I am not a big TV fan but this morning watched Trish Godard.
The subject was raised about 16 year olds being sent to prison.
There was a man on there that in the 80’s had been sent to prison for burglary aged 16
He discussed how at that age he was angry with life and then sent into a hostile environment amongst adults.
He said he came out after being abused even more angry, than went he went in, feeling let down by society and nobody caring.
This got me thinking, as now as an adult this guy was able to turn his life around and make good of it, but there are others that don’t ever get the help to understand at such an impressionable age.
I feel a lot are looking for self worth, without which we feel worthless. No wonder a lot feel nobody cares.
This saddened me!
Are we as a society letting our children down?
Is sending 16 year old to prison the answer?
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Is sending 16 year old to prison the answer?
if you dont want to do the time.. .dont do the crime!!! simple as.
i think.. we as a socity have be come too soft.. and too busy protecting the criminals, instead of looking after the victims.
ive been on the bus before, and heard kids boasting about being arrested. as if its a status thing..... when i was young (and thats not too long ago).. my dad would of killed me if i he was to get a phone call from the police about me.. that alone was my excuss for staying well away from trouble.
i think.. we as a socity have be come too soft.. and too busy protecting the criminals, instead of looking after the victims.
ive been on the bus before, and heard kids boasting about being arrested. as if its a status thing..... when i was young (and thats not too long ago).. my dad would of killed me if i he was to get a phone call from the police about me.. that alone was my excuss for staying well away from trouble.
Sex God
I think the message to send to young people is that if you are caught doing the crime then expect to do the time...
Saying that he was "angry with life" is not a suitable defence in court...
In the area we live there are plenty of youths that have been shown all the sympathy in the world and given all the listening ears they need after getting into trouble and they still go on to re-offend...
Equally there are those that go to prison/young offenders institutes that go on to re-offend as well but there has to be some sort of boundry beyond which punishment is expected(I know what I'm trying to say but am having trouble finding the right words).....
Saying that he was "angry with life" is not a suitable defence in court...
In the area we live there are plenty of youths that have been shown all the sympathy in the world and given all the listening ears they need after getting into trouble and they still go on to re-offend...
Equally there are those that go to prison/young offenders institutes that go on to re-offend as well but there has to be some sort of boundry beyond which punishment is expected(I know what I'm trying to say but am having trouble finding the right words).....
if you dont want to do the time.. .dont do the crime!!! simple as.
i think.. we as a socity have be come too soft.. and too busy protecting the criminals, instead of looking after the victims.
ive been on the bus before, and heard kids boasting about being arrested. as if its a status thing..... when i was young (and thats not too long ago).. my dad would of killed me if i he was to get a phone call from the police about me.. that alone was my excuss for staying well away from trouble.]
We were bought up the same way, I was more scared of the punishment from my Dad then any the authorites could give me.
Sex God
He was punished for committing a crime. At 16, regardless of how 'angry at life' he was, he knew what was right and what was wrong. So yes, sending him to prison was the right thing to do. He let himself down, it was nothing to do with society.
I do agree with punishment being the answer.
But a few years ago I watched a documentary about a woman in America that was on death row that subsequently was put to death.
The documentary was based on her life story.
She lived with her father, brothers, and grandfather who all sexually abused her from a very early age, at 12 she ran away and lived in the woods until she was 16 and fended for herself. As an adult she has such a hatred of men that went on a killing spree.
While I am not condoning her actions it did leave me with a feeling that I could understand how her mind was programmed into think all men were worthless.
I myself don’t think this way as I have had a different upbringing.
I do think we are not always aware of why some children are angry in life, and I am not suggesting that they have experienced such extremes of abuse.
But then I do think some can be misunderstood as just being trouble.
Hope this makes sence!
But a few years ago I watched a documentary about a woman in America that was on death row that subsequently was put to death.
The documentary was based on her life story.
She lived with her father, brothers, and grandfather who all sexually abused her from a very early age, at 12 she ran away and lived in the woods until she was 16 and fended for herself. As an adult she has such a hatred of men that went on a killing spree.
While I am not condoning her actions it did leave me with a feeling that I could understand how her mind was programmed into think all men were worthless.
I myself don’t think this way as I have had a different upbringing.
I do think we are not always aware of why some children are angry in life, and I am not suggesting that they have experienced such extremes of abuse.
But then I do think some can be misunderstood as just being trouble.
Hope this makes sence!
Quote by Freckledbird
He was punished for committing a crime. At 16, regardless of how 'angry at life' he was, he knew what was right and what was wrong. So yes, sending him to prison was the right thing to do. He let himself down, it was nothing to do with society.
FB.... I loves ya !
I could not have put that any better myself.
I am sick and tired of society bending over backwards for these people, and them not giving a toss about anyone.
At ten kids should know the difference between right and wrong, and at sixteen they most certainly do. Bang em up and then let them pay their debt in someway to the person they have done the crime against. But as usual the liberal sandal wearers will say otherwise...until they get mugged or robbed by some shitty scumbag.
You do know how to get my back up minxy with your threads.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
if you dont want to do the time.. .dont do the crime!!! simple as.
i think.. we as a socity have be come too soft.. and too busy protecting the criminals, instead of looking after the victims.
ive been on the bus before, and heard kids boasting about being arrested. as if its a status thing..... when i was young (and thats not too long ago).. my dad would of killed me if i he was to get a phone call from the police about me.. that alone was my excuss for staying well away from trouble.]
We were bought up the same way, I was more scared of the punishment from my Dad then any the authorites could give me.
In that case there is an argument for imprisoning the kid's parents too, as ultimately their failure as parents lends them a degree of responsibility as well.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
He was punished for committing a crime. At 16, regardless of how 'angry at life' he was, he knew what was right and what was wrong. So yes, sending him to prison was the right thing to do. He let himself down, it was nothing to do with society.
FB.... I loves ya !
I could not have put that any better myself.
I am sick and tired of society bending over backwards for these people, and them not giving a toss about anyone.
At ten kids should know the difference between right and wrong, and at sixteen they most certainly do. Bang em up and then let them pay their debt in someway to the person they have done the crime against. But as usual the liberal sandal wearers will say otherwise...until they get mugged or robbed by some shitty scumbag.
You do know how to get my back up minxy with your threads.
Kent, I'm starting to worry a little now - you've said that twice recently. And you've agreed with Jaymar and me. And Peanut. Scary stuff
Quote by Theladyisaminx
I do agree with punishment being the answer.
But a few years ago I watched a documentary about a woman in America that was on death row that subsequently was put to death.
The documentary was based on her life story.
She lived with her father, brothers, and grandfather who all sexually abused her from a very early age, at 12 she ran away and lived in the woods until she was 16 and fended for herself. As an adult she has such a hatred of men that went on a killing I am not condoning her actions it did leave me with a feeling that I could understand how her mind was programmed into think all men were worthless.
I myself don’t think this way as I have had a different upbringing.
I do think we are not always aware of why some children are angry in life, and I am not suggesting that they have experienced such extremes of abuse.
But then I do think some can be misunderstood as just being trouble.
Hope this makes sence!
Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Everyone who has broken the law can and will try and defend their actions. Mother did not breast feed them, Fathers never took them to a footie match..blah blah blah.
Bottom line is they knew what they was doing was wrong, but did not give a toss who they hurt getting what they wanted. I have NO sympathy at all for people who blame others for their own problems.
am against kids being put behind bars,but there are some exception cases where its the only death sentence in America has never stopped capital crimes so we shouldnt expect prisons to deter this knuckle heads,lack of the cane and discipline in school contribute to alot of this juvenille crimes...this kids are crying for help the system is against them at all odds!
Quote by Freckledbird
He was punished for committing a crime. At 16, regardless of how 'angry at life' he was, he knew what was right and what was wrong. So yes, sending him to prison was the right thing to do. He let himself down, it was nothing to do with society.
FB.... I loves ya !
I could not have put that any better myself.
I am sick and tired of society bending over backwards for these people, and them not giving a toss about anyone.
At ten kids should know the difference between right and wrong, and at sixteen they most certainly do. Bang em up and then let them pay their debt in someway to the person they have done the crime against. But as usual the liberal sandal wearers will say otherwise...until they get mugged or robbed by some shitty scumbag.
You do know how to get my back up minxy with your threads.
Kent, I'm starting to worry a little now - you've said that twice recently. And you've agreed with Jaymar and me. And Peanut. Scary stuff
Now you mention it, yes it does sound scary. There are some I will never agree with more than once to be honest, it is a rare occurance.
Well as I am always right sometimes people do say things that I agree with FB.
Sex God
I don't in most cases think prison is a good thing for either the 16 years old or society and that everything possible should be done to avoid it. Imprisonment should be an absolute last resort. 16 is too young. Any age is too young really
Quote by Lost
I don't in most cases think prison is a good thing for either the 16 years old or society and that everything possible should be done to avoid it. Imprisonment should be an absolute last resort. 16 is too young. Any age is too young really
Then get them to be like 99% of people, and be a law abiding citizen. If they cant or wont, then the only answer is to stop them, and in my book the only messsage they seem to understand is harsh punishments.
We have spent years doing the softly softly approach, for what? Kids have no respect, no boundaries and more importantly no fear of anyone or anything. Thats what the softly approach has achieved. we have done the soft approach and it aint working, nows the time to start getting tough. Then and only then will things improve.
Quote by kentswingers777
I don't in most cases think prison is a good thing for either the 16 years old or society and that everything possible should be done to avoid it. Imprisonment should be an absolute last resort. 16 is too young. Any age is too young really
Then get them to be like 99% of people, and be a law abiding citizen. If they cant or wont, then the only answer is to stop them, and in my book the only messsage they seem to understand is harsh punishments.
We have spent years doing the softly softly approach, for what? Kids have no respect, no boundaries and more importantly no fear of anyone or anything. Thats what the softly approach has achieved. we have done the soft approach and it aint working, nows the time to start getting tough. Then and only then will things improve.
softly softly is the new govt. stupid laws to give more powers to kids do has they wish,you cant even smack your own child for fear of them being taken away from the govt goes ahead and introduce a military asbo medals system ,other cities put the pics of this juvenile criminals on buses to ashame them,the future is so doomed!
Quote by Phuckers
I don't in most cases think prison is a good thing for either the 16 years old or society and that everything possible should be done to avoid it. Imprisonment should be an absolute last resort. 16 is too young. Any age is too young really
Then get them to be like 99% of people, and be a law abiding citizen. If they cant or wont, then the only answer is to stop them, and in my book the only messsage they seem to understand is harsh punishments.
We have spent years doing the softly softly approach, for what? Kids have no respect, no boundaries and more importantly no fear of anyone or anything. Thats what the softly approach has achieved. we have done the soft approach and it aint working, nows the time to start getting tough. Then and only then will things improve.
softly softly is the new govt. stupid laws to give more powers to kids do has they wish,you cant even smack your own child for fear of them being take way the govt goes ahead and introduce a military asbo medals system ,other cities put the pics of this juvenile criminals on buses to ashame them,the future is so doomed!
Doomed I say.
There is still hope phuckers.... I hope.
Quote by Phuckers
am against kids being put behind bars,but there are some exception cases where its the only death sentence in America has never stopped capital crimes so we shouldnt expect prisons to deter this knuckle heads,lack of the cane and discipline in school contribute to alot of this juvenille crimes...this kids are crying for help the system is against them at all odds!
Phuckers, I agree with some of what you've said.
However, the last bit is nonsense. I know a child who has had the system bend over backwards to help them- and they spend time online researching way's to manipulate it. They take great pride in using the system for their own ends, and know full well that the same system can't touch them when they do anything wrong.
Quote by winchwench
am against kids being put behind bars,but there are some exception cases where its the only death sentence in America has never stopped capital crimes so we shouldnt expect prisons to deter this knuckle heads,lack of the cane and discipline in school contribute to alot of this juvenille crimes...this kids are crying for help the system is against them at all odds!
Phuckers, I agree with some of what you've said.
However, the last bit is nonsense. I know a child who has had the system bend over backwards to help them- and they spend time online researching way's to manipulate it. They take great pride in using the system for their own ends, and know full well that the same system can't touch them when they do anything wrong.
This is scary winch. I agree with you too.
Thats you and FB in one day. See what bank holidays do to me? Sex God
In a few cases prison maybe the answer but in most I think its detrimental to the person and to society. I am not advocating weak liberal answers i am advocating different soulutions. This maybe things such as hard work or making some sort of recompense to those affected immediately by the crime. We need to think about things differently and in other ways than locking them up. All that ends up doing is giving these kids a worse attitude and after a short spell in prison they come out harder and better equipped to do worse things. Thats recognised as fact is it not?
One thing neglected is that a lot of the generations problems are there through our and our parents allowing it to happen. We must shoulder a lot of the blame and come up with better mnore effective solutions.
This isn't me being a bit do gooder-ish - i would like to see far more electronic tagging done with the proviso that if they break curfew every ten minutes they get a REALLY hefty electric shock by remote control possibly.
One thing neglected is that a lot of the generations problems are there through our and our parents allowing it to happen. We must shoulder a lot of the blame and come up with better mnore effective solutions.
This isn't me being a bit do gooder-ish - i would like to see far more electronic tagging done with the proviso that if they break curfew every ten minutes they get a REALLY hefty electric shock by remote control possibly.
Quote by Lost
In a few cases prison maybe the answer but in most I think its detrimental to the person and to society. I am not advocating weak liberal answers i am advocating different soulutions. This maybe things such as hard work or making some sort of recompense to those affected immediately by the crime. We need to think about things differently and in other ways than locking them up. All that ends up doing is giving these kids a worse attitude and after a short spell in prison they come out harder and better equipped to do worse things. Thats recognised as fact is it not?
One thing neglected is that a lot of the generations problems are there through our and our parents allowing it to happen. We must shoulder a lot of the blame and come up with better mnore effective solutions.
This isn't me being a bit do gooder-ish - i would like to see far more electronic tagging done with the proviso that if they break curfew every ten minutes they get a REALLY hefty electric shock by remote control possibly.
I understand where you are coming from lost but...have we not tried all of the solutions already?
Kids have more counsellors than you can throw a stick at. We are more helpful to kids needs than we have ever been, but kids have just now taken the piss. They know they can get away with anything now. And they play on that everyday of the week.
But I feel at 16 they are way past the softly approach. By that age they are almost beyond help anyway. A short sharp shock maybe just maybe, will be the only way to get them back on track.
Sex God
Quote by winchwench
Phuckers, I agree with some of what you've said.
However, the last bit is nonsense. I know a child who has had the system bend over backwards to help them- and they spend time online researching way's to manipulate it. They take great pride in using the system for their own ends, and know full well that the same system can't touch them when they do anything wrong.
We both know children like that dont we :-(
Quote by Lost
In a few cases prison maybe the answer but in most I think its detrimental to the person and to society. I am not advocating weak liberal answers i am advocating different soulutions. This maybe things such as hard work or making some sort of recompense to those affected immediately by the crime. We need to think about things differently and in other ways than locking them up. All that ends up doing is giving these kids a worse attitude and after a short spell in prison they come out harder and better equipped to do worse things. Thats recognised as fact is it not?
One thing neglected is that a lot of the generations problems are there through our and our parents allowing it to happen. We must shoulder a lot of the blame and come up with better mnore effective solutions.
This isn't me being a bit do gooder-ish - i would like to see far more electronic tagging done with the proviso that if they break curfew every ten minutes they get a REALLY hefty electric shock by remote control possibly.
so you think electric shock is better than looking them up!
...brilliant! Sex God
Quote by Mr-Powers
In a few cases prison maybe the answer but in most I think its detrimental to the person and to society. I am not advocating weak liberal answers i am advocating different soulutions. This maybe things such as hard work or making some sort of recompense to those affected immediately by the crime. We need to think about things differently and in other ways than locking them up. All that ends up doing is giving these kids a worse attitude and after a short spell in prison they come out harder and better equipped to do worse things. Thats recognised as fact is it not?
One thing neglected is that a lot of the generations problems are there through our and our parents allowing it to happen. We must shoulder a lot of the blame and come up with better mnore effective solutions.
This isn't me being a bit do gooder-ish - i would like to see far more electronic tagging done with the proviso that if they break curfew every ten minutes they get a REALLY hefty electric shock by remote control possibly.
so you think electric shock is better than looking them up!
...brilliant!No I think that tagging is a good thing in conjunction with curfew. The electric shock bit? Well thats just a little extra to be going on with. It could be with something else i guess. This was the first thing that came to mind.
Quote by Lost
In a few cases prison maybe the answer but in most I think its detrimental to the person and to society. I am not advocating weak liberal answers i am advocating different soulutions. This maybe things such as hard work or making some sort of recompense to those affected immediately by the crime. We need to think about things differently and in other ways than locking them up. All that ends up doing is giving these kids a worse attitude and after a short spell in prison they come out harder and better equipped to do worse things. Thats recognised as fact is it not?
One thing neglected is that a lot of the generations problems are there through our and our parents allowing it to happen. We must shoulder a lot of the blame and come up with better mnore effective solutions.
This isn't me being a bit do gooder-ish - i would like to see far more electronic tagging done with the proviso that if they break curfew every ten minutes they get a REALLY hefty electric shock by remote control possibly.
so you think electric shock is better than looking them up!
...brilliant!No I think that tagging is a good thing in conjunction with curfew. The electric shock bit? Well thats just a little extra to be going on with. It could be with something else i guess. This was the first thing that came to mind.
Tagging...commit all the crimes you like just so long as your home by 6pm.
Sex God
Quote by Mr-Powers
Tagging...commit all the crimes you like just so long as your home by 6pm.
:lol2:
I like that description....
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
I understand where you are coming from lost but...have we not tried all of the solutions already?
Kids have more counsellors than you can throw a stick at. We are more helpful to kids needs than we have ever been, but kids have just now taken the piss. They know they can get away with anything now. And they play on that everyday of the week.
But I feel at 16 they are way past the softly approach. By that age they are almost beyond help anyway. A short sharp shock maybe just maybe, will be the only way to get them back on track.
I can understand the frustration felt by the majority of people in the impotent stuff dished out on these miscreant teens.
I find it hard to put into words on here how I think that responsibilty should be placed back into the parents/guardians others in whose care we put our children at early ages with some sort of modicum of sense without the paranoia of someone somewhere saying they are out of order and making them out to be such bad/evil people.
In this i'm not talking about those who go over the top that goes without saying its wrong, more your average everyday citizen wanting to do their best by the child. Parents and others can be all too frightened of the consequences of disciplining and the paranoia that surrounds such stuff.
There are things i'm sure that haven't been tried before but lock-up isn't the answer no lesson other than bad ones learned by the inmate in the main. Maybe some people could come up with some ideas?
Quote by Lost
I understand where you are coming from lost but...have we not tried all of the solutions already?
Kids have more counsellors than you can throw a stick at. We are more helpful to kids needs than we have ever been, but kids have just now taken the piss. They know they can get away with anything now. And they play on that everyday of the week.
But I feel at 16 they are way past the softly approach. By that age they are almost beyond help anyway. A short sharp shock maybe just maybe, will be the only way to get them back on track.
I can understand the frustration felt by the majority of people in the impotent stuff dished out on these miscreant teens.
I find it hard to put into words on here how I think that responsibilty should be placed back into the parents/guardians others in whose care we put our children at early ages with some sort of modicum of sense without the paranoia of someone somewhere saying they are out of order and making them out to be such bad/evil people.
In this i'm not talking about those who go over the top that goes without saying its wrong, more your average everyday citizen wanting to do their best by the child. Parents and others can be all too frightened of the consequences of disciplining and the paranoia that surrounds such stuff.
There are things i'm sure that haven't been tried before but lock-up isn't the answer no lesson other than bad ones learned by the inmate in the main. Maybe some people could come up with some ideas?
What about the birch?
Maybe we should also sort out in this country what defines a "child" and an "adult". It is legal to have sex, get married and have children at 16 and yet 18 seems to be the generally held conception of coming of age. So those who choose to become parents at 16 can't legally drive a car, buy an alcoholic drink in a pub or vote. At 16 they can legally gamble (buy lottery tickets) and smoke. They can also be killed serving their country in the armed forces.
So are 16 year olds adults or children still? If they are children then they should be punished as children. Or maybe we could have a teen punishment system,like borstal or youth offenders but not as they exist at the moment. Then again some people will say that if they commit adult crimes then they should accept adult punishments.
My view? Bring back capital punishment :twisted:
So are 16 year olds adults or children still? If they are children then they should be punished as children. Or maybe we could have a teen punishment system,like borstal or youth offenders but not as they exist at the moment. Then again some people will say that if they commit adult crimes then they should accept adult punishments.
My view? Bring back capital punishment :twisted:
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