revelation 6 pretty much sums up the one time we played with a single guy.... but hey ho..
aint happy bout this thread and its links to be honest but there ya go free speech thoughts and shit like that being posted //tough call ...
Sex God
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Master of Sex
always liked your posts wrats,and i can understand why you find this thread disconcerting,but it seems to me that none of the links are untrue,or advocate harm to anyone,so maybe just making people more aware is reason enough to keep the debate going
Sex God
its not for me to say if a thread should continue or not. of course.
but im sure i or anyone else for that matter could post some links to sites that could be deemed as honest as the ones above that are pretty damned nasty .. thats all.
todays truths are tomorrows lies..
but im sure i or anyone else for that matter could post some links to sites that could be deemed as honest as the ones above that are pretty damned nasty .. thats all.
todays truths are tomorrows lies..
Quote by wild rose and the stag
its not for me to say if a thread should continue or not. of course.
but im sure i or anyone else for that matter could post some links to sites that could be deemed as honest as the ones above that are pretty damned nasty .. thats all.
todays truths are tomorrows lies..
I have learnt loads about Yusuf now . thankyou wrats.
Sex God
well i hope you liked what you learned ..then some good will come of this thread..
Quote by swcpl2005
I've got no problem with Fitna (watched it quite some time ago on and I've got no issue with allowing Geert Wilders into the country to defend his film which joins together clips already in the public domain. He didn't make it, it was made by the actions of those who justify their behaviour in the name of the Islam religion.
This country needs an open and honest debate by all sides regarding the threat posed by militant Islamists living here and the way Islam is set up to be beyond criticism in any way, shape or form and this would have been as good as time as any to start it. The actions of our cowardly and appeasing Government raise doubt in my mind as to why they will not engage in a genuine debate with the public and instead come out on the attack against those who want to initiate the debate.
How can our useless Home Secretary claim the presence of Wilders in this country would endanger public security when the only threat to our security had come from Labour Lord Achmed who had promised to send 10,000 Muslim protestors to storm the House of Lords when the film was originally scheduled to be shown and so got it banned and was totally allowed to get away with this threat.
Policital minnow and grinning idiot David Milliband couldn't resist joining in either - "A hate-filled film designed to stir up religious and racial hatred in this country is contrary to our laws,". Yes Fitna is hate-filled and that hate is aimed in a rather uncomfortable and inconvenient one-way direction Mr Milliband. Let's see a disection of Fitna to show us which bits are not true and then I will make my mind up.
I'm surprised nobody has picked up on the music that accompanies Fitna either, it's Edward Grieg's rather appropriately titled Death.
Very well said, and thanks for identifying the music, which was lovely - the only lovely thing in a catalogue of horrors!
What really terrified us about the film were the comments of the little girl... how can a free society cope with such indoctrination?
Sexlightened
Quote by westman
JTS - interesting. last time i checked the last massacre on european soil were bosnian muslims being butchered for their faith - hmmm. Please JTS - dont let the facte get in the way of your prejudices
This is a different issue from free speech etc, Bosnians and for that matter all the rest of Serbia's neighbours and internal dissidents were being butchered by communist Slobadan Milosovic's thugs. The reason for inaction was the United Nations imposing a hopelessly limited mandate on its peacekeepers using force - what else is new - it was the same story in Rwanda, mostly due to dictatorships such as China and Russia blocking effective action.
This has been twisted by moslem propagandists to make out that westerners are against Arabs etc
"The day of judgment will not arrive until Muslims fight Jews, and Muslim will kill Jews until the Jew hides behind a tree or a stone. Then the tree and the stone will say, 'Oh Muslim, oh, servant of God, this is a Jew behind me. Come and kill him.' Except one type of a tree, which is a Jew tree. That will not say that."
Oh.....Soz...revelations..
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth"
It just seemed to run parallel with current religions way of thinking...
Quote by JTS
"The day of judgment will not arrive until Muslims fight Jews, and Muslim will kill Jews until the Jew hides behind a tree or a stone. Then the tree and the stone will say, 'Oh Muslim, oh, servant of God, this is a Jew behind me. Come and kill him.' Except one type of a tree, which is a Jew tree. That will not say that."
Oh.....Soz...revelations..
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth"
It just seemed to run parallel with current religions way of thinking...
May I ask....are you of any relgoius faith yourself?
Please do not feel obliged to reply, I am just being nosy!!!!
Let me see......no.
Can you wonder why ?
Can you wonder why ?
109:2 I do not worship what you worship, and you do not worship what I worship. I will never worship what you worship, and you will never worship what I worship. You to your religion, me to my religion.
9:5 When the sacred months are passed, kill the kafirs wherever you find them. Take them as captives, besiege them, and lie in wait for them with every kind of ambush. If they submit to Islam, observe prayer, and pay the poor tax, then let them go their way. Allah is gracious and merciful.
Sex God
Quote by Silk and Big G
There are limits on freedom of speech?
There are when what he has to say would quite probably consitute incitement to religious hatred, which leaves the government looking very silly indeed when they have to ban someone from entering the country because they might otherwise be faced with the prospect of arresting, charging and prosecuting the guy under their own dubious legislation. Didn't think it through when they passed that one, did they? ;)
Anyways, there's a massive irony here. Presumably Geert Wilders will claim that his right to free speech is being trampled on, and we're appeasing book burners, yet here is a man who wants to come into this country and argue for the banning / censorship of a bloody book. Now where have we heard that one before?
If he's intent on conflating Muslims with Nazis, he might want to have a little think about where exactly his ideas fit in with them? 
;)Neil x x x ;)
Interesting use of words by rioandantonty
concerning the massacre of bosnian muslism (why does rio not use the word muslims), by serbian christians (again rio uses the word communists instead of christians, funny that?)
"This has been twisted by moslem propagandists to make out that westerners are against Arabs etc
Twisted? Hmm. So a group of europeans get massacred on the basis on their religion - and the "arabs" twisted it. Well, i am european and i dont need to "twist" to point out this sordid episode in recent european history
concerning the massacre of bosnian muslism (why does rio not use the word muslims), by serbian christians (again rio uses the word communists instead of christians, funny that?)
"This has been twisted by moslem propagandists to make out that westerners are against Arabs etc
Twisted? Hmm. So a group of europeans get massacred on the basis on their religion - and the "arabs" twisted it. Well, i am european and i dont need to "twist" to point out this sordid episode in recent european history
Sexlightened
Interesting use of words by rioandantonty
concerning the massacre of bosnian muslism (why does rio not use the word muslims), by serbian christians (again rio uses the word communists instead of christians, funny that?)
"This has been twisted by moslem propagandists to make out that westerners are against Arabs etc
Twisted? Hmm. So a group of europeans get massacred on the basis on their religion - and the "arabs" twisted it. Well, i am european and i dont need to "twist" to point out this sordid episode in recent european history[/quote
Arguments over grammer won't wash !
The Serbian leader was also the head of the Communist Party, and yes, the Serbian paramilitaries did get backing from the Christian Orthodox Church, they were'nt just slaughtering moslems, but also people of other ethnic groups in the neighbouring ex Yugoslavian countries.
I stand by the fact that islamic propagandists have twisted inaction by the UN over this to falsely claim that the west is against all Arabs,Pakistanis etc
By the way, I'm not on the "side" of christians,moslems,jews, hindus or any other religeon - I'm an athiest and its plainly obvious the world would be a better place without them...if of course these religeous tyrants deign to leave us a world worth habiting !
concerning the massacre of bosnian muslism (why does rio not use the word muslims), by serbian christians (again rio uses the word communists instead of christians, funny that?)
"This has been twisted by moslem propagandists to make out that westerners are against Arabs etc
Twisted? Hmm. So a group of europeans get massacred on the basis on their religion - and the "arabs" twisted it. Well, i am european and i dont need to "twist" to point out this sordid episode in recent european history[/quote
Arguments over grammer won't wash !
The Serbian leader was also the head of the Communist Party, and yes, the Serbian paramilitaries did get backing from the Christian Orthodox Church, they were'nt just slaughtering moslems, but also people of other ethnic groups in the neighbouring ex Yugoslavian countries.
I stand by the fact that islamic propagandists have twisted inaction by the UN over this to falsely claim that the west is against all Arabs,Pakistanis etc
By the way, I'm not on the "side" of christians,moslems,jews, hindus or any other religeon - I'm an athiest and its plainly obvious the world would be a better place without them...if of course these religeous tyrants deign to leave us a world worth habiting !
So let’s get this straight. The British government allows people to march through British streets screaming support for Hamas, it allows Hizb ut Tahrir to recruit on campus for the jihad against Britain and the west, it takes no action against a Muslim peer who threatens mass intimidation of Parliament, but it bans from the country a member of parliament of a European democracy who wishes to address the British Parliament on the threat to life and liberty in the west from religious fascism
We do not agree with freedom of speech because we denounce democracy
If my mother or sister have sex then I will kill them too
The "film" is constructed from real events, and real comments by real people.
If you wish to make a "film" about other religiously-inspired events then I will watch that as well.
Meanwhile, carry-on: I like a good disagreement !
Sex God
do you know what...I've decided that wilders should have been allowed into the country... but then you can't have any complaints when these people are also allowed in...
Buju Banton... he wasn't allowed in since some of his song contains homophobic lyrics, and talked about killing gay lyrics...
Louis Farrakhan.... head of the nation of islam... he wasn't allowed in as he has various statements about judaism and has been at various times accused of being antisemitic, racist and homophobic
Yusuf al-Qaradawi's ..... he was the muslim cleric banned from coming into britain, he wasn't coming here to speak, he was coming in for medical treatment, jewish groups consider him to antisemitic for his views on suicide bombers, gay groups for his homophobic speeches.....
in the last case it was our beloved leader of the opposition leading that called for him to be banned from entry for being "dangerous and divisive"
and the Home Office said his visa was refused on the grounds that he could pose a threat to community cohesion.
I am glad they did, but where were all of the "freedom of speech" people then????????
in fact I could bring up various other people that have been refused... holocaust deniers for example... and yet no one ever brings it up.. till now!!!
found this great article.... have a read, it brings a more balanced side to the arguements...
i did agree with here on this bit
"Coming to the UK is a privilege and I refuse to extend that privilege to individuals who abuse our standards and values to undermine our way of life,"
Buju Banton... he wasn't allowed in since some of his song contains homophobic lyrics, and talked about killing gay lyrics...
Louis Farrakhan.... head of the nation of islam... he wasn't allowed in as he has various statements about judaism and has been at various times accused of being antisemitic, racist and homophobic
Yusuf al-Qaradawi's ..... he was the muslim cleric banned from coming into britain, he wasn't coming here to speak, he was coming in for medical treatment, jewish groups consider him to antisemitic for his views on suicide bombers, gay groups for his homophobic speeches.....
in the last case it was our beloved leader of the opposition leading that called for him to be banned from entry for being "dangerous and divisive"
and the Home Office said his visa was refused on the grounds that he could pose a threat to community cohesion.
I am glad they did, but where were all of the "freedom of speech" people then????????
in fact I could bring up various other people that have been refused... holocaust deniers for example... and yet no one ever brings it up.. till now!!!
found this great article.... have a read, it brings a more balanced side to the arguements...
i did agree with here on this bit
"Coming to the UK is a privilege and I refuse to extend that privilege to individuals who abuse our standards and values to undermine our way of life,"
Quote by annejohn
Here are a whole load more "out-of-context" phrases then.....
what a disgusting book
I would think so too IF if I had only this site as a refernce. The site is clearly anti-muslim, full of mis-translations, verses quoted out of context and outright lies. Its no different to the murderering so-called muslims using these same verses, out of context, to kill muslims and non-muslims alike. Sites like these are the opposite side of the coin to Jihadist sites
Master of Sex
then please put them into context for us sexyguy,and point out the lies,always looking to be better informed here.
Continuation:
53 needs a moment's more thought. It tells the devout Muslim that there can have been no innocent victims anyway (even those who professed to be Muslim but took their pay packets from the Great Satan), because Allah would have delivered them by making them late for work that day.
From Sura 27:
48: And there were in the city nine individuals, who worked corruption in the land and did not set things right....
50. They schemed a scheme and We schemed a scheme, while they were unaware.
51. See then what was the outcome of their scheming: We destroyed them together with all their people.
52. Their houses are in ruin, on account of their wrongdoing. There is a sign for a people who know.
53. And we delivered those who believed and were God-fearing.
53 needs a moment's more thought. It tells the devout Muslim that there can have been no innocent victims anyway (even those who professed to be Muslim but took their pay packets from the Great Satan), because Allah would have delivered them by making them late for work that day.
Quote by Riotandantony
concerning the massacre of bosnian muslism (why does rio not use the word muslims),
I was taught to call followers of this faith 'mohammedans' at school. We had several at ours, and none objected. Now it's very non-PC to use that word, apparently they don't like it as it implies they worship Mohammed. But Buddhists don't worship the Buddha, and are happy to be called that name.
Why do we have to keep on changing our language to accommodate 'new arrivals' here? Let's reclaim our language - they are mohammedans, and should be addressed as such!
Sexlightened
One other point I'd like to make is the glaringly obvious one for a swing site; why on earth do people on this site who presumably enjoy swinging apologise for, or even support islam ? under sharia law, they, and everyone else on the site, along with gays,lesbians and fornicators would be executed.
On another note, whilst everyone seems to be going on about various websites, I'd like to mention one of my favourates, it is for moslems who wish to discuss sexuality and features articles from both modern libertarian minded people from moslem countries, and some very nasty hatemail from islamic fundamentalists, best of all it has photos of some very lovely moslem ladies whom I'd dearly love to give a severe tongue lashing for their impertinence ! the add is ;
Enjoy !
On another note, whilst everyone seems to be going on about various websites, I'd like to mention one of my favourates, it is for moslems who wish to discuss sexuality and features articles from both modern libertarian minded people from moslem countries, and some very nasty hatemail from islamic fundamentalists, best of all it has photos of some very lovely moslem ladies whom I'd dearly love to give a severe tongue lashing for their impertinence ! the add is ;
Enjoy !
Sex God
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
There are limits on freedom of speech?
There are when what he has to say would quite probably consitute incitement to religious hatred, which leaves the government looking very silly indeed when they have to ban someone from entering the country because they might otherwise be faced with the prospect of arresting, charging and prosecuting the guy under their own dubious legislation. Didn't think it through when they passed that one, did they? ;)
Anyways, there's a massive irony here. Presumably Geert Wilders will claim that his right to free speech is being trampled on, and we're appeasing book burners, yet here is a man who wants to come into this country and argue for the banning / censorship of a bloody book. Now where have we heard that one before?
If he's intent on conflating Muslims with Nazis, he might want to have a little think about where exactly his ideas fit in with them? ;)Neil x x x ;)
Thats not freedom of speech that is law. The whole point of freedom of speech is that we have it..............then if it breaks the law it leads to prosecution. This isnt protecting freedom of speech it is censorship.
Incidentally Wilders isnt condemning Moslems he is condemning Islam as an ideology, his comparison with Nazism is not meant to suggest that they have similar aims or objectives. It is merely to say that both of the systems are all encompassing and dictate to every aspect of a persons life whilst denying ALL other points of view. It is his contention that because the Koran and Islam advocate total dismissal of all other viewpoints then it is not a religion but more an ideology , in a similar way that Nazism is (or hopefully was). Religion should enhance a persons life not become their whole ideology and control it.
Sex God
No, I was being a bit facetious Silk and Big G, and I wasn't aiming at you directly, even with the quote. ;) It's highly unlikely that he would have said anything that actually fouls fall of the law anyways, cos the bar has been set so high as to make the law completely redundant. We already have laws that forbid incitement to violence, so calls to behead those who insult the prohet for example are pretty much covered already, or should be, though we do seem a bit lax at times when it comes to actually enforcing them. ;)
I agree with you that the absolute right to free speech should be sacrosanct in a democracy, but the government have made a bit of a rod for their own back by continually tinkering around at the edges of those freedoms. I'm just glad they didn't manage to pass the law they actually wanted, cos then any criticism of Islam or Muslims whatsoever would quite probably have become absolutely illegal. As it is, they've left a bit of a grey area so that when Geert Wilders says something like "There is a battle going on and we have to defend ourselves" I know he is talking about a battle of ideas ((( or so I hope! ))) but taken out of context, it is open to another interpretation. Seems the government have now become a bit fearful about testing the limits of the laws they themselves pushed through, as much as they are fearful what the reaction among a small minority of Muslims would have been had we let him in.
Neil x x x ;)
I agree with you that the absolute right to free speech should be sacrosanct in a democracy, but the government have made a bit of a rod for their own back by continually tinkering around at the edges of those freedoms. I'm just glad they didn't manage to pass the law they actually wanted, cos then any criticism of Islam or Muslims whatsoever would quite probably have become absolutely illegal. As it is, they've left a bit of a grey area so that when Geert Wilders says something like "There is a battle going on and we have to defend ourselves" I know he is talking about a battle of ideas ((( or so I hope! ))) but taken out of context, it is open to another interpretation. Seems the government have now become a bit fearful about testing the limits of the laws they themselves pushed through, as much as they are fearful what the reaction among a small minority of Muslims would have been had we let him in.
Neil x x x ;)
Well.
It looks like the exclusion was actually ILLEGAL.
Expect an appeal against the decision.
Since he was here only a month ago, and the "film" was out then........mind you, a lord of the realm who is a muslim had not threatened to besiege the house/s with tens of thousands of protesters then.....although I'm sure that had nothing to do with the outright cowardice of the government (which I have come to expect anyway...in all things....but especially religion and finance)
It looks like the exclusion was actually ILLEGAL.
Expect an appeal against the decision.
Since he was here only a month ago, and the "film" was out then........mind you, a lord of the realm who is a muslim had not threatened to besiege the house/s with tens of thousands of protesters then.....although I'm sure that had nothing to do with the outright cowardice of the government (which I have come to expect anyway...in all things....but especially religion and finance)
Quote by annejohn
then please put them into context for us sexyguy,and point out the lies,always looking to be better informed here.
I'd be more than happy to try but I'd need a few specifics and if your quoting from the verses of the Quran then be prepares for some long and possibly boring theological asnwers! :-)
Quote by Peakcouple
concerning the massacre of bosnian muslism (why does rio not use the word muslims),
I was taught to call followers of this faith 'mohammedans' at school. We had several at ours, and none objected. Now it's very non-PC to use that word, apparently they don't like it as it implies they worship Mohammed. But Buddhists don't worship the Buddha, and are happy to be called that name.
Why do we have to keep on changing our language to accommodate 'new arrivals' here? Let's reclaim our language - they are mohammedans, and should be addressed as such!
Colonial and early-post colonial education reflects the attitude of the times. If Muslims want to be called Muslims then whats the big deal? Its like Black people in the USA preferring the label African American to describe themselves when during the civil rights campaigns of the 60's and early 70's they used to refer to themselves as Negros (as did much of the world). The first and only time I heard a Muslim call himself a Mohammedan was in India and I didn't understand till an Indian told me he meant Muslim...may be it was the accent!! However I dont know of ANY Muslims who be offended if so,eone called them Mohammedan, I think its just fallen out of use. Oh and by new arrivals do you mean those Muslims who were born and raised here? because as their parents are concerned most were too busy earning a crust and putting down roots rather than get involved in politics!
Well.
If you want to do racism properly, you need to go abroad. They do it seriously "there".
I'm amazed the bnp (et-al) do not do better.
Personally, I feel that "reverse racism" is not a vote winner for anyone.
Suppressing free speech (whatever that means)(and it seems to mean a lot of different things depending on your religion and ethnic origin) because of a not-so-vague threat of riot is just giving-in to the "my race/religion/colour/size/width is better than you/rs mob.
In any case, the ban has done a lot more harm than good...the film has been seen by more people than it would otherwise have been, and seen to be NOT what the "banners" said it was.
ie: they lied.
Nothing new there then.
If you want to do racism properly, you need to go abroad. They do it seriously "there".
I'm amazed the bnp (et-al) do not do better.
Personally, I feel that "reverse racism" is not a vote winner for anyone.
Suppressing free speech (whatever that means)(and it seems to mean a lot of different things depending on your religion and ethnic origin) because of a not-so-vague threat of riot is just giving-in to the "my race/religion/colour/size/width is better than you/rs mob.
In any case, the ban has done a lot more harm than good...the film has been seen by more people than it would otherwise have been, and seen to be NOT what the "banners" said it was.
ie: they lied.
Nothing new there then.
Interesting point - if you are in favour of free speech in this country - then you should be lobbying to repeal the incitement to racial hatred act. Arguments about free speech are fine - its we dont have it in the UK. If anyone makes a speech inciting hatred against a racial minority in this country - they will get banned
interestingly, jews and sikhs - though they could be considered relgions - are considered races for the purposes of the Act - because effectively in the act's eyes - all jews are of semitic origin and all sikhs are of punjabi origin. Thus effectively for the purposes of the law , they are considered races. Muslims (and buddhists) because they are multi-racial religions are not protected under the act. Thus you can say things about muslims and bhuddists that would be illegal if said about jews/sikhs/hindus - which is of course why the BNP make all sorts of comments about muslims which they couldnt make about asians/pakistanis/indians/black people
interestingly, jews and sikhs - though they could be considered relgions - are considered races for the purposes of the Act - because effectively in the act's eyes - all jews are of semitic origin and all sikhs are of punjabi origin. Thus effectively for the purposes of the law , they are considered races. Muslims (and buddhists) because they are multi-racial religions are not protected under the act. Thus you can say things about muslims and bhuddists that would be illegal if said about jews/sikhs/hindus - which is of course why the BNP make all sorts of comments about muslims which they couldnt make about asians/pakistanis/indians/black people
