I just thought I'd open this before anyone else did.
why?
because it was tosh!
what did you think?
lp
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Sex God
I enjoyed it - I was on the Facebook/debate feed chatting with my son away at uni while it was going on. It was interesting to see the way they behaved. Of course you can't believe a word they say, but the body language was informative.
Sex God
Quote by Phuckers
I think live debate has no place in British politics,it just gave them a stage to wash their dirty laundry in public thus ignoring the substance of the real issues.
I think it's a valid forum. The policies are no better or worse for being spoken. I noticed that they mainly managed to answer the questions as they were asked - unlike in interviews when they just regurgitate a speech regardless of the questions.
I did have the tv on... so heard/saw some bits.
What I would like to see is a less regulated affair.
have whomever may be 'debating' do it freely, show thier true colours through thier behaviour, and see if they can maintain any level of civil behaviour....
... and actually make any snce at the same time.
lp
What I would like to see is a less regulated affair.
have whomever may be 'debating' do it freely, show thier true colours through thier behaviour, and see if they can maintain any level of civil behaviour....
... and actually make any snce at the same time.
lp
Quote by __random_orbit__
I did have the tv on... so heard/saw some bits.
What I would like to see is a less regulated affair.
have whomever may be 'debating' do it freely, show thier true colours through thier behaviour, and see if they can maintain any level of civil behaviour....
... and actually make any snce at the same time.
lp
True the interviewer slightly irritated me by loudly interrupting
I watched it and at times it made me cringe.
Clegg came across pretty well to be honest, and Brown was his usual bumbling self, and telling porkies like he does.
Cameron was ok but was obvious he did not want to come across as being too aggressive towards Brown.
The usual tosh was spoken about what they will do and how wonderful their Manifestos are. For me Clegg seems a decent guy but in reality has no chance of winning the election. So we are left with the other two.
Brown's fecking lies over his funding of the armed forces made me feel sick, and sicker still his smarmy " I have been the soldiers friend " bollocks.
Cameron I found to be a bit disappointing as in he should have attacked Brown more than he did.
I will look forward to the next chapter and feel it gave a good insight into the leaders in the spotlight. Cameron wins the first round just.....15-0
Clegg came across pretty well to be honest, and Brown was his usual bumbling self, and telling porkies like he does.
Cameron was ok but was obvious he did not want to come across as being too aggressive towards Brown.
The usual tosh was spoken about what they will do and how wonderful their Manifestos are. For me Clegg seems a decent guy but in reality has no chance of winning the election. So we are left with the other two.
Brown's fecking lies over his funding of the armed forces made me feel sick, and sicker still his smarmy " I have been the soldiers friend " bollocks.
Cameron I found to be a bit disappointing as in he should have attacked Brown more than he did.
I will look forward to the next chapter and feel it gave a good insight into the leaders in the spotlight. Cameron wins the first round just.....15-0
Sex God
The immediate exit polls, as far as I have read, have Clegg in the lead.
Quote by Phuckers
I did have the tv on... so heard/saw some bits.
What I would like to see is a less regulated affair.
have whomever may be 'debating' do it freely, show thier true colours through thier behaviour, and see if they can maintain any level of civil behaviour....
... and actually make any snce at the same time.
lp
True the interviewer slightly irritated me by loudly interrupting
I think that was down to the 'rules'. They were only allowed a set amount of time to speak at each interval.
lp
Sex God
I watched for as long as I could... about 40 minutes. They confirmed my thoughts... they're all as bad as each other. 
Sex God
I think the rules made for quite a sterile debate, but I'm not entirely sure how it could have been held otherwise in terms of time management.
I'm watching the Question Time post mortem now, plus tracking some of the feedback on various sites. It makes for interesting listening/reading.
I'm watching the Question Time post mortem now, plus tracking some of the feedback on various sites. It makes for interesting listening/reading.
Sex God
The more i see of Cameron the less i like him, but i still like him more than jock the jellyfish
i kind of get the feeling we might just get a big suprise next month, if people make the effort to vote theres a lot who are tired of labour and mistrusting of the tories and the same old BS. maybe it is time for a change?
Quote by kentswingers777
Clegg seems a decent guy but in reality has no chance of winning the election......
i kind of get the feeling we might just get a big suprise next month, if people make the effort to vote theres a lot who are tired of labour and mistrusting of the tories and the same old BS. maybe it is time for a change?
Quote by meat2pleaseu
The more i see of Cameron the less i like him, but i still like him more than jock the jellyfish
Clegg seems a decent guy but in reality has no chance of winning the election......
i kind of get the feeling we might just get a big suprise next month, if people make the effort to vote theres a lot who are tired of labour and mistrusting of the tories and the same old BS. maybe it is time for a change?
Maybe we are due a change but..." The last Liberal government ended on 17th May 1915 when they invited the Conservative party into a coalition government. The Liberals were never to take office on their own again, however they remained a major force in national politics until they were virtually wiped-out in the 1929 general election ".
I do not think that 2010 will be much different for them.
This was a total Bore-fest with 3 not so different peas in the same Pod a-rattling.
I hope the UK electorate vote for 'None of the Above'
Could the BNP or UKIP pull off a shock 'Foinavon' by coming through on the outside and against the odds?
Perhaps a 'Gallop' poll (pun intended) might show a trend.
I hope the UK electorate vote for 'None of the Above'
Could the BNP or UKIP pull off a shock 'Foinavon' by coming through on the outside and against the odds?
Perhaps a 'Gallop' poll (pun intended) might show a trend.
Sex God
oh for the return of character like
SCREAMING LORD SUCH !!!!!!!!!
SCREAMING LORD SUCH !!!!!!!!!
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
too many speeches,but if it gets people interested in politics,it must be a good thing.
i think clegg definately came off best.
:thumbup:
exactly there r lots of people out there that don't quite manage to get there heads around politics and if this helps them then its a good thing
now i know lots of you will shoot me down and tell me that it was a load of bollux and didn't actually tell anyone anything of any use but for a political retard like myself its actually a great help to actually hear what the manifestoes are
i am married to tory boy who believes so much in them that he will never admit they have ever fucked anything up and i know they have and i certainly won't forget how labour have fucked everything up whilst they have been in and yes i do know the liberals history but even i'm sure there can't be anyone left from that time to influence the current lib dems :eeek: so i was looking forward to actually seeing all the party leaders together to hear what they had to say and try to make a judgement for myself
and mock me as you may but i sat watching avery second of it and all the post prog stuff with my pad n pen giving them all scores on how i rated their policys and i had decided not to make my judgements on how they argued stuff or body language or even tie bloody colour (being discussed on gmtv wtf??) but i purely scored on how much i agreed or disagreed on their policys
i take my vote very seriously as a woman and apart from one year, where we moved house 200 miles so truelly didn't have time and it was inevitible tony was going to win so didn't see how we could make any diff either way, i have always voted since coming of age sometimes blindly and as i even admited last night to my son that one year as i had no clue who i wanted to vote for i picked it as i do a grand national horse picked a name i liked (and yes i can see you rolling your eyes)
so this year having finally matured enough to realise just how important it is to make my vote count i have decided to put aside all pre concieved ideas about any of the parties and listen to everything they have to say at these debates and make my version of an informed decision and so far i am reluctant to admit maybe hubby was right and i really am naturally a liberal as apart from the trident thing nick clegg won the most points for me
so go on mock away i can take it
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
In terms of Clegg,the Tories need to win a number of seats from the lib dems to get a workable majority,Government voters tend to be very "sticky" apparently,(yes living with A government graduate and psephology nut at a time like this is fab).Clegg getting the chance to be known and listened too might really effect the result in some key in the majority of the country the seat will not change.
ok i've read that 3 times now n still have a puzzled look on my face any chance of having it in hairdressers terms (thats even simpler than laymans terms
) Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
In terms of Clegg,the Tories need to win a number of seats from the lib dems to get a workable majority,Government voters tend to be very "sticky" apparently,(yes living with A government graduate and psephology nut at a time like this is fab).Clegg getting the chance to be known and listened too might really effect the result in some key in the majority of the country the seat will not change.
ok i've read that 3 times now n still have a puzzled look on my face any chance of having it in hairdressers terms (thats even simpler than laymans terms
)
for the putdown!Well,if i understand correctly,most seat dont change,you know the sort vote red or blue no matter 1997 the result was so phenomenal because unexpected results came was not the normal way elections the parties are fighting over a few places,the tv refers to them as key marginals.
Now this is why you will see the leaders in the same few places again and again,as really its these 100 seats that matter.
At the moment the Tories are not looking like they are going to win the 20 lib dem seats that they need for a majority,Partly because Clegg is appealing to many who might vote tory as an anti government stickiness i mentioned is the fact that for many there is an attitude of better the devil you know when it comes to voting,so they wont vote against the government,becaue they are the government.
So whats the situation?
There are about 100 seats that matter,20 belong to the lib dems,the better Clegg does the less likely the few people who actually change their vote are to vote tory.
And so the whole thing comes down to a few thousand people!
And yes knowing this i still think its important to vote.
omg as if spanking me is a deterant mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
ty hun makes a bit more sense to me now
so help me out here again please treacle what will a hung parliment mean and how does that come about?
Right i have read what you guys have put, i have watched the live stage managed debate on tv and baring in mind the job i do and this is really the first time i have shown any real interest in politics this is my view on it all.
First of all David Cameron is a smug toff who will look after the rich and make them mega rich, whilst trying to pretend he has actually at anytime lived in the real world and will pick up all the toff votes of the sheltered folks south of Birmingham and beyond!
Secondly Gordon Brown maybe a buffoon but everything that happens is not all his fault but he gets the blame cos he is in charge...move on 3 years from now and IF we have a new leader the same people on here who slagged off Brown will be slagging off the new leader, as far as our forces go Brown does care and can only act on what our senior officers and Millitary advisors tell him!
Thirdly Nick Clegg seem a nice guy with loads of good ideas but i wish i had a tenner for everytime i hear " i would vote Lib Dem but they have no chance" of course they have a chance if all the bloody people saying "i would but" actually voted for them instead of only voting for the "big 2" cos thats what your all brainwashed to do.
As far as the increase in NI goes of course all the people with businesses are going to moan cos its going to cost them a small amount of profit and after all they are already multi millionaires so will be voting for the toff regardless, i myself do not mind paying an increase in my NI if it means we start to pay off the deficit and our health,education,police etc get to maintain the funding and much improved service they have given us since the Tories lost power.
However in a nutshell to me politics is all about divide and rule, why do the partys never agree on anything, easy really, if they had nothing to argue about and to disagree over we would not need as many of the overpaid thieves and fraudsters and things would run too smoothly, the press would have nothing to report and life would be boring, why oh why can they not all stand together for the good of the country they say they are here to serve agree on a mainline plan and get a solutuion that works for all, afterall they are all quick to tell us how good they are!
First of all David Cameron is a smug toff who will look after the rich and make them mega rich, whilst trying to pretend he has actually at anytime lived in the real world and will pick up all the toff votes of the sheltered folks south of Birmingham and beyond!
Secondly Gordon Brown maybe a buffoon but everything that happens is not all his fault but he gets the blame cos he is in charge...move on 3 years from now and IF we have a new leader the same people on here who slagged off Brown will be slagging off the new leader, as far as our forces go Brown does care and can only act on what our senior officers and Millitary advisors tell him!
Thirdly Nick Clegg seem a nice guy with loads of good ideas but i wish i had a tenner for everytime i hear " i would vote Lib Dem but they have no chance" of course they have a chance if all the bloody people saying "i would but" actually voted for them instead of only voting for the "big 2" cos thats what your all brainwashed to do.
As far as the increase in NI goes of course all the people with businesses are going to moan cos its going to cost them a small amount of profit and after all they are already multi millionaires so will be voting for the toff regardless, i myself do not mind paying an increase in my NI if it means we start to pay off the deficit and our health,education,police etc get to maintain the funding and much improved service they have given us since the Tories lost power.
However in a nutshell to me politics is all about divide and rule, why do the partys never agree on anything, easy really, if they had nothing to argue about and to disagree over we would not need as many of the overpaid thieves and fraudsters and things would run too smoothly, the press would have nothing to report and life would be boring, why oh why can they not all stand together for the good of the country they say they are here to serve agree on a mainline plan and get a solutuion that works for all, afterall they are all quick to tell us how good they are!
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
a hung parliament is when no one party has more mps than all the rest put togeather,so passing laws has to be done by getting the other parties to the tories have the most mps they will probably ask the northern irish unionists to support them,but the unionists will want something in that northern ireland is relativly stable now this will not be good for peace over there.
Labour would probably try to get the welsh/scottish nationalists,again they would want "bribes" for there support.
The party with the most mps would be the government,but not very powerful.
Not everyone thinks this would be such a bad thing!
ah ha ok i see
undecided as to wether that good or bad need to think on this one not liking the having to bribe others to get their vote could be open for abuse
cheers hunny
Quote by bouncy332
so this year having finally matured enough to realise just how important it is to make my vote count i have decided to put aside all pre concieved ideas about any of the parties and listen to everything they have to say at these debates and make my version of an informed decision and so far i am reluctant to admit maybe hubby was right and i really am naturally a liberal as apart from the trident thing nick clegg won the most points for me
Bouncy, I agree with that entirely and with Kaz's point about how that would make British politics vibrant!
Which leads me to another point. Voting or why vote? I hear so many people say they "can't be bothered" , "it doesn't make any difference", "Lib/Lab/Con they're all the same". Well no, things are never going to change if they can't be bothered to vote. Grrr I want to slap them!
Everyone cares passionately about... you know so many issues; others just whine non stop about the economy, corrupt MPs, asylum seekers, illegal aliens (terrestrial and extra-terrestrial), NHS, etc. but some of those complaining are not prepared to exert themselves a little and try to chose the least reprehensible of the lot.
Voter apathy can have serious consequences. Look what happened in France a few years ago - voter apathy contributed to Le Pen’s success. Then the French panicked!
As I keep telling people, it doesn't matter how terrible the choices are. It's no excuse not to vote.
Rant over
Sex God
For those of us old enough to remember, labour Governments leave a legacy of Quango's and civil service over employment. This government is no different as the government is managing almost every aspect of daily living from education to armed forces to health to the way we travel around.
A few things struck a chord with me yesterday in the debate:
1) The Police station in Hull about to buy a new £72,000 car (I often watch Police Interceptors on Sky and wonder at the need for such vehicles).
2) 400 Uniformed Police officers employed in HR duties.
3) Headmasters receiveing 4,000 pages of instructional emails every year (who writes them?)
4) 17 Army Brigadiers for every Brigade in the Army
5) Local maternity hospitals closing yet NHS managers get a 7% pay rise.
These things are happening NOW and it is too late for Gordon Brown to say that things will change, there has been 13 years of government and two and a half years of recession to make those savings. I believe that Cameron missed his opportunity to ram the potential for cost savings message down our throats because it was clear on almost every topic that there is wastage. Yes, he mentioned it frequently but there were no facts and figures to support what he was saying.
As for the Liberals, I can't take anyone seriously who would contemplate removing the UK's independant nuclear deterrant in these dangerous times.
A few things struck a chord with me yesterday in the debate:
1) The Police station in Hull about to buy a new £72,000 car (I often watch Police Interceptors on Sky and wonder at the need for such vehicles).
2) 400 Uniformed Police officers employed in HR duties.
3) Headmasters receiveing 4,000 pages of instructional emails every year (who writes them?)
4) 17 Army Brigadiers for every Brigade in the Army
5) Local maternity hospitals closing yet NHS managers get a 7% pay rise.
These things are happening NOW and it is too late for Gordon Brown to say that things will change, there has been 13 years of government and two and a half years of recession to make those savings. I believe that Cameron missed his opportunity to ram the potential for cost savings message down our throats because it was clear on almost every topic that there is wastage. Yes, he mentioned it frequently but there were no facts and figures to support what he was saying.
As for the Liberals, I can't take anyone seriously who would contemplate removing the UK's independant nuclear deterrant in these dangerous times.
Quote by Too Hot
For those of us old enough to remember, labour Governments leave a legacy of Quango's and civil service over employment. This government is no different as the government is managing almost every aspect of daily living from education to armed forces to health to the way we travel around.
A few things struck a chord with me yesterday in the debate:
1) The Police station in Hull about to buy a new £72,000 car (I often watch Police Interceptors on Sky and wonder at the need for such vehicles).
2) 400 Uniformed Police officers employed in HR duties.
3) Headmasters receiveing 4,000 pages of instructional emails every year (who writes them?)
4) 17 Army Brigadiers for every Brigade in the Army
5) Local maternity hospitals closing yet NHS managers get a 7% pay rise.
These things are happening NOW and it is too late for Gordon Brown to say that things will change, there has been 13 years of government and two and a half years of recession to make those savings. I believe that Cameron missed his opportunity to ram the potential for cost savings message down our throats because it was clear on almost every topic that there is wastage. Yes, he mentioned it frequently but there were no facts and figures to support what he was saying.
As for the Liberals, I can't take anyone seriously who would contemplate removing the UK's independant nuclear deterrant in these dangerous times:thumbup:.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
For those of us old enough to remember, labour Governments leave a legacy of Quango's and civil service over employment. This government is no different as the government is managing almost every aspect of daily living from education to armed forces to health to the way we travel around.
A few things struck a chord with me yesterday in the debate:
1) The Police station in Hull about to buy a new £72,000 car (I often watch Police Interceptors on Sky and wonder at the need for such vehicles).
2) 400 Uniformed Police officers employed in HR duties.
3) Headmasters receiveing 4,000 pages of instructional emails every year (who writes them?)
4) 17 Army Brigadiers for every Brigade in the Army
5) Local maternity hospitals closing yet NHS managers get a 7% pay rise.
These things are happening NOW and it is too late for Gordon Brown to say that things will change, there has been 13 years of government and two and a half years of recession to make those savings. I believe that Cameron missed his opportunity to ram the potential for cost savings message down our throats because it was clear on almost every topic that there is wastage. Yes, he mentioned it frequently but there were no facts and figures to support what he was saying.
As for the Liberals, I can't take anyone seriously who would contemplate removing the UK's independant nuclear deterrant in these dangerous times:thumbup:.
ok i will admit as he said it i thought oooo no no we can't get rid of that but as the day has gone on i'm thinking go on then why do we really need it
so go on then you wonderfully opinionated bunch educate me tell me why we REALLY need it
and that is genuine not patronising so i would appreciate not being patronised myself please
Sex God
I enjoyed watching, Gorden "I agree with Nick" Brown
Quote by awol
so this year having finally matured enough to realise just how important it is to make my vote count i have decided to put aside all pre concieved ideas about any of the parties and listen to everything they have to say at these debates and make my version of an informed decision and so far i am reluctant to admit maybe hubby was right and i really am naturally a liberal as apart from the trident thing nick clegg won the most points for me
Bouncy, I agree with that entirely and with Kaz's point about how that would make British politics vibrant!
Which leads me to another point. Voting or why vote? I hear so many people say they "can't be bothered" , "it doesn't make any difference", "Lib/Lab/Con they're all the same". Well no, things are never going to change if they can't be bothered to vote. Grrr I want to slap them!
Everyone cares passionately about... you know so many issues; others just whine non stop about the economy, corrupt MPs, asylum seekers, illegal aliens (terrestrial and extra-terrestrial), NHS, etc. but some of those complaining are not prepared to exert themselves a little and try to chose the least reprehensible of the lot.
Voter apathy can have serious consequences. Look what happened in France a few years ago - voter apathy contributed to Le Pen’s success. Then the French panicked!
As I keep telling people, it doesn't matter how terrible the choices are. It's no excuse not to vote.
Rant over
The French are renown for their "tactical" voting in their elections. Their system is geared to it in the first place and would never work for a First Past The Post system like the UK has.
In France, there are two stages to an election (unless at the fist stage, a candidate polls more than 50% of the vote). The election principle is that at the second stage, the only candidates going through are the top two in the first poll; that way, there can be a clear majority (unless of course both poll exactly the same number of votes!). This allows a good deal of behind the scenes alliances being formed to garner the unsuccessful candidates votes at the second stage of the election. There was never a cat in hell's chance of Le Pen becoming President; tactical voting ensured that the electorate made sure that the PS (Parti Socialiste) were put on notice that their policies were becoming unpopular giving Sarkozy's Centre Right UMP (Union pour un Mouvement Populaire) the chance to become the ruling party at the Élysée Palace.
Sarkozy's fortunes as President have not lasted though his term as President though; the recent Regional Elections have shown significant gains for PS causing him to reshuffle his cabinet to include some left wing influences to stave off mid-term problems.
French Politics is much more exciting!
As for the grand debate stage 1 last night, Clegg is hailed a hero on the basis of a poll of 1600 people against an audience of almost 10m people who I guess were shouting all sorts of abuse at him.
For me, Cameron was the beneficiary and Brown the weakest link which means "Elephant man" Cable had better be recharging the batteries in his calculator, because his claims are now going to have to match much closer scrutiny in the future if they want to play with the big boys.
Sex God
Quote by bouncy332
ok i will admit as he said it i thought oooo no no we can't get rid of that but as the day has gone on i'm thinking go on then why do we really need it so go on then you wonderfully opinionated bunch educate me tell me why we REALLY need it and that is genuine not patronising so i would appreciate not being patronised myself please
Iran and North Korea (for example) are on the brink of obrtaining a nuclear capacity sufficient to produce Nuclear bombs. Both countries already have Intercontinental missile technology.
There is a train of thought that the only thing that stopped a nuclear catastrophe in the 60's and 70's Cold War era was the absolute certainty that whoever fired first would equally be obliterated from the planet (about 100 X over actually). The UK Polaris and later Trident programme meant that if we lost our best friends (USA & France) we would still be able to respond to a nuclear attack in kind.
The theory of nuclear defence is that any aggressor is likely to think twice before attacking a country that can respond in kind. To say that North Korea and Iran are unstable is a bit of an understatement and if both or either of these countries had nuclear weapons then their "bullying factor" increases by many multiples.
For this reason the UK should in any reasonable persons opinion retain an ability to respond to a nuclear attack overwhelmingly sufficient to obliterate the aggressing country and make them think twice before committing to a course of action that would destroy them, their country and every living thing in it.
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot
ok i will admit as he said it i thought oooo no no we can't get rid of that but as the day has gone on i'm thinking go on then why do we really need it so go on then you wonderfully opinionated bunch educate me tell me why we REALLY need it and that is genuine not patronising so i would appreciate not being patronised myself please
Iran and North Korea (for example) are on the brink of obrtaining a nuclear capacity sufficient to produce Nuclear bombs. Both countries already have Intercontinental missile technology.
There is a train of thought that the only thing that stopped a nuclear catastrophe in the 60's and 70's Cold War era was the absolute certainty that whoever fired first would equally be obliterated from the planet (about 100 X over actually). The UK Polaris and later Trident programme meant that if we lost our best friends (USA & France) we would still be able to respond to a nuclear attack in kind.
The theory of nuclear defence is that any aggressor is likely to think twice before attacking a country that can respond in kind. To say that North Korea and Iran are unstable is a bit of an understatement and if both or either of these countries had nuclear weapons then their "bullying factor" increases by many multiples.
For this reason the UK should in any reasonable persons opinion retain an ability to respond to a nuclear attack overwhelmingly sufficient to obliterate the aggressing country and make them think twice before committing to a course of action that would destroy them, their country and every living thing in it.
ty for that i'm seeing wat u r saying but i was thinking that if the nuked us then france would feel the fallout surely so wouldn't they step in in our defence
also surely we got more than one i'm thinking maybe in the hundreds surely we could save a fair whack of money halving the amount is that viable?
and is trident just the launch pad thingy so we could keep misiles just lose a few launch pads???
the problem i have is it is the only thing that is, so far, stopping my cross going in the lib dem box as i agree with everything else they say so far so i need to explore the reasoning behind getting rid of trident from every angle so i do appreciate you taking the time to explain stuff to me
thanks
