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Able bodied folk parking in handicapped spaces
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Sex God
Quote by Missy
missy i see this as a quite simple problem and solution to your battling... first off it drives me nuts just like you when i go to asda or tescos late at night,, fifty cars on a car park big enough to fit a couple of thousand and all of them taking up the nearer to the doors spaces leaving those very attractive and empty disabled spaces. not one of the ten occupied...i could take one of those...but then so could all the rest of the fifty drivers on the car park, the fact that i will make little difference is irrelevent . i would make one hell of a difference if i set an example to all the other driver that night.. basicly if everyone had YOUR attitude it would be so shit for the disabled guy that turns up to get a last minute item in the rain with a bad heart and now fifty yards to walk to the door...
you make little difference on your own, but you set a standard , its the what if everyone else took advantage like you are doing, what makes you special and all that jazz that goes along with your actions..truth is nothing makes you special so do as the rest of us do and leave the spaces well alone for those that need them.
staggy
As I said before, I've never taken up a space that even might've been used by a disabled person at the time. I don't consider myself special, if someone else had said spot, then I would probably be in the space they would otherwise of used. I wouldn't contemplate using one of the disabled spaces during peek time, or even slightly off peek time, no matter how many spaces are there or how little time I'm shopping, because there is still that just in case factor, which is a line I wouldn't step over.
It's also not something I actively seek out every time I have to go to the shop at night, but it is something I've done, knowing I wasn't putting out any disabled drivers, and not beaten myself up about it.
.
the whole point of my argument against doing this is, why are you the one that does this and what if we all had that attitude, i see tunes argument about making a reasonable decision and ask what right do we have to make such a decision and where does it end, when there are two spaces left , five,ten or when...i just cant see any reason in the world when i would find the need to take one of those spots , without my dad being a passenger and even then only if he needed to get out and come with me into the shop..
'and not beaten myself up about it.' no one needs to beat themselves or anyone up about it, maybe if you have such great issues with getting rained on you should carry a brolly, if you have trouble walking a little further then apply for a blue badge your self, its not as if there is free space there isnt, those spaces just like my drive way is not yours to use, its for other people..that have the right to use it..
they are the special people, the ones with the need, what exactly is your need, you say you are not special...have you noticed how at night you are the only person without a badge using the disabled spaces?? ever wondered why? and you think you arent special??
oh by the way i admire your honesty but i think my admiration ends there..as far as this topic goes..
Quote by wild rose and the stag
missy i see this as a quite simple problem and solution to your battling... first off it drives me nuts just like you when i go to asda or tescos late at night,, fifty cars on a car park big enough to fit a couple of thousand and all of them taking up the nearer to the doors spaces leaving those very attractive and empty disabled spaces. not one of the ten occupied...i could take one of those...but then so could all the rest of the fifty drivers on the car park, the fact that i will make little difference is irrelevent . i would make one hell of a difference if i set an example to all the other driver that night.. basicly if everyone had YOUR attitude it would be so shit for the disabled guy that turns up to get a last minute item in the rain with a bad heart and now fifty yards to walk to the door...
you make little difference on your own, but you set a standard , its the what if everyone else took advantage like you are doing, what makes you special and all that jazz that goes along with your actions..truth is nothing makes you special so do as the rest of us do and leave the spaces well alone for those that need them.
staggy
As I said before, I've never taken up a space that even might've been used by a disabled person at the time. I don't consider myself special, if someone else had said spot, then I would probably be in the space they would otherwise of used. I wouldn't contemplate using one of the disabled spaces during peek time, or even slightly off peek time, no matter how many spaces are there or how little time I'm shopping, because there is still that just in case factor, which is a line I wouldn't step over.
It's also not something I actively seek out every time I have to go to the shop at night, but it is something I've done, knowing I wasn't putting out any disabled drivers, and not beaten myself up about it.
.
the whole point of my argument against doing this is, why are you the one that does this and what if we all had that attitude, i see tunes argument about making a reasonable decision and ask what right do we have to make such a decision and where does it end, when there are two spaces left , five,ten or when...i just cant see any reason in the world when i would find the need to take one of those spots , without my dad being a passenger and even then only if he needed to get out and come with me into the shop..
'and not beaten myself up about it.' no one needs to beat themselves or anyone up about it, maybe if you have such great issues with getting rained on you should carry a brolly, if you have trouble walking a little further then apply for a blue badge your self, its not as if there is free space there isnt, those spaces just like my drive way is not yours to use, its for other people..that have the right to use it..
they are the special people, the ones with the need, what exactly is your need, you say you are not special...have you noticed how at night you are the only person without a badge using the disabled spaces?? ever wondered why? and you think you arent special??
oh by the way i admire your honesty but i think my admiration ends there..as far as this topic goes..
I def have to agree on this with stag.
Sorry to me it is all about being downright lazy that people cannot seem to walk a few extra yards! There is NO excuse for it no matter what colour you want to paint it. I hope on this thread that the next time somebody goes to park in a disabled space, no matter what time or what the weather is like, that they stop and think and use them very nice things we all have...legs. But my Father has not got that luxury of using his legs hence why he HAS a blue badge, so he can more easily get to wherever he may be going. Sorry but this is just all about not being bothered to walk an extra few yards..how bad does that sound.
Quote by Shambolic
Ah, so it's not about a persons actual capabilities on a given day, it's about their abilities to obtain a certificate of general inability?
Congratulations! You have finally grasped the concept of the disabled parking scheme.
Quote by Shambolic
I'm so glad arbitrary methods are used rather than some silly notion of assessing a situation on its own merit.
Exactly the opposite. As arbitrary means something done without reference to an underlying principle it is you who is being arbitrary. The established and legal principle is that disabled parking spaces are there for those who have been assessed as disabled, not for those selfish enough to use them because they feel rules should not apply to them.
Quote by Shambolic
So you've never driven when stressed about something then? Be it making a deadline, rushing to a hospital, having personal issues that are resting on your mind. No, I'm sure you, and every other good decent honest road user take a personal assessment of serenity before getting behind the wheel, no matter the need for the journey. And having reached this motoring nirvana your tranquility would not be in the least bit altered by some stranger making a judgment and enforcing it upon you.
Apparently this state is much more usual for you as you feel the need to use facilities you are not entitled to because of it. There is a huge difference between an occasional stressful episode and regular and recurring episodes of unreasonable behaviour.
Quote by Shambolic
The bottom line to me is not whether disabled spaces exist or not, or whether they are a crass commercial ploy, but that it is not the right of the bystander to make medical assessments on the fly and go on to enforce them.
More hyperbole. No one is making a medical assessment, they are noting that the required permit is not being shown. It is you that is making a medical assessment; that you are disabled enough to require the use of disabled parking. If you are, get a permit. If you can't get a permit don't use a resource you have no right to use.
Quote by Shambolic
I would never advocate the persuading of these people to change their behaviour through use of a ton of metal, nor would I do so myself (though I would advocate a level of both imagination and comprehension in the writing of a persuasive piece, from both the writer and the reader...), but I most certainly would and it appears am currently suggest that those who do wish to stick to preconceived notions of abilities and rights leave those thoughts in their heads instead of being yet another do gooding moral guardian.
It seems to me common sense is being ever more eradicated in favour of merely having to recant a mantra handed out on a platter.
Common sense suggests that if you need a disabled parking permit then you will be able to get one. It also suggests that those who use resources knowing they have no entitlement to do so are thoughtless, selfish and ignorant.
Quote by Unc
Ah, so it's not about a persons actual capabilities on a given day, it's about their abilities to obtain a certificate of general inability?
Congratulations! You have finally grasped the concept of the disabled parking scheme.
Quote by Shambolic
I'm so glad arbitrary methods are used rather than some silly notion of assessing a situation on its own merit.
Exactly the opposite. As arbitrary means something done without reference to an underlying principle it is you who is being arbitrary. The established and legal principle is that disabled parking spaces are there for those who have been assessed as disabled, not for those selfish enough to use them because they feel rules should not apply to them.
Quote by Shambolic
So you've never driven when stressed about something then? Be it making a deadline, rushing to a hospital, having personal issues that are resting on your mind. No, I'm sure you, and every other good decent honest road user take a personal assessment of serenity before getting behind the wheel, no matter the need for the journey. And having reached this motoring nirvana your tranquility would not be in the least bit altered by some stranger making a judgment and enforcing it upon you.
Apparently this state is much more usual for you as you feel the need to use facilities you are not entitled to because of it. There is a huge difference between an occasional stressful episode and regular and recurring episodes of unreasonable behaviour.
Quote by Shambolic
The bottom line to me is not whether disabled spaces exist or not, or whether they are a crass commercial ploy, but that it is not the right of the bystander to make medical assessments on the fly and go on to enforce them.
More hyperbole. No one is making a medical assessment, they are noting that the required permit is not being shown. It is you that is making a medical assessment; that you are disabled enough to require the use of disabled parking. If you are, get a permit. If you can't get a permit don't use a resource you have no right to use.
Quote by Shambolic
I would never advocate the persuading of these people to change their behaviour through use of a ton of metal, nor would I do so myself (though I would advocate a level of both imagination and comprehension in the writing of a persuasive piece, from both the writer and the reader...), but I most certainly would and it appears am currently suggest that those who do wish to stick to preconceived notions of abilities and rights leave those thoughts in their heads instead of being yet another do gooding moral guardian.
It seems to me common sense is being ever more eradicated in favour of merely having to recant a mantra handed out on a platter.
Common sense suggests that if you need a disabled parking permit then you will be able to get one. It also suggests that those who use resources knowing they have no entitlement to do so are thoughtless, selfish and ignorant.
Funnily enough most disabled people would think exactly that,and you know what?.....they would be right.
Quote by kentswingers777
Funnily enough most disabled people would think exactly that,and you know what?.....they would be right.
Can you clarify your meaning there please Kentswingers777?
With the "they would be right" statement, are you, with the use of other peoples quotes, announcing that I am a thoughless selfish and ignorant person?
Hi Missy,
I would just like to say I admire you honesty!
I don't drive, but if I did I would never park in one of these spaces.
I don't agree with any arguement for doing so, but as I said admire you for being honest, as I bet there are not many that would admit to doing so, and that there are quite a few reading this thread not making comment and letting you take all the flack.
I would just like to say I admire you honesty!
I don't drive, but if I did I would never park in one of these spaces.
I don't agree with any arguement for doing so, but as I said admire you for being honest, as I bet there are not many that would admit to doing so, and that there are quite a few reading this thread not making comment and letting you take all the flack.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Devils advocate, disabled people are always going on about being treated like normal people, so maybe they should'nt have disabled spaces?.
If you did get a fine for parking in a disabled space in a supermarket, you don't have to pay it, it's leagally un enforceable.
By giving disabled people parking bays is treating them as normal people. These people may have had a carer do their shopping before, when they had to walk a mile from the only available space left in a car park.
I have a friend who is paralysed from the neck down. Time he parks, passes his wheelchair across his body and assembles it, (a fete to be watched and admired I must say) he gets pretty tired, then to hand wheel his wheelchair a mile to a shop, he would be tired before he even started.
He is independent and likes to do things for himself.
Give this people a thought when you next want to park in a disabled space. He could be the car behind you. :thumbup:
All this wouldn’t be possible without the great work form stoke mandeville hospital.
:worship:Maybe some of you will give my last post a thought before parking in one again. :thumbup:
Sex God
Quote by Missy
Funnily enough most disabled people would think exactly that,and you know what?.....they would be right.
Can you clarify your meaning there please Kentswingers777?
With the "they would be right" statement, are you, with the use of other peoples quotes, announcing that I am a thoughless selfish and ignorant person?
missy as you are the only person standing up for the other side of the argument its difficult for an adverse opinion not to be or at least sound like a personal attack.. to be fair to kent they have avoided doing just that, is it wise on the forum to make the debate personal , ...if the answer is no then i suggest you refrain from asking a direct question like that, but then what would i know about forum etiquette,
Quote by wild rose and the stag
missy as you are the only person standing up for the other side of the argument
:banghead: :banghead:Quote by Missy initial post
Do I think its ok - actually no I don't nowTheres no real need to do it.
Quote by Missy
I know it's wrong .......
Quote by Missy
..... I haven't said it's the right thing to do
Sex God
quotes are great arent they
quoting other things you said
''I admit I'm one of the baddies ''
''I know it's wrong ....... but unfortunately at 11 o'clock at night peeing with rain, I can't say I'm gonna drive past''
''
It's night, it's peeing with rain, there are loads of disabled parking spaces - and they certainly are not even gonna get quarter used up during the couple of mins in there. I don't go in the nearest few, just in case someone does come along, I opt for one further away....''
irrespective of your views you have posted up there about how wrong it is etc etc and your honesty etc etc which has received praise it does not detract from the other quotes which to me are more relevant than anything else...so bang your head away at my posts as much as you like , i can see how you KNOW that parking in disabled places is wrong for all manner of reasons and as you say 'there is no real reason to do it' the point im making is ...
....So why do it!
quoting other things you said
''I admit I'm one of the baddies ''
''I know it's wrong ....... but unfortunately at 11 o'clock at night peeing with rain, I can't say I'm gonna drive past''
''
It's night, it's peeing with rain, there are loads of disabled parking spaces - and they certainly are not even gonna get quarter used up during the couple of mins in there. I don't go in the nearest few, just in case someone does come along, I opt for one further away....''
irrespective of your views you have posted up there about how wrong it is etc etc and your honesty etc etc which has received praise it does not detract from the other quotes which to me are more relevant than anything else...so bang your head away at my posts as much as you like , i can see how you KNOW that parking in disabled places is wrong for all manner of reasons and as you say 'there is no real reason to do it' the point im making is ...
....So why do it!
Sex God
at this point im off this thread, ive made my point to everyone that uses disabled parking places without the right to do so, my mind will not change on the issue..
you set an example by leaving them solely to those that need them, even if it means you get wet and have to walk an extra 50 yards as frustrating as it can be, just like when following a funeral prossesion you dont speed up behind papping your horn do you, you put up with it and set an example.
you set an example by leaving them solely to those that need them, even if it means you get wet and have to walk an extra 50 yards as frustrating as it can be, just like when following a funeral prossesion you dont speed up behind papping your horn do you, you put up with it and set an example.
Quote by Missy
Funnily enough most disabled people would think exactly that,and you know what?.....they would be right.
Can you clarify your meaning there please Kentswingers777?
With the "they would be right" statement, are you, with the use of other peoples quotes, announcing that I am a thoughless selfish and ignorant person?
I am not into personnel attacks missy, it was a statement aimed at anybody that parks in disabled spaces. In keeping with the Forum spirit I do not think attacks on individuals are fair and proper.
I am in reality sticking up for people like my Father, is that such a bad thing? I am also leaving this thread now as there is nothing more to say on this subject for me.
Quote by kentswingers777
Funnily enough most disabled people would think exactly that,and you know what?.....they would be right.
Can you clarify your meaning there please Kentswingers777?
With the "they would be right" statement, are you, with the use of other peoples quotes, announcing that I am a thoughless selfish and ignorant person?
I am not into personnel attacks missy, it was a statement aimed at anybody that parks in disabled spaces. In keeping with the Forum spirit I do not think attacks on individuals are fair and proper.
I am in reality sticking up for people like my Father, is that such a bad thing? I am also leaving this thread now as there is nothing more to say on this subject for me.
Thank you for that, I didn't understand what you meant :D
ops: :oops:Quote by Cherrytree
As the OP of this thread, I would like to thank Missy for being brave and honest, and putting a different point of view forward.
I personally feel that there are things that most of us do that we know to be not 100% the "correct" thing - but that per se doesn't make us bad people.
Missy
Thank you Cherry, I was just thinking this and pondering about saying the same.... Missy has admitted to doing something in the past, she's also said she'd probably not be doing it again.
Accept her admittance and move the f@ck on for god's sake
I'm not going to keep being drawn back to this thread because it amply displays exactly the kinds of attitudes that keep me away from this forum in general.
But...
I gather lack of legs, or use of ones still fitted is the only disability worthy of a badge, or marked out space on private land. This is precisely the narrow minded thinking that makes me so angry in the first place. I know and have known many people with two working legs, in fact I'd say I've known very few people without two working legs. Yet I've still known a hell of a lot of people who are disabled. I know of people who do have mobility problems that aren't related to numbers or efficiencies of limbs, and not all of them are eligible for a blue badge. Not all would want one either, as they're not asking for mobility scheme car tax or the right to announce to the world they're unwell, but they are mighty grateful for a slot nearer the supermarket door.
It's been assumed I'm not disabled. I'm not about to reel out my medical notes to satisfy someones prejudice or score points on a forum, but if by disabled you mean my leg count then no, I'm not. But even my pair of generally adequate legs can sometimes be in quite a lot of pain on a temporary basis - Should I not buy food on those days, or walk an excruciating extra 30 yards past a plethora of empty spaces?
Another argument that I've kept out of but fail to see the logic in is Missy's parking in a row of empty spaces when in a rush and/ or bad weather. The idea here surely is there's 20 empty spaces next to the door and they almost certainly won't be filled before the quick nip in and out is done. The key word here being empty - Would she still park in one of those spaces if there were only 2 or 3 vacant? So the other 50 cars not in one of those spaces, and driven by leg efficient drivers are not an issue - If it can be understood that Missy will not use a space in scarce supply, why would all these other drivers? And what about after around 9pm when the local 24hr supermarket evening staff all park in the disabled spots? The supermarket sets the policy, so if they're not concerned over their staff filling these places, why is it unacceptable for their customers?
But...
I gather lack of legs, or use of ones still fitted is the only disability worthy of a badge, or marked out space on private land. This is precisely the narrow minded thinking that makes me so angry in the first place. I know and have known many people with two working legs, in fact I'd say I've known very few people without two working legs. Yet I've still known a hell of a lot of people who are disabled. I know of people who do have mobility problems that aren't related to numbers or efficiencies of limbs, and not all of them are eligible for a blue badge. Not all would want one either, as they're not asking for mobility scheme car tax or the right to announce to the world they're unwell, but they are mighty grateful for a slot nearer the supermarket door.
It's been assumed I'm not disabled. I'm not about to reel out my medical notes to satisfy someones prejudice or score points on a forum, but if by disabled you mean my leg count then no, I'm not. But even my pair of generally adequate legs can sometimes be in quite a lot of pain on a temporary basis - Should I not buy food on those days, or walk an excruciating extra 30 yards past a plethora of empty spaces?
Another argument that I've kept out of but fail to see the logic in is Missy's parking in a row of empty spaces when in a rush and/ or bad weather. The idea here surely is there's 20 empty spaces next to the door and they almost certainly won't be filled before the quick nip in and out is done. The key word here being empty - Would she still park in one of those spaces if there were only 2 or 3 vacant? So the other 50 cars not in one of those spaces, and driven by leg efficient drivers are not an issue - If it can be understood that Missy will not use a space in scarce supply, why would all these other drivers? And what about after around 9pm when the local 24hr supermarket evening staff all park in the disabled spots? The supermarket sets the policy, so if they're not concerned over their staff filling these places, why is it unacceptable for their customers?
I think that something is being overlooked slightly. I think Frecks mentioned that the disabled shoppers still have to make it round the shop. They are also able to get there by car and leave. All in all seemingly still as capable as anyone else of doing their shopping.
If the shop can offer to help with packing, surely its not too much to offer to help the disabled transport their shopping to the car and load it, or indeed a few other services during their shopping trip.
And all this courtesy does not follow them back home, where they will then have to unload their shopping, and unless they have a designated disability parking space outside their home, find themselves several yards from their own home yet again.
So just how much does it offer to have the designated spaces? Is it all just too much; too late in the history of disability discrimination? Is it only a pc gesture? Not entirely as it does offer a temporary consideration.
We are more likely to use the disabled bays when we are under stress or calculated necessity. In the first case we can no longer consider things; we just need to park because circumstances prevail upon us. In the other its a calculation based on the likelihood that the bays will be empty, and so doing making a considerated decision.
If the shop can offer to help with packing, surely its not too much to offer to help the disabled transport their shopping to the car and load it, or indeed a few other services during their shopping trip.
And all this courtesy does not follow them back home, where they will then have to unload their shopping, and unless they have a designated disability parking space outside their home, find themselves several yards from their own home yet again.
So just how much does it offer to have the designated spaces? Is it all just too much; too late in the history of disability discrimination? Is it only a pc gesture? Not entirely as it does offer a temporary consideration.
We are more likely to use the disabled bays when we are under stress or calculated necessity. In the first case we can no longer consider things; we just need to park because circumstances prevail upon us. In the other its a calculation based on the likelihood that the bays will be empty, and so doing making a considerated decision.
Orgasminator
personally i just drive into the car park and find the first normal space, i drive a big 4x4 and a bigger space would be helpful, but I have bigger things to worry about than walking a few extra spaces to the front door. leave the disabled and P&C spaces to those that want them.
Sex God
Well I'm glad to read a couple of recent balanced views from people who can discern when something is right or wrong - not slavishly follow a prescribed and probably over-provided allocation of spaces.
The implied criticism that Missy has received for using her brain and making a sensible judgement is symptomatic of the mindless political correctness that in fact discredits the the interests of the people it aims to serve.
If the big chain shops took it seriously they would know when their disabled spaces were under pressure and make the restriction of their use time-limited. Not late at night when there's no disabled people wanting to use them.
If they don't then intelligent people will make their own judgement and act accordingly.
Shame on the mindless ones who insist everyone toes the line I say.
Shame on the mindless ones who do use the spaces when they are needed.
Use yer brain!
.
The implied criticism that Missy has received for using her brain and making a sensible judgement is symptomatic of the mindless political correctness that in fact discredits the the interests of the people it aims to serve.
If the big chain shops took it seriously they would know when their disabled spaces were under pressure and make the restriction of their use time-limited. Not late at night when there's no disabled people wanting to use them.
If they don't then intelligent people will make their own judgement and act accordingly.
Shame on the mindless ones who insist everyone toes the line I say.
Shame on the mindless ones who do use the spaces when they are needed.
Use yer brain!
.
Sex God
Quote by winchwench
Hold the phone!
Missy has a brain? :shock:
I saw it once - I swear!
.
Sex God
Quote by essex34m
Hold the phone!
Missy has a brain? :shock:
I'm too shallow to look that far
:wanker:
Good man :thumbup:
