i know this might be contentious and im yet to think it fully through but .. clubs that advertise ''regular girls'' ie ''gang bang night this wednesday with sally and gina .. £30 all in'' etc.. should they be allowed on this site? is this swinging?
personally i think this site is being used! and used to promote a seedy side to this lifestyle that is growing..
there are several saunas that could im sure advertise here under the current rules that are most definitely not swingers clubs..
i dont hear many complain about this on here to be honest so maybe its just me.. but im not sure this is swinging.
They are 'upmarket' sex workers. They get paid but not directly by the customers.
Its not swinging. Its a sex market.
They are not crack addicted street whores or even the lower budget sauna/massage parlour sex workers.
The Lady Marmalade Parties are a good example of a 'co-operative' type sex organisation.
Greedy girl nights etc. All can be good fun and you think its a bit of a laugh. But its still sex work.
No it probably isn't upmarket if money is actually being transacted directly. Then it is just prostitution.
But a lot of these clubs are playing a game of ignorance and avoidance of the law, to provide sex for willing punters.
But its not swinging. So the point is made I think.
Also I think the way some of these clubs and events are organised, are exploiting the growth in swinging. By simply saying their events are about swinging or adult sexual leisure. Creating a grey area where they can make a quick buck.
So many of the so called swingers at these event are in fact punters. But unfortunately this leaves the unsuspecting Ronseal swinger likely to blunder into this situation unaware.
Its not just clubs that use the service of these girls
we found a few of the paid house parties employed their services, thus we no longer do paid house parties of any kind :sad:
this is wrong to be on a swinging site,
i remember a female escort who was here on a purely personal reason, not charging nor advertising that was banned when it came out what her job was.
i would be rather pissed off if i went to a club and found the person i had sex with was not infact there with mutual reasons but had had sex with me because they were being paid to.
aslo a side of me thinks the men would be flocking to the paid ladies for a defo shag and probally no restrictions.
it can also lower the respect then given/ shown to the non paid females.
just breads alot of suspicion to me.
and no it shouldnt be allowed on here
x fem x
first off .. i didnt start this thread because i have issues with unforced prostitution in most of its adult forms . just wanted to make this clear.. i also have no issues with working girls using this site for pleasure.
The problem i have is what would appear to be the growing number of ''swingers clubs/parties'' that are using our lifestyle to make a lot of money through what i can only interpret as prostitution.. its just not swinging , the hard part it would seem is making a stand against it when its such a grey area when you question whats going on..
this is something this site needs to address and with its eyes wide open and no sense of naivety.
We know there are supply and demand issues in swinging.. there will never be enough women to fulfil the need of the many men that would fuck them.. fact, using paid girls to fill that gap is wrong! more wrong if its hidden in any way and promoted by this site..
id be keen to hear the flip side of this argument, im sure someone will come along soon and tell me im talking bollox. i am honestly open to your ideas.
It appears that peoples opinions are more down to moral judgement. What the clubs are doing is not illegal. Clubs are a business and therefore are there to make money. Single guys pay far to much money to get into a club and after a few visits to a club and not getting anything for their money would never be seen again.
There is always the argument about 'singles' and swinging. Some singles enjoy the social as well as the other areas of a swinging lifestyle and these are swingers. However, there are far more singles after a quick and easy shag. We have spoken to a number of single guys who have said that it is cheaper and easier to go to a club and get laid than to go down town on the pull and have to buy a girl drinks all night in the hope that she will put out.
This site allows clubs to advertise their events. Are you saying that the clubs should only be allowed to advertise certain events or that only certain clubs should be allowed to advertise on this site? A quick and careful re-wording of the event advert would circumvent any of these restrictions, in effect causing your disliked advertisement to go 'underground'. As it stands YOU have the option to avoid these events. If it went 'underground' these events would still happen but you would be none the wiser. I know which I would prefer.
currently clubs that are open and honest have their adverts removed so im not causing this issue you speak of, my whole issue here is the clubs that hide the fact they employ girls to satisfy the needs of the visitors and pretend to be swingers clubs. Nothing illegal about a lot of things in this world but you wouldnt advertise all of them on here.
What if a club gets raided by police on a tip off that it was employing the services of working girls, now if my wife and i was at one of these clubs, ignorant to what was going on behind the scenes, whats saying she wouldn't be accused/suspected of being a paid girl? These sorts of club's that advertise as swingers clubs, are doing more damage than good, i think we have a hard enough time, as it is from the media without this added to the grief! So we avoid clubs now that advertise Greedy Girls Night, i'm sure some are genuine but we're not taking any chances and will just stick to Couples Only Nights!
i think once swinging moved out of the living room into a venue this kind of thing was inevitable.
so really the answer is to return to the domestic meetings with people who you know or are vouched for.
but if swingers want to take pot luck or up their hit rate, they are going to be lured into these bigger meetings and venues and will find they have to do their own screening.
a few weeks ago a thread was removed on here because it suggested if you paid your entrance fee you could fuck these ''girls'' all night long, im guessing that was in breach of the sites AUP or some such ruling, personally , at the time, i think the site did the right thing by removing it, however its very obvious that this paid girls thing is going on more than i originally thought, i was concerned about one or two clubs no more, am i right in thinking this happens at many greedy girls nights? really didnt know it did.. so if thats the case and clubs hide behind the 'swingers' theme for this activity and Swinging Heaven cant or will not ban clubs that advertise this kind of event , then can i suggest its made perfectly clear by clubs that the girls are paid staff and are paid to have sex with would be clients .. this of course would nbe clear to all then who visit the clubs and we would have the opportunity to make a clear and informed judgment on where we are willing to go to play..
i know many swingers who like Mr Powers who would not wish to go to a club and play amongst girls working and guys expecting to get their monies worth, im sure our loss to a club would be a smaqll one compared to the revenue they would raise if they advertised on here exactly what was going on, many people would flock to such clubs for the guaranty of a fuck.
Like i said at the start i hadnt thought this through from comments made im now of the opinion its not a banning thats needed or possible but an openness!
Do people think clubs would be prepared to be hones about what they are offering if they could be honest and advertise on here? or do you think they would still mislead some of us into thinking the girls are actual swingers who want to be fucked by you because they are swingers?
had another rethink and am now concerned that if clubs were open about what they did and sh allowed it we could advertise, and so could anyone else, along these lines
'' Debbie would like to invite you to her home where you can fuck her all night long for the entrance fee of 50 quid im not a hooker and offering my services on here im a swingers club '' all we would need is a website with no hits a month and a sh banner on it?
is this the direction this site should go in? is that legal?
its quite a contentious subject isnt it?
I hope that what I'm about to write doesn't annoy too many people but hey hoo!
The arguments against the use of paid hostesses are (whether you admit it or not) based on moralistic views of solicitation and how we choose to view "swinging."
We have sexual encounters with fairly random people who we know nothing about. The clubs and girls are doing nothing wrong. This site is doing nothing wrong. At no point do the adds for the clubs state that the hostess/greedy girls will be getting paid to take on all comers. It is only by doing a little fishing around "off site" that this practice has been brought to peoples attention.
We get regular invites to parties organised by a friend of ours to ensure that things get going (unpaid of course)! Hostesses paid or not are there to do the same thing.
If the thought that there are single girls and couples who are paid to help get the party started goes against any ones views of swinging then perhaps you should avoid clubs and carry out back ground checks on private meets to ensure that they have no skeletons lurking in the closet.
So in short the clubs, hostesses and this site are doing nothing wrong apart from offend certain people's morals. What we all do on this site offends many, many people and yet we choose to push this out of our minds because we are doing nothing wrong. It's all about choice and the choice is yours!
OOH what a lovely thread.
My experience of clubs is that there is a spectrum of trade. You have to go and have a look and have your wits about you to work out how overtly or covertly "hostesses" are provided.
Even the most upmarket clubs may well have staff whose primary duty is to get the party started or keep the blokes it might be the clubs owners sometimes it might be salaried staff.
If you think about it even offering free entry for lasses whilst charging £50 quid for single fellas is creating a financial mismatch within which blokes are paying to get laid and women are profiting from being available to get laid. If you think about it even more swinging is just sexual barter wherein couples trade sexual favours. No money changes hands but even in its purest "wife swapping" form, swinging is a trade, you lend me yours and I will lend you mine.
It doesn't cause me any great moral issues. When I go clubbing I am a little shallow and leave my morals at the door.
Well thats my thinking. For what its worth.
Any club advertising "girls" is clearly operating as a brothel. Swingers have the right to know, before attending such venues, that this selling of sexual services is taking place .... they can then decide for themselves whether or not they wish to attend and or participate.
As far as advertising on this site is concerned I'm really not sure.. Perhaps there is room for advertising professional services, in the same way as sex toys might be retailed, but it should be made perfectly clear that this is not swinging and that the two are not related. So would clearer categorising of these ads work, and if so are we then saying that escorts may also advertise on site?
