Can I just have a quick "Bitch" while nobody is lo

3 Apr 2005

Quote by Parrot
Mike... My apologies for the mistake in the quote thing.
I tried all sorts of ways to seperate your questions from my answers but all I could manage was to get part of my answer in brown.
I'm better at poetry than HTML.

No probs Parrot - I put both quotes of yours in brown in my quote which was in fact partly your quote. Erm...if you see what I mean - without getting a headache lol

.
Mike.

4 Apr 2005

I've always seen SH as a sort of swinging department store. All under one roof, with lots of little sections. In the couples section there are:
Couples seeking men,
Couples seeking women,
Couples seeking single men,
couples seeking single women,
Couples seeking young men,
Couples seeking old men,
Couples seeking young women,
Couples seeking older women,
Couples seeking bi men,
Couples seeking bi women,
Couples seeking younger bi men,
Couples seeking younger bi women,
Couples seeking older bi men,
Couples seeking older bi women,
Couples seeking shaven men,
Couples seeking shaven women,
Couples seeking single bi men,
couples seeking single bi women,
Couples seeking younger single bi men
Couples seeking older single bi men
Couples seeking younger single bi women
Couples seeking older single bi women
couples seeking single shaven bi men,
couples seeking single shaven bi women with shaven pussy,
couples seeking singel shaven bi men with blue eyes,
couples seeking single shaven bi women with blue eyes.
You get the idea, the list could go on ad-infinitum. When you walk in, you can choose to browse wherever you like, and shop wherever you like.
What seems to happen is, married men (and not all of them) are by far the most likely to say 'Any swinger that chooses not to shop in my section, is a hypocrite'.
To answer the original question. Perhaps there are proportionally just as many cheats in gay realationships as in heterosexual relationships. The only difference being, it is married men (and not all of them) that are most likely to get upset at it being called cheating rather than swinging.
lhk
Kat

4 Apr 2005

Quote by Parrot
What I have NOT seen are any such comments aimed at one half of a gay partnership.

My take on this is that it is down to a conceptual thing. People always talk about a problem from their point of view, so that if this site in frequented by lots of married couples and they are discussing the problem of cheating, it would be described around a married couple. Also people when reading an article will usually view it from their stand point, i.e. If you are married and read about cheating you would visualise it as relating to a married couple, if you were single you would visualise it from a single persons point of view.
My point it (Yes there is one) We fill in the blanks when reading things from our own standpoints, if you read about a person and didn't know their sex, age or race, we usally presume they are like us and so from that point on we descrided them as such.
Hence if married couples are discussing cheating it doesn't mean its purely a marraige problem. its just describing those discussing the issue.
Hope this makes some sense redface

PS Maybe we should call them committed relationships, then that covers marriage, gay, straight, polygamy ......

4 Apr 2005

Okay - time to add my tuppence worth.
Firstly, Parrot, I seem to rememebr you posting about your situation some time ago and letting us know that you were married, and that your wife knew you were on here, etc, so I suppose there may be a few more of us out there who know, than you seem to think.
So - now for my opinions on the original question/s. Please note that these are my opinions. They may not be the same as someone elses, and I am open to discussion about these opinions - and, as they are only opinons, they can be changed if you can present me with a good enough argument to convince me otherwise cool

1. As far as I am concerned - having sex with somebody else, without your partner's knowledge and consent is cheating. I do not discriminate between married men, gay men, married women, lesbians, co-habiting couples etc. If you have a "significant other" and you have sex with someone else without their knowledge and consent - you are cheating.
Sex with someone else with your partner's knowledge and consent is not cheating, whether your partner is present or not. However - I am sure the majority of people on here would want to hear that consent come from the partner.
2. The point has been raised about gay men being promiscous and "getting away with it". Okay - well I have a fair few gay men friends and yes a lot of those have "open relationships" - but sex with somebody else is always with the partners knowledge and consent. So really - what they are doing is no different to swinging in my opinion. In fact - one of those relationships broke up through cheating. So cheating and swinging are the same in both the straight and gay world.
3. What about married guys chatting on here? I actually have no personal objection to married guys or girls messing around on this forum and chatting - with or without their partner's knowledge. I personally find the forum enriched becuase not all the people on here actively swing. It can bring new and interesting perspectives. I think we would all agree that the forum would be a lesser place without those already established members that we all know to be married - including yourself Parrot. I, personally, do not see how you can say someone has cheated, just by talking about sex and fantasies.
I do, however, feel that people should be honest and open about their situations, just so we all know - becuase, lets be honest, some of us do meet for sex :twisted: . And it is respectful to know all the facts up front.
4. People who come onto the forum and blatantly ask how they will be received in the swinging world when they are married, will, no doubt, get loads of responses explaining the different ways in which they will be received, and I, personally, think this is good, as it saves me a lot of time when they PM me. The fact that the majority of these people tend to be married men may be why Parrot gets the feeling that only married men are "castigated" dunno

Did I miss anything out there?
aRSexx :color:

4 Apr 2005

Spot on Rainbows biggrin

4 Apr 2005

There are several threads related to these issues of cheating, honesty and integrity, and many contributors do valiant job of upholding and advocating their prespective.
However, I believe that people are selective about many things they say and do. Few of us would offer our lifestyles as 'hobbies and pastime' on a job application form. Those who are parents would be unlikely to tell the school head teacher, church or doctor that they have an 'alternative lifestyle'. And does everyone in your family and relatives know about everything you do?
No, why? Surprise. Because surprise is really really sexy.

4 Apr 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
There are several threads related to these issues of cheating, honesty and integrity, and many contributors do valiant job of upholding and advocating their prespective.
However, I believe that people are selective about many things they say and do. Few of us would offer our lifestyles as 'hobbies and pastime' on a job application form. Those who are parents would be unlikely to tell the school head teacher, church or doctor that they have an 'alternative lifestyle'. And does everyone in your family and relatives know about everything you do?
No, why? Surprise. Because surprise is really really sexy.

So are you saying that cheaters shouldn't tell everyone? That couples should find out by surprise? Or did I miss something? confused

:?
Why should we tell anyone what we do, it's none of their business. We don't ask our childrens' teachers or doctors etc. what kind of lifestyle they lead, so why should they know ours?

4 Apr 2005

FB. You missed something.

4 Apr 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
FB. You missed something.

What did I miss?

4 Apr 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
FB. You missed something.

Obviously I've missed it too cos I don't see how your arguement relates to cheating.

4 Apr 2005

the.

4 Apr 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
The principles of cheating sexually have been thrashed out many times in the forum. My point is that if people don't extend their code beyond sexuality are they also cheating at a more fundamental level of human relationships?

Errrrrrr............ no, that doesn't follow at all confused

4 Apr 2005

Do you see what I mean?

4 Apr 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
The principles of cheating sexually have been thrashed out many times in the forum. My point is that if people don't extend their code beyond sexuality are they also cheating at a more fundamental level of human relationships?

No, we don't have sex with our doctors, childrens' teachers, parents and friends. What's that got to do with cheating?

4 Apr 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
Do you see what I mean?

No - you've lost me too. Perhaps you'd like to explain a bit more?

4 Apr 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
Do you see what I mean?

Nope.

4 Apr 2005

I doubt..

4 Apr 2005

Would it be fair to say I am totally confused

John

4 Apr 2005

I won't do my bollocks because I don't have any but I do think that's a load of bollocks anyway. Nobody goes around with a placard declaring all the details about themselves, so your argument would imply that all humanity are cheaters and that, as such, cheaters are like the rest of us. confused

4 Apr 2005

I agree with Freckledbird. Your logic implies just that - that every single person out there is a cheater, something I am not sure the author of this thread was intending to suggest.

Quote by duncanlondon
However gays have lived through that kind of prejudice and won a victory.

Oh have we? We have maybe won a few battles but we are still victimised at work and in society at large. We still don't have equal partnership rights etc etc etc (too damn knackered after my trip the USA last night to go any further, and this isn't really relevant in this thread I don't think)

4 Apr 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
I doubt many of us would go about declaring what we do in our 'private' lives. We would become known as either a trouble maker or plain mad. However gays have lived through that kind of prejudice and won a victory. I don't believe there are many in other sexual social groups who are ready to do this yet. Therefore I believe that to a certain extent they are cheating on humanity by being fundamentally dishonest as they are not prepared to disclose their true life.
I really hope you don't all do your bollocks on this one.

I understand that point and have a certain degree of sympathy with it - I don't agree with it but I do have sympathy with it. However, it is completely different that cheating on one's partner.

4 Apr 2005

I got to go to. This is something I have wanted to say in the context of cheating etc.
See you soon.

4 Apr 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
I got to go to. This is something I have wanted to say in the context of cheating etc.
See you soon.

Byeeeeeeeeeeee

4 Apr 2005

Quote by Parrot
]A couple of people on here know my situation and surely I would need to be an active swinger before wether my wife knows about me using this site would even be an issue.
As it happens, she does know about the site and that I am here. She also knows that I like meeting people in a social way which is something that she can't do.
Is there anything wrong with that?
Can I not be just a social swinger while flirting outrageously?

if that's the crux of the matter, then parrot, firstly, your wife knows you are here, so there is nothing that could be described as deceit? your relationship doesn't matter in that case, as it's the deceit that i think would be the main issue, and clearly that doesn't apply.
on the other hand i can also think back to similiar situations where a member agonised because he too was a socially minded outrageous flirt, and left the "tell the wife" thing for a wee while until he sussed out the approach and got his head round the whole thing ((( i think. ))) he had nothing but encouragement and support ((( i think! ;) might be selective memory there! ;) ))) and i sometimes wonder if he would be here now ((( or his wife for that matter ))) if the kind of attitude i think you're on about, was much in evidence back then? dunno

personally, i don't have a problem with anyone's membership of the site, though some might argue membership signifies intent. some would argue it's just a website like any other. IMO honesty / openness should be valued, whatever their status, cos there is precious little enough of it IRL.
course i could have completely the wrong end of the stick, in which case, disregard this post and skip it. ;)
neil x x x ;)

4 Apr 2005

not wanting to further stir any hornets nests but....
If my missus spends Â£100 on a pair of sunglasses and tells me they cost Â£20 and that she paid for them from her account, and I later discover that she lied to me for fear of me being a might bit pissed off, and did the same for haircuts over a period of say 3 years or so (Damn Tony & Guy)and simply says oh its only money.....
the fact that she lied to me about this surely by your arguments would give me justification in saying oh its only sex if I were ever to be unfaithful to her, does it? im not sure.
and secondly, should it only be called cheating for couples in a relationship with religious meaning, after all prior to christianity I think that infidelity was almost the norm. I'm not religious at all (but curiously i am married)
I think ive confused myself more now

5 Apr 2005

Wonderful post, Judy, every word is spot on. worship

Mike.

5 Apr 2005

Quote by JudyTV

Parrot, being as you are outside of the gay/bi and trans-world and by your own admission to me last Thursday night that was your first venture into the Gay Village I would expect you will have been somewhat insulated and detached from what is said and done by those inside that world and what is generally accepted within it. Taking this into account I have some difficulty in seeing how or what you base your original posting on , I can assure you it is discussed within that community both within the gay/bi publications and amongst the groups and web sites too.
If he is here without the intention to meet anyone then his being here is again questionable in my opinion. There are other sites that will fulfill social needs so social reasons does not really hold water.
With regard to telling everyone about all our social activities and about us being who and what we are is about as wise as using an outside toilet on a Jumbo Jet.
Judy

That was a very good post, Judy, and well written but the above points need an answer, I think.
Yes, it was my first venture into the Village but the Village is not the only place on Earth where like minded denizens can be found. By that, I mean that Thursday was not the first time I had ever seen a Tranvestite, Transgender, Gay or Bi person so your assumption that I was lost is incorrect although I will freely admit that some of the terminology was strange to my ears.
As for your comment about having some difficulty in seeing how or what I base my original posting on, have you misunderstood the post?
It was supposed to be asking if there was a difference in the way that a cheating husband and a cheating half of a gay partnership were treated on SH, not in the community at large. I only asked the question because there have been many comments made about what rotton twats cheating husbands are but NONE that I could find about any other type of partnership. This just seemed strange to me so I asked, not realising how much of a hornets nest it would stir up.
On the the next point......
That sounds as though you are telling me to get off the site.
If that's true, and not being the type to push my nose in where it isn't wanted, I'll pack my bags and push off.
You are right though. There are other sites with a social flavour to them but this is probably one of the better ones with meets all over the country.
Re your last point above, I think that may have been a reply to somebody else because I don't think I have ever mentioned anything about doing that.

5 Apr 2005

Parrot the last point was brought up by Duncanlondon, not by Judy. Bless her, she's gone and got all confused again biggrin

5 Apr 2005

Quote by Parrot
Without getting into the subject as such, I have seen quite a few posts on various threads where it has been suggested that married men, who's wives do not participate in SH or in some cases do not even know of their husbands involvement, are cheating and should therefore be horse-whipped.
What I have NOT seen are any such comments aimed at one half of a gay partnership.
Does that mean that gays of both sexes are allowed to cheat?
Obviously it doesn't mean that but I hope you , dear reader, can see the point I am trying to make.

What's your point?