condom wake up call!

31 Jul 2007

Quote by Dave__Notts
I remember a thread like this in the past.
Someone put up that as well as men wearing condoms for penetrative sex, they pointed out that sti's can be passed by oral sex. So is the issue here that you want to pass the message on that all sexual activity should be with the use of a condom and femidom for both penetrative sex and oral sex........or just penetrative sex and worn by the man.
Just being nosey as I remembered someone talking about all the sti's that can be passed on by oral sex. So should a femidom be used by women and a condom by a man for oral sex in your view or is that not unbelievably selfish or have a total disregard for their safety and the safety of others.
We use condoms for penetrative sex but not oral. Something that we may have to think about.
Dave_Notts

all im saying and i admit im no expert is wake up and smell the coffee, as far you want to go , go... your choice, ask your gu med clinic for advice not me..i know what they will say, lets face it you can have a hiv test on the back of one unprotected sexual encounter , penetrative or not, i had one a while back because i helped a junky with severe injuries at the roadside, i was advised to by the police as the guy said he had Aids, the risks are for you alone to way up, the social comment on what i see was for me to make....this subject isnt discussed nearly often enough on swinging sites, im expecting redicule and maybe a little abuse from certain quarters for starting this thread , we have had it before when someone said we were a waste of time as we once said in our profile , "fluids do not get exchanged" not sure if its still there, may have taken it out , i know we thought about it because of the shit we got in the chatroom over it.... but for flucks sake, thats safe sex !!
anyway this isnt about us, its just a general comment to maybe make folk think twice before filling themselves with fluids that may just contain more than they bargained for...
wrats
xx
I didn't ask for your advice. I asked for your view.
You made your point on penetrative sex which I agreed with, I was wondering what view you have on unprotected oral sex since you were very condeming of those that do not have protected penetrative sex.
Dave_Notts
ive had a re read of my posts on this thread, i dont think im being very condemning of anyone, more so the practice, ive said its down to choice , im not sure that i made my point specificly about penetration although i would suggest that it is one of the higher risk elements of sex regarding the spreading of disease, go check that out, im doing this from memory not expertise...
hiv can be spread by any open wound, thats my view on oral, anal, vaginal or manual, yes it includes stimulation by hand if there are open wounds, where you draw the line as far as protection is concerned is your business , perhaps over zealous would not play at all, and fool hardy would not protect at all, thats my view,
staggy

31 Jul 2007

Quote by wild rose and the stag
I remember a thread like this in the past.
Someone put up that as well as men wearing condoms for penetrative sex, they pointed out that sti's can be passed by oral sex. So is the issue here that you want to pass the message on that all sexual activity should be with the use of a condom and femidom for both penetrative sex and oral sex........or just penetrative sex and worn by the man.
Just being nosey as I remembered someone talking about all the sti's that can be passed on by oral sex. So should a femidom be used by women and a condom by a man for oral sex in your view or is that not unbelievably selfish or have a total disregard for their safety and the safety of others.
We use condoms for penetrative sex but not oral. Something that we may have to think about.
Dave_Notts

all im saying and i admit im no expert is wake up and smell the coffee, as far you want to go , go... your choice, ask your gu med clinic for advice not me..i know what they will say, lets face it you can have a hiv test on the back of one unprotected sexual encounter , penetrative or not, i had one a while back because i helped a junky with severe injuries at the roadside, i was advised to by the police as the guy said he had Aids, the risks are for you alone to way up, the social comment on what i see was for me to make....this subject isnt discussed nearly often enough on swinging sites, im expecting redicule and maybe a little abuse from certain quarters for starting this thread , we have had it before when someone said we were a waste of time as we once said in our profile , "fluids do not get exchanged" not sure if its still there, may have taken it out , i know we thought about it because of the shit we got in the chatroom over it.... but for flucks sake, thats safe sex !!
anyway this isnt about us, its just a general comment to maybe make folk think twice before filling themselves with fluids that may just contain more than they bargained for...
wrats
xx
I didn't ask for your advice. I asked for your view.
You made your point on penetrative sex which I agreed with, I was wondering what view you have on unprotected oral sex since you were very condeming of those that do not have protected penetrative sex.
Dave_Notts
ive had a re read of my posts on this thread, i dont think im being very condemning of anyone, more so the practice, ive said its down to choice , im not sure that i made my point specificly about penetration although i would suggest that it is one of the higher risk elements of sex regarding the spreading of disease, go check that out, im doing this from memory not expertise...
hiv can be spread by any open wound, thats my view on oral, anal, vaginal or manual, yes it includes stimulation by hand if there are open wounds, where you draw the line as far as protection is concerned is your business , perhaps over zealous would not play at all, and fool hardy would not protect at all, thats my view,
staggy
One thing I have learnt on this forum is to be open minded of what others do. If people wish to undertake a practice that is risky for them, then that is their choice. They know the risks, they know the consequences and they take that choice as grown adults.
My view is that others should not force on others their wants as foolhardy. They know what they are doing and will accept the consequences of their own actions.
Am I condoning unprotected sex. Not at all. I am condoning their freewill to accept the risks. It is not for us but each to their own, we just wouldn't.
Dave_Notts

31 Jul 2007

i agree dave , that may surprise you, people can do just what they want for me, they can ride motorcycles in the rain on bald tyres at two hundred miles an hour what do i care, they can play chicken on a motorway with a blindfold on, they can have sex with strangers without condoms, foolhardy is my view of each of these, im not imposing my thoughts im giving my thoughts , thats what the forum is for, if we dont post our thoughts whats left?
go and read a multitude of threads and its all opinion and comment , you will see folk condeming this and that, they have every right to share their views, thats just what im doing, if anyone wishes to pop an alternate view bring it on, an alternate view that says unsafe sex is the way forward,
staggy

31 Jul 2007

yet again i read the condom thread and have to chuckle to myself at a couple of comments made by people showing utter disgust at the though of having sex without condoms when i know damn well that they dont always use them :shock: i never understand this subject if you have unprotected sex why do you feel the need so lie about it? or if you do feel what you have written is true then why have unprotected sex? just seems a bit like double standards when people that i know damn well dont use condoms look down their noses at other!!! i dont always use them but as always i admit it so it makes me laugh when people we have played with without protection belittle other for doing what they have done ;)

31 Jul 2007

Ive noticed that the chatroom has a room for bareback sex. In the light of the current thread here is this irresponsible of the site to allow this room to exist?

1 Aug 2007

Wow, it seems to be sexual health a-go-go around here. Really pleased to see so many people getting involved in a serious discussion, here and on our other thread below.
Well, our standpoint is that you live (hopefully) and learn. We don't use condoms with each other; we hadn't thought of using them for sex toys (ok, Ms T shared a double-ender with someone, and we can't be 100% sure she always had the same end of it...) and our decision at the moment is to not use them for oral sex.
We didn't actually use them for our first swinging encounter; we had intended to but then kind of got bounced into things due to a misunderstanding. That prompted some serious discussions, and tests (and more tests three months later: you know about the sero conversion thing? HIV does not show up in HIV tests until you have had it for three months , which is why it's really important to get tested often, and getting tested right after an encounter may not help)... and a firm commitment to always use condoms and mention that early doors in any swinging meets.
Re oral sex. **please note the following represents only our personal opinions and we respect other people's rights to be more or less careful** On reading the article linked above by Cherrytree - rimming appears to be a high risk activity; and genital warts and herpes are a genuine concern. Most of the diseases on the list are either transmitted by rimming, which we don't do to strangers, or carry a theoretical or unproven risk of transmission.
We did some research of our own a while ago. The one we were mainly interested in was HIV, and the best article we found was this one from the British Medical Journal: Oral sex and HIV transmission
David A Hawkins, from Sexually Transmitted Infections 77 :307-308 (2001). It's available online here but you need an Athens login. We can email you it if you pm us.
Anyway the key quotes were:

"As discussed elsewhere in this issue (see syphilis symposium, pp 309–26) oral sex appears to be important in the resurgence of early infectious syphilis in the United Kingdom. Many of these latter cases have been in HIV positive individuals and it is likely that co-infection with syphilis would increase the risk of (oral) transmission of HIV."
"Vittinghoff et al have come up with an estimate of % following receptive oral intercourse with a known, or possibly HIV infected, partner."
"Receptive fellatio with ejaculation with a known HIV individual is probably the only oral sex activity of sufficient risk to justify consideration of provision of PEP . Additional factors such as a known high viral load in the source, recent dental surgery, pharyngitis, trauma, oral ulceration, or bleeding gums would also increase the likely risk."
"In conclusion, unprotected oral sex carries a risk for the transmission of HIV. It is possible that it may lead to 6–8% of new HIV infections".

...although the UK's public health laboratory estimates 1-3% of HIV cases are due to oral sex, and a recent ten-year study of 100 gay couples where one partner was HIV positive didn't find any instances of transmission through oral sex source .
This is quite good, and this is the San Fransisco city clinic's risk chart - I'd say probably world leaders in the field.
...Basically you pays your money and takes your choice. Syphillis is one we didn't know about before tonight and we're going to look at again. Pleasingly, according to the SFCC chart the only thing you can catch from cunnilingus is herpes - we really don't find dental dams to be much fun, so it's nice that there is one of life's pleasures that we don't have to give up (that of eating stranger pussy - yum!)
Can you tell I'm avoiding doing some work?

1 Aug 2007

Quote by Kandleman
Ive noticed that the chatroom has a room for bareback sex. In the light of the current thread here is this irresponsible of the site to allow this room to exist?

The site is a venue - not an arbiter of sexual conduct (except if there is a legal basis).
Either don't go in the room - or go in and note the names of the members you'll never meet 'cos they have an interest in bareback sex!
On the wider issue of condom conduct, do couples who play MMF have both guys use condoms while playing (even if in their everyday sex lives the couple don't use them)?

1 Aug 2007

Quote by Kandleman
Ive noticed that the chatroom has a room for bareback sex. In the light of the current thread here is this irresponsible of the site to allow this room to exist?

Why? It's not illegal to have unprotected sex. People either go in there or they don't - simple. You could say the same about any room that has a title which you find distasteful.

1 Aug 2007

Quote by naughtynymphos1
i never understand this subject if you have unprotected sex why do you feel the need so lie about it? or if you do feel what you have written is true then why have unprotected sex? just seems a bit like double standards when people that i know damn well dont use condoms look down their noses at other!!!

Hypocrisy in action, NN - that's what it is.

1 Aug 2007

Quote by Chaotic_Spirit
A lot of people get into a routine, for example when you were a child and you nicked from the cookie jar.
Because you weren’t caught out as what some people haven’t been without using condoms, they become a bit bolder and do it again. The more they notice their getting away with it the more likely they are to do it.
Maybe we should stop being polite with people. Instead of just saying 'no I don't want to play with you.' simply because you've seen them having unprotected sex with someone. Let them know why. I think it will work cause then they'll realise it's no as acceptable as they thought and definitely not desirable among most swingers.
In my eyes, men or women that don't wear protection when playing with someone who isn't their partner is unbelievably selfish!
^^^ That came out like a load of bollocks, but I’m going to post it anyways

No that came out fine.
Nice to see you about again.

1 Aug 2007

Good thread Wrats. This has made me think about sex again lol and that I must get my own supply of mates for future reference and never rely on anyone else to have their own - will put on shopping list. lol

NN glad of your honesty in here. Yes I have unprotected sex for the last 16 months (was a full blown relationship with none else involved)- so what.
It not anyones business about use of condoms etc except between the couples or singles who we all consent to play with and thats how it should be. Why lie about it?????? But again lets not tar people who choose not to use them. They know the risks but you dont have go there yourself. And from now on I wont.

1 Aug 2007

I think some people who dont use them say they do as it still allows them the chance to play with those who always use them .....
Sounded better in my head but you get my drift :lol2:

1 Aug 2007

Quote by Dave__Notts
I remember a thread like this in the past.
Someone put up that as well as men wearing condoms for penetrative sex, they pointed out that sti's can be passed by oral sex. So is the issue here that you want to pass the message on that all sexual activity should be with the use of a condom and femidom for both penetrative sex and oral sex........or just penetrative sex and worn by the man.
Just being nosey as I remembered someone talking about all the sti's that can be passed on by oral sex. So should a femidom be used by women and a condom by a man for oral sex in your view or is that not unbelievably selfish or have a total disregard for their safety and the safety of others.
We use condoms for penetrative sex but not oral. Something that we may have to think about.
Dave_Notts

There is a place in the US that provide surgical gloves for their guests. For their protection and peace of mind when having sex. Is that going to far?

1 Aug 2007

Quote by
I remember a thread like this in the past.
Someone put up that as well as men wearing condoms for penetrative sex, they pointed out that sti's can be passed by oral sex. So is the issue here that you want to pass the message on that all sexual activity should be with the use of a condom and femidom for both penetrative sex and oral sex........or just penetrative sex and worn by the man.
Just being nosey as I remembered someone talking about all the sti's that can be passed on by oral sex. So should a femidom be used by women and a condom by a man for oral sex in your view or is that not unbelievably selfish or have a total disregard for their safety and the safety of others.
We use condoms for penetrative sex but not oral. Something that we may have to think about.
Dave_Notts

There is a place in the US that provide surgical gloves for their guests. For their protection and peace of mind when having sex. Is that going to far?
No I love surgical gloves lol

:lol: :lol: I would be soooo happy :lol: :lol:

1 Aug 2007

Quote by Corrie2007
I remember a thread like this in the past.
Someone put up that as well as men wearing condoms for penetrative sex, they pointed out that sti's can be passed by oral sex. So is the issue here that you want to pass the message on that all sexual activity should be with the use of a condom and femidom for both penetrative sex and oral sex........or just penetrative sex and worn by the man.
Just being nosey as I remembered someone talking about all the sti's that can be passed on by oral sex. So should a femidom be used by women and a condom by a man for oral sex in your view or is that not unbelievably selfish or have a total disregard for their safety and the safety of others.
We use condoms for penetrative sex but not oral. Something that we may have to think about.
Dave_Notts

There is a place in the US that provide surgical gloves for their guests. For their protection and peace of mind when having sex. Is that going to far?
No I love surgical gloves lol

:lol: :lol: I would be soooo happy :lol: :lol:
Good, I always have a pair or two on hand.

1 Aug 2007

On the wider issue of condom conduct, do couples who play MMF have both guys use condoms while playing (even if in their everyday sex lives the couple don't use them)?
when mr 04 and i have sex as a cpl (i.e. just us ) we dont use condoms, but when we play he ALWAYS uses them as does any other male involved, but i wonder how many dont play that way. better safe than sorry in our house.

1 Aug 2007

Quote by welshcpl2004
On the wider issue of condom conduct, do couples who play MMF have both guys use condoms while playing (even if in their everyday sex lives the couple don't use them)?

If we have another male join us and Tony is also playing then to be fair to the guy, Tony will wear a condom also.
We always use condoms when swinging and up to very recent a condom on the guy before i give him oral, The last guy we met, i didn't for the oral part of it ( did the rest ) but after reading this thread i might revise that part again also now.
However, we would like to get to know someone very very well so we could indulge play without protection but would need to get to know them very very well first.
You say even this is risky.. and we agree, and thats why for this one, were being careful.
Just out of curiosity, what happens if your single and looking for a partner, when you find one, would you use a condom for the rest of your life with them because of the risks nowdays?
Shaz x

1 Aug 2007

interesting replies, time for me and rose to sit back and take a good look at our lifestyle, lots of things for us to think about even
though we thought we had it reasonably sussed before I started this thread, we have chatted lots since this started trying to wiegh up odds and so on, looking at our last twelve months and seeing the risks we have taken..now we have to look to the future, our future regarding who with and how we play.... and if. we understand there are risks in all walks of life, we can play completely safe, we have in the past, now we need to resolve the issue of if we go back to that way is it going to satisfy us or is it just not worth it? I've never valued my life as much as since I met rose, I don't want it to be thrown away on the back of a fun night on our bed with an extra friend or two and taking one of the lower risks we currently take then being unlucky!
saying that we have had some fantastic fun in the past , so right now I dunno.
maybe it will turn out to be a wake up call for us as much as anyone else, maybe it always was.
to be continued lOl
staggy
xx

1 Aug 2007

I think a thread like this needed every few months just to remind people that the risks still exist.
Our stance on this is; as we are softswingers we don't do penetrative sex, if we meet new people at a club we are touching only. If we meet people and can chat with them and weight them up then we do oral if they seem "sensible", but for the men its condoms even for that, with the female then we don't use a dam, so that is our "risk"
With people who are long term close friends the condoms are not used, again that is our "risk".
We recognise that we are not totally safe but we have balanced the risk against the fun we have and settled on that.
John & Shel

1 Aug 2007

Quote by Geordiecpl2001
We recognise that we are not totally safe but we have balanced the risk against the fun we have and settled on that.
John & Shel

I honestly think that is the only thing we can all do. If we are doing any kind of playing, we are all taking some form of risk however small we may think it is, and trying to balance the risks and being as sensible as possible is the only way.

1 Aug 2007

we have long term friends, but we still use condom's for pen, as said above we are just trying to cut down the risk.
sex with multible partners is never safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 Aug 2007

Quote by wild rose and the stag
interesting replies, time for me and rose to sit back and take a good look at our lifestyle, lots of things for us to think about even
though we thought we had it reasonably sussed before I started this thread, we have chatted lots since this started trying to wiegh up odds and so on, looking at our last twelve months and seeing the risks we have taken..now we have to look to the future, our future regarding who with and how we play.... and if. we understand there are risks in all walks of life, we can play completely safe, we have in the past, now we need to resolve the issue of if we go back to that way is it going to satisfy us or is it just not worth it? I've never valued my life as much as since I met rose, I don't want it to be thrown away on the back of a fun night on our bed with an extra friend or two and taking one of the lower risks we currently take then being unlucky!
saying that we have had some fantastic fun in the past , so right now I dunno.
maybe it will turn out to be a wake up call for us as much as anyone else, maybe it always was.
to be continued lOl
staggy
xx

i do understand what you are saying but the simple fact of the matter is noone who is having sex is 100% risk free, people can protect themselves the best they can but accidents happen where condoms split, come off etc and not all std's are actually passed thro penatrive sex, we just have to do what we feel is best for us and hope its enough, as adults we know the risks we take the question is are you willing to take them?

1 Aug 2007

Quote by Mallock2006
I think some people who dont use them say they do as it still allows them the chance to play with those who always use them .....
Sounded better in my head but you get my drift :lol2:

i think you have hit the nail on the head there m8, at least if your honest about what you do people can have a real choice of who they meet, i may admit to not always using condoms, and by that i dont mean i will meet and shag anyone unprotected i am selective about who i have unprotected sex with, my body my choice, but i give you a real view of my life so you can make a real choice of if you want to meet unlike the ones who do the same as me yet call others for it so couples, singles who dont meet people who dont always use condoms will agree to meet them based on the lies they tell, based on that whos really in the wrong? honesty is always the best way if you dont want people knowing you have unprotected sex either dont do it!!

1 Aug 2007

we have always been aware of the bullshit factor, trouble is we have allowed that to go under the carpet, you,nn , know how we have played, we have chatted with you and mr nn in the past, especially about our profile, remember the wet on wet rule, now gone I think, as it gave us too much grief, it doesn't mean to say it wasn't invoked though, trouble was it wasn't always invoked and that's where we have to do the thinking, same room sex is safe, if that's all it is, we have done that many times and had a blast, its been done in a fun and constructive way to make it an experince worthy of full on folk wanting to come back for more.
then we moved on, without going into too much detail we are still talking soft swing but that in itself is risk taking,that's where we have to make decisions, I appreciate your honesty nn more than most,and fully respect your ways...
we will set a level, things may not change, we will certainly be taking stock of everything, we don't play with many folk as it is, not hands on
anyway..

1 Aug 2007

Quote by wild rose and the stag
maybe it will turn out to be a wake up call for us as much as anyone else, maybe it always was.

Well that's made it worth the thread then, hasn't it?
(and no, I'm not being sarcastic)

1 Aug 2007

it was always goingto be worth the thread, if things didnt matter to me and were just for other peoples sake i wouldnt be as passionate about the topic, to be honest until we started reading the likes of davenotts post and the various sexual health items on here we felt quite comfortable about what we do, / did. not sure wether we are still in present tense there now lol

so as the thread grows and we think more on the subject then we start to analise our own play, it wasnt intended that way, i tend to type and think at the same time, shoot from the hip if you like, nothing is ever pre planned, we move with the insite we gain, we feel we have gained some insite this last couple of days with our habits and those around us, still to decide on where that takes us but since my last post on here we have got a clearer picture of the way we intend to swing in the future,
my initial reason for this thread was to get folk to sit up and think about what they do, never to pour scorn, just take stock, i know for a fact some of you have, that in our opinion made the thread worthwile if nothing else.
geordie couple summed it up for us, and we agree a thread of this nature should pop up more often as a gentle reminder to all of the game they play, chaotic sprout said, and we agree, you can get swept along with your actions without a care for the consequenses and a reminder or wake up call can do you the world of good. We had got swept along , not very far but along non the less, naughyt nymphos honesty was refreshing, but not unusal in her case, she told us what we already knew, folk talk the talk on here but for a lot its just bullshit, i think mallock went in that direction too, with his so they can get more shags, or words to that effect, well we dont do that, we try to be honest and open with all, if that means sharing with the room our personal concerns as we have here instead of keeping it to ourselves then so be it, it may help others to think things through, that cant be a bad thing.
Safe sex is way more important to us than anything else, we will draw our line in the sand and i dare say be damned for it by some, its happened before, because we will let people know where the line is exactly , once again honesty, at a cost, however there will be those with similar feelings , maybe they will be attracted to us , so it will have its rewards..
its about me and rose at the end of the day, people who come into our lives as playmates will be very important to us but, it will still be all about me and rose at the end of the day.
staggy
xx

1 Aug 2007

Quote by wild rose and the stag
once again honesty, at a cost
staggy
xx

the alternative cost is soo much higher though dont you think ?
brilliant thread, have just pointed someone else to read it
I was happy in my little bubble that I wasnt taking risks ... however this has made me rethink some things too
for that I thank you staggy !

1 Aug 2007

Quote by horneyoldtart
brilliant thread, have just pointed someone else to read it

That's my cue to chip in I guess biggrin

Lots of wise words said already, so I'll not go over and over things that have been already said.
There's an element of risk in everything, and it's for everyone to decide their own levels. Part of the problem is that it's very hard to tell exactly how risky a particular activity is. I've have my limits - protected sex for penetration, unprotected for oral - but getting hard facts about how much risk this actuall entails seems impossible. I know unprotected oral sex with a stranger has a risk level, but is it as risky as crossing the road, or as risky as crossing the M25 blindfold?
I like the existence of the bareback room. Some people enjoy risk taking, that's their decision. I don't climb mountians, skydive or have unprotected sex, but if you want to, that's up to you. I'd rather people were honest that they were looking for bareback sex when arranging meets so I can avoid them rather than casually dropping 'by the way we don't use condoms' into the conversation once things have got to the clothes-off stage!
One thing not mentioned so far that really does annoy me is when people take my insistence on wearing a condom as some kind of insult.
Quite a few times in the jacuzzi in a certain club I've been in a position where I've said 'I'll just pop to the locker room for a condom' and the woman concerned has stormed off in a huff. It's one thing to decide to take risks, it's quite another to assume I'm willing to take it too.
Am I right to feel indignant about this?

2 Aug 2007

In a sexual setting:
Should'nt it be everyones right to take those risks they feel comfortable with?
Not to mention everyones right to protect themselves in whatever way they see fit?
Surely if those of us who do protect ourselves continue to do so at every given opportunity, no matter what others we may meet do, surely the risk falls totally on them? After all, if we are protected and are happy to be so, what risk are we really at?
Its very simple, if you dont like an activity, dont take part in a way that puts you at risk.
I've seen this debate time after time after time and it all boils down to the same thing.....
Protect yourself, you have nothing to worry about, if you insist on protection of whatever form, how are you at risk?

2 Aug 2007

Quote by Geordiecpl2001
....
With people who are long term close friends the condoms are not used, again that is our "risk".
We recognise that we are not totally safe but we have balanced the risk against the fun we have and settled on that.
John & Shel

If someone plays within a relationship without a condom then the risk is between the two, what one has the other gets.
If everyone plays without protection with everyone, look out, it is only a matter of time before everything become endemic.
Play safe. You do not know where they have been.