Thanks Frecklebird. Again here's the irony my brother and I find: he is a teacher and tells me about his sheer frustration at having to correct other TEACHERS who have a poor grasp of (a) the English language (b) litter their speech with expletives (albeit in the staff room). Had to laugh - he actually teaches ASBO kids at the moment - and as an incentive requested that he be allowed to put up a 'best story award' competition as an incentive to 'dumb up' the kids. The teacher who teaches English (my brother teaches sciences) - mis-spelt the word 'competition' on the poster which was duly plastered throughout the school!!! Should we laugh or cry?? I find the standard of written and spoken English so poor amongt the kids of today - including my own up to a point I do despair of what the future.
Fact is we - or rather the politicians have created timebomb problems with the 'open door' policy and ironically, it is the majority of Asians who disagree with this policy seeing it as unsettling the future for all of us who are settled here.
Woodlake
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Are we all afraid?
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Sex God
Quote by woodlake
I find the standard of written and spoken English so poor amongt the kids of today - including my own up to a point I do despair of what the future ... Fact is we - or rather the politicians have created timebomb problems with the 'open door' policy
I have to agree with you there - I know language changes a bit with each generation, new slang, new terms etc, and that's natural progression but it does seem to me that the kids of today can't speak English!!!
I think it was a huge mistake NOT to place restrictions on allowing the latest tranch of new EU citizens on coming here to stay/work as it's a huge drain on the economy and welfare system and look what happened the last time. The 'open door' is fine if ALL the EU states are doing it, France & Germany in particular, but everyone else talks a good game about the EU free market, free movement ... but they're all got restrictions in place ... how stupid are we as a nation?
Sex God
Quote by DarkJedi
I think everyone that comes into this country to work and live should have to be able to speak our laungage...
I disagree with that as I don't think it should be a pre-requisite for coming here though I do think immigrant communities should make better efforts to integrate and learning English whilst here is a part of that - integration does NOT equate to the loss of ones national heritage.
"You're" only holding "yourself" and "your" families back by NOT integrating more.
Not entirely true...
If they dont integrate and cant speak the language they are provided with an interpriter(sp?) and then placed in a community where they can be with others of their background..
it seems that a lot of people see a multi-culture society through rose tinted glasses....this country is the easyest country to come and lose your self in with our different cultures ( or ghettos),where no- one really ,i mean really mixes
the government of the day actively encourages people to remain in there comfort zones ( own cultures) with amongst other things all government information leaflets being printed in at least a dozen different languages no where else would this happen but here??
we also employ interpreters etc...how does that help integration? in other countries around the world you are obliged to learn the language and at least be able to read the language to help you communicate with the local government.
so at the moment multi-culturism is not working , but that is down to everybody and not just the "aliens"
the government of the day actively encourages people to remain in there comfort zones ( own cultures) with amongst other things all government information leaflets being printed in at least a dozen different languages no where else would this happen but here??
we also employ interpreters etc...how does that help integration? in other countries around the world you are obliged to learn the language and at least be able to read the language to help you communicate with the local government.
so at the moment multi-culturism is not working , but that is down to everybody and not just the "aliens"
Sex God
Quote by Mallock2006
I think everyone that comes into this country to work and live should have to be able to speak our laungage...
I disagree with that as I don't think it should be a pre-requisite for coming here though I do think immigrant communities should make better efforts to integrate and learning English whilst here is a part of that - integration does NOT equate to the loss of ones national heritage.
"You're" only holding "yourself" and "your" families back by NOT integrating more.
Not entirely true...
If they dont integrate and cant speak the language they are provided with an interpriter(sp?) and then placed in a community where they can be with others of their background..
... so how is that integration? Placing them into communities where they can be with others of their background means there's no incentive to integrate and sounds like a ghetto to me - not a good thing at all ... Surely you must agree that being able to speak your host country's language is a benefit to yourself as it gives you more freedom to do things on your own without being reliant on your kids or other people?
Quote by robhambledon
... leaflets being printed in at least a dozen different languages no where else would this happen but here? ...
I think that's one of the great things about this country, the openness and generosity of it's people, but there is or should be equal openness etc from 'aliens' and in certain communities, there isn't and I have to ask, "Why are you here then?".
... Oh, before anyone thinks I'm being anti-alien ... I'm one myself albeit British born so I can see where things could be better and how they could become worse.
Sex God
Quote by DarkJedi
how stupid are we as a nation?
100% stoopid. Its not only on the issue being discussed that the EU brings in legislation for the whole of the EU there are lots of others as well. Lets take a little look
1: The EU brings in legislation about the minimum standard of housing that is aceptable. What do we do? start forceably evicting pensioners from prefabs that they have happily and safely lived in for over 50 years. What does the rest of the EU do? not a lot that I have seen
2: The EU brings in legislation about safety in childrens parks playgrounds and other public places. What do we do? close all the local parks where I live they didnt meet the standard and its too expensive to put down some bark chippings
Anywhere thats making money gets a large refurbishment rubber flooring etc. What does the rest of the EU do? not a lot again I took my daughter on the last 2 years into parks in the EU with gravel floors and old unsafe equipment by the current rulings.3: The EU brings in harmonisation of fire safety regulations so that we can all understand the signs/markings when in each others back yards. Great in theory only they made us take up there inferior systems insted of taking our previously superior systems into europe. We now have all red fire extinguishers with a little sticker on it to tell us what it is :roll: where previously we had a superior colour coded system. The new EU sign for the fire escape shows a man running :lol2: and what are not supposed to do when there is a fire children :roll:
I could go on and on but I dont have all day. The EU makes rules/legislation whatever you call it and I think currently we are far ahead of everyone else at introducing it. When we finish no doubt they will change it all, me of little faith.
Sex God
Well done Lost for having the courage to bring up a political .................
Quote by H-x
Go to any ex-pat community and you'll find British people living as though they were still here, what's so different to other cultures coming here and doing the same? Is it because it's a culture we're not familiar with so we see i differently? Personally I'd prefer people to come here and feel that they had the freedom to bring their customs and beliefs with them, do we want to turn the whole world into one homogenised society?
H.x
In edit: Ta FB
I am with you, so long as those customs do not adversely affect those already here.
Quote by Argt05
When I lived in Australia I decided that I would integrate myself into the the countries way of life and embrace all she had to offer me, and vice versa!
So I grabbed a tinnie an had a barby on the beach!
Oh, an as for the language??
I speak very good Australian!!
Fair dinkum mate! :thumbup:
It looks as if we all agree that ghettoisation is a bad thing and failure to integrate causes friction.
I'm afraid I don't see holding up ex-pat Brits in Spain as a reason for accepting non-integration, though. Two wrongs don't make a right and that attitude is a big part of why Brits on holiday abroad are so unpopular. Whenever I go to another country I always make the effort to learn some of the language before I go. At least enough to be polite.
Our PC lobby does make it extremely hard to get past the race card in any kind of debate on these matters as anyone who holds an attitude which does not conform to theirs is a racist & therefore to be reviled and ignored.
True, there are racists in every society who do not make it easy for in-comers to be a part of their society, but to tar the whole society with that brush and withdraw into an enclave is no better. To live in a country for 40 years and not learn one word of the native language is not going to endear you to your new neighbours.
Multi-culturalism is meant to be just that; MULTI. Too often it's interpreted as you go play in your corner & we'll stay here in ours and never the twain shall meet. As long as that's the case there'll never be a mutual understanding.
I'm afraid I don't see holding up ex-pat Brits in Spain as a reason for accepting non-integration, though. Two wrongs don't make a right and that attitude is a big part of why Brits on holiday abroad are so unpopular. Whenever I go to another country I always make the effort to learn some of the language before I go. At least enough to be polite.
Our PC lobby does make it extremely hard to get past the race card in any kind of debate on these matters as anyone who holds an attitude which does not conform to theirs is a racist & therefore to be reviled and ignored.
True, there are racists in every society who do not make it easy for in-comers to be a part of their society, but to tar the whole society with that brush and withdraw into an enclave is no better. To live in a country for 40 years and not learn one word of the native language is not going to endear you to your new neighbours.
Multi-culturalism is meant to be just that; MULTI. Too often it's interpreted as you go play in your corner & we'll stay here in ours and never the twain shall meet. As long as that's the case there'll never be a mutual understanding.
Sex God
Quote by Lonni
Now if however i was within a group where there ware Muslims present would i voice those opinions. Or. just keep quiet for fear of being branded a racist or some such other thing?
You DO know that Islam is a religion, NOT a race?
Lonni xxx
I should bloody well hope i do, as i hope others do. What's your point?
Quote by targaid
I'm afraid I don't see holding up ex-pat Brits in Spain as a reason for accepting non-integration, though. Two wrongs don't make a right and that attitude is a big part of why Brits on holiday abroad are so unpopular.
Really?
I thought it was because Brits abroad are generally crap tippers and spend most of the holiday getting shit faced, fighting, trashing hotel rooms and eating chips
Quote by PoloLady
I'm afraid I don't see holding up ex-pat Brits in Spain as a reason for accepting non-integration, though. Two wrongs don't make a right and that attitude is a big part of why Brits on holiday abroad are so unpopular.
Really?
I thought it was because Brits abroad are generally crap tippers and spend most of the holiday getting shit faced, fighting, trashing hotel rooms and eating chips
thats "some" brits!
....besides i never tip at home let alone abroad! Sex God
Quote by PoloLady
I'm afraid I don't see holding up ex-pat Brits in Spain as a reason for accepting non-integration, though. Two wrongs don't make a right and that attitude is a big part of why Brits on holiday abroad are so unpopular.
Really?
I thought it was because Brits abroad are generally crap tippers and spend most of the holiday getting shit faced, fighting, trashing hotel rooms and eating chips
Generally no, its just a small percentage as normal. I always tip, I have never smashed up my hotel room but I do confess to having eaten a moderate amount of chips
Sex God
Quote by Lost
Now if however i was within a group where there ware Muslims present would i voice those opinions. Or. just keep quiet for fear of being branded a racist or some such other thing?
You DO know that Islam is a religion, NOT a race?
Lonni xxx
I should bloody well hope i do, as i hope others do. What's your point?
i think her point is that to say something offensive to someone because they are a muslin is not racist, its sectarian.
Quote by Cherrytree
This is a very interesting discussion.
Last week I was walking my 2 neices (5 & 7) when we came around a corner and in front of us was a muslim lady in the full black dress and veil, with no eye slot at all. This is the first lady I have seen dressed like this i my town, I am ashamed to say that I jumped and my neices screamed. She carried on down the street, and I shushed the girls and told them what it was about, (from my limited understanding).
But I felt awful for the lady. If I had the time again, I feel I would have liked to apologise or at least explain our reaction - but then again, ... part of me thinks, well, was I out of order or not?
No not at all.. your reaction is normal. anything out of the ordinary is slightly fearful.
We had one come to our house not long ago just a tiny slit where her eyes could be seen.. same outfit, we shouted back through the letterbox so she knew how it felt..
yes its a joke... But shoot me anyway Sex God
Quote by mazandden
Now if however i was within a group where there ware Muslims present would i voice those opinions. Or. just keep quiet for fear of being branded a racist or some such other thing?
You DO know that Islam is a religion, NOT a race?
Lonni xxx
I should bloody well hope i do, as i hope others do. What's your point?
i think her point is that to say something offensive to someone because they are a muslin is not racist, its sectarian.
Yeah I realise how my post reads and i see your point now. I did in fact put 'or some such other thing' Which as i read it covered mu statement. Although having stated 'Muslim' and 'racism' i see where i could be misconstrued. I will try to write more clearly next time.
My apolgies Lonni if i seemed to be short. On first reading I thought you were unnecessarily jumpimg on the post. I should of thought more first
I think as it has happened like that before then maybe i am oversensitive. Hope my apology is accepted. Quote by PoloLady
I'm afraid I don't see holding up ex-pat Brits in Spain as a reason for accepting non-integration, though. Two wrongs don't make a right and that attitude is a big part of why Brits on holiday abroad are so unpopular.
Really?
I thought it was because Brits abroad are generally crap tippers and spend most of the holiday getting shit faced, fighting, trashing hotel rooms and eating chips
Speak for yourself Lady.Some Brits are like that. Some English are. Most get along.
Sex God
Off topic but ... targaid ... your avatar ... looks Mandalorian ...
