and whilst on subject, I thought the Police chief said they had no evidence to prove it but it was his belief that it was the IRA.
What does that say? Guilty until proved innocent?
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£22m bank robbery
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Orgasminator
Quote by steve-shireen
Thats what I heard which is why the bank has now withdrawn then from circulation rendering them as much use as a chocolate firegaurd.
you know what they look like then? I don't, which is why I said that people on tills in shops probably don't either, so whether withdrawn or not they could still be used, after all is's only £22M, so a £20 note in each of a million shops wouldn't be hard to pull off. then say half of those shops notice, you've still got the change from £10M, and assuming you only spent a fiver in each shop, that gives you of perfectly legal and untraceable cash to spend on guns.
Quote by
Thats what I heard which is why the bank has now withdrawn then from circulation rendering them as much use as a chocolate firegaurd.
you know what they look like then? I don't, which is why I said that people on tills in shops probably don't either, so whether withdrawn or not they could still be used, after all is's only £22M, so a £20 note in each of a million shops wouldn't be hard to pull off. then say half of those shops notice, you've still got the change from £10M, and assuming you only spent a fiver in each shop, that gives you of perfectly legal and untraceable cash to spend on guns.
Go to any Post Office or high street bank and they will give you info on how to spot these notes..
Not difficult really.
Sex God
Quote by
I dont think the problem is with the currency its to do with the fact its new notes and all the numbers are known..
new notes can look old quickly...and they aren't known by people on the till at all the little shops
I'm not a criminal, but I have had money laundering explained to me and it isn't as hard as the bank makes out!
Nope. Not hard at all, but if a member of banking staff suspects that someone is money laundering they HAVE to report their suspicions or they WILL be prosecuted. This does happen. I know of at least 2 ex banking staff that have been prosected and one served 24 months at one of her majesties "hotels". The theory isn't hard, it the the actual doing that's a problem.
For that ampount of money there was probably already a buyer or a network set up to dispose of it bloody quickly. It's probably been given to a couple of thousand runners or "dickers" and told to go out and buy stuff that's easy to sell. Electrical goods and designer clothes. High value and easy to sell on in a pub. They'll probably net about a third to 2 thirds of the actaul value of the money stolen, but that's still not bad for a couple of weeks/months work.
And as for making new notes look old, anyone ever washed a note in the washing machine?
I didn’t know you could spend Irish money in the UK. I have seen a few pound coins that look like they where Irish but never any paper money. If I was running a business I probably would not accept it anyway just to be sure. If they do manage to pass it off to business like small corner shops will the shops be able to bank that money still or find themselves ripped off of £20 ?
Casanova
I'm just waiting for the smartass to point out that had the bank have been packed full of Euros, they could have been laundered anywhere in Europe, and that this is another reason for sticking to our own currency! 
:shock:
:shock: Casanova
oops 
Looks like I've just qualified for the "smartass" of the thread award.
ops: 
:oops:
Looks like I've just qualified for the "smartass" of the thread award.ops: :oops: Quote by Noel1977
I didn’t know you could spend Irish money in the UK. I have seen a few pound coins that look like they where Irish but never any paper money. If I was running a business I probably would not accept it anyway just to be sure. If they do manage to pass it off to business like small corner shops will the shops be able to bank that money still or find themselves ripped off of £20 ?
Just to point out that notes from the Northern bank are not Irish. And to my knowledge non of the british banks produce coins only notes.
No small business would infact be ripped off by accepting a stolen note - as the bank will simply retain the notes when they are returned to them - stoppping them going back into circulation. So if I bank a stolen £20 note it will still credit my accountt with £20.
Warming the Bed
I've not got it in my pocket!..........In fact......guess what I've got in my hand in my pocket??? teehee 
Quote by Happy Cats
Paisley might know who they are in the UVF/UDA etc but that doesnt make him a terrorist.
Paisley ALWAYS condemned IRA actions but NOT Loyalist actions. Therefore Paisley effectively supported Loyalist terrorism. (he was certainly a figurehead for most loyalist paramilitaries!) There is also strong evidence that he was actually engaged in acts of terrorism in the mid to late 1960s.
Either condemn terrorism on both sides or at least have the guts to stand up and say which side you support.
Lonni
Sex God
Quote by Lonni
Paisley might know who they are in the UVF/UDA etc but that doesnt make him a terrorist.
Paisley ALWAYS condemned IRA actions but NOT Loyalist actions. Therefore Paisley effectively supported Loyalist terrorism. (he was certainly a figurehead for most loyalist paramilitaries!) There is also strong evidence that he was actually engaged in acts of terrorism in the mid to late 1960s.
Either condemn terrorism on both sides or at least have the guts to stand up and say which side you support.
Lonni
quite!
it's quite clear that the loyalist paramilitaries have strong links with loyalist politics. there hasn't been the need to be quite so directly linked as Sinn Fein / IRA, because they're all fighting for the same agenda and looking after eachothers interests anyway. that's a slightly different set of circumstances to those that saw PIRA reform in the 60's. the loyalist side has always had armed representation, and used it, even if only in the UDR! but the fact is at least a couple of loyalist political parties are directly linked to and representing loyalist paramilitaries, and there's little doubt there criminal funding is still intact, but there's no pressure on them to disarm. it's a bit glib to say republicans are active terrorists and the loyalist side aren't, cos clearly all sides are.
neil x x x ;)
My origonal question had nothing to do with whether loyalist terrorists were any better than republican ones. It was whether anyone was surprised that the police suspect the IRA.
Where did I say that one lot were better than another? Where did I say that loyalist paramilitary groups were not linked to political parties?
The IRA are the only group capable of such a robbery – the rest tend to stick to drugs, protection rackets and holding up newsagents. The IRA also does this but are the only ones with the manpower and sophistication to do something on such a scale.
Paisley is a blusterer, he has condemned violence from both sides, but has also been on the same platform as terrorists calling to arms to protect Ulster. The IRA decided in the 70’s that he was worth more to them alive than dead.
But a member of a terrorist group? Who, when? Give a reference point!
Mcguinness/Adams - see “Fifty dead men walking†Martin McGartland for starters.
Where did I say that one lot were better than another? Where did I say that loyalist paramilitary groups were not linked to political parties?
The IRA are the only group capable of such a robbery – the rest tend to stick to drugs, protection rackets and holding up newsagents. The IRA also does this but are the only ones with the manpower and sophistication to do something on such a scale.
Paisley is a blusterer, he has condemned violence from both sides, but has also been on the same platform as terrorists calling to arms to protect Ulster. The IRA decided in the 70’s that he was worth more to them alive than dead.
But a member of a terrorist group? Who, when? Give a reference point!
Mcguinness/Adams - see “Fifty dead men walking†Martin McGartland for starters.
Sex God
noooooooooo, i wasn't pulling you up or putting words in your mouth. was just a quote on a quote where you said paisley <> terrorist, not the original question. sure it was the IRA, tho as for only the IRA being capable? it would have been just as easy for loyalists to pull the same job? if not more so? all it takes is insider info and enough guns? 
but . . .
what does that say, other than terrorist links? whether linked sitting on the IRA Army Council, or linked in the loyalist / paramilitary imagination, even indirectly, the effect is the same? Paisley is the voice of loyalist paramilitaries, but has the luxury of less direct links, and doesn't need to actually be a member to speak for them and encourage them to violence. i don't think you can divorce the political from the paramilitary, and say these people speak for and work with terrorists, and those people don't, even tho they do?.
you also have to be a bit careful about which IRA you mean? is it Adams and McGuinness, and the Provisionals, or is it Original / Real / Continuity? could equally well be one of the last 2, as they've been pretty active too? Omagh bombing? Republicans still up for armed conflict rather than politics? given that Sinn Fein are desperately trying to get Stormont up and running again properly, how dumb would it be to pull this little stunt? i personally reckon they're quite astute, and have quite enough guns given the decommissioning furore not to need to jeopardise that?
and i have read Martin McGartland, and wouldn't argue that Adams and Mcguinness were top IRA commanders in Derry and Belfast, and probably have a damn good idea who pulled it off, whether PIRA, RIRA, CIRA, or Loyalists?
n x x x ;)
but . . .
Paisley is a blusterer, he has condemned violence from both sides, but has also been on the same platform as terrorists calling to arms to protect Ulster. The IRA decided in the 70’s that he was worth more to them alive than dead.
But a member of a terrorist group? Who, when? Give a reference point!
what does that say, other than terrorist links? whether linked sitting on the IRA Army Council, or linked in the loyalist / paramilitary imagination, even indirectly, the effect is the same? Paisley is the voice of loyalist paramilitaries, but has the luxury of less direct links, and doesn't need to actually be a member to speak for them and encourage them to violence. i don't think you can divorce the political from the paramilitary, and say these people speak for and work with terrorists, and those people don't, even tho they do?.
you also have to be a bit careful about which IRA you mean? is it Adams and McGuinness, and the Provisionals, or is it Original / Real / Continuity? could equally well be one of the last 2, as they've been pretty active too? Omagh bombing? Republicans still up for armed conflict rather than politics? given that Sinn Fein are desperately trying to get Stormont up and running again properly, how dumb would it be to pull this little stunt? i personally reckon they're quite astute, and have quite enough guns given the decommissioning furore not to need to jeopardise that?
and i have read Martin McGartland, and wouldn't argue that Adams and Mcguinness were top IRA commanders in Derry and Belfast, and probably have a damn good idea who pulled it off, whether PIRA, RIRA, CIRA, or Loyalists?
n x x x ;)
To be fair to you Neil I was also referring to previous posters, particularly Lonnie who was demanding I “condemn terrorism on both sides or to have the guts to stand up to say which side you supportâ€
With regard to Paisley – he is a mouth piece for Unionism but cetainly not for loyalist paramilitaries. The loyalist paramilitaries are renowned for their infighting and squabbling and certainly do not offer a united front. Most violence over the last few years has been between the loyalists groups. Paisleys cause may be the same, he may have spoken with/to them but he doesnt speak for them nor is he a member of them. I await enlightenment on that one!
The 2 largest parties – the DUP and UUP have no terrorist links – neither did the SDLP when they were the foremost republican party. The progressive Unoinist Party is the mouthpiece of the UVF but they are a minor party. Sinn Fein IS the IRA.
With regard to who carried out the robbery I don’t believe the loyalist paramilitaries are well enough organised or sophisticated enough. The other Republican groups are too small (remember this took 20 people as well as a lot of logistical organisation). So it just leaves Adams crew.
Motive? Don’t know – greed/ weapns/ create instability? Could be anything.
Republicans such as IRA have always been more astute and organised than their loyalist counterparts – just look at the IRA members that were released from prison with degrees as opposed to the UVF etc coming out with bulging muscles!
With regard to Paisley – he is a mouth piece for Unionism but cetainly not for loyalist paramilitaries. The loyalist paramilitaries are renowned for their infighting and squabbling and certainly do not offer a united front. Most violence over the last few years has been between the loyalists groups. Paisleys cause may be the same, he may have spoken with/to them but he doesnt speak for them nor is he a member of them. I await enlightenment on that one!
The 2 largest parties – the DUP and UUP have no terrorist links – neither did the SDLP when they were the foremost republican party. The progressive Unoinist Party is the mouthpiece of the UVF but they are a minor party. Sinn Fein IS the IRA.
With regard to who carried out the robbery I don’t believe the loyalist paramilitaries are well enough organised or sophisticated enough. The other Republican groups are too small (remember this took 20 people as well as a lot of logistical organisation). So it just leaves Adams crew.
Motive? Don’t know – greed/ weapns/ create instability? Could be anything.
Republicans such as IRA have always been more astute and organised than their loyalist counterparts – just look at the IRA members that were released from prison with degrees as opposed to the UVF etc coming out with bulging muscles!
Happy Cats - you're right. Paisley is the leader of the DUP, and hence is a Unionist. He's not a supporter of or a spokesperson of any of the Loyalist organisations. The PUP is. And again you're right - the IRA are the only terrorist organisation with the capability to pull off such a robbery. Apparently they did have a mole in the bank - think it could be the guy from Polglass. But by all accounts the security in the Northern Bank wasn't great. I have a mate who's been working at the Ulster Bank for years and is quite high up, but still wouldn't have a clue how to go about getting that sort of money.
Also, I heard from a mate at work that the amount of Northern Bank notes being lodged in Scottish banks has gone up by about 40 times, which suggests it is already being laundered. And it'll take a few months for the Northern Bank to fully get the stolen notes out of circulation.
Also, I heard from a mate at work that the amount of Northern Bank notes being lodged in Scottish banks has gone up by about 40 times, which suggests it is already being laundered. And it'll take a few months for the Northern Bank to fully get the stolen notes out of circulation.
Quote by frozentreeinafield
Happy Cats - you're right. Paisley is the leader of the DUP, and hence is a Unionist. He's not a supporter of or a spokesperson of any of the Loyalist organisations. The PUP is. And again you're right - the IRA are the only terrorist organisation with the capability to pull off such a robbery. Apparently they did have a mole in the bank - think it could be the guy from Polglass. But by all accounts the security in the Northern Bank wasn't great. I have a mate who's been working at the Ulster Bank for years and is quite high up, but still wouldn't have a clue how to go about getting that sort of money.
Also, I heard from a mate at work that the amount of Northern Bank notes being lodged in Scottish banks has gone up by about 40 times, which suggests it is already being laundered. And it'll take a few months for the Northern Bank to fully get the stolen notes out of circulation.
Nobody would do a job that big without working out how to wash the money first...
Sex God
Quote by frozentreeinafield
Paisley is the leader of the DUP, and hence is a Unionist. He's not a supporter of or a spokesperson of any of the Loyalist organisations.
uuummmm . . . so sharing a platform with johnny adair is what exactly? has ole mad dog gone all democratic now, or has his little army been chucking pipe bombs at kids walking to school recently?
wonder who all the guys in orange sashes inciting petrol bombing and shooting at RUC officers at Drumcree were too? :dunno: oh hell i've done it again eh?
*note to self : DO NOT DO contentious threads! *
all i'm arguing is the idea that Paisley doesn't support, speak for, and command terrorist actions just as much as McGuinness, even indirectly, is a little convenient, if not positively naive? maybe in a slightly different way, but not too different. maybe our terms of reference aren't the same, in which case, arguing the toss is pointless?
you say only the IRA could pull this off? well all it takes is a dozen men outside with Armalites, and one man on the inside to deal with keys and alarms and codes? even the Real IRA or INLA could pull that off. it may well be republicans. that doesn't make it PIRA, which is who we mean by Sinn Fein.
i just think that for those on the republican paramilitary fringes, to embarass PIRA / Sinn Fein, fund their own campaign, and thereby prevent any sit down at Stormont, which they're actively opposed to, makes more sense than imagining that Adams and McGuinness sanctioned this as IRA commanders looking to rearm and begin an armed campaign?
of course if the police chiefs saying it's PIRA present any evidence to support the claim, i'll eat my words. not seen too much tho as yet?
i don't support violence on either side, but it's always been a very simplistic analysis to lay it all at the IRA's door, and pretend that Paisley is an upstanding democrat with nowt to do with directing loyalist violence.
neil x x x ;)
I havent been able to respond to this until now – p/c problems and a trip to N.I
I have essentially made 3 points –
lack of surprise at the IRA envolvement – Backed up by the police statement.
& Adams were terrorists – backed up by book reference
is not a terrorist nor a member of a terrorist organisation.
Point 1 may well be argued it is still conjecture.
Point 2 is common knowledge.
Point 3 – I still await proof – a book, news statement etc. What has been said is opinion only.
The statement about petrol bombing and Drumcree is irrelavent to this debate. All terrorist actions in whatever name are wrong.
There is an implied ignorance of Orangeism. Try reading “The Faithful Tribe†by Ruth Dudley Edwards.
So, other than personal opinion where is the proof that Paisley directs terrorist activities?
I have essentially made 3 points –
lack of surprise at the IRA envolvement – Backed up by the police statement.
& Adams were terrorists – backed up by book reference
is not a terrorist nor a member of a terrorist organisation.
Point 1 may well be argued it is still conjecture.
Point 2 is common knowledge.
Point 3 – I still await proof – a book, news statement etc. What has been said is opinion only.
The statement about petrol bombing and Drumcree is irrelavent to this debate. All terrorist actions in whatever name are wrong.
There is an implied ignorance of Orangeism. Try reading “The Faithful Tribe†by Ruth Dudley Edwards.
So, other than personal opinion where is the proof that Paisley directs terrorist activities?
Quote by Happy Cats
So, other than personal opinion where is the proof that Paisley directs terrorist activities?
I don't think anyone on here has claimed that Paisley directs terrorist activities. What people are trying to say, I think, is that to paint Paisley as a democratic politician who stands above the violence on either side is extremely disingenuous as he has stood as a figurehead for Loyalist paramilitaries for decades and has done little, if anything to use his influence to stop them. There is widely-held opinion in the north, that Paisley was very much involved in the economic bombings in the late sixties (particularly of the Silent Valley Reservoir in Co. Down) but no real evidence. Looking at the politics and history of the time it would surprise me if Paisley wasn't involved.
Lonni x
Sex God
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: bugger me, i thought i had deja vu then. all my old piss poor arguments coming back to haunt me or what?
i've had a year to think about this, and i now accept that it was the IRA!
but Happy Cats is still a twat! :P
neil x x x ;)
