the supermarkets disable scooters rather than walk round the aisles, I have said it before and will say it again, some people have medical problems causing obesity, and they have my sympathy but too many people claim it is medical when it is simply greed.
I find it very hard obese people are as happy as they claim to be with their looks and weight, with the risks of diabetes and more.
How can you shuffle around (nearly said run around) claiming "I am so pleased I am seriously at risk from diabetes, heart disease, liver failure, amutation, covered in sores, can't walk properly, can't tie my own shoelaces and can't play with my children or grandchildren"
To me anyone who says "I am happy to be fat" has a major problem either won't admit it or admits it but puts on a brave front, being polite to such people is doing them harm not a favour.
There is little more we can do with education, people know eating fatty foods is bad for them, school canteens and shops know it, everyone knows it, but we allow it, we do need to do something about it, for their sakes and to save a fortune in disability benefits, other benefits and the cost to the NHS.
I find it very hard obese people are as happy as they claim to be with their looks and weight, with the risks of diabetes and more.
How can you shuffle around (nearly said run around) claiming "I am so pleased I am seriously at risk from diabetes, heart disease, liver failure, amutation, covered in sores, can't walk properly, can't tie my own shoelaces and can't play with my children or grandchildren"
To me anyone who says "I am happy to be fat" has a major problem either won't admit it or admits it but puts on a brave front, being polite to such people is doing them harm not a favour.
There is little more we can do with education, people know eating fatty foods is bad for them, school canteens and shops know it, everyone knows it, but we allow it, we do need to do something about it, for their sakes and to save a fortune in disability benefits, other benefits and the cost to the NHS.
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
Just watching the program "fat families" on Sky Living, and it is nothing short of disgusting.
This woman has just been shopping where she has to use a mobility scooter to get round the shop, with a trolly full of crisps, chocolate and cakes they went on to the chinese buffet were sadly the owners are well out of pocket after the 3 members of the family (all triple their recommended weight) visited.
Shopping and dinner done, flat out on the settee and another 10 packets of crips downed in one session she is now crying because she is too fat, she requires breathing apparatus to sleep or her own body fat might suffocate her.
Recieving mobility benefits because she can't walk are we helping her kill herself ?
With the current round of benefit cuts for the disabled harming the genuine, non-self inflicted people is it right that we give her the money to kill herself ?
Crying for the TV cameras she posts pictures of herself on the internet because she is proud of her 33 stone body (aged 39), her husband at 40 stone and mother living with her at 22 stones (aged 56) means that there we are actually paying 3 portions of mobility benefit into the household, we pay the rent because they are all unemployed due to weight problems, we pay their council tax and jobseekers allowance though their days are spent eating not seeking employment.
How can this be right ? is it not criminal for the government to help these people, welfare state assisting people to kill themselves ?
Of course as an isolated case it would be one thing but we all know that obesity is rife in the UK.
you do realise that serious obesity is a corporate made problem and is not down to being lazy or idol
you really should watch the series "the men that made us fat" im sure if you was to watch the series on iplayer then you would really understand why we have the problem now and didn't have it 40 years ago
Assuming that the general population is so uneducated and stupid that they are simply unable to resist advertising messages. Like many things that get argued about on these forums this is yet another where some would have us believe that being overweight is the fault of someone else (Mrs Thatcher lol?) . The simple fact is that we are 100% responsible for what we buy and eat. Ironically, it is likely to be these same people complaining about the unfairness of many things in modern life.
Personal responsibility - end of.
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot
Just watching the program "fat families" on Sky Living, and it is nothing short of disgusting.
This woman has just been shopping where she has to use a mobility scooter to get round the shop, with a trolly full of crisps, chocolate and cakes they went on to the chinese buffet were sadly the owners are well out of pocket after the 3 members of the family (all triple their recommended weight) visited.
Shopping and dinner done, flat out on the settee and another 10 packets of crips downed in one session she is now crying because she is too fat, she requires breathing apparatus to sleep or her own body fat might suffocate her.
Recieving mobility benefits because she can't walk are we helping her kill herself ?
With the current round of benefit cuts for the disabled harming the genuine, non-self inflicted people is it right that we give her the money to kill herself ?
Crying for the TV cameras she posts pictures of herself on the internet because she is proud of her 33 stone body (aged 39), her husband at 40 stone and mother living with her at 22 stones (aged 56) means that there we are actually paying 3 portions of mobility benefit into the household, we pay the rent because they are all unemployed due to weight problems, we pay their council tax and jobseekers allowance though their days are spent eating not seeking employment.
How can this be right ? is it not criminal for the government to help these people, welfare state assisting people to kill themselves ?
Of course as an isolated case it would be one thing but we all know that obesity is rife in the UK.
you do realise that serious obesity is a corporate made problem and is not down to being lazy or idol
you really should watch the series "the men that made us fat" im sure if you was to watch the series on iplayer then you would really understand why we have the problem now and didn't have it 40 years ago
Assuming that the general population is so uneducated and stupid that they are simply unable to resist advertising messages. Like many things that get argued about on these forums this is yet another where some would have us believe that being overweight is the fault of someone else (Mrs Thatcher lol?) . The simple fact is that we are 100% responsible for what we buy and eat. Ironically, it is likely to be these same people complaining about the unfairness of many things in modern life.
Personal responsibility - end of.
I'm afraid if you watch the program you will realise that certain sugars become an addiction in the way they fool the liver into telling the brain you need sugar. It's certainly not all about advertising.
Don't take my word for it, the programs are there for all to see, mind you it must be rubbish it was 3 episodes :roll:
but then it shows the lack of open mindedness in this forum for anyone to watch it,
and as for stupid who buys saturate or sugar rich foods to the point they need to shed 10 kg and not realise ........just saying like
now let me think bunch of professors and experts from round the world explaining one thing or TH telling me he knows better
having watched the program it did change my opinion and that doesn't happen often :wink:
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
Just watching the program "fat families" on Sky Living, and it is nothing short of disgusting.
This woman has just been shopping where she has to use a mobility scooter to get round the shop, with a trolly full of crisps, chocolate and cakes they went on to the chinese buffet were sadly the owners are well out of pocket after the 3 members of the family (all triple their recommended weight) visited.
Shopping and dinner done, flat out on the settee and another 10 packets of crips downed in one session she is now crying because she is too fat, she requires breathing apparatus to sleep or her own body fat might suffocate her.
Recieving mobility benefits because she can't walk are we helping her kill herself ?
With the current round of benefit cuts for the disabled harming the genuine, non-self inflicted people is it right that we give her the money to kill herself ?
Crying for the TV cameras she posts pictures of herself on the internet because she is proud of her 33 stone body (aged 39), her husband at 40 stone and mother living with her at 22 stones (aged 56) means that there we are actually paying 3 portions of mobility benefit into the household, we pay the rent because they are all unemployed due to weight problems, we pay their council tax and jobseekers allowance though their days are spent eating not seeking employment.
How can this be right ? is it not criminal for the government to help these people, welfare state assisting people to kill themselves ?
Of course as an isolated case it would be one thing but we all know that obesity is rife in the UK.
you do realise that serious obesity is a corporate made problem and is not down to being lazy or idol
you really should watch the series "the men that made us fat" im sure if you was to watch the series on iplayer then you would really understand why we have the problem now and didn't have it 40 years ago
Assuming that the general population is so uneducated and stupid that they are simply unable to resist advertising messages. Like many things that get argued about on these forums this is yet another where some would have us believe that being overweight is the fault of someone else (Mrs Thatcher lol?) . The simple fact is that we are 100% responsible for what we buy and eat. Ironically, it is likely to be these same people complaining about the unfairness of many things in modern life.
Personal responsibility - end of.
I'm afraid if you watch the program you will realise that certain sugars become an addiction in the way they fool the liver into telling the brain you need sugar. It's certainly not all about advertising.
Don't take my word for it, the programs are there for all to see, mind you it must be rubbish it was 3 episodes :roll:
but then it shows the lack of open mindedness in this forum for anyone to watch it,
and as for stupid who buys saturate or sugar rich foods to the point they need to shed 10 kg and not realise ........just saying like
now let me think bunch of professors and experts from round the world explaining one thing or TH telling me he knows better
having watched the program it did change my opinion and that doesn't happen often :wink:
I don't doubt what you say - but it is still personal choice for you to put the crap in your mouth in the first place. Many things are addictive, but people have to take responsibility for their own bodies and lives and that really is the bottom line.
Weighing in at 19 stone and being comfortable because it was caused by big business is a pretty dumb train of thought. Whereas weighing in at 19 stone and actually making an effort to change your lifestyle and become fitter is a responsible thing to do.
Far too often are people's personal failings being blamed on someone else but no matter whose fault it is, it is the responsibility of the individual to do something about it.
