Global Warming - Fact or Fiction

8 Mar 2007

I just finished watching 'The Great Global Warming Scandal' on channel 4.
Now I've always been sceptical about the global warming claims, mainly because of because of my career background and also because of number of next ice age vs global warming articles I've read depending upon how hot or cold it gets year by year.
So the programme presented a pretty logical explanation for why the planet heats up and cools down over the centuries backed up by scientific data, nothing to do with human emmisions of CO2, but directly proportional to sunspot activity on the sun.
It makes sense to me, but lets discuss.

8 Mar 2007

If you've ever watched "the day after tommorow" it's quite a disturbing thought is all this global warming. Could you imagine the horrors of the ice age happening all over again???!!! :shock:

8 Mar 2007

damn.......I wanted to watch that.......I've never believed in the global warming thing as there is no proof for it.......gutted I missed this programme. sad

8 Mar 2007

Quote by jaymar
If you've ever watched "the day after tommorow" it's quite a disturbing thought is all this global warming. Could you imagine the horrors of the ice age happening all over again???!!! :shock:

8 Mar 2007

Quote by st3v3
If you've ever watched "the day after tommorow" it's quite a disturbing thought is all this global warming. Could you imagine the horrors of the ice age happening all over again???!!! :shock:

It would be nasty, but it is just fiction, it would take much for people to model the climate either way which is part of the problem.
The global warming model based on greenhouse gasses ie CO2 appears to be hype.
I know it's fiction, but it was a brilliant film to watch. Still makes you wonder tho doesn't it, in general all our seasons are backside forward! wink

8 Mar 2007

I didnt watch the programme, but I have a great big :idea: hanging over this issue - in terms of a 'what if' .
there is a hole in the ozone layer, attributed to CFC's and co2 pollutants, is there not?
and that's a huge factor in the whole global warming threat, isnt it?
i dunno, I'm not a climatologist nor do I know the ins and outs, but I do think we'd be foolish to ignore the warnings and poo poo it as a 'scandal' dunno

I'm still too haunted by the isolated polar bears on a melting glacier photo in a national newspaper recently to have an informed oppinion on this :dunno:

8 Mar 2007

I was reading an article last year about the polar ice cap . specifically the north pole .
Apparently 15 years ago you could walk to the north pole , now you have to take a ship 200 miles before you hit the ice ? :shock:
Also they said that a polar bear and her cub had been seen not 5 miles from the actual north pole . this had never been seen as there main food is seal and the ice is to thick for them to make air holes to breath dunno

They concluded that the ice must have been thin enough for the seal’s as the bear was hunting there with its cub :shock:
Bit worrying don’t you think ?

8 Mar 2007

I'm not really ok with the 'what if' argument, its not based on science or fact and a very useful tool for governments to raise money by levying tax on flights, cars etc, for un qualified environmentalists and the press to create public panic and support.
Historical scientific data, if correct as portrayed by the programme does show that CO2 has nothing to do with global warming.
CFC is a different matter, quite rightly shown by scientists to destroy the ionisphere.

8 Mar 2007

it's not an arguement St3v3, its a genuine 'what if?' concern!
there's no point me asking for references to this so-called scientific data to investigate the claims for myself, cos environmental science isnt my forte lol

, but, I do wish I'd watched the programme now dunno

is the polar ice melt and rising lea levels bollox too then? :dunno:

8 Mar 2007

Quote by Darkfire
it's not an arguement St3v3, its a genuine 'what if?' concern!
there's no point me asking for references to this so-called scientific data to investigate the claims for myself, cos environmental science isnt my forte , but, I do wish I'd watched the programme now
is the polar ice melt and rising lea levels bollox too then? :dunno:

I know that smile

as part of the programme they brought up the 'what if' argument and also showed how the polar ice caps melt and reform every year.
I found the whole thing very convincing and after seeing it I sort of got the feeling that the press will write what sells papers, the scientific community will publish papers that will get them funding, even if fundamentally flawed and extreme groups will take advantage.
So maybe we are the victims of propaganda, or maybe I've been gullable when watching this programme :dunno: but I do smell a rat.

9 Mar 2007

I heard on the radio the other day that if we all stopped breathing we could cut greenhouse gases quite a bit... confused

9 Mar 2007

Quote by Huxley Pig
Yes there is a cyclic pattern to CO2 but in the film an Inconvenient truth which should be shown on all tv channels at least once free Al Gore stands in front of a graph showing the ups and downs of carbon dioxide over the centuries. Yes, there is a cyclical pattern. Then, in recent years, the graph turns up and keeps going up, higher and higher, off the chart.

It also showed that Al Gore didn't mention that CO2 went up after the rise in temperature and went on to explain that the largest source of CO2 emmisions is the oceans of the world, which release CO2 when they get warmer and absorb it when they get cooler.

9 Mar 2007

on the *next ice-age* side of this thread...
I saw somewhere recently, and again, rather convincingly put, that this clement weather we've been enjoying for the last few millenia, is merely a warmspell in an otherwise very long, already existing ice-age...
get ya mittens folks!
lp

9 Mar 2007

I watched the first half, v. interesting and v. convincing. Only a couple of hundred years ago, the world went through a mini ice age, frozen thames and everything :shock: Yet back in the 1500s, for something like 3000 years, the temperature was higher than it is now :shock:
So convincing in fact, that it got to halfway through and I thought, well that's me convinced, no need to watch any more and I left the room rolleyes

Wish I had watched it all now, instead of wandering off to warm up a pizza, cos it was really interesting.

9 Mar 2007

Quote by Missy
Yet back in the 1500s, for something like 3000 years, the temperature was higher than it is now :shock:

Just read that back, and think I might've got a bit muddled with me timings :undecided: The 1500s was no where near 3000 years ago.....
Was thinking about pizza at the time and not concentrating properly rolleyes

Was a long time ago anyway, for a long time, or not a long time ago for a long time blink

........ well it happened anyway, no need for specifics :roll:
Think I need to watch the repeat :uhoh: Cos it was bluddy good ...... I just can't remember any details at the mo :undecided:

9 Mar 2007

Quote by st3v3
I just finished watching 'The Great Global Warming Scandal' on channel 4.
Now I've always been sceptical about the global warming claims, mainly because of because of my career background and also because of number of next ice age vs global warming articles I've read depending upon how hot or cold it gets year by year.
So the programme presented a pretty logical explanation for why the planet heats up and cools down over the centuries backed up by scientific data, nothing to do with human emmisions of CO2, but directly proportional to sunspot activity on the sun.
It makes sense to me, but lets discuss.

there are going to be people who believe and those who don't....
this program painted one side of the arguement....
if you want to see the other side of the arguement, if you get a chance to see it please see "An Inconvenient Truth" which i believe a copy is being sent to every secondary school in the u.k.....
again it paints a compelling arguement..........

9 Mar 2007

Quote by fabio
I just finished watching 'The Great Global Warming Scandal' on channel 4.
Now I've always been sceptical about the global warming claims, mainly because of because of my career background and also because of number of next ice age vs global warming articles I've read depending upon how hot or cold it gets year by year.
So the programme presented a pretty logical explanation for why the planet heats up and cools down over the centuries backed up by scientific data, nothing to do with human emmisions of CO2, but directly proportional to sunspot activity on the sun.
It makes sense to me, but lets discuss.

there are going to be people who believe and those who don't....
this program painted one side of the arguement....
if you want to see the other side of the arguement, if you get a chance to see it please see "An Inconvenient Truth" which i believe a copy is being sent to every secondary school in the u.k.....
again it paints a compelling arguement..........
It painted a side that few have ever seen...
Is this because it is not widely believed or because we are not supposed to know dunno

9 Mar 2007

Im still very undecided on this debate. I try and be as environmentally friendly as possible with our family recycling and using 'green' products but I dont believe global warming is caused by us humans.
Where we are in Europe was once almost completely covered in ice. But after the ice age it was a desert plain resembling Africa. Who caused that? There were no people in 4x4's or aeroplanes darting about back then?
I believe its a natural phenomenon when the Earth moves slightly in its path of orbit around the sun, which has been happening in cycles since the Earth began. But just incase im staying green to be on the safe side dunno

9 Mar 2007

Quote by Xxxsexy24uxxx
Im still very undecided on this debate. I try and be as environmentally friendly as possible with our family recycling and using 'green' products but I dont believe global warming is caused by us humans.
Where we are in Europe was once almost completely covered in ice. But after the ice age it was a desert plain resembling Africa. Who caused that?
There were no people in 4x4's or aeroplanes darting about back then?
I believe its a natural phenomenon when the Earth moves slightly in its path of orbit around the sun, which has been happening in cycles since the Earth began. But just incase im staying green to be on the safe side

Someone else who believes the hype.... mad

9 Mar 2007

Quote by st3v3
I'm not really ok with the 'what if' argument, its not based on science or fact and a very useful tool for governments to raise money by levying tax on flights, cars etc, for un qualified environmentalists and the press to create public panic and support.
Historical scientific data, if correct as portrayed by the programme does show that CO2 has nothing to do with global warming.
CFC is a different matter, quite rightly shown by scientists to destroy the ionisphere.

I didn't see the program so I'm really speaking from a gut feeling.
It is easy to say that climate change is a conspiracy by governments to introduce more taxes but the anti-warning claims can be equally dismissed as been funded by those with vested interests (petro-chemical industries)
Scientists have to claim the most extreme results in order to make their results 'sexy'. The more interest in the results the more funding they get. So many will expound climate change disaster and others will claim no change at all.
We do not ever get a balanced view.

9 Mar 2007

Quote by jaymar
If you've ever watched "the day after tommorow" it's quite a disturbing thought is all this global warming. Could you imagine the horrors of the ice age happening all over again???!!! :shock:

We are still in the ice age, its not over yet kiss

An ice age is any period with polar ice caps

9 Mar 2007

Quote by Drewxcore
If you've ever watched "the day after tommorow" it's quite a disturbing thought is all this global warming. Could you imagine the horrors of the ice age happening all over again???!!! :shock:

We are still in the ice age, its not over yet
An ice age is any period with polar ice caps
An ice age is when the polar ice caps meet in the middle !
Another thing to consider. The climate models they continually run to "predict" the changes we can expect, never seem to predict anything. They have to be "tweaked" to get anywhere near what we are experiencing. In other words, they set them up to get the result they expect.....is that predicting, or projecting ?
The other side to the "who is paying the channel 4 makers" is "what have the various organisations, including government, got to gain from global warming".
In any case, it makes little difference. Global warming is happening, it has been for the past few thousand years. It will be for the foreseeable future. The question is not "did we do it", because the answer is inevitably no, but the other side "can we stop it" also has the same answer....no.
A bit like the "ozone holes".....where they there a thousand years ago ?
Errr...dunno. Why ?....well, the instruments to detect said holes were not there a thousand years ago....or a hundred even....But, since we stopped releasing CFCs' they are going aren't they....errr...no....not quite...they're still there, and they get bigger one year, and smaller the next....oooops.
The major problem with both global getting-slightly-hotter-maybe-sorta and got-holes-in-ma-ozone-dear-momma routines is that we have loads of "scientists" with loads of no-jobs seeking loads of careers with loadsa pensions and loadsa money....and failed polos like Almamater Gorey also seeking loadsa publicity and loadsa recognition.
So, are we getting global warming. Yes. Did we cause it. No. did we make it worse than it would have been. No. Did we make it happen a bit faster than it would have. Probably. Can we stop it. No. Can we slow it. No.

9 Mar 2007

Channel 4 are showing the Documentary again on Monday at 9pm on E4, for those of us who missed it :thumbup:

10 Mar 2007

Quote by meat2pleaseu
Channel 4 are showing the Documentary again on Monday at 9pm on E4, for those of us who missed it :thumbup:

:thumbup: well spotted.
Myself I'm very worried about global warming, but not because of the CO2 greenhouse effect which I really don't believe, to me the science is way to inaccurate.
I'm worried because the politicians, press and accademia stand to gain a lot more if they can convince everybody that it is a real threat and today there's European agreements being put in place to reduce C)2 which will have real repurcussions on us all.
I'd have no issues with having to use energy efficient lightbulbs in 4 years and normal bulbs no longer being available if the politicians got to the real reason or something sort of believable like reserving fossil fuels, but roping it in with a dodgy hypothesis is wrong.

10 Mar 2007

If commendant Blair is so worried about carbon emmissions, why does the cabinet have to be driven round in big gas guzzling 4 Litre cars, accompanied by 3-4 Range Rovers with 4.6 Litre engines, as well as the 4-6 police bikes rolleyes

(and as a side issue, lets not get into the debate on their self approved 50%ish payrise this year evil

)

10 Mar 2007

The americans dont seem to be worried, so that means we can relax and enjoy hotter summers biggrin

I heard someone mention global warming was happening on the moon too. Im personally not qualified to say yes or no on the subject of fact or fiction.

10 Mar 2007

Quote by m1970
The americans dont seem to be worried, so that means we can relax and enjoy hotter summers
I heard someone mention global warming was happening on the moon too. Im personally not qualified to say yes or no on the subject of fact or fiction.

If the main cause of global warming is sun activity then it would affect the moon, I'm pretty confident that the press won't be able to put that down to CO2 but who knows, on a more serious note I'm tempted to have do a search for historical moon temperatures vs earth temperatures vs solar activity vs CO2 in the atmosphere.
If the solar warming theory is correct then solar activity vs moon/earth temperatures would show correlation and CO2 would lag behind.

11 Mar 2007

Quote by Mallock2006
Im still very undecided on this debate. I try and be as environmentally friendly as possible with our family recycling and using 'green' products but I dont believe global warming is caused by us humans.
Where we are in Europe was once almost completely covered in ice. But after the ice age it was a desert plain resembling Africa. Who caused that?
There were no people in 4x4's or aeroplanes darting about back then?
I believe its a natural phenomenon when the Earth moves slightly in its path of orbit around the sun, which has been happening in cycles since the Earth began. But just incase im staying green to be on the safe side

Someone else who believes the hype.... mad

I wanted to come back to this when i had some facts... and since the Tories Want to place certain taxes on Air travel....
The Average Flight puts Tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere, that is the roughly the same as a village of 2000 does in one year
and as for the 4x4 arguement... what was actually proposed by the chancellor was that the more your car pollutes then the higher your car tax should be... simple rational not trying to catch anyone out, but to make people think about the cars they are purchasing....

I am still trying to work out why people do have a problem with it

11 Mar 2007

In response to Fabio's post, there is already a tax on Flights. Air Passenger Duty was in fact doubled by Gordon Brown in February. mad

The reason why some people take issue with these sort of taxes is that they see it as a cynical exploitation by the Government of the Global Warming arguement. The monies raised are not used for environmental issues but merely to swell the Exchequor's coffers.
I heard a Radio 5 discussion last week where a scientist was putting forward the alternative theory that CO2 levels are actually increasing due to global warming and not the other way around.
I have yet to be convinced that global warming is not a natural phenomenon

12 Mar 2007

Global warming is a serious matter without a shadow of a doubt... but take a light hearted look at this link, I saw this on TV and thought of you lot. lol