New Law Preventing Discrimination Swinging Clubs

8 Oct 2010

I spotted this on another site so don't shoot the messenger wink

QUOTE;The Equality Act 2010 of which 90%, including this part, came into effect on 1st October 2010 'requires private members clubs to act in a non-discriminatory way. This means that clubs will no longer be able to restrict access to activities or benefits, or apply different conditions or fees' - based on sex (amongst other characteristics). This is very definition, for the purposes of the act, of a private members club is a club with over 24 members (that will be every swinging club then!).This has nothing to do with employers or employment law, which is already covered under current legislation - it covers ANY business that sells goods or last friday, there can no longer be a cap on the number of single guys in a club, they can't be charged a higher membership or admission fee than a single female.
This could change the business model of most swinging clubs, I would be amazed if club owners are fully aware yet!
END OF QUOTE
Good news about the membership rule for single men,not sure how this would work in practice ,clubs would just be full of bored single thoughts,and remember not my quote just passing it on for discussion.

8 Oct 2010

As much as I feel like we the enemy... yes too many single men are going to drown some decent swingers places and chase the couples or single woman off.
The ratio is also going to be higher than the norm so although nights that ban single men should be stopped and perhaps allow same amount of singles from both sides.
Any place that is over run by horny desperate men is not going to end well.

8 Oct 2010

Who is going to be brave enough to take their local swinging club to court?
That'll guarantee you get your five minutes of fame on the front page of the Bugle lol

8 Oct 2010

:laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove:

8 Oct 2010

Quote by Ian
Who is going to be brave enough to take their local swinging club to court?
That'll guarantee you get your five minutes of fame on the front page of the Bugle

Good point,not me that's for sure lol !

9 Oct 2010

this thread would be better in the cafe forum. i'm sure a mod will be along at some point to put it in the correct place wink

12 Oct 2010

The law might intend all to be treated equally, but in actual fact, if the "rules" of the establishment state, for instance, that new members need to be nominated and elected then that's the end of it. Existing rules might also over-ride such a law and assuming that such law changes everything might be a mistake. Clearly the first thing clubs should do is look closely at the wording of the law and at the wording of their own rules, then to consider if the law permits rewording of club rules.

12 Oct 2010

How many couple`s will be happy paying double the price of a single male or female.
Just have to wait and see if anyone try`s to enforce it I guess.

12 Oct 2010

this rule will just make swingers clubs into gay clubs as couples wont pay double and allready on the grapevine cpls are moving to prvt party venues

12 Oct 2010

Quote by Ian
Who is going to be brave enough to take their local swinging club to court?
That'll guarantee you get your five minutes of fame on the front page of the Bugle

:lol:
I just might! A certain club owner owes me, I have little chance of collecting, so may as well cost him money and cause him problems :lol:

12 Oct 2010

Quote by funlovin-cpl-nw
this rule will just make swingers clubs into gay clubs as couples wont pay double and allready on the grapevine cpls are moving to prvt party venues

Yeah!! I'd avoid a place if loads of gay guys were trying to get it on with me!!

13 Oct 2010

Im my opinion we should be grateful for any legislation that gives us more rights as individuals. Surely everyone would support this over their own preferences for ratios at clubs ?
And to address a couple of issues raised above; As I understand it a club would not have to charge double for a couple, they could have their own admission policy as long as it wasn't discriminatory against anyone falling under the protected characteristics. In the same way that you are able to buy discounted tickets for groups to other entertainments you could have a discounted couples rate as it would not be discriminating against singles because they do not fall under a protected characteristic.
Why would it follow that clubs would become gay clubs ? Surely in practice they would still be the same type of club but with maybe more single men present. And in reference to the post above about avoiding a place if loads of gay guys were trying to get it on with him I think you are probably quite safe on that score! And it appears you might be discriminating against two of the protected characteristics lol

13 Oct 2010

Quote by wideeyedand
Im my opinion we should be grateful for any legislation that gives us more rights as individuals. Surely everyone would support this over their own preferences for ratios at clubs ?
...
Why would it follow that clubs would become gay clubs ? Surely in practice they would still be the same type of club but with maybe more single men present.

Your increase in rights might not be what you actually want.
If clubs raise the prices for couples then many couples will move to the party circuit. This is already happening and all the clubs we go to are feeling the pinch already with decreasing numbers of couples. If single guys prices are reduced and clubs become 'overrun' with single guys then many of the couples that still go will stop going because of the imbalance of numbers. Either way the single guys are going to find that there are less women to play with and swingers clubs become just like gay clubs - all guys.
We play with single guys at clubs, but if there are few couples in a club we will find an alternative and leave the club scene to the new equal opportunity single male.

13 Oct 2010

I remember a thread like this a couple of years with single guys moaning about inequality. Well, careful what you wish for because Utopia might just have a sting in the tail. We like mixed nights in Clubs but will not pay double what we pay now to get in nor would we go if the place was over-run with single guys enjoying new found freedoms of a cheap and sexy night out
I think these Clubs will just become full of single guys wanking in the shadows if this plays out in the way anticipated in this thread.
Personally I think they will play with the rules of "membership" in order to maintain the quite acceptable status quo.

14 Oct 2010

Quote by northwest-cpl

Im my opinion we should be grateful for any legislation that gives us more rights as individuals. Surely everyone would support this over their own preferences for ratios at clubs ?
...
Why would it follow that clubs would become gay clubs ? Surely in practice they would still be the same type of club but with maybe more single men present.

Your increase in rights might not be what you actually want.
If clubs raise the prices for couples then many couples will move to the party circuit. This is already happening and all the clubs we go to are feeling the pinch already with decreasing numbers of couples. If single guys prices are reduced and clubs become 'overrun' with single guys then many of the couples that still go will stop going because of the imbalance of numbers. Either way the single guys are going to find that there are less women to play with and swingers clubs become just like gay clubs - all guys.
We play with single guys at clubs, but if there are few couples in a club we will find an alternative and leave the club scene to the new equal opportunity single male.
To clarify, when I said we should be grateful for any legislation that gives us more rights as individuals I meant all of us and not just males. We are all, in one way or another, in a protected characteristic. The new legislation will address potential inequalities in all of our lives.
If a couple choose not to visit a club because there are less couples or more single men present then that of course is their prerogative. That would be a price worth paying for the ending of a discrimination.

15 Oct 2010

I think I answered this on another site.... so I'll put down what I wrote there....
"I am reading thru the act as we speak now, am I think I have spotted something quite fundermental which is going to protect clubs......
the protected status's in the act are....
disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....
doesn't say anything about marital status though..... therefore if you go as a "couple" and consider yourself to be a "couple", then that isn't covered....
so they can charge couples differently then they can singles.......
so from what I read, Technically you can't differently charge single guys and single fems...... or between Couples (MM),Couples (MF) and Couples (FF)
However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)
and I think I have just found the "smoking gun" that they will use for Single ladies...... and make single men cry...
under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....
and we all know that people section under-represented at clubs are "single fems"....
I think I chose the wrong profession to go into....
okay.... if any clubs would like to give me free membership for the rest of me life now.... you know where to sent it..... "
hope that helps understand the situation a bit more clearly ......
sean xxxx

15 Oct 2010

''However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)''
A stay together play together clause ?? lol

15 Oct 2010

Quote by funlovin-cpl-nw
this rule will just make swingers clubs into gay clubs as couples wont pay double and allready on the grapevine cpls are moving to prvt party venues

:giggle: and there was me a few years ago mourning the loss of a Greater Manchester gay sauna because it turned into a straight swinging club!

15 Oct 2010

I haven't read the act and I am not a lawyer. But if I was a swingers club owner I wouldn't be stressing about it. In many clubs, single fems and couples are not members. They do not give their names, they fill in no forms. Only the single guys do that. All single guys pay the same membershp fee. Couples and single fems are not members. Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, the fact that some are more equal than others really doesn't matter in this case cos you're not comparing like with like. LOL. If anyone does take a club to court, I reckon that's the road they may go down.

16 Oct 2010

Quote by bluexxx
I haven't read the act and I am not a lawyer. But if I was a swingers club owner I wouldn't be stressing about it. In many clubs, single fems and couples are not members. They do not give their names, they fill in no forms. Only the single guys do that. All single guys pay the same membershp fee. Couples and single fems are not members. Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, the fact that some are more equal than others really doesn't matter in this case cos you're not comparing like with like. LOL. If anyone does take a club to court, I reckon that's the road they may go down.

That would still be unlawful discrimination blue as the key part of the legislation is equal access to services. Males and females would pay the same membership or entrance fee or the club would be breaking the law.

16 Oct 2010

Quote by wideeyedand
I haven't read the act and I am not a lawyer. But if I was a swingers club owner I wouldn't be stressing about it. In many clubs, single fems and couples are not members. They do not give their names, they fill in no forms. Only the single guys do that. All single guys pay the same membershp fee. Couples and single fems are not members. Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, the fact that some are more equal than others really doesn't matter in this case cos you're not comparing like with like. LOL. If anyone does take a club to court, I reckon that's the road they may go down.

That would still be unlawful discrimination blue as the key part of the legislation is equal access to services. Males and females would pay the same membership or entrance fee or the club would be breaking the law.
I would like to see what "service" a swingers club could claim to have. LOL.
Let's await the first brave person who tests this act in court lol

:lol: :lol:

16 Oct 2010

Quote by funlovin-cpl-nw
this rule will just make swingers clubs into gay clubs as couples wont pay double and allready on the grapevine cpls are moving to prvt party venues

Don't understand that logic - someone said the same thing on a fetish website - how are a couple paying double when a couple = 2 people??? They wouldn't be, they'll simply be paying the same as everyone else.
In terms of pricing, say a club currently charges £50 single guys, free for single girls and £20 for couples, I very much doubt the change will mean couples paying £100, what probably would happen is the previously single guy price will go down to something more realistic that everyone would pay, eg. £20 each individual or something along those lines.

16 Oct 2010

Quote by _Darth_
this rule will just make swingers clubs into gay clubs as couples wont pay double and allready on the grapevine cpls are moving to prvt party venues

Don't understand that logic - someone said the same thing on a fetish website - how are a couple paying double when a couple = 2 people??? They wouldn't be, they'll simply be paying the same as everyone else.
In terms of pricing, say a club currently charges £50 single guys, free for single girls and £20 for couples, I very much doubt the change will mean couples paying £100, what probably would happen is the previously single guy price will go down to something more realistic that everyone would pay, eg. £20 each individual or something along those lines.
You've just explained perfectly how couples will pay double. Couples that previously paid £20 would then pay £40 - ie. double, as funlovin said.
It will be a fairer pricing structure certainly, and will also mean far fewer couples in clubs - hence the comment about them becoming gay clubs because there will only be single guys there.

16 Oct 2010

how many single men would actually take any action on this as most are married and go to clubs on the quiet and wouldnt want the wife to find out?

16 Oct 2010

Quote by Si_19704
how many single men would actually take any action on this as most are married and go to clubs on the quiet and wouldnt want the wife to find out?

Exactly, can you imagine what the media would make of a court case bout equality in swingers clubs!!!!
And speaking of equality, I've alwayw wondered how clubs get away with really shite disabled access that many of them have. Guess that boils down to all the same reasons.

16 Oct 2010

Quote by northwest-cpl
this rule will just make swingers clubs into gay clubs as couples wont pay double and allready on the grapevine cpls are moving to prvt party venues

Don't understand that logic - someone said the same thing on a fetish website - how are a couple paying double when a couple = 2 people??? They wouldn't be, they'll simply be paying the same as everyone else.
In terms of pricing, say a club currently charges £50 single guys, free for single girls and £20 for couples, I very much doubt the change will mean couples paying £100, what probably would happen is the previously single guy price will go down to something more realistic that everyone would pay, eg. £20 each individual or something along those lines.
You've just explained perfectly how couples will pay double. Couples that previously paid £20 would then pay £40 - ie. double, as funlovin said.
It will be a fairer pricing structure certainly, and will also mean far fewer couples in clubs - hence the comment about them becoming gay clubs because there will only be single guys there.
That doesn't really follow, if they had been paying £20 before then they were lucky because they benefitted from the price imbalance when single guys were being charged £50 (in our example), more than double what couples paid. Now all it means is that they will be charged the same as everyone else, as individuals, a fairer pricing structure.
Now, I certainly can see why the old pricing structure sort of existed, but it WAS discriminatory and I think it's disingenuous to try and pretend it wasn't ... just for a moment pretend that single girls were being charged £50 and single guys got in for free ... and it has to be said that despite that bias, in some (many?) clubs, you'd still see big imbalances with a lot more single guys than you'd expect to see if the aim was purely about ratios.

17 Oct 2010

If I recall te originl post correctly it said 'private members clubs' it therefore presumably would not apply to somewhereike Rios which is not a private members club. Which reminds me to mmenton this to Colin next time Isee him

17 Oct 2010

Clubs can't win really, can they?
Charge less to single guys, equivalent of what a couple now pays, and get over-run. They either then have to turn people away based on gender (presumably discriminatory in itself) or let them all in. If they let them all in, risk driving the female club-goers away. Some clubs get full of guys already, imagine the state of these places if it became known to groups of stag parties and the like that these were cheap places to go and have a fumble? Ewww.
Charge more for couples and single fems and they will just vote with their feet and feck off elsewhere.
Nah, I reckon there will be a work round in the event of this becoming a real legal issue. I can't help thinking that it's a storm in a teacup due to the niche market status.
And I still want to know what service swingers clubs actually provide wink

17 Oct 2010

Quote by bluexxx
Clubs can't win really, can they?
Charge less to single guys, equivalent of what a couple now pays, and get over-run. They either then have to turn people away based on gender (presumably discriminatory in itself) or let them all in. If they let them all in, risk driving the female club-goers away. Some clubs get full of guys already, imagine the state of these places if it became known to groups of stag parties and the like that these were cheap places to go and have a fumble? Ewww.
Charge more for couples and single fems and they will just vote with their feet and feck off elsewhere.
Nah, I reckon there will be a work round in the event of this becoming a real legal issue. I can't help thinking that it's a storm in a teacup due to the niche market status.
And I still want to know what service swingers clubs actually provide

The Equality Act 2010 requires private members’ clubs to act in a non-discriminatory way. This means that clubs will no longer be able to restrict access to activities or benefits, or apply different conditions and fees for membership on the basis of any of the protected characteristics.
Open it up a bit more for you blue with activities and benefits lol

17 Oct 2010

Quote by Si_19704
how many single men would actually take any action on this as most are married and go to clubs on the quiet and wouldnt want the wife to find out?

Individuals have gone to court on much worse imao. If a club was breaking the law the relevant authorities would be taking them to court anyhow.