Two examples as to why so many religious problems exist in the UK today.
As I have said many times...I am not religious but surely differences in what a person can wear and then another cannot seems a bit ridiculous.
The reasons that were given with regard to the Crucifix seem ludicrous.
Either ban all religious artifacts from schools and the workplace or, allow them to be worn as long as it is a recognised item from their particular faith.
IF the last example is allowed maybe a lot more people will be tolerant of others, instead of cases like the two above which do seem to show some sort of discrimination, and that only leads to further problems.
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Religious differences
My view is that ALL religious regalia and items, regardless of faith, should only be worn on the way to and on the way back from an authorised place of worship.
There should be freedom of genuine religion, but this should be kept private and not flaunted in public places and in places of work and the like.
Pilm :sad:
There should be freedom of genuine religion, but this should be kept private and not flaunted in public places and in places of work and the like.
Pilm :sad:
As it says in the link posted: The crucifix was not banned. She could have pinned it to her uniform or tucked it inside her uniform. Sikh bangles, and any other jewellery, are also not allowed to be worn in the hospital because of infection.
I really can not see what you are saying here Kenty? Both were banned in the hopsital, so where is the problem?
The last person to comment in the link was spot on. She was advised......she chose to ignore the advice and flounced.
Dave_Notts
I really can not see what you are saying here Kenty? Both were banned in the hopsital, so where is the problem?
The last person to comment in the link was spot on. She was advised......she chose to ignore the advice and flounced.
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
As it says in the link posted: The crucifix was not banned. She could have pinned it to her uniform or tucked it inside her uniform. Sikh bangles, and any other jewellery, are also not allowed to be worn in the hospital because of infection.
I really can not see what you are saying here Kenty? Both were banned in the hopsital, so where is the problem?
The last person to comment in the link was spot on. She was advised......she chose to ignore the advice and flounced.
Dave_Notts
I am a bit confused Davey.
One was banned from the workplace and the other was allowed to be worn in school.
I think the reasons are pretty obvious.
As was talked about the other night with Nicky Campbells programme.....is Christianity being forced to take a back seat over other religions?
As I have already stated until I am blue in the face, I am NOT religious at all, but why should one religious item be banned and the other allowed? I personally think NO religious item should be worn in school...........period.
Either allow all religious items to be worn either at work or at school or down the bloody Wimpy,or do not allow any.
As was muted on the tv programme the other night,are people terrified of upsetting other faiths, but seem to do it no problem,with anything to do with Christianity.
Quote by Kaznkev
Another issue here is that the crucifix is in no way necessary to a christian,in fact if you are very low church it is frowned upon whereas in some religions certain things are vital requirements of being a member of that religion.i sense someone looking to get media attention for the evangelical rights campaign that Christians in this country are oppressed.
Nor is a Burkha to a Muslim, yet they wear them and can get through customs without having to remove it....same thing.
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
Another issue here is that the crucifix is in no way necessary to a christian,in fact if you are very low church it is frowned upon whereas in some religions certain things are vital requirements of being a member of that religion.i sense someone looking to get media attention for the evangelical rights campaign that Christians in this country are oppressed.
I think religion does rather well while being oppressed, I believe the the Romans tried it around 3000 years ago
Maybe we should crucify Kenty? Could that help?
Sex God
As I understand it, pretty well all jewellery is banned in hospitals. They even make staff wear shorter sleeves and no ties to prevent edges of fabric picking up infection and passing it on. Huge strides are being made in hygiene - you'd be amazed how filthy some pens were in hospitals.
If something is banned in the workplace there is no reason to assume it will or should be banned in a school. But it might be. The decision to ban personal decoartion is often made at bulding level, business level, or may go up to organisation or governing body.
My personal feeling is that banning 'dangly' things is perfectly sensible in situations where the could cause harm to the wearer or others. Apart from that - people should be able to wear what they like within the 'dress code'. But that should really only limit size and 'gaudiness'.
If something is banned in the workplace there is no reason to assume it will or should be banned in a school. But it might be. The decision to ban personal decoartion is often made at bulding level, business level, or may go up to organisation or governing body.
My personal feeling is that banning 'dangly' things is perfectly sensible in situations where the could cause harm to the wearer or others. Apart from that - people should be able to wear what they like within the 'dress code'. But that should really only limit size and 'gaudiness'.
Sex God
Quote by flower411
So if I may clarify the original post.
Muslims have more rights than christians and that is a bad thing.
HAvent we had this debate ad nauseum on other contentious threads by the same author? Or have I slipped through another wormhole.
It`s a war or attrition Ben, once we all stop bothering to answer, he`ll take it as vindication
He takes anything from silence to vitriol as vindication.
But then only a weak mind needs it in the first place. :D 
Sex God
correct me if i`m wrong and i probably am
if sikh girl has won her case in the high court it now becomes actual law
which would now make the banning of these religious artifacts in schools and work places very easy to challenge in a uk court
if sikh girl has won her case in the high court it now becomes actual law
which would now make the banning of these religious artifacts in schools and work places very easy to challenge in a uk court
Quote by Lizaleanrob
correct me if i`m wrong and i probably am
if sikh girl has won her case in the high court it now becomes actual law
which would now make the banning of these religious artifacts in schools and work places very easy to challenge in a uk court
Only in identical cases.......it is called a precedent, but it just means that the next judge in the next court has to use it as a guide. A guide is not to be confused with absolute though, the judge still needs to make a decision on a case by case basis.
Dave_Notts
Quote by flower411
So if I may clarify the original post.
Muslims have more rights than christians and that is a bad thing.
HAvent we had this debate ad nauseum on other contentious threads by the same author? Or have I slipped through another wormhole.
It`s a war of attrition Ben, once we all stop bothering to answer, he`ll take it as vindication
If only you would.
Quote by kentswingers777
As it says in the link posted: The crucifix was not banned. She could have pinned it to her uniform or tucked it inside her uniform. Sikh bangles, and any other jewellery, are also not allowed to be worn in the hospital because of infection.
I really can not see what you are saying here Kenty? Both were banned in the hopsital, so where is the problem?
The last person to comment in the link was spot on. She was advised......she chose to ignore the advice and flounced.
Dave_Notts
I am a bit confused Davey.
One was banned from the workplace and the other was allowed to be worn in school.
I think the reasons are pretty obvious.
As was talked about the other night with Nicky Campbells programme.....is Christianity being forced to take a back seat over other religions?
As I have already stated until I am blue in the face, I am NOT religious at all, but why should one religious item be banned and the other allowed? I personally think NO religious item should be worn in school...........period.
Either allow all religious items to be worn either at work or at school or down the bloody Wimpy,or do not allow any.
As was muted on the tv programme the other night,are people terrified of upsetting other faiths, but seem to do it no problem,with anything to do with Christianity.
I can see why you are getting confused Kenty. You should really read the links you post to support your claim.
The hospital banned the crucifix because dangly bits of jewellery are a cause of carrying infection to the vulnerable. Nothing to do with religion, as they also banned the Sikh bangle.
Now the young girl was stopped from wearing her religious bangle in a school that had a uniform policy, not an infection control problem. The bangle is integral to her religion and she wanted to wear it. When they said it was a ban on expensive jewellery, the girl pointed out that her steel bangle was worth a lot less than the watches that the other pupils wore. This is what won her the case.
So yes, there was double standards, and this girl had to go to court and win to get rid of it.
I fully support her, and think the school needs to look at it self for wasting taxpayers money by taking her to court instead of sitting down and discussing it like adults.
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
As it says in the link posted: The crucifix was not banned. She could have pinned it to her uniform or tucked it inside her uniform. Sikh bangles, and any other jewellery, are also not allowed to be worn in the hospital because of infection.
I really can not see what you are saying here Kenty? Both were banned in the hopsital, so where is the problem?
The last person to comment in the link was spot on. She was advised......she chose to ignore the advice and flounced.
Dave_Notts
I am a bit confused Davey.
One was banned from the workplace and the other was allowed to be worn in school.
I think the reasons are pretty obvious.
As was talked about the other night with Nicky Campbells programme.....is Christianity being forced to take a back seat over other religions?
As I have already stated until I am blue in the face, I am NOT religious at all, but why should one religious item be banned and the other allowed? I personally think NO religious item should be worn in school...........period.
Either allow all religious items to be worn either at work or at school or down the bloody Wimpy,or do not allow any.
As was muted on the tv programme the other night,are people terrified of upsetting other faiths, but seem to do it no problem,with anything to do with Christianity.
I can see why you are getting confused Kenty. You should really read the links you post to support your claim.
The hospital banned the crucifix because dangly bits of jewellery are a cause of carrying infection to the vulnerable. Nothing to do with religion, as they also banned the Sikh bangle.
Now the young girl was stopped from wearing her religious bangle in a school that had a uniform policy, not an infection control problem. The bangle is integral to her religion and she wanted to wear it. When they said it was a ban on expensive jewellery, the girl pointed out that her steel bangle was worth a lot less than the watches that the other pupils wore. This is what won her the case.
So yes, there was double standards, and this girl had to go to court and win to get rid of it.
I fully support her, and think the school needs to look at it self for wasting taxpayers money by taking her to court instead of sitting down and discussing it like adults.
Dave_Notts
Sorry Davey but what a load of old rubbish they have used. MRSA is rife in hospitals, people get ill all the time from germs picked up in hospitals due to poor hygiene,it has nothing to do with dangly bits of jewellry.
If they made as much noise about proper hygiene practise they may well have a right to blame dangly necklaces or whatever for causing infections but, to make an issue out of jewellry instead of the REAL causes of infections in hopsital's is to me a cop out. Maybe they should make sure EVERYONE washed their hands when entering a hospital or a ward instead of targeting jewellery?
This case was no different to the BA worker who WAS banned for wearing her crucifix....cannot think of any health issues in her line of work?
Yes I am aware that she lost her case but is it any wonder that people feel the way they do?
I think that the law now does not favour Christians over any other religion and some would say it now has to take a back seat to other religions as was said on the programme I mentioned the other night.
Quote by kentswingers777
Sorry Davey but what a load of old rubbish they have used. MRSA is rife in hospitals, people get ill all the time from germs picked up in hospitals due to poor hygiene,it has nothing to do with dangly bits of jewellry.
Bacteria (germs, bugs, nasty pasty little things) are associated with jewellery. This is why they are banned in the food and medical industry, as well as being a potential physical contaminant in the food. Now if you think that is old rubbish then so be it. You must know more than the medical practitioners and food manufacturers. I should really let them know that Kenty says it is all rubbish and what they have done for years was just a waste of time.
If they made as much noise about proper hygiene practise they may well have a right to blame dangly necklaces or whatever for causing infections but, to make an issue out of jewellry instead of the REAL causes of infections in hopsital's is to me a cop out. Maybe they should make sure EVERYONE washed their hands when entering a hospital or a ward instead of targeting jewellery?
Some eminent surgeon once said that the easiest way to cut bacterial infection by 75% is to stop visitors. However, while staying at hospital it is nice to have a visitor or two, so they allow the practice of allowing visitors.
This case was no different to the BA worker who WAS banned for wearing her crucifix....cannot think of any health issues in her line of work?
Ermmmmm how can you say that there is no difference.......then point out that the health issue is the difference? Either it is the same or it is different. Each case needs to be appraised on its own merits.
Dave_Notts
There are plenty of people Davey who say that Christianity IS being forced to take a back seat over other religions, for fear of causing offence.
Now whether that is true or not is a matter of opinion but.......that is exactly what many have been saying for a while now.
I would have thought not washing ones hands when entering a hospital or a ward, is much more of an important issue than possible contamination from a necklace?
Since the swine flu malarky Boots has lost millions of pounds on cold remedies this last winter, as because so many more people have been washing their hands through Government advice, they have not sold nowhere near as many cold remedy products OTC.
Seems to me that NOT washing your hands when entering a hospital accounts for far more cases through bad hygiene than a necklace.
I take it that a nurse or doctor has to remove their wedding or engagement rings when starting work? If not then why not? Can a necklace carry more germs than a ring?
Now whether that is true or not is a matter of opinion but.......that is exactly what many have been saying for a while now.
I would have thought not washing ones hands when entering a hospital or a ward, is much more of an important issue than possible contamination from a necklace?
Since the swine flu malarky Boots has lost millions of pounds on cold remedies this last winter, as because so many more people have been washing their hands through Government advice, they have not sold nowhere near as many cold remedy products OTC.
Seems to me that NOT washing your hands when entering a hospital accounts for far more cases through bad hygiene than a necklace.
I take it that a nurse or doctor has to remove their wedding or engagement rings when starting work? If not then why not? Can a necklace carry more germs than a ring?
Quote by kentswingers777
There are plenty of people Davey who say that Christianity IS being forced to take a back seat over other religions, for fear of causing offence.
Now whether that is true or not is a matter of opinion but.......that is exactly what many have been saying for a while now.
I would have thought not washing ones hands when entering a hospital or a ward, is much more of an important issue than possible contamination from a necklace?
Since the swine flu malarky Boots has lost millions of pounds on cold remedies this last winter, as because so many more people have been washing their hands through Government advice, they have not sold nowhere near as many cold remedy products OTC.
Seems to me that NOT washing your hands when entering a hospital accounts for far more cases through bad hygiene than a necklace.
I take it that a nurse or doctor has to remove their wedding or engagement rings when starting work? If not then why not? Can a necklace carry more germs than a ring?
The evidence for Christianity taking a back seat is anecdotal, and when the surface has been scratched to see what the actual cause is........it was in fact someone flouncing. The two most recent cases being the BA and the Hospital one. Both lost in court.
Handwashing is the best way to eliminate bacterial cross-contamination and is taught to the basic hospital worker and basic food operator. However, after this there are other causes of bacterial cross-contamination. Jewellery being one.
Using your example is like saying heroin kills more people.........so we just have to ban that one and let all the other drugs be used legally even though they kill. Can you see how that looks now.
You are right in saying jewellery is not as big a problem as handwashing, but the potential is too great to relax for some woman who wants to disregard the rules and put others lives at risk for her religious choice. If she wants to wear it, then wear it to work, from work and under her clothes while at work. Simple really
Your last point, engagement rings have to be taken off but they are allowed to wear a plain wedding band.
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
There are plenty of people Davey who say that Christianity IS being forced to take a back seat over other religions, for fear of causing offence.
Now whether that is true or not is a matter of opinion but.......that is exactly what many have been saying for a while now.
I would have thought not washing ones hands when entering a hospital or a ward, is much more of an important issue than possible contamination from a necklace?
Since the swine flu malarky Boots has lost millions of pounds on cold remedies this last winter, as because so many more people have been washing their hands through Government advice, they have not sold nowhere near as many cold remedy products OTC.
Seems to me that NOT washing your hands when entering a hospital accounts for far more cases through bad hygiene than a necklace.
I take it that a nurse or doctor has to remove their wedding or engagement rings when starting work? If not then why not? Can a necklace carry more germs than a ring?
The evidence for Christianity taking a back seat is anecdotal, and when the surface has been scratched to see what the actual cause is........it was in fact someone flouncing. The two most recent cases being the BA and the Hospital one. Both lost in court.
Handwashing is the best way to eliminate bacterial cross-contamination and is taught to the basic hospital worker and basic food operator. However, after this there are other causes of bacterial cross-contamination. Jewellery being one.
Using your example is like saying heroin kills more people.........so we just have to ban that one and let all the other drugs be used legally even though they kill. Can you see how that looks now.
You are right in saying jewellery is not as big a problem as handwashing, but the potential is too great to relax for some woman who wants to disregard the rules and put others lives at risk for her religious choice. If she wants to wear it, then wear it to work, from work and under her clothes while at work. Simple really
Your last point, engagement rings have to be taken off but they are allowed to wear a plain wedding band.
Dave_Notts
So a plain wedding band then blows Flowers theory out of the window, as he insinuated ALL rings were banned.
So IF a nurse has a plain wedding band that is quite old and scratched around the edges, can that not pick up bacteria then?
I have never heard of a necklace being the cause of anyones death or serious illness whilst in hospital...........unless the person who said all rings were banned can enlighten me?
Quote by kentswingers777
There are plenty of people Davey who say that Christianity IS being forced to take a back seat over other religions, for fear of causing offence.
Now whether that is true or not is a matter of opinion but.......that is exactly what many have been saying for a while now.
I would have thought not washing ones hands when entering a hospital or a ward, is much more of an important issue than possible contamination from a necklace?
Since the swine flu malarky Boots has lost millions of pounds on cold remedies this last winter, as because so many more people have been washing their hands through Government advice, they have not sold nowhere near as many cold remedy products OTC.
Seems to me that NOT washing your hands when entering a hospital accounts for far more cases through bad hygiene than a necklace.
I take it that a nurse or doctor has to remove their wedding or engagement rings when starting work? If not then why not? Can a necklace carry more germs than a ring?
The evidence for Christianity taking a back seat is anecdotal, and when the surface has been scratched to see what the actual cause is........it was in fact someone flouncing. The two most recent cases being the BA and the Hospital one. Both lost in court.
Handwashing is the best way to eliminate bacterial cross-contamination and is taught to the basic hospital worker and basic food operator. However, after this there are other causes of bacterial cross-contamination. Jewellery being one.
Using your example is like saying heroin kills more people.........so we just have to ban that one and let all the other drugs be used legally even though they kill. Can you see how that looks now.
You are right in saying jewellery is not as big a problem as handwashing, but the potential is too great to relax for some woman who wants to disregard the rules and put others lives at risk for her religious choice. If she wants to wear it, then wear it to work, from work and under her clothes while at work. Simple really
Your last point, engagement rings have to be taken off but they are allowed to wear a plain wedding band.
Dave_Notts
So a plain wedding band then blows Flowers theory out of the window, as he insinuated ALL rings were banned.
So IF a nurse has a plain wedding band that is quite old and scratched around the edges, can that not pick up bacteria then?
I have never heard of a necklace being the cause of anyones death or serious illness whilst in hospital...........unless the person who said all rings were banned can enlighten me?
A plain wedding band is worn on the hands. Hands are washed.
A necklace, ear-rings, nose-rings, eyebrow-rings, etc-rings are not worn on the hands and are never washed with an antibacterial soap.
Hope that clears it up for you
Dave_Notts
Master of Sex
Aren't wedding rings tradtionally gold?
Quote by kentswingers777
Well lets hope they all DO wash their hands on every occasion after using the loo or anything else they do.
Though I would have a sneaky suspicion that not all do all of the time.
Unfortunately Kenty, only 30% of the good old British and American public wash their hands after using the toilet. This is one of the main reasons of bacterial infection.......but not the only one
Dave_Notts
Quote by flower411
There are plenty of people Davey who say that Christianity IS being forced to take a back seat over other religions, for fear of causing offence.
Now whether that is true or not is a matter of opinion but.......that is exactly what many have been saying for a while now.
I would have thought not washing ones hands when entering a hospital or a ward, is much more of an important issue than possible contamination from a necklace?
Since the swine flu malarky Boots has lost millions of pounds on cold remedies this last winter, as because so many more people have been washing their hands through Government advice, they have not sold nowhere near as many cold remedy products OTC.
Seems to me that NOT washing your hands when entering a hospital accounts for far more cases through bad hygiene than a necklace.
I take it that a nurse or doctor has to remove their wedding or engagement rings when starting work? If not then why not? Can a necklace carry more germs than a ring?
The evidence for Christianity taking a back seat is anecdotal, and when the surface has been scratched to see what the actual cause is........it was in fact someone flouncing. The two most recent cases being the BA and the Hospital one. Both lost in court.
Handwashing is the best way to eliminate bacterial cross-contamination and is taught to the basic hospital worker and basic food operator. However, after this there are other causes of bacterial cross-contamination. Jewellery being one.
Using your example is like saying heroin kills more people.........so we just have to ban that one and let all the other drugs be used legally even though they kill. Can you see how that looks now.
You are right in saying jewellery is not as big a problem as handwashing, but the potential is too great to relax for some woman who wants to disregard the rules and put others lives at risk for her religious choice. If she wants to wear it, then wear it to work, from work and under her clothes while at work. Simple really
Your last point, engagement rings have to be taken off but they are allowed to wear a plain wedding band.
Dave_Notts
So a plain wedding band then blows Flowers theory out of the window, as he insinuated ALL rings were banned.
So IF a nurse has a plain wedding band that is quite old and scratched around the edges, can that not pick up bacteria then?
I have never heard of a necklace being the cause of anyones death or serious illness whilst in hospital...........unless the person who said all rings were banned can enlighten me?
Awww noooo !!! I was insinuating that I now had a perfect excuse for the nurses refusing my advances !!! :giggle:
In edit : I love the fact that you put a capital letter on my name ....makes me feel important ..... but I`m at a loss as to why ya don`t call me Flowery !!
There so many better names that I could use rather than that one.
Well if it makes you feel important flower, I had better stop....don't want you getting above your station now............do we?
Quote by Dave__Notts
Well lets hope they all DO wash their hands on every occasion after using the loo or anything else they do.
Though I would have a sneaky suspicion that not all do all of the time.
Unfortunately Kenty, only 30% of the good old British and American public wash their hands after using the toilet. This is one of the main reasons of bacterial infection.......but not the only one
Dave_Notts
No it's those damn necklaces with those damn crosses on.
Quote by Kaznkev
So someone claim not to be religious but cries foul when a muslim school girl wins a case,is this another electioneering for you know who?!.....people say christianity is taking the back seat hehehe which "people"
You`re in my head ...aren`t ya !!!
It does seem odd for somebody that claims not to be religious to keep starting threads that are clearly aimed at stirring up religious hatred .
As one of the few proclaimed christians on the site i had exactly the same thoughts,
I am not an astronaught.......but I will cast an opinion about space travel
I am not gay........but I will cast an opinion about gay issues
I am not a lot of things.......but I will cast an opinion about anything I wish to. Thats mine and your right to do. Just because you are not something does not mean you shouldn't have an opinion about it.
Dave_Notts
