As we all know the Irish have said no to the Lisbon treaty. Which means that if any one country says no then the treaty is a no go but...yesterday the treaty was forced into law through parliament. :shock:
We all know this Goverment whilst they " promised " a referendum on the treaty, will never give us one for like the Irish we would throw it out. So they have opted to sign away our liberties to Europe, without our right to say yes or no!
I for one dont want some European knob telling us what we can and cannot do in our our judges what we can do and also our politicians who we elected, see their views disregarded by Brussels.
In the 70's we voted for a Europe where there was freedom to trade. It has gone from that to us being swallowed up by Europe bit by bit. The money that we waste is millions each year and for what?
My question is....should we pull out of Europe and save the money and spend it on things we all would benefit from, not to see European politicians with their noses in the trough! Do people understand what the hated treaty means and how it will affect us in the future? I say the Irish have voted no and if this Goverment still want to force this through, then give each and everyone of us the right to say yes or no for ourselves. :shock:
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Ireland says no to treaty
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Quote by de_sade
We all know this Goverment whilst they " promised " a referendum on the treaty, will never give us one for like the Irish we would throw it out. So they have opted to sign away our liberties to Europe, without our right to say yes or no!
I for one dont want some European knob telling us what we can and cannot do in our our judges what we can do and also our politicians who we elected, see their views disregarded by Brussels.
In the 70's we voted for a Europe where there was freedom to trade. It has gone from that to us being swallowed up by Europe bit by bit. The money that we waste is millions each year and for what?
I say the Irish have voted no and if this Goverment still want to force this through, then give each and everyone of us the right to say yes or no for ourselves. :shock:
Absolutely. We deserve the right to choose, rightly or wrongly in the future of our Country and we should be allowed the freedom to vote on that choice.
100% behind you Kentswingers.
This Country is no longer governed. It is time the people put politics back on track and kick this bunch of pseudo-socialists off the gravy train and into the gutters where they belong.
Def agree there. I feel that if you have a manifesto then that should be a legal give their votes on that manifesto only for them to ignore it when they get into power!
Why does this Government continue to throw our history down the toilet? Why do we have to belong to Europe at all? Its all about peoples own self importance. When are they ever going to do whats best for the people of this country, and not for their own greedy selves!
The accounts of the European Community are so hopelessly distorted by maladminisstration and corruption that they haven't been audited for years. No reputable accountants will put their names to such a shambles.
It's about time the people responsible were taken to task ...yes and to jail if deemed appropriate.
It's about time the people responsible were taken to task ...yes and to jail if deemed appropriate.
Democracy, the freedom to vote a person to represent you and others in government. Then when elected, go and do whatever they wish. :shock: No wonder there's so much resentment towards politicians.
It's about time they stood by their convictions and beliefs, instead of wavering everytime the party whips starting throwing their weight about.
It's about time they stood by their convictions and beliefs, instead of wavering everytime the party whips starting throwing their weight about.
Quote by Digitalknight
Democracy, the freedom to vote a person to represent you and others in government. Then when elected, go and do whatever they wish. :shock: No wonder there's so much resentment towards politicians.
It's about time they stood by their convictions and beliefs, instead of wavering everytime the party whips starting throwing their weight about.
Very true!
If we live in one of the most democratic countries in the world, God knows what some of the others are like.
We have just had a 42 day rule passed through Parliament, where it was clear that MP's were TOLD how to vote. Now thats democracy? If it is then thats crap!
If you want democracy vote with your own views and not what your told to vote. I cannot understand why politicians are not given the same voting ways as trade union members. Have a secret balot where nobody knows how you vote. That is the way general elections are done so why cant politicians do the same thing? At least the party whips cannot bribe and threaten MP'S with whatever, if they fail to tow the party line. :shock:
Democracy in the UK? Your having a laugh surely?
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
Democracy, the freedom to vote a person to represent you and others in government. Then when elected, go and do whatever they wish. :shock: No wonder there's so much resentment towards politicians.
It's about time they stood by their convictions and beliefs, instead of wavering everytime the party whips starting throwing their weight about.
Very true!
If we live in one of the most democratic countries in the world, God knows what some of the others are like.
We have just had a 42 day rule passed through Parliament, where it was clear that MP's were TOLD how to vote. Now thats democracy? If it is then thats crap!
If you want democracy vote with your own views and not what your told to vote. I cannot understand why politicians are not given the same voting ways as trade union members. Have a secret balot where nobody knows how you vote. That is the way general elections are done so why cant politicians do the same thing? At least the party whips cannot bribe and threaten MP'S with whatever, if they fail to tow the party line. :shock:
Democracy in the UK? Your having a laugh surely?
Yeah but kent, then we would have those politicians voting on their convictions or consciences - we couldn't be doing with that sort of thing now can we
I agree with the entiments so far - what a bloody farce.
I think the EU is a very very good thing. I just wrote a massively long email arguing with a lot of the points above, and then I'd timed out by the time I came to send it. Which is probably a good thing, because I don't REALLY want to get into a slanging match. But I did just want to say before I go to sleep - yes - at least someone on here thinks it's good.
Oh, couldn't resist this one though:
Zimbabwe, for a start. Have you read about what is going on there right now?
Oh, and America, actually. And let's not forget China. Or actually most of South America, Africa and Asia.
Actually, most countries outside the EU are markedly less democratic than most countries inside it. Wonder if that's a coincidence.
Oh, couldn't resist this one though:
Quote by kentswingers777
If we live in one of the most democratic countries in the world, God knows what some of the others are like.
Zimbabwe, for a start. Have you read about what is going on there right now?
Oh, and America, actually. And let's not forget China. Or actually most of South America, Africa and Asia.
Actually, most countries outside the EU are markedly less democratic than most countries inside it. Wonder if that's a coincidence.
Quote by tomu
I think the EU is a very very good thing. I just wrote a massively long email arguing with a lot of the points above, and then I'd timed out by the time I came to send it. Which is probably a good thing, because I don't REALLY want to get into a slanging match. But I did just want to say before I go to sleep - yes - at least someone on here thinks it's good.
Oh, couldn't resist this one though:
If we live in one of the most democratic countries in the world, God knows what some of the others are like.
Zimbabwe, for a start. Have you read about what is going on there right now?
Oh, and America, actually. And let's not forget China. Or actually most of South America, Africa and Asia.
Actually, most countries outside the EU are markedly less democratic than most countries inside it. Wonder if that's a coincidence.
am 50/50 on this issue,since the Irish NO vote was just a small margin of 53.4% to 46.6% with the lowest voters turn out of just over 40% ,i would be interested to know the reasons why you are supporting this lisbon treaty...make it short if you may to avoid time
Democracy?...you don`t live in a Democracy if you thinkthat you are then the politicians have done their jobs and have well and truly pulled the wool over your eyes.
as to the irish vote...did not the French and germans vote against the European Treaty ( read Lisbon Treaty) unfortunately the pro european politicians within most of the union countries are in the majority in positions of power and are determined to push through a european super state come what may... so I re-iterate Democracy what Democracy!!!
as to the irish vote...did not the French and germans vote against the European Treaty ( read Lisbon Treaty) unfortunately the pro european politicians within most of the union countries are in the majority in positions of power and are determined to push through a european super state come what may... so I re-iterate Democracy what Democracy!!!
Quote by tomu
I think the EU is a very very good thing. I just wrote a massively long email arguing with a lot of the points above, and then I'd timed out by the time I came to send it. Which is probably a good thing, because I don't REALLY want to get into a slanging match. But I did just want to say before I go to sleep - yes - at least someone on here thinks it's good.
Oh, couldn't resist this one though:
If we live in one of the most democratic countries in the world, God knows what some of the others are like.
Zimbabwe, for a start. Have you read about what is going on there right now?
Oh, and America, actually. And let's not forget China. Or actually most of South America, Africa and Asia.
Actually, most countries outside the EU are markedly less democratic than most countries inside it. Wonder if that's a coincidence.
Tomu- Copy & paste, no need to worry about the time out! :thumbup:
Quote by robhambledon
Democracy?...you don`t live in a Democracy if you thinkthat you are then the politicians have done their jobs and have well and truly pulled the wool over your eyes.
as to the irish vote...did not the French and germans vote against the European Treaty ( read Lisbon Treaty) unfortunately the pro european politicians within most of the union countries are in the majority in positions of power and are determined to push through a european super state come what may... so I re-iterate Democracy what Democracy!!!
French and Dutch
Quote by Phuckers
Democracy?...you don`t live in a Democracy if you thinkthat you are then the politicians have done their jobs and have well and truly pulled the wool over your eyes.
as to the irish vote...did not the French and germans vote against the European Treaty ( read Lisbon Treaty) unfortunately the pro european politicians within most of the union countries are in the majority in positions of power and are determined to push through a european super state come what may... so I re-iterate Democracy what Democracy!!!
French and Dutch
I stand corrected..but in true european stylie I've not read about this but I do believe that many things changed for good and bad when we became part of EU...
As for politics, its more about control these days than anything else!
I always believed in Democracy and used to run a project for young people where it underpinned the whole organisation (we were a little different to most other youth projects). I've tutored Community Studies, where democracy, peoples rights, decision making again underpinned the whole course! Never will I do it again whilst the political climate is how it is... how can I tutor or work with others when I know it no longer works how it should??
Yet, there is EU and Central Government funding available to organisations where local people have to be participative in decision making to receive it.... BLAH! The decision is already made or done in such a way that local people have a choice yes, but out of an already set agenda that's acceptable to politicians. Its all baloney!
Someone please give me an idea of a job that exists where politics isn't involved
As for politics, its more about control these days than anything else!
I always believed in Democracy and used to run a project for young people where it underpinned the whole organisation (we were a little different to most other youth projects). I've tutored Community Studies, where democracy, peoples rights, decision making again underpinned the whole course! Never will I do it again whilst the political climate is how it is... how can I tutor or work with others when I know it no longer works how it should??
Yet, there is EU and Central Government funding available to organisations where local people have to be participative in decision making to receive it.... BLAH! The decision is already made or done in such a way that local people have a choice yes, but out of an already set agenda that's acceptable to politicians. Its all baloney!
Someone please give me an idea of a job that exists where politics isn't involved
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
My question is....should we pull out of Europe and save the money and spend it on things we all would benefit from, not to see European politicians with their noses in the trough! Do people understand what the hated treaty means and how it will affect us in the future? I say the Irish have voted no and if this Goverment still want to force this through, then give each and everyone of us the right to say yes or no for ourselves. :shock:
I think the Irish did the right thing, after all they not only had a referendum but were also given more information, including copies of the 200 page document to read.
However the real question isn't whether we should be in or not, that no longer is an option (I think). The main thrust of the discussions, as far as I can tell, is what kind of EU we wish to have, how to define it, how we can manage it, and where the main point of focus and control should be situated.
For it to work properly there should be a consensus so that any agree structure will be to the benefit of ALL the countries involved. Clearly there are still many issues that do not fit, and Ireland was right to reject it.
What I think is interesting is that many other countries were "persuaded" to overlook these issues, although they had rejected the Contitutional Treaty for the same reasons that the Irish have rejected this one.
Plus ça change?
:? :? 