so here's some more thoughts that are currently on my mind, shooting from the hip again so happy to listen to alternate ones...
mr x takes no precautions, he's riddled with all manner of disease but isn't aware of it, he plays with mrs y, she was of course clean as a whistle till then! no precautions again.. we as a community say we shouldn't judge its up to them
the mind set says for these this is ok. mrs y plays with mrs b who takes care that when she plays she always uses condoms for penetration... so no worries here for her then! I play with mrs b knowing that's how she plays and feel comfortable with how she plays shes Been honest with me and I accept this, we are indulging in low risk some say oral without protection, but hasn't that risk gone through the roof due to mrx and mr y playing in a manner we say we 'should nt 'critiscise, I've simplified this of course for the sake of the thread however that's where my thinking has got to right now... I'm not one for judging anyone but wholesale acceptability of unsafe sex basEd on its their choice and it won't effect me simply can't be right or can it, lets say I was lucky, the infection mrs b has didn't pass to me due to the low risk element of our encounter.... this time..... one other thing, I had it said to me last night ...but we get tested regularly as if that will make a difference to my safety, being tested protects others not the tested! we are currently not playing as a result of these thoughts. possibly down to the 'its ok let them get on
with unsafe sex' community attitude. over zealous at the moment maybe but its bugging me so we switch to red light till we are settle
on our planbof attack.
note this is not condemnation from me because I'm really undecided about this I hope you guys can argue me wrong.
Thanks stagy,
testing is good, but unless we inform all we have played with since the last negative test then we are shutting the stable door after the whole heard has bolted. Even then all the partners most warn all their partners, embarrassing!
Travis
WRATS, I do understand where you are coming from with the example you have given, and yes there are major health risks involved with swinging/playing or whatever you want to call it.
But where do we stop? Safe(r) Sex is something that the majority of us agree is essential, there are different views over oral sex, but what about kissing and the risks involved in that?
"Deep kissing carries the same risks as light kissing, plus the exchange of fluids (the aforementioned spit-swapping) increases those risks. It also allows for other sexually transmitted diseases to pass, such as Herpes Simplex Virus-2, Hepatitis B and Syphilis. The trick to dramatically lowering your risks is to really know your partner well, to know their sexual history, and to know their current health status (the couple who gets tested together doesn't get a disease together.... something like that). "
i agree with the fact that other peoples actions do have an impact on us.i would never condem someone for their choices, but it certainly would impact on our choices regarding them.
the way we look at it, our safety is more important that the risk of offending someone.
to be honest its really rare we play, prob 2 or 3 times a year, but then it only takes once to catch someting doesnt it.
we use condoms for sex with other people, not for oral. so i guess there is a risk there. like other people have said, we have weighed up the risks and whilst its not ideal, thats as far as we are willing to take it.
i would not knowingly engage in unprotected oral sex with someone who i knew took more risks than me ( ie sex without condoms) but thats the problem isnt it, the majority of people dont give you their sex cv when you play. and even those who honestly say they dont do bearback, if they have had unprotected oral with someone else who does... its like a domino effect.
it is worrying.
we tend to be tested quite regularly and have been ok up untill now.
fronm the other side of the coin though....
ages ago ( a year or more) we were at a party hosted by a member of this site.
we were upstairs in the playroom with another couple from this site and had engaged in some softswing fun and were then having sex with out own partners.
now me and him dont use condoms between ourselves and so as we had only had sex with each other, and the other couple had only had sex with each other, no condoms were used.
a female half of a couple who may or may not still be members of this site ( i cant be arsed to check) came in the room and commented that we were all disgusting as she had not seen one condom in use during our session!
firstly we put her straight regarding who was with who etc and when she carried on i think i told her in no uncertain terms where she could go.
my question is, does anyone think THAT type of behaviour is acceptable?
so... in a nutshell going back to my scenario and taking me out of the equation and replacing mrs b with 'your' wife or anyone elses in particular the practice of mr x and mrs y now adds a whole new dimension to the risk factor... and our safety is based purely on the honesty of the folk we play with and there unknown sexual practices that afternoon , week, month or year etc.. yet we still say its non of our business how they play? and when you next witness this behaviour you turn away and just make a note not to play with them yourselves, forgive the controvercial thoughts but I've taken this too far and to honestly to hold back my ideas now... yes this has been an exercise to get you thinking and yes I've rolled my thoughts along with the responses we have given, I come to the conclusion that I wholeheartedly condemn irresponsible sexual activities openly on here, its not just their choice as it potentially flucks up everyone elses lives as well. if unprotected penatrative sex is the big danger!
staggy
xx
Having sex with any people outside of a monogamous relationship, where both have clear test results, is a risk to your health.
1 To lower the risk you use a condom for penetrative sex.
2 To lower it further you use a condom or dam for oral sex.
3 To lower it further you use a condom on any toys.
4 To lower it further you do not kiss the other people.
5 To lower it further you do not kiss or lick any other part of the other people.
6 To lower it further you use surgical gloves to touch other people.
7 To lower it further you don't swing.
Between 1-7 and depending on what you expect the others to do or not do is your risk factor. That is your acceptance of that risk. For those that do 1-6 any other type of play is irresponsible, those that do 1 only believe those that do none of them irresponsible.
So where is the line drawn to make a person or couple not irresponsible. That is down to the individuals who will be playing. It is their life. They know the risks that are acceptable to them. It shouldn't be down to others to condemn them.
Individuals can only look after themselves not others.
As for tests.......I have been told by many people "we have had tests and we are clear"......but never once have they shown me the test results. People fib, tell porkies or damn well lie........whatever way you look at it, it is down to your own evaluation of the risk to you that will govern the way you want or not want to play.
For penetrative sex to be seen as the "bigger" problem or more risky is starting to sound like Tony Blairs speach before going to war. HIV can be contracted by a variety of sources, some more risky than others, but the risk will be irrelevant if you were the person who contracted it by a lower risk activity. So to condemn only those that did not use condoms for penetrative sex is proverbial person throwing stones in a greenhouse.
The only way to be safe is to have sex with your own partner and give up swinging. If people carry on swinging......then as adults they accept a risk, at whatever level they wish. But if it goes tits up for them then they only have themselves to blame, not others.
Dave_Notts
But surely the greatest risk would be, as i am led to believe not using condoms for penetrative sex. Ok well if that takes out the major factor at least there lies a conscience. My care is not for the 'knowing' swinger but for the unknowing loved one/partner/family that may have to live with the ]consequences of a piece of blatent stupidity. It's not 'upto' them is it!
F*ck me. the crap about its an individuals choice just so pisses me off its like wanting to be everybodies friend. Bollox to that.
Oh and if it was possible to enforce protected intercourse (i know cloud cuckoo land) between people other than your spouse etc then if i was the government i wouldn't hold back
.
Make wearing a condom like breathing - dont think about it just have to do it.
so drink driving is ok too? at the end of the day the drivers put themselves at the highest risk, its just one of many ways you can be killed on the road side, to avoid them completely stay away from them,
thankfully over the last few years people have started to take their heads out the sand and have recoognised it is a major risk that needs removing from society, people have started to pour scorn on drunks who drive, it makes a difference to attitudes and the likelyhood of offending, an acceptance of drink driving is like giving a green light to the weak willed thus endangering those that walk the streets with a clear conscience, this is just analogy of social acceptance, people get dragged in to bad behaviour if their peers allow them to, I can see unprotected
penatrative sex is one of many ways that's unsafe but it would seem on here from what I've read it is the major problem, so like drink driving as opposed to driving while a little tired should we just turn a blind eye as it is juat another 'risk', I think we may beg to differ but this is what I call swinging political correctness s p c and to me it takes the you shall not judge too far.
staggy
xx
you can never force the hand, it just wont work, so the making it compulsory argument doesnt stand up, i dont think it was ever intended that way anyhow, a passing comment to show the strength of feeling, lets not get side tracked by it..
you can however encourage safe play, like someone said on another thread just recently quoting someone or other from history but flucked if i can remember, is all it takes is just a few good men to do nothing!
expression of opinion in this community will influence others contrary to what some may think, it does all the time, if the opinion is subdued because we dont want to rub folk up the wrong way then condom anarchy takes place with those that choose that kind of play, it will and does have a knock on effect for all of us, to argue you dont have to play is complete rubbish, i know we dont and you dont etc, but we dont have to do anything do we, the things we choose to do to make our lives as enjoyable or interesting as we can and to openly encourage safe sex and limiting the risk as low as is feesable to carry on partaking in such activities surely should be encouraged, its not about blameing everyone except myself your self etc its about safety within this community, is this not a community, arent their unwritten rules of beahaviour, i think this site alone has plenty you shall not do this you shall not do that, all manner of breaches of the AUP that can get you removed from here for the safety of others, and the ability to carry on swinging in a safe enviroment, yet still we have this SPC of turning a blind eye to what has been sugested as the most serious form of unsafe play...i wont put some little lol characters here as i fail to see the funny side at all in the consequences.
right now im off for a weekend of splashing about in a kayak on Bala, i will be wearing my pfd, and i will be sober as i drive there.. EVEN THOUGH ITS sort of JUST MY RISk, ill consider my passengers and the rescue services that may have to risk their lives to save mine. See a connection anyone.
Enjoy the debate there will never be an answer to this i knew that at the start but it may just encourage some to at least think twice before they fuck themselves to an early grave.
see i have been enjoying seeing the different views here.
i think it boils down to people may not have an obligation to protect themselves and so possibly others, but they probably have a responsibilty to do so.
however, i feel this is a log way from my experience where someone made an assumption, did not know the situation and then had to cheek to insult me/us and our behaviour.
ie suggest we were playing with others unprotected when it was actually only our own partners we were having sex with.
i just feel thats the other side of the "ots our buisness what others do" thing.
personally i wouldnt knowingly play with someone i considered a risk, and i guess appart from using condowms when we play, and hoping that others are as concientious - that all we can do barring not playing at all.
