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Fair membership costs? - Paying members & Free non-payin

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Quote by samson63
I have to agree with Aurora, and I didnt even look at her pictures, what I wanna know is how come there are free members on here from 2008????? I first joined in 2006 and had to pay - have I missed something ??? x x x It does seem unfair to up the prices for the paying members to subsidise the non paying ones - sorry flower I know you are a freebie, but heh !! x x x

I think you may mean me? dunno I know it looks like that from my forum avatar and details, but check my profile, I joined in Sept 2003, so well before the cut off for "free" membership. Not sure why it's different on my forum details, maybe first date I posted in the forum, not sure :dunno: Hope that clears up your query?
I did mean you Samson, as I only saw what was on your aviatar sad !!!! Thanks for clearing it up !!!
Quote by Aurora_female

so i hope SH listen to me and gary aswell as the disgruntled paying members smile

But we are in the wrong here apparently......
No not at all essex wink It is the site in the wrong for not treating it's members fairly, yes free membership is all well and good but when things inflate and others have to pay for it ....
You don't have to pay for it..... ;-)
Quote by space_cowboy
Its a tricky one I guess.
We too know people that have the FREE accounts but from what I gather, this is because this is how they signed up originally. There is probably a legal reason that these people cannot be charged if they joined under a 'free membership' agreement.
Have got to say that our membership is due to run out soon and we're seriously going to have to consider whether we pay the higher price or switch sites. We prefer SH and having used a couple of others, this is by far the easiest and friendliest to use.
The improvements recently have been fantastic and show that the powers that be have listened to their customer and reacted accordingly. Well done to all involved.
Did think once, after reading few posts about inactive/low frequency users on site that perhaps a 'loyalty scheme' would be a nice idea. Those that use the site most and make it the success it is, should get discounted rates? Perhaps link it in with log on's, shrep feedback, forum posts etc etc.
Just an idea
We'll be sorry to have to leave but times as they are , gotta watch the pennies and if someone is doing similar for free or cheaper, its going to get a look in we're afraid.
x

I agree with the loyalty scheme thing, also maybe worth considering that couples have to also have a single profile so both can use the site at same time, couples boh should be able to log in the account in same room at same time IMO, as some couples are not able to be together all the time, n some are far apart permenantly!
Another idea rather than 'going back on their word' SH could let the free members keep their memberships but limit them to one each and then as they add new features they could be made to pay for those, so in effect they are still getting free what they did when it changed to paying but then having to pay for the added things like shrep and multi rooms and that type thing.
If we are to pay for the extra added things why shouldn't they as well, that way the choice is everyone's if the want to use and pay for them.
As things are, a lot of people are finding it hard to pay for 1 or 2 profiles and im guessing that they would rather you asked their opinions on upgraded that weren't necessary or whether it would be preferred to keep it simple and cheaper!
The couples accounts really do need to be multi logging as those of us with 3 profiles (2 singles and a couple) it would make more sense but then i guess that's how sh is making its money!
Quote by elawisp
Another idea rather than 'going back on their word' SH could let the free members keep their memberships but limit them to one each and then as they add new features they could be made to pay for those, so in effect they are still getting free what they did when it changed to paying but then having to pay for the added things like shrep and multi rooms and that type thing.

That sound good.... :thumbup:
Don't like SHrep (something they said would never happen but it has) and don't use multi-room....
So I get for free what I get for free now :-)
i dont use shrep
i do use multi room occupancy though but i used that in old chat although i dont know if it was there when i first joined SH cvus i never used the chat rooms then smile
Quote by elawisp
Another idea rather than 'going back on their word' SH could let the free members keep their memberships but limit them to one each (wasnt aware we could have more then one but please if we can let us have one - would make life so much more easier lol) and then as they add new features they could be made to pay for those (we are already they are called "extras" we only get for free what the site classes as standard features for paid members so if your idea was carried out then whatever we would have to pay for i imagine would then move into the extras and then you'd have to pay more to get them?) , so in effect they are still getting free what they did when it changed to paying but then having to pay for the added things like shrep (easily abused - not really useful for what its ment for) and multi rooms (an absoulute pain and a waste of time - only serves to clog up the room and prevent proper chatting) and that type thing.
If we are to pay for the extra added things why shouldn't they as well (again we do they are in the extras package - everything else is in the standard package) , that way the choice is everyone's if the want to use and pay for them.
As things are, a lot of people are finding it hard to pay for 1 or 2 profiles and im guessing that they would rather you asked their opinions on upgraded that weren't necessary or whether it would be preferred to keep it simple and cheaper! (the percentage of free members to paying members would probably make very little difference to the overall cost)
The couples accounts really do need to be multi logging as those of us with 3 profiles (2 singles and a couple) it would make more sense but then i guess that's how sh is making its money! (fully agree on this bit!)
Quote by HugsnKisses
Do you honestly think your payments will go down if I have to start paying? Get real lol
I joined a free site(this one), in 2005. You chose to join it after then and pay for it, nobody forced you.
If they suddenly make the free sites you are a member of into paying sites but offer you it free because you are already a member you wouldn't offer to pay would you?
Ok it isn't fair, but hey ho life isn't fair what can you do really?

I joined a free site(this one), in 2005. You chose to join it after then and pay for it, nobody forced you.

:thumbup:
The simple fact is that SH is being funded by only 72% of the members.
When we signed up we weren't aware that our fees were paying for such a large number of free members to use the site.
Whilst we accept that SH feel that they have to honour a promise to keep the site free for those members who joined prior to the end of 2005, we feel that SH would be keeping that promise. Since 2005 SH has made plenty on new innovations to its site. Surely these should be outside the promise, and therefore those free members should be asked to pay if they want to use those features, such as the new and improved chat.
Quote by elawisp
Another idea rather than 'going back on their word' SH could let the free members keep their memberships but limit them to one each and then as they add new features they could be made to pay for those, so in effect they are still getting free what they did when it changed to paying but then having to pay for the added things like shrep and multi rooms and that type thing.
If we are to pay for the extra added things why shouldn't they as well, that way the choice is everyone's if the want to use and pay for them.
As things are, a lot of people are finding it hard to pay for 1 or 2 profiles and im guessing that they would rather you asked their opinions on upgraded that weren't necessary or whether it would be preferred to keep it simple and cheaper!
The couples accounts really do need to be multi logging as those of us with 3 profiles (2 singles and a couple) it would make more sense but then i guess that's how sh is making its money!

Dont think that would work. You could end up in a situation where all the bits cost more than a membership lol
Quote by domino_2
The simple fact is that SH is being funded by only 72% of the members.

Can I challege your 'fact' ?
345000 members joined SH before Symbios took over.
1250000 (ish) membership now.
Therefore yes I agree you are looking at around a 28 - 72 % split.
However you make the wrong assumption that every single account that was registered since the take over was not a 'basic, can't do anything, but is free' account, and was in fact a paying account.
Correcting this will reduce your percentage quite dramatically.
Quote by domino_2
The simple fact is that SH is being funded by only 72% of the members.
When we signed up we weren't aware that our fees were paying for such a large number of free members to use the site.
Whilst we accept that SH feel that they have to honour a promise to keep the site free for those members who joined prior to the end of 2005, we feel that SH would be keeping that promise. Since 2005 SH has made plenty on new innovations to its site. Surely these should be outside the promise, and therefore those free members should be asked to pay if they want to use those features, such as the new and improved chat.

they have improved bits of the site - yes... but bear in mind that the chat, forums, profiles and adverts were all part of the original site and covered by the agreement, they are the core of the site and so would have been improved whether the site stayed free or not.
So the bits that would be taken away would be the video gallery, photo gallery, events section, comments section, stories section and the dreaded shrep... is it worth taking them away or even adding them to the "extras" package?
have used this analogy on here earlier in the thread but if you have a mortgage at 2% and you manage to fix it for life, then 3 months later the rates rise to 10% should you be forced to pay the extra 8% or do people just say well done you were lucky there...
when you joined the site you said you knew there were free members just not how many there were, so you made a free choice, and i think should have asked the question at the time if it bothered you so much.
admin on here have said that they are sticking by the promise so it's now a case really of put up and shut up, or leave and go to one of the free sites and hope they get taken over, and you are in the right place at the right time if they promise never to charge the original members.
If all the free members left tonight, the site would still have all the features you pay for.
I still maintain the price would not go down now matter how many people pay because this is a profit making business ,if a million people join tonight they price will not go down either.
When I first joined as a paying memeber I didn`t throw a wobbly when I found out that there were free members, if they had free membership in legacy then fair play to them, I still paid my subs and even had extras.
The way I look at it is that this is a "leisure activity" it is not vital so like others have said you pay your money and you take your choice, I was rather lucky and inherited (so to speak) a free profile from my partner, however I would still of continued paying if this hadn`t happened.
Theres another thread running about the cost of clubs, and lets face it you probably pay a membership fee for most clubs, plus a fee on the night, taxi, baby sitter, hotel room, drinks, new outfit etc, all for a few hours of fun once or twice a month if you`re lucky, for much less you can be on here 24/7 365 days of the year if you wanted to and for less than you`d spend on a night out.
People do leave but most come back, what does that tell you?
The reason pre sale members have free membership is because the site founder, Mark, recognised the fact that the site members up to that point were the people responsible for the bricks and mortar of the site. Although the site was started to provide himself and others a place to meet and arrange swinging activities (remember those? wink ) and he put in the hard work with setting it up, paying for the hosting and bodging code, we were the providers of the content that attracted enough new members to attract the interest of the current owners. Without that input this thread would not exist, so look at it as out payment for services rendered.
Quote by domino_2
When we signed up we weren't aware that our fees were paying for such a large number of free members to use the site.
Whilst we accept that SH feel that they have to honour a promise to keep the site free for those members who joined prior to the end of 2005, we feel that SH would be keeping that promise. Since 2005 SH has made plenty on new innovations to its site. Surely these should be outside the promise, and therefore those free members should be asked to pay if they want to use those features, such as the new and improved chat.

The main problem with your idea is that to stick to the agreement the current owners would either have to keep the old server system running, in parallel and perfectly integrated with the current server system, or they would have to code any changes in such a way that us spongers and scroungers only had access to certain features at a certain speed, neither of which i can see as commercially viable dunno
Quote by meat2pleaseu
snip.. Although the site was started to provide himself and others a place to meet and arrange swinging activities (remember those? wink )
end snip

yeah i remember when folk swung here.. was so easy cos the only people here were for the most part swingers.. would like to see a chatroom with out cams ..
hi meaty dude
rose n staggy
As a paying member, I am happy to subsidise others less well off than our selves wink
There are the givers of this world and then there are the takers
Quote by Bluefish2009
As a paying member, I am happy to subsidise others less well off than our selves wink

I think you'll find us free members are better off. To the tune of about £70 a year :wink:
*Her*
ive been reading thru the posts and have noticed that the most verbal peeps are the freebies,as i see it the price increase is putting alot of payer off rejoining so at some [point in time if there arnt that many payers left then the site will either have to charge the freebies or shut down.i agree that the costs should be spread evenly,swinging is about sharing after all. x
Quote by couplefunuk
As a paying member, I am happy to subsidise others less well off than our selves wink

I think you'll find us free members are better off. To the tune of about £70 a year :wink:
*Her*
lol
I too have read many of the posts, and most importantly, Aurora's original post.
I can see her points and do accept them. I can also apreciate the points raised by the majority, who are supporting the minority. However as a free member, I only find myself in this position through no fault or choosing of my own. Though I could arguably cancel my membership and rejoin as a payer, that's a no brainer, especially as I'm quite unsuccessful here, unlike others who no doubt do get value for their money.
I don't set the rules of the game, I simply have to play by them, and in this case I have free membership.
In closing I too have enjoyed viewing Aurora's pictures, especially the black and whites, and the bondage and candle pics. Aurora you look just dreamy.
Firstly let me say..I am a free member.
thing is the site needs to keep membership numbers high....so as to attract new members. This is a commercial site after all. If they asked for a fee off old members, I think you would see a severe reduction in the numbers.
Can i suggest a compromise solution. Why not ask the old, free members for a one off £50 charge..and for that offer free lifetime membership. I think most of us old members would see that as good value and fair. The site could also potentially gain a large slice of income !! Just an idea.
Quote by domino_2
The simple fact is that SH is being funded by only 72% of the members.
When we signed up we weren't aware that our fees were paying for such a large number of free members to use the site.
Whilst we accept that SH feel that they have to honour a promise to keep the site free for those members who joined prior to the end of 2005, we feel that SH would be keeping that promise. Since 2005 SH has made plenty on new innovations to its site. Surely these should be outside the promise, and therefore those free members should be asked to pay if they want to use those features, such as the new and improved chat.

Yeah.....Give us back the old mIRC chat room that was available to use for free and you can stick the "new improved chat" where the sun don't shine :-)
Those of us that remember the old chat will have been here quite some time (December 2003 myself) and helped build the site in our own small way into a commercialy viable propostition and Mark recognised this and made provisions in the terms of sale when the current owners purchased it....
Quote by domino_2
The simple fact is that SH is being funded by only 72% of the members.
When we signed up we weren't aware that our fees were paying for such a large number of free members to use the site.

Except it's not a simple fact, and no you're not. You're assuming that the headline figure of 345000 free users represents actual, chargeable individuals, and that it's even remotely accurate. It doesn't, and it's not.
What that figure represents is the number of email addresses registered across the site by the time admin introduced the unified login. Prior to that, you had to register a login for each seperate area of the site, forum, chatroom and ads. If a user registered one ad under one email address, a second ad under another email address, a chatroom login under a third email address, and a forum login under a fourth that one user was counted four times. Quite common that, what with users coming and going, forgetting passwords, flouncing off the site, re-registering under a new username with a new email address, deliberately running multiple accounts, yadda yadda ya . . . Then you've got any number of users who once read about Stan Collymore in the Sun and so posted a one-line ad with a picture of their cock, never to be seen again. ;)
The 345000 figure then in no way reflects the number of actual, individual users who would otherwise be chargeable if SH suddenly decided to revoke their free memberships, and we've not even started on what fraction of that fraction are still even actively using the site? If SH had a cull of profiles whose owners hadn't logged in for a year, I suspect you'd find that the number of still active free users as a percentage of the total current active membership would be vanishingly small. I'm pretty sure it would be in the very low single figures at most.
N x x x ;)
i don't think there are many examples of where a group of people have a unanimous set of criteria. most groups function on a scale of relative values. so following this idea seems to have an unlikely outcome.
perhaps this free membership is precisely why sh is seen to be a leading site on the net. to undermine that quality seems self destructive.
Anyone who doesn't like the status quo should raise a ticket to the people who can actually change things. If not willing to do that - this thread becomes a free-member bashing/defending thread. Which is unpleasant at best.
I am a free member, I'm neither proud nor embarrassed about that. It is mostly irrelavent to everyone else but me and the site owners. It has no effect on my feelings expressed above. I also feel no need to justify it. It's just the way it is. dunno
Quote by couplefunuk
As a paying member, I am happy to subsidise others less well off than our selves wink

I think you'll find us free members are better off. To the tune of about £70 a year :wink:
*Her*
:thumbup: :giveup:
Quote by flower411
Maybe nobody really gives a shit ! dunno

Well obviously people to give a shit, otherwise this thread wouldn't be on its 5th page.
I have deliberately not posted in my thread for a while now due to it becoming what foxylady has quite rightly called it a "free-member bashing/defending" thread but also because it has become a paying member "f*ck off if you don't like it" thread.
If people read my initial post it was for debate, information and thoughts not an "us/them" bitch fight.
I have kept quite on this due to the above but also because if you look on page 3, steve did post saying that the trial of £70 for basic premium membership will now not come in to effect but will now be £50 (minus a penny wink ).
As I have always been aware of free members, I accept this, what I did not accept was the site putting near on £25 on top of our membership fees to pay for the improvements that we all use. Yes, it can be argued that the free members got chat free anyway but we did not ask for the improvement either and lots were happy with the old chat.
My arguement therefore is not that I have to pay and some don't, I pay for my membership and have accepted that but I don't expect to have to pay for all improvements that we didn't ask for either and that we all use.
£50 I accept as a normal price rise and yes compared to some sights it is value for money, I don't feel like I am paying for the servers for everyone now. (Ok so we are in a way, but it won't be as hard to swallow in drips lol).
But I will still stand by my arguement again if they change something and want to load that on to the paying members in one blow.
Free members are here and yes some are aware that they exist, others are not, the site will stand by its agreement but no one can possibly think it is right that we pay for something we did not ask for also. This was never about being a free/paying member, but when it comes down to an "all singing, all dancing" then we should all share that cost.
Yes the site has greatly improved and I actually feel for the better on usage (lots will disagree) but from £45 up to £70 was a joke to me and a bitter pill to swallow.
I don't care what some of you say it costs per day etc... maybe you can afford that, I don't know, but I couldn't for basic membership.
So, all I will say now before i shut up is; The site listened to a point and I can afford to stay for another year, after that who knows .....