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freebies for doctors

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A new concern about freebies offered to doctors by the drug (I can't spell pharmaceutical this early) companies is making news today. There is a report published next week. These perks can range from a free biro to a slap up meal and even holidays.
The drugs comnpanies are not allowed to advertsise directly to medics so they see this as an inducement to get GP's to order their product.
I am pretty sure that most professionals will take the gifts (within reason) but not let that sway their judgement on which drugs they should prescribe to their patients.
Do you think this is a problem that needs addressing or bona-fide marketing promotion by the pharms.?
Steve
i think the whole thing about people who pay into the NHS via their taxes and NI contributions then have to pay for their perscribed medication anyway.
i know through friends that we have two surgeries in the town i live , go to one with depression for instance and you tend to get a script for a certain med, and the other tends to typically script another.
there are the trade names that are known to all and some gps script those, and then others who give out the cheeper alternatives.
if its on a script and we all pay the same price for that why should we have the cheeper one?
who pays for the actual meds? is the aditional cost passed onto the government?
in that case do the government chase up the gp who keeps scribing the more expensive meds?
sorry im rambling
i dont think the gps should get holidays, meals (as bribes) etc, its not like they are actually selling the drugs, the tax payer is footing the cost i would presume?
xx fem xx
Don't agree with it at all, won't go into too much detail as I'll find myself climbing upon my soap box.
Why should Doctors receive "gifts" in order to place orders with certain companies - surely they should just be doing their job and ordering the medication that's needed at the best possible price, afterall that's what they get paid to do and should not be swayed by the offer of anything.
Unfortunately corruption is rife in all walks of life confused
The media has decided to pick on doctors at the moment, but it's everywhere.. From the banks still paying themselves millions of pounds in bonuses, when by the looks of it, they haven't even earned their overpaid wage, let alone a bonus. Right down to the farmers that are forced by supermarkets to buy overpriced packaging for their fruit/veg, because the supermarkets get a cut of it all.
I'm blessed to have the best doctor in the world, someone who often goes beyond his duties and works all hours, he's borderline hero in my eyes for what he does. If the drug works and my doc gets a holiday out of using it then, considering all the other massive corruptions that goes on, it's fine by me. Dunno when he would have time to take the holiday, cos he always seems to be doing doctor stuff, maybe he's just a free bottle of wine doc lol
Not sure, but aren't doctors restricted to a very tight budget? Surely if the price of the drug is too expensive for the budget, they wouldn't be able to use that brand, whatever the freebie is?? I don't know dunno
Isn't there a breast cancer drug that a lot of districts can't use cos of the price - even if they offered free holidays to all?? Or the flip side of that coin I suppose could be that they can't afford the drug cos they're spending too much on other drugs with free holidays??? Morally I can't see that happening, mind you, as I said I have an excellent doc, so a tad blinkered :?
But as I mentioned at the start, corruption is everywhere in corporate life. Legally of course, but still hits hardest on the people at the bottom of the manufacturing chain, or the final price to the buyer sad
come to wales lol free perscriptions to all here at the moment not sure if it will last or whether it is just this the welsh asembly incentive to keep voting them in
Quote by Missy
Unfortunately corruption is rife in all walks of life confused
sad

tell that to the corruptable
Quote by Kazsc
A new concern about freebies offered to doctors by the drug (I can't spell pharmaceutical this early) companies is making news today.
Steve

This is nothing new.....a pratice near to me had a mass protest over 20yrs ago about the same thing.
It concerned a doctor receiving a new car in exchange for a lucrative order for a particular brand of prescription medicine to the one already on offer.
Quote by wild rose and the stag
Unfortunately corruption is rife in all walks of life confused
sad

tell that to the corruptable
Sorry, I don't understand what you're telling me to do, tell the corruptable that corruption is rife?? :confused:
So we have had " cash for honours ", and now we have " drugs for gifts ".
Sorry but cannot see a difference between either. One is outlawed and the other is not but.....they should both be illegal.
For GP'S to benefit in a financial way, for agreeing to give their drugs to patients is immoral, and giving how much the GP's get already, is a smack in the face to all the patients that walk through their surgery doors..... greedy buggers.
Haven't NICE got something to do with the allocation of medicines?
the problem is not companies promoting thier product.
It is the overiding profit motive.
and where does 'honours' relate to pharmaceuticals?
(rhetorical... I really don't care)
lp
Quote by __random_orbit__
Haven't NICE got something to do with the allocation of medicines?
the problem is not companies promoting thier product.
It is the overiding profit motive.
and where does 'honours' relate to pharmaceuticals?
(rhetorical... I really don't care)
lp

Seems you do or you would not have commented. wink
Quote by kentswingers777
Haven't NICE got something to do with the allocation of medicines?
the problem is not companies promoting thier product.
It is the overiding profit motive.
and where does 'honours' relate to pharmaceuticals?
(rhetorical... I really don't care)
lp

Seems you do or you would not have commented. wink
nope... not interested in the answer... I don't see one.
hence: rhetorical.
Quote by kentswingers777
So we have had " cash for honours ", and now we have " drugs for gifts ".
Sorry but cannot see a difference between either. One is outlawed and the other is not but.....they should both be illegal.
For GP'S to benefit in a financial way, for agreeing to give their drugs to patients is immoral, and giving how much the GP's get already, is a smack in the face to all the patients that walk through their surgery doors..... greedy buggers.

I'm sure that the majority of GP's, even if they accept gifts from drug companies, do not prescribe those company's drugs unnecessarily. If a patient requires a generic item and the GP prescribes a particular version because it has been pushed to the front of his mind with the incentives he/she has received, where's the harm? So long as the patient received the treatment they require, I see no problem with which named drug they get. Obviously I would prefer to think the most economical course of treatment would be employed but can understand that all drug companies want to make money from their research and manufacture.
I live near a certain drugs manufacturer that employs a lot of the local population in it's research and development and manufacturing departments. They were responsible for discovering a particularly favourable treatment for a sensitive problem and as a result had the sole licence for it's production for 10 years. In that time the site grew and more people were employed. The drug in question has just come off licence and the company are laying off manufacturing staff in favour of R and D staff to try and find the next 'best thing'. I'm sure that they would prefer that GP's continue to prescribe their particular brand of treatment so that they can maintain their workforce and status in their industry. I am not surprised that they give GP's pens, mugs and post-it note pads to keep their name in the game and their product fresh in peoples' minds.
Quote by kentswingers777
So we have had " cash for honours ", and now we have " drugs for gifts ".
Sorry but cannot see a difference between either. One is outlawed and the other is not but.....they should both be illegal.
For GP'S to benefit in a financial way, for agreeing to give their drugs to patients is immoral, and giving how much the GP's get already, is a smack in the face to all the patients that walk through their surgery doors..... greedy buggers.

Surely you have to realise this goes on in all walks of life?
I used to work in recruitment. Certain compenies we recruited for paid a higher percentage of the salary as a fee.
Now, as a consultant, I would know that and I would know that I had a monthly target to make (of which I got a percentage as commission.) So, when I had a candidate in front of me, what would I do: recommend the client company that made my company (and therefore me) more money or recommend the client company that was perhaps more suited to the candidate in question?
dunno
Now, I'm not saying which I did or which I believe is more ethically 'right'... I'm just saying that 'freebies' or 'perks' come in all sorts of guises and in all sorts of industries. Mind you, "drugs for gifts" has that certain tabloid headline-esque ring to it doesn't it?! wink
A junior doctor earns a starting salary of £21 391, working 48 or 48 to 56 hours a week.
This does not include the continual study and learning that then goes on in spare time, and the exams, presentations c ase studies etc that have to be done.
It doesn't think about the fact that they can only choose to work in an area of britian such as 'the north east', not a particular hospital in a particular town near their family.
My friend was told that they couldn't guarantee annual leave for his wedding, and working shifts and holidays are only given sometimes with a weeks notice of rotation.
The hours are unsociable, the shifts are tough, and peoples lives are in your hands.
You don't get a christmas bonus, you don't get a paid christmas party etc etc etc.
You have to do 5 years study min, which you are then in debt repaying, your future exams have to be paid for, you have to give up all your free time for work experience.
Yes, everyone knows this is what a doctor does, and yes, as they work up the ladder, the pay is better, the hours are better (sometimes) the holidays are better, but surely a perk here and there wouln't go amiss? they are few and far between in the NHS in my eyes.
I think that it would only be in rare instances that a doctor may be swayed by a drug rep in placing an order, and there is so much more involved in the choice of drugs that i think it highly unlikely a gp would chose on a whim.
We often have drugs reps coming in, and it is a highlight as you know they will bring cakes and nice coffee, and it really is the highlight of the year.
I know plenty of other professions where the highlights are a damn sight larger than a few cakes/pens/cups etc.
Quote by mazandden
I know plenty of other professions where the highlights are a damn sight larger than a few cakes/pens/cups etc.

The legal world is worse. rolleyes
However, it is worth noting that not everyone can be bought! wink
Personally I'd take any bribe going. It wouldn't have any effect on my decisions. biggrin:D:D:D:D
The difference of generic or brand-name drugs is cost. And the difference is not slight.
Look at simple paracetamol - I can pick it up for maybe for 16 or 16p for 16. The difference? medically - zero. Cost-wise - a totally unnecessary extra expense of nearly 9 times more than the basic.
Scale that up to more complex drugs and doctors choosing to prescribe the brand-name drug could end up depriving another patient of their treatment.
There should be no choices to make.
You prescribe the cheapest that will do the job - PERIOD.
Where we are dealing with specialist treatments, there may be only one option and that is likely to be very expensive. But the majority of conditions have a range of suppliers offering (medically) exactly the same product with different packaging, packers, sweeteners or shapes.
We can all get involved - when we are at the doctors we can ask them if they are prescribing the generic or brand-name and if it makes a medical difference.
Quote by foxylady2209
Personally I'd take any bribe going. It wouldn't have any effect on my decisions. biggrin:D:D:D:D
The difference of generic or brand-name drugs is cost. And the difference is not slight.
Look at simple paracetamol - I can pick it up for maybe for 16 or 16p for 16. The difference? medically - zero. Cost-wise - a totally unnecessary extra expense of nearly 9 times more than the basic.
Scale that up to more complex drugs and doctors choosing to prescribe the brand-name drug could end up depriving another patient of their treatment.
There should be no choices to make.
You prescribe the cheapest that will do the job - PERIOD.
Where we are dealing with specialist treatments, there may be only one option and that is likely to be very expensive. But the majority of conditions have a range of suppliers offering (medically) exactly the same product with different packaging, packers, sweeteners or shapes.
We can all get involved - when we are at the doctors we can ask them if they are prescribing the generic or brand-name and if it makes a medical difference.

hear hear!
(here here?)
lp
Quote by mazandden
A junior doctor earns a starting salary of £21 391, working 48 or 48 to 56 hours a week.
This does not include the continual study and learning that then goes on in spare time, and the exams, presentations c ase studies etc that have to be done.
It doesn't think about the fact that they can only choose to work in an area of britian such as 'the north east', not a particular hospital in a particular town near their family.
My friend was told that they couldn't guarantee annual leave for his wedding, and working shifts and holidays are only given sometimes with a weeks notice of rotation.
The hours are unsociable, the shifts are tough, and peoples lives are in your hands.
You don't get a christmas bonus, you don't get a paid christmas party etc etc etc.
You have to do 5 years study min, which you are then in debt repaying, your future exams have to be paid for, you have to give up all your free time for work experience.
Yes, everyone knows this is what a doctor does, and yes, as they work up the ladder, the pay is better, the hours are better (sometimes) the holidays are better, but surely a perk here and there wouln't go amiss? they are few and far between in the NHS in my eyes.
I think that it would only be in rare instances that a doctor may be swayed by a drug rep in placing an order, and there is so much more involved in the choice of drugs that i think it highly unlikely a gp would chose on a whim.
We often have drugs reps coming in, and it is a highlight as you know they will bring cakes and nice coffee, and it really is the highlight of the year.
I know plenty of other professions where the highlights are a damn sight larger than a few cakes/pens/cups etc.

I take your points on board but....the op was talking about " GP'S, not junior staff.
How much does the " average " GP earn? I have read in excess of a hundred grand....locums can earn much more. There are plenty of jobs out there, where somebody has done 5 years at uni and a low starting salary. But they would not get close to earning the sort of money GP'S do.
I am not knocking GP'S at all, they do a grand job but....in all tense and purposes, they are almost taking bribes to sell drugs, by receiving " freebies ". As a GP unlike a lot of jobs, their sole purpose is their patients, not to line an already bulging bank account.
It may be right and it is legal, but that does not make it morally right......or does it?
Quote by fem_4_taboo
i think the whole thing about people who pay into the NHS via their taxes and NI contributions then have to pay for their perscribed medication anyway.
i know through friends that we have two surgeries in the town i live , go to one with depression for instance and you tend to get a script for a certain med, and the other tends to typically script another.
there are the trade names that are known to all and some gps script those, and then others who give out the cheeper alternatives.
if its on a script and we all pay the same price for that why should we have the cheeper one?
who pays for the actual meds? is the aditional cost passed onto the government?
in that case do the government chase up the gp who keeps scribing the more expensive meds?
sorry im rambling
i dont think the gps should get holidays, meals (as bribes) etc, its not like they are actually selling the drugs, the tax payer is footing the cost i would presume?
xx fem xx

If you want to pay for the medication you are prescribed for example a seretide inhaler your looking at per month per inhaler.
How much id a prescription charge now ?????
in all my years working in general practice (20 ) i dont think ive met a gp who could be bribed with a pad of post it notes or a free sandwich from tesco.
And this is what is on offer and now drugs companies are in recession too.
I'm in the medical industry and the NHS has for years tried to clamp down on this, BUT many GP's and hospital Dr's enjoy many perks from companies (not just drugs of course, equipment companies are as bad). We do not let our staff give away freebies but NHS staff expect entertainment.
When a Dr has to rescribe a brug there are usually a number of options and this is the decision the reps are trying to influence. The reps themselves have a crap deal too, loads of pressure and small areas to sell into, so they will try anything (and have large budgets to spend.
I am new here so sorry if this is a bit long-winded!
Quote by Antony_william
I am new here so sorry if this is a bit long-winded!

:welcome: to the forums! lol