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Fox Hunting poll Yeah or nah?
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Do you agree with Fox hunting?
Sex God
You missed on option on this one as well - couldn't give a flying F**K.
By taking the whole debate seriously and argueing the rights and wrongs you are doing exactly what the government wants you to do - not debating much more important issues.
Congratulations to you all for being Tony's sheep.
By taking the whole debate seriously and argueing the rights and wrongs you are doing exactly what the government wants you to do - not debating much more important issues.
Congratulations to you all for being Tony's sheep.
Quote by rogerthedragon
You missed on option on this one as well - couldn't give a flying F**K.
By taking the whole debate seriously and argueing the rights and wrongs you are doing exactly what the government wants you to do - not debating much more important issues.
Congratulations to you all for being Tony's sheep.
I guess you have to be close to this one to recognise what a huge issue it is. My family have lived the rural life for generations, the outcome of this will have repurcussions on the country way of life. The people should decide what is or isn`t important to them, the interest in this issue speaks for itself I feel.
That said, although I am aware of the repurcussions, I am not in favour of this sport.
Venusxxx
Sex God
Just out of interest where did I state I was not 'close' to this issue?
It is not that I do not think rural issues are important, just that I think there are a lot more important ones such as - The closing of Rural Post offices, Schools, Banks etc. The excessive use of pesticides. GM Crops. Poor public transport. Excessive house prices due to people buying second homes. etc. etc.
I think fox-hunting has become the only countryside issue at the moment and takes much needed attention away from rural issues that have a lot more impact on peoples everyday lives.
Roger.
It is not that I do not think rural issues are important, just that I think there are a lot more important ones such as - The closing of Rural Post offices, Schools, Banks etc. The excessive use of pesticides. GM Crops. Poor public transport. Excessive house prices due to people buying second homes. etc. etc.
I think fox-hunting has become the only countryside issue at the moment and takes much needed attention away from rural issues that have a lot more impact on peoples everyday lives.
Roger.
Quote by rogerthedragon
You missed on option on this one as well - couldn't give a flying F**K.
It was this comment which gave me the impression. I apologise if this is not the case.
The other issues you cite are all worthy of attention. They should allbe confronted, including Foxhunting.
Venusxxx
have to admit i voted to ban it
seem it first hand and it s
awfull...
plus the horse riders come chargeing through property and dont give a dam on the damage they cause
some of them though have suggested chaseing a decoy ..you know imprinted with the scent for the dogs
but i think most like the thrill of the live chase and the kill at the end
dont see the point myself
a lot of buisness is generated by the hunt near me so i think if its banned they should come up with some humain way of allowing the hunters to carry on with their hobby
seem it first hand and it s
awfull...
plus the horse riders come chargeing through property and dont give a dam on the damage they cause
some of them though have suggested chaseing a decoy ..you know imprinted with the scent for the dogs
but i think most like the thrill of the live chase and the kill at the end
dont see the point myself
a lot of buisness is generated by the hunt near me so i think if its banned they should come up with some humain way of allowing the hunters to carry on with their hobby
Sex God
Quote by VenusnMars
You missed on option on this one as well - couldn't give a flying F**K.
It was this comment which gave me the impression. I apologise if this is not the case.
The other issues you cite are all worthy of attention. They should allbe confronted, including Foxhunting.
Venusxxx
I do realise the impression that statement gave and chose it deliberately. It illustrates an interesting point though, by saying that I don't really care about fox-hunting one way or the other, the automatic assumption is I must be townie with no connection to rural affairs. This is the point I am trying to illustrate, fox-hunting is overshadowing many other more important rural issues.
And yes there is no reason fox-hunting should not be debated as part of a wide ranging discussion of rural issues, however the government do not want to debate the other issues because they would actually have to do something to improve things.
Roger.
Sex God
By taking the whole debate seriously and argueing the rights and wrongs you are doing exactly what the government wants you to do - not debating much more important issues.
Congratulations to you all for being Tony's sheep.
this is probably better done on the original thread, but calling me a sheep cos i take a moral stance on the whole issue is a touch offensive roger!
It is not that I do not think rural issues are important, just that I think there are a lot more important ones such as - The closing of Rural Post offices, Schools, Banks etc. The excessive use of pesticides. GM Crops. Poor public transport. Excessive house prices due to people buying second homes. etc. etc.
I think fox-hunting has become the only countryside issue at the moment and takes much needed attention away from rural issues that have a lot more impact on peoples everyday lives.
possibly because both sides of the argument have politicised the fox-hunting debate and turned into into some town vs country, class war thing. it's not.
And yes there is no reason fox-hunting should not be debated as part of a wide ranging discussion of rural issues, however the government do not want to debate the other issues because they would actually have to do something to improve things.
i think you'll find the innercities have massive issues that need to be addressed too, and little enough is being done there either. does that mean for once we ignore a moral debate? i think not.
that's all i'm saying here. theres the other thread to continue this.
neil x x x ;-)
Actually it hadn`t occured to me to assume whether you were a `townie` or not. Just that you `didn`t give a flying f**k`.
It wasn`t something I pondered on, but perhaps I was guilty for assuming that you are not touched by this issue because you are not involved in rural affairs enough to care. In my experianceallissues regarding the country way of life are important to those who live the life, and many who don`t.
But since you already admitted to deliberately leading people to that conclusion by the choice of your remark, I shan`t be beating myself over the head with it!
I prefer straight forward debates.
Venusxxx
It wasn`t something I pondered on, but perhaps I was guilty for assuming that you are not touched by this issue because you are not involved in rural affairs enough to care. In my experianceallissues regarding the country way of life are important to those who live the life, and many who don`t.
But since you already admitted to deliberately leading people to that conclusion by the choice of your remark, I shan`t be beating myself over the head with it!
I prefer straight forward debates.
Venusxxx
Roger
I think the government issue may run deeper. The fox hunting debate always seem to be raised when the government want other issues to be masked and not come to public attention. This goverment in particular is skilled at 'sneaking' bills thru on the back of others with 'late amendments'. Those of you who were contractors 4 years ago will remember how IR35 was rushed thru at a late hour when no-one hardly was about to contest it.
Issues which bring heated debate and, if possible, public demonstrations are handy tools which can be used as a smoke screen and to detract from other unpopular issues and bills.
Ahhhhh - the fox hunting issue itself - I am torn. I know there has to be some control over foxes, but I cannot condone the breeding by man of one animal specifically to hunt down, terrify and tear limb from limb another member of the animal kingdom in the name of sport.
Regarding loss of livelihood and the talk of havig to have the dogs put down, I do feel for these people, but this has been on the cards for some years now - perhaps it could be deemed irresponsible of these people to continue to breed the dogs, knowing what the future was to hold. Maybe they should have looked into diversification before now to protect their future income instead of the head in the sand approach.
I think the government issue may run deeper. The fox hunting debate always seem to be raised when the government want other issues to be masked and not come to public attention. This goverment in particular is skilled at 'sneaking' bills thru on the back of others with 'late amendments'. Those of you who were contractors 4 years ago will remember how IR35 was rushed thru at a late hour when no-one hardly was about to contest it.
Issues which bring heated debate and, if possible, public demonstrations are handy tools which can be used as a smoke screen and to detract from other unpopular issues and bills.
Ahhhhh - the fox hunting issue itself - I am torn. I know there has to be some control over foxes, but I cannot condone the breeding by man of one animal specifically to hunt down, terrify and tear limb from limb another member of the animal kingdom in the name of sport.
Regarding loss of livelihood and the talk of havig to have the dogs put down, I do feel for these people, but this has been on the cards for some years now - perhaps it could be deemed irresponsible of these people to continue to breed the dogs, knowing what the future was to hold. Maybe they should have looked into diversification before now to protect their future income instead of the head in the sand approach.
answer really is quite easy......do you like seeing toffee nosed sect, dressed up to the nines in there gear, running amock around the countryside, damageing fields and hedges, just so that a pack of hounds can then tear a fox to bits for everyones enjoyment.....
Lets get a few things straight.....I don't mind people getting dressed up and ifs its there own land or have permission they can damage what they want. But just so that they can glory in the tearing apart of a fox....not for me thanks.
the fox can be a real pest in the countryside and i have no quarm with the culling of there numbers in others ways. It is the gloryification of that death that i don't approve of.
also before they stat on about us townies not understanding.....lets firstly remember that the hunt is not open to anyone to join in....it is a very select group.....secondly whenever a law is passed about town living, do you here us saying country folk should not have a say...ofcause not.
and the reason it is being debated and past into law, is because it was a promise in there manifesto. people complain when governments don't keep there promises, so maybe we should celebrate that this one has.
in conclusion I feel that the death of an animal should not in any way be glorified.
Lets get a few things straight.....I don't mind people getting dressed up and ifs its there own land or have permission they can damage what they want. But just so that they can glory in the tearing apart of a fox....not for me thanks.
the fox can be a real pest in the countryside and i have no quarm with the culling of there numbers in others ways. It is the gloryification of that death that i don't approve of.
also before they stat on about us townies not understanding.....lets firstly remember that the hunt is not open to anyone to join in....it is a very select group.....secondly whenever a law is passed about town living, do you here us saying country folk should not have a say...ofcause not.
and the reason it is being debated and past into law, is because it was a promise in there manifesto. people complain when governments don't keep there promises, so maybe we should celebrate that this one has.
in conclusion I feel that the death of an animal should not in any way be glorified.
Quote by deancannock
lets firstly remember that the hunt is not open to anyone to join in....it is a very select group.....
That's not really true. Whilst the senior riders are, in some hunts, the 'landed gentry' the social and age range of those involved is often quite broad, not forgetting that there are many other people directly or indirectly employed through the activities of the hunt.
joj jon....you ever tried being part of a hunt.......they are very select about who they let in. basically if you have family in...then fine.....but other than that you have to have a very big bank balance so as to contribute to the hunt...then once again welcomed with open arms.....but as for anyone else you got more chance of joining the masons than the Hunt
Quote by musketeer
WRONG QUESTION
The point is not whether you agree with it or not, the question is, because you don't like it and don't want to do it yourself, is this a good enough reason to ban it?
I don't hunt, and I don't want to hunt, but I wish to preserve the rights of those who do.
same argument i do believe was used when people banned burning the sacrifical virgin at the stake each summer. Its not the hunting we want to ban...its the glorification of the death.
Quote by deancannock
answer really is quite easy......do you like seeing toffee nosed sect, dressed up to the nines in there gear, running amock around the countryside, damageing fields and hedges
Anyone who can ride can follow a hunt, lots of people do, and the hunt goes where it has permission to go. The problem with your post is that it's so clear that you see it as a means to get at those you see as toffee nosed, and surely that's not a good basis for law making. (Even though it's exactly what happened in the Commons yesterday).
Sex God
i'll revise what i said ^^^^ up there.
yes roger, it's a convenient agenda, cos whenever any bill is passed, it gives the impression that something is being done somewhere. anything at all, so long as it's seen to be done.
yes Alex goverment is always very sneaky when it comes to stalling bills they don't want to implement, and sneaking in things they do, on the back of other legislation while noone's looking. and politicising the fox-hunting debate is a very useful distraction from other issues, town or country, because it is such an emotive issue. least we're not debating Iraq this week are we?
but what is essentially a moral question on hunting now has all kinds of other baggage riding with it because of that. that is the problem with our process. the agenda is set by those with the power to have an agenda. not us. that is not to say when the opportunity arises to make our feelings on their agenda known, we should ignore it. we have to take what we can from what little democratic process we have, until such time as we have a better one.
musketeer, there are many things i wouldn't want to do. others seem to like it. fortunately they are banned from doing so cos there's a moral issue at stake?
neil x x x ;-)
yes roger, it's a convenient agenda, cos whenever any bill is passed, it gives the impression that something is being done somewhere. anything at all, so long as it's seen to be done.
yes Alex goverment is always very sneaky when it comes to stalling bills they don't want to implement, and sneaking in things they do, on the back of other legislation while noone's looking. and politicising the fox-hunting debate is a very useful distraction from other issues, town or country, because it is such an emotive issue. least we're not debating Iraq this week are we?
but what is essentially a moral question on hunting now has all kinds of other baggage riding with it because of that. that is the problem with our process. the agenda is set by those with the power to have an agenda. not us. that is not to say when the opportunity arises to make our feelings on their agenda known, we should ignore it. we have to take what we can from what little democratic process we have, until such time as we have a better one.
musketeer, there are many things i wouldn't want to do. others seem to like it. fortunately they are banned from doing so cos there's a moral issue at stake?
neil x x x ;-)
answer really is quite easy......do you like seeing toffee nosed sect, dressed up to the nines in there gear, running amock around the countryside, damageing fields and hedges, just so that a pack of hounds can then tear a fox to bits for everyones enjoyment....]
musketeer...seems to have missed that last line out of my quote....wonder why !!!!!!!
musketeer...seems to have missed that last line out of my quote....wonder why !!!!!!!
Quote by deancannock
answer really is quite easy......do you like seeing toffee nosed sect, dressed up to the nines in there gear, running amock around the countryside, damageing fields and hedges, just so that a pack of hounds can then tear a fox to bits for everyones enjoyment....]
musketeer...seems to have missed that last line out of my quote....wonder why !!!!!!!
I edited out the bit that didn't interest me. Had you limited your argument to that line it would have been very valid, but I wanted to include you venting your bile against what you perceive to be the "toffee nosed" to show the true source of your opposition. For you it's not about the fox it's about "them and us", otherwise you would not have expressed yourself as you did.
Quote by neilinleeds
musketeer, there are many things i wouldn't want to do. others seem to like it. fortunately they are banned from doing so cos there's a moral issue at stake?
Neil I'm not absolutely sure what you mean, but I think my answer is as follows:
There is a good argument that says, just because there are lots of other bad things there's no excuse for not doing something about this bad thing.
It would be a hard one to refute if it weren't for the fact that there are so many other awful and immoral things being done to food animals about which nobody in Government is the slightest bit interested, and because the law is selective on the kind of hunting to which it applies, and because the general fox population will be disadvantaged by the change. For all these reasons one is left with the very distasteful thought that the fox is the last thing anyone politicising this is interested in. This law has a different agenda.
Quote by Clare_Lincs
I admit i havent read the thread so in my view how on earth can killing innocent animals so cruely be allowed???If it was cute little puppy dogs or kittens there would be outcry!
BAN IT AND BAN IT FOR GOOD!
Clare you must be a vegetarian, and if you are I commend your position. If, on the other hand you eat meat, your argument doesn't stand up. Also, since you mention it, in what sense do you regard the fox, THE slaughterer of innocents in the countryside, as innocent?
Quote by musketeer
Had you limited your argument to that line it would have been very valid, but I wanted to include you venting your bile against what you perceive to be the "toffee nosed" to show the true source of your opposition. For you it's not about the fox it's about "them and us", otherwise you would not have expressed yourself as you did.
Well said. If the debate turns into 'class war' there isn't the remotest chance of it being addressed in a manner that succesfully deals with the issues of animal cruelty, or otherwise.
I'm reasonably certain that the hunt riders I have known socially since I was a child were not welcomed into the hunt on the basis of social standing or vast wealth, unless, in the case of one family, there's a previously unknown cachet in being the children of a greengrocer ?
If foxhunts are so destructive of property, why were there so many farmers on the Countryside March ? Why do they welcome the hunt back onto their land year on year ?
Ok yes i do eat meat,but when animals are slaughtered for food then generally it is a painful death and they are not torn limb from limb by a pack of hungry dogs.
Yes foxes do slaughter their prey,but is that not nature?
You can't stop the food chain and you can't just blame foxes for that either.
Just ask yourself this,Would you like to be torn limb from limb by a pack of dogs???
No i didnt think so.
Yes foxes do slaughter their prey,but is that not nature?
You can't stop the food chain and you can't just blame foxes for that either.
Just ask yourself this,Would you like to be torn limb from limb by a pack of dogs???
No i didnt think so.
Sex God
If farmers feel the need to kill foxes to protect their stock, fine, they can trap them or shoot them, but chasing about the countryside all day wearing silly costumes to terrorise one fox isn't exactly making a dent in the fox population, and yet they invariably cite culling as a justification. It's not a cull, it's a sport, done purely for its own sake.
We criticise India for its bear baiting, Mexico for its dog fighting, Spain for its bullfighting, and we weep when see pictures like those in yesterday's papers of the puppy used as a football. To object to such cruelty by others while retaining the right to practice it ourselves in the name of tradition is obviously hypocritical, but having said that, I don't approve of banning it. There are far more important things for Parliament to concern itself with right now, and the hunting issue looks suspiciously like an attempt to divert our attention from more urgent matters, as well as being yet another demonstration of Labour's desire to regulate every aspect of people's lives.
Personally I think people who hunt foxes for fun need their heads examined, but I would rather the resources of law and order be devoted to things like catching the bastards who robbed me on wednesday, than persecuting motorists and inbred idiots on horseback.
Ice
We criticise India for its bear baiting, Mexico for its dog fighting, Spain for its bullfighting, and we weep when see pictures like those in yesterday's papers of the puppy used as a football. To object to such cruelty by others while retaining the right to practice it ourselves in the name of tradition is obviously hypocritical, but having said that, I don't approve of banning it. There are far more important things for Parliament to concern itself with right now, and the hunting issue looks suspiciously like an attempt to divert our attention from more urgent matters, as well as being yet another demonstration of Labour's desire to regulate every aspect of people's lives.
Personally I think people who hunt foxes for fun need their heads examined, but I would rather the resources of law and order be devoted to things like catching the bastards who robbed me on wednesday, than persecuting motorists and inbred idiots on horseback.
Ice
Sex God
The point is not whether you agree with it or not, the question is, because you don't like it and don't want to do it yourself, is this a good enough reason to ban it?
I don't hunt, and I don't want to hunt, but I wish to preserve the rights of those who do.
i could follow that very same logic, and take the argument to it's absolute extreme, and say therefore is ok, cos clearly some people like it and think it's ok? and i expect to be castigated saying that. sometimes you do things cos it's morally right, regardless if it impinges on certain people. i don't want to sell smack to kids either, but some do? do we ban them? do we take a moral stance and say "this is wrong"? i think so.
Clare you must be a vegetarian, and if you are I commend your position. If, on the other hand you eat meat, your argument doesn't stand up. Also, since you mention it, in what sense do you regard the fox, THE slaughterer of innocents in the countryside, as innocent?
the fox is innocent cos it has no other option than to follow instinct! it does not think like we do. innocence or guilt requires self-awareness and morals? i doubt a fox really hast them does it?
and yes i eat meat, i also don't like the way the meat industry is run. the political influence i apply there is trying as best i can to buy organic. but i can't always afford it so i'm a total hypocrite i guess? doesn't mean i have to accept hunting just cos i can't change farming does it?
neil x x x ;-)
