Open message to Mark2 MkII

30 Aug 2004

Like TE, I had spent ten minutes composing a response for inclusion in the original Open message to Mark thread.. I didn't want to put this in the original (???) Mark2 thread as that has become, rightly so, light hearted.

Quote by Mark
If we didnâ€™t have mods here keeping this place tidy then weâ€™d soon have an almighty mess on our hands, and no one wants that. . . . . . . . . we do always try to get it right and stay balanced.

While I completely agree, without reservation with ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I have recently lost a little of the respect I gave automatically to the position of moderator.
I think that when threads are locked, there ought to be a small explanation in the "I've locked this thread" post, posted by the mod that locked the thread, in the way the Lorry driver threads were locked.
One of the attractions of this site for me is/was (?) the open forum aspect.
What I find almost unacceptable and unforgivable, from a basic manners point of view, is the deletion of threads/posts without even the common courtesy to say that it's been done, let alone the reason why; publicly, privately or even written on the side of a cow.
Now, I am not naive enough to 'take on' the establishment. Nor do I have the inclination to do so. And it is not in my nature to be abusive, other than in response to abuse.
I had a point of view, wanted to express it and clear my chest. I believe in both free speech and the right to reply. I have in all my adult life, dealt with and accepted the consequences of my actions; but have nearly always had the opportunity to face my accusers and answer any charges levelled against me.
From the subsequent PMs I have received, I know that a couple of early risers saw the post this morning, so I know I put it in the right place.
I do wonder, as I type; how long this post will remain.

30 Aug 2004

What post are you talking about? I'm an early riser.. care to PM me the problem? Can't promise to help but give me a try.

30 Aug 2004

I think yours is a very good question Dambuster. My only concern is that after giving an explanation for why a thread was locked (when most of the time it is obvious) that this would then lead to further debate.
dunno

just a thought.
Love
WIlma
x x x x

30 Aug 2004

Quote by WilmaFlintstone
I think yours is a very good question Dambuster. My only concern is that after giving an explanation for why a thread was locked (when most of the time it is obvious) that this would then lead to further debate.
just a thought.
Love
WIlma
x x x x

I can see that concern, but do we not alomst live by the principle "The Judge's decision is final" ?? Regardless of any appeals systems. There are so many things in life that we do not agree with, but when push come to shove - we know that we have to accept them.

30 Aug 2004

Quote by WilmaFlintstone
I think yours is a very good question Dambuster. My only concern is that after giving an explanation for why a thread was locked (when most of the time it is obvious) that this would then lead to further debate.
just a thought.
Love
WIlma
x x x x

As the resident Maverick I feel I have to question why "further debate" is automatically deamed to be bad?

30 Aug 2004

Well Judges are a law unto themselves and the law is an arse but Iâ€™m no expert on the law. lol

Love
Wilma
X x x x

30 Aug 2004

Oh Foxy I wondered when you would appear. Nice to do battle again. lol

Love
Wilma
x x x x
Take it into a pm if you want to goad me.

30 Aug 2004

hmmmmm......

30 Aug 2004

Foxy, In the case of the Lorry Drivers thread, which you did understand why the lock was necessary, I think that the main reason it couldn`t carry on was because of the emotive nature. I can understand what you were trying to do with the second thread, but unfortunately with such high emotion, and personal experiances which fuelled these emotions, I don`t think it would have ever remained a calm discussion. I think the mods recognised this and acted accordingly.
I`ve run a site where I`ve been criticised for the opposite, not acting soon enough. Sometimes I think the Mods are all too often damned if they do, and damned if they don`t!
Venusxxx

30 Aug 2004

I always thought that when a thread was locked a mod pm'ed you to tell you and say why,ive always been pm'ed when ive been a naughty boy!!!!

30 Aug 2004

OK.. I've now got the gist of the problem from Dambuster and have sent it winging it's way to ALL the other Mods and Mark.
I can confirm that the thread did exist - but what happened and why is a mystery to me. However, most times people are PMd to say why but not always.
:P

30 Aug 2004

Quote by Mark
What does slightly niggle me is the way people sometimes write things like, and I expect this to be deleted too type thing. Maybe you didn't mean it, maybe you were just making your point come across as strongly felt... Yes I did mean it, but in the words I used.
but, did you really expect one of us to delete this thread? Really? :shock: Why not? It happened this morning.
If you want to PM me with the thread of yours that's been deleted(?) A straight question, Mark. Do you doubt that it happened? then do so, else tell us all here.

The thread was called Lorry drivers 3 in which I attempted to answer and rebuke some of the commments made in the, now locked, previous threads on the subject of "showing" to lorry drivers. I typed it directly into SH so do not have it as a wp document that I could easily cut and paste.

30 Aug 2004

Quote by VenusnMars
Foxy, In the case of the Lorry Drivers thread, which you did understand why the lock was necessary, I think that the main reason it couldn`t carry on was because of the emotive nature. I can understand what you were trying to do with the second thread, but unfortunately with such high emotion, and personal experiances which fuelled these emotions, I don`t think it would have ever remained a calm discussion. I think the mods recognised this and acted accordingly.
I`ve run a site where I`ve been criticised for the opposite, not acting soon enough. Sometimes I think the Mods are all too often damned if they do, and damned if they don`t!
Venusxxx

Thank yiu, I was beginging to think only I could see the light!! U fail to understand why people cant be calm and rational in a debate - any debate. Name calling and personal remarks make them seem so childish.
Maverick, by your definition I can live with. I think that in all walks of life it needs someone to challenge authourity to keep it on track and to make it revise its policies.
To politicise the discussion that is what was missing in the states and why Bush managed to lead them blindfolded to war.
Again its a case of those in authourity standing back and not taking the issue or challenge personally.

30 Aug 2004

There is a complete and total difference in taking something personally that was not meant that way and putting something across to an individual,thats when a debate goes too far when getting at individuals!
(just my twopenneth)

30 Aug 2004

my two penneth ....
dangerous driving sucks , so do witchhunts

30 Aug 2004

Quote by Mark
Maverick, by your definition I can live with. I think that in all walks of life it needs someone to challenge authourity to keep it on track and to make it revise its policies.
To politicise the discussion that is what was missing in the states and why Bush managed to lead them blindfolded to war.
Again its a case of those in authourity standing back and not taking the issue or challenge personally.

Are you serious? So you think that perhaps all the sheep around you are so glad that you're here speaking up for them? Keeping us in check? Maybe I am on drugs, but I can't see how Bush going to war relates to being a pain in the arse on here ;)
Enlighten me - and no, don't worry, I won't take it personally.
I dont expect anyone to be grateful and it is the principal with Bush,no one challlenged him so he got away with it. OK iits a global example and probably not the best one but try thinking abstractly.

30 Aug 2004

Quote by Jags
most times people are PMd to say why but not always.
:P

Not in my experience, and I've never expected an explanation.
When I get deleted I assume there's a reason - the reason may be an intelligent one or it may be "cos I can".
Either way, there's no point in arguing about it. He/She who has the delete button wins.
End of story.

30 Aug 2004

ok. once again i'm talking from very, very limited experience . . . i am claiming nothing for myself . . it's very much IMHO! and most likely not my place to even have a humble opinion!
exactly how do you all think "open forum" is preserved. particularly this one?
once upon a time, for a coupla short weeks, i felt i was up to opping a chatroom not a million miles away!
one of my major reasons for not opping anymore, was cos i found that there's a very, very fine line between allowing free speech, and allowing things to get personal and derogatory. i erred on the side of caution, and looked entirely kick happy as a result! it was altogether impossible for me to find the right time to step in to preserve a balanced discussion!
allowing "open forum" or an "open chatroom" is a very difficult job, and i think many would be surprised by what goes on behind the scenes to ensure it stays that way! i'm quite sure it wasn't an arbitrary decision, but was discussed the first time round.
the discussion was locked, rightly so, cos it had degenerated into personal slanging matches. to re-open it was a mistake. it was rightly locked again! nuff said!
if i've said too much even here, a mod will rightly be along any moment to delete my entire post. in the interests of balanced argument, i will not argue!
neil x x x ;-)

30 Aug 2004

Quote by Ice Pie
most times people are PMd to say why but not always.
:P

Not in my experience, and I've never expected an explanation.
When I get deleted I assume there's a reason - the reason may be an intelligent one or it may be "cos I can".
Either way, there's no point in arguing about it. He/She who has the delete button wins.
End of story.
It would be wrong if the Mods did just coz they could and i don't think that they would,but sometimes it's nice to know why.

30 Aug 2004

Quote by Mark
I dont expect anyone to be grateful and it is the principal with Bush,no one challlenged him so he got away with it. OK iits a global example and probably not the best one but try thinking abstractly.

Sure, I knew what you meant, but I'm still left wondering how it relates to this site and your perceived role on here smile

It's OK, don't rush to post, I'll give you plenty of time to think it through (not being sarcastic).
I dont need time to think it through, all authority needs challengeing sometime. Sorry just cant wrie it any clearer.

30 Aug 2004

Quote by Steve_Lincs
most times people are PMd to say why but not always.
:P

Not in my experience, and I've never expected an explanation.
When I get deleted I assume there's a reason - the reason may be an intelligent one or it may be "cos I can".
Either way, there's no point in arguing about it. He/She who has the delete button wins.
End of story.
It would be wrong if the Mods did just coz they could and i don't think that they would,but sometimes it's nice to know why.
If you want an explanation because you genuinely don't know why a post was deemed unacceptable, or you need a clarification of the rules, you can always ask for one. I wouldn't expect that explanation to come automatically.

30 Aug 2004

Quote by CopsandNobbers
my two penneth ....
dangerous driving sucks , so do witchhunts

I agree. The only problem I see is that the definition of what is, or isn't dangerous is open to opinion and interpretation.

30 Aug 2004

Fair point Ice but to say that they can delete a post or lock it just because they can is wrong,and an abuse of authority!!

30 Aug 2004

Quote by Clare_Lincs
Fair point Ice but to say that they can delete a post or lock it just because they can is wrong,and an abuse of authority!!

Authority? Come on, it's a website, not the KGB. biggrin

30 Aug 2004

Authority figures or public servants, trying to please as many people as possible?
People see Authority figures, but when you are on the otherside of those buttons it really doesn`t feel that way.
Venusxxx

30 Aug 2004

Yeah alright possibly the wrong wording there,but you know what i meant,so i therefore put my point across correctly!!

30 Aug 2004

STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT!
I'm in tears - and they're not of laughter. It's not that serious. It's easy to pick up bruised feelings but the rules are the rules and the way the site is run is the way the site is run. If you don't like it ......
I'm genuinely not getting at anyone just the whole argument!!
I'm going to watch Ken Stott in thingy now!!

30 Aug 2004

Quote by Clare_Lincs
Fair point Ice but to say that they can delete a post or lock it just because they can is wrong,and an abuse of authority!!

i think you'll find that here at least, the reasons for locking a thread become apparent to all, long before the thread actually gets locked.
in fact it's often at a members request! and that isn't me arse licking or wanting to be a mod. i would run from this forum at a fair rate of knots if it was even offered to me! fortunately they'd never be so bloody daft! ;-)
i know full well when i have abused this forum! fortunately i've rarely had it so blatantly pointed out to me by seeing my thread get locked. i have asked for it at times, and it's been done!
neil x x x x ;-)

30 Aug 2004

Quote by Ice Pie
most times people are PMd to say why but not always.
:P

Not in my experience, and I've never expected an explanation.
When I get deleted I assume there's a reason - the reason may be an intelligent one or it may be "cos I can".
Either way, there's no point in arguing about it. He/She who has the delete button wins.
End of story.
It would be wrong if the Mods did just coz they could and i don't think that they would,but sometimes it's nice to know why.
If you want an explanation because you genuinely don't know why a post was deemed unacceptable, or you need a clarification of the rules, you can always ask for one. I wouldn't expect that explanation to come automatically.
Hi guys
just a quickie on this particular issue. Do you remember the posts from ladies saying they have had 300 replies to their ads and don't have time to contact them all to say 'thanks, but no thanks'? Ocassionally it gets like that on here. Remember we do this in our spare time and are busy throughout the Site in many different areas. Some issues take longer to deal with than others and at times we just have to react quickly and move on. If a post is deleted, it is often quite apparent why it should go. Apologies if you don't get an explanation, but if you do need to an explanation, I'm sure we can oblige. If you don't know which Mod did it, just pm whoever is online. They might have done it or can find out for you. But please bear with us, your one post may not be our highest priority at that time and you PM'ing us to ask may not raise its priority either.
Mal
wink

30 Aug 2004

Quote by neilinleeds
i think you'll find that here at least, the reasons for locking a thread become apparent to all, long before the thread actually gets locked. !
neil x x x x ;-)

I couldnt agree more,i was just saying that i didnt agree with it being done,just because they can thats all!