It's fair to say that it is down to individual choice as to whether or not someone does bareback, hopefully the majority of folks on here would state clearly, even at a meet, what their stance on it was and feel confident enough to stick to that.
Going back to a point made earlier in the thread and coming from the gay community I find the concept of "bug chasing" alarming Although it is prevalent in only in gay men at the moment, there's nothing to say that others wouldn't make the same choices at some point on the future so deliberate infections might not be as far fetched as they seem.
I'm pleasantly surprised about the opinion on this thread. We've always practiced safe sex, and insisted on condoms, but when we've been to swinging clubs, it never ceases to amaze me how many people are more then happy to get involved in group sex without wearing condoms.
I do hate the damn things, but in my opinion they are a necessary evil. That's not to say I criticise others who don't use them, because as other posters have said, we all have the right to exercise our own free will.
Jane xx
Back in the 1960s when I started, there wasn't the same level of risk that there is today.
Plim :violin: :violin: :violin:
i and all the friends that i know must have had charmed lives as a beer drinking non drug taking bloke i have never had nor known of any disease that myself or close friends have had(before the smart ones ask some of us have actually had sex more than once! and not with each other!!)from a personal point of view i have never asked a new girlfriend to take a test nor have i ever been asked to take one!
personally i hate condoms but can see why people insist on them in a swinging environment however if you meet a new partner when and how do you approach the subject of tests etc ????
I have to say that this is one of the least judgemental & open-minded versions of this debate that I've ever seen! Congratulations all. Maybe the poing I always want to make in them will actually get discussed this time...
It seems to me that the swinging environment is actually one in which the use of effective barrier protection becomes almost impossible. As previously mentioned almost no-one uses dental dams and the use of gloves hasn't even come up (unless I missed it somewhere). In any situation, especialy where there is more than one woman involved it is extremely unlikely that truly safe sex will be the result. For example, take the case of an MMFF scenario:
If both women are Bi they are likely to finger each other and probably themselves creating a transmission vector and both guys will add finger-bound vectors, too. If F1 fists F2 then give her own fella a hand-job she creates another. Add toys (how many use condoms on those?)and there's yet another vector, especially if they're used anally; they could be in four people and up to 10 orifices! M1 has intercourse with his own partner and then, being responsible, wears a condom to penetrate F2. He could easily have vaginal fluids on his balls and rub those into F2 even wearing a condom. During the evening M1 gives F2 a facial creating possible transmission vectors through any small cuts she may have or in the eyes if his cum gets in them. M2 pulls out of F1, takes off his condom to cum on her ass. It's likely to trickle into her ass (I've often seen it rubbed into it at this point) or pussy -yet another vector. What if, say, F2 is a squirter and squirts over F1? It's more than likely that F1 will be shaved and could have nicks from shaving - another vector.
How are these preventable? Only by wearing condoms, using dams & wearing surgical gloves and changing them every time partners are changed, washing toys, applying the same rules or not sharing them.
Now be honest. How many of you could even consider being that thorough? If you did could you actually follow it through?
Am I saying we shoudn't bother? No. Just that there are a lot more risks than most folk consider and HIV is, as has been mentioned, probably the least likely of our worries as far as STIs are concerned.
....even using condoms and dams still allow a certain amount of risk.
don't think so, gout and over eating apparently, but he did have syphillis
