Pause for thought.......

8 May 2005

Scandal wrote in a recent thread about non swingers and it kind of struck a chord with me as being beautifully put and oh so true.
Now these are MY OWN opinions (while I am still allowed to hold them)
I've been sitting back for a while now and trying to remember how SH was when I first joined.
I don't seem to remember it being the bitter and twisted way it sometimes is now. Indeed if back then was now and I had watched from afar for a while, I may very well have not joined and that would have been my loss.
The current culture of baiting for the sake of it, the lack of discussable threads and as Scandal mentioned

Quote by Scandal
Everything from stupid comments about people's grammar and spelling to snidey comments about asylum seekers, people's marital status and morals, generalisations about what "we" are like and rage about some really, really petty issues.

is making the cafÃ© a place that is a lot less pleasant to spend time in or contribute too.
What difference does it make if someone doesn't know where to put a full stop or a comma? Does it mean that they have anything less to offer our community, are any less important to society or their lack of grammar should provide two pages of entertainment at their expense.
Could someone from the SH Punctuation Police let Mr Branson or Jackie Stewart or the millions of others who have overcome such problems know that "good for you, but you should see the imbecile who posts on our forum! Can't even use a bloody spell checker!!"
I wonder what reaction that may bring?
Does it make any difference if someone is married or not? If they are honest enough to declare it up front then you have a choice to meet with them or not but do you have the right to question their moral standing or go off on a finger waving exercise?
Now I fully understand that I may get flamed for this. But, I also know that I have been fortunate enough to have met SH regulars both in real life and on site, and have gotten to know quite a few of you and the type of people you are.
Hopefully therefore these comments will be seen in the way they are intended.
This is not a flounce either, there are enough of those. I have no intention of leaving SH nor do I want to besmirch it's good name but what I don't want to see, and I believe is in danger of happening, is for new members coming in and feeling the need to go along with the current climate of

Quote by Scandal
.......stupid comments about people's grammar and spelling to snidey comments about asylum seekers, people's marital status and morals, generalisations about what "we" are like and rage about some really, really petty issues.

the more that kind of attitude goes un challenged, the more it is seen as the norm and the more acceptable it becomes and thereafter we all suffer for it.
I've been on the site now since last October. I have people here who I would call dear friends and hopefully who know they can rely on me should the need arise. I have PM'd and chatted with many and again would hope that I could class most of them as friends I've yet to meet.
Recently we have seen less and less of the old guard. The ones who when I started had me howling with laughter and who's witty but intelligent threads allowed for newbies at the time, like me, to participate without the worry of being shot down in flames.
They are still here 'cause I've seen them, I just wonder if they feel that the site has changed for them too.
Perhaps it's just me who's witnessing this but I don't think so and whilst I wish I did, I don't have the answer to it. Maybe it's just natural evolution?
I'm all for evolution and I am all too aware that nothing ever stays the same but I do also believe that evolution should be for the better and I haven't seen much evidence of that recently.
As someone with a job which has pretty much kept me away from computers, this site or more importantly the people on it, have kept me engrossed for many a night, laughing out loud and allowing me an insight into the lives, trials and tribulations of others. It has given me a better understanding of a lot of things, not just sexual, and has opened doors to me for life experiences that were previously unimaginable and for that I am truly grateful.
I just hope that those members following on can be blessed in such a way.
The Laird

8 May 2005

I know exactly where you are coming from and hence my post on Friday. i'll be going through the responses to mine and see what improvements can be brought to the Site, but sometimes some replies are just so pedantic, it makes you cringe. At the same time we do need to keep a sense of humour, so a little pisstaking isn't all bad, just let's not hammer it!
Good post mate.
Mal
wink

8 May 2005

I wasn't sure at first that I should join this thread, but then thought that perhaps I should, as a relative newcommer, and one that has only just got involved in the social side of SH. I have found the site to be entertaining, and have like you laughed at things, and admired those with humour that is not only there in person, but also comes out in the written word.
I myself don't start too many threads, just three so far, as I feel that I am still learning, and that I wish to understand more about SH and it's inhabitants. In truth I still have some trepidation about starting threads, and would rather answer those already here.
I am having a great time here, and feel that you try to take your enjoyment where ever possible.
I thank you for your post, as it has made me think and as you say pause for thought. I hope that in time I may feel able to contribute freely, and gain as much pleasure from both the forum and from those that I meet, that you seem to have done.
Thank you the_Laird.
John
smile

8 May 2005

I agree with much of what you've said, and I have noticed a shift in the forum too but we've been here before and I think it's a cyclical thing and it will move on in due course.
There have been a tremendous number of new members registering of late.
I've noticed the absence of a lot of long established members from the Forum.
Pour another glass of finest single malt, sit back and let it run its course. It usually does!
:cheers: wink

8 May 2005

I agre totaly about the constantly recurring comments about spelling and grammar (well i would wodnt i?)It seems to be some peoples constant put down of others, something that makes them think they are clever and superior. For myself i never bother with much puctuation and grammar when im here cos ive had enough of it all day at work, when i come here i want to realax and as long as my posts are vaguely readable who cares???
As for sterotyping, well you would think a bunch of swingers could think beyond that wouldnt you? Sadly it seems not so like real likfe we have to battle on against the prdjudices of those with narrow minds and limited experience.
Horous's(hey see ive used an apostroopheee) remark about not feeling confident enough to start more threads really worries me and probably explains why so few threads are started nowadays. We need more people to start a diversity of threads otherwise the board will become increasingly borring
Perhps one way for the board to regain some of its past glory is if we all drop the sarcasm (well except when directed at Ice Pie who is a legitimate target and has skin like a rhino lol) and start being nice to each other again?

8 May 2005

Fantastic post Laird , it reflects alot of what i think about certain posts and comments made on here , just no fuckin need for some of them . I agree about a little piss taking Mal but quite alot of it is just nasty putdowns ,, i remember school bullies all to well and i sometimes see a bit of that going on here . Its a great site made up of great people , i just wish that some folk think before they join the lynch mob . Dino

8 May 2005

Quote by foxylady 123
Perhps one way for the board to regain some of its past glory is if we all drop the sarcasm (well except when directed at Ice Pie who is a legitimate target and has skin like a rhino lol) and start being nice to each other again?

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
Foxy, have you been taking lessons from Venus?
Excellent points raised in all the above ~ well put The Laird.
C x

8 May 2005

Quote by dambuster

What he said....erm....did....oh hell ya know what I mean ;)
Kitty xx

8 May 2005

At last, someone who is established in the old boys and girls club understanding that a (new) person to a site might just be a good friend you just do not know yet!

8 May 2005

Excellent post Sir.
I wholeheartedly agree with you and have not been posting much at all lately. I have a look every day but then leave quite quickly, somewhat saddened and nostalgic for the good old days of side-splitting banter and funny threads. I know I could start my own - I just choose not to.....but I do hope things liven up a bit.......(not that I could possibly leave).

8 May 2005

I sent a pm to a new member last week saying it may not be a good idea to start so many topics just yet , as the topics they started were getting the usual stamped on treatment by others . I told them to get known a bit first by cotributing to the more light hearted topics that are on the go .
point 1) i shouldnt have to say that to new members
point2) it doesnt give people cofidence to post new topics when there`s a chance they will get stamped on for doing so
I sometimes wonder if we have members here that spend their time trawling thru posts n topics just to stick the boot in and nothing else . ,,,,,i hope im wrong !

8 May 2005

A well thought out, written and delivered post that I absolutely hate the fact I am replying to it because of what it means. I've seen the cafe much worse tbh but it keeps on happening and everytime a few more regs take a step back and a few more newbies get scarred off. (sorry bout scaring the newbies, I did say I wouldnt bite them hard at first! ;) )
The quality posts are simply swamped with one line replies, quote in- quote in- quote in- quote in- quote in -quote in -quote posts, two people having a public PM session, psudeo mods, less than perfect peeps having a bitch n moan, and there is no-one bouncing off each other with the light hearted banter.
The thought about or comical responses are being lost in the sea of folk so eager to reply to a thread to get their post count up that by the time you have got to it, alas it has sunk to page four and the comment you want to bounce off was on page 2 of the now 12page thread of shite. Post count stands for nothing here on its own, it's always considered with the date you joined, which kind of makes the "race to 1000 squad" efforts a little bit pointless. dunno

The other thing is the eagerness to wrap each post into a little package neatly with no titbits left dangling for someone else to come along and exploit. Loads of things were written with lots of loose ends in it so someone else could pick up and carry on therefore including more people than just a list of folk replying.
The art of hijack is dying off too <sniff> <sigh> Where are we going to keep Davej sir , Mr. Inleeds and (like the promotion from hijack monkey boy to a doc? ;) ) when the summer arrives and the poilce come looking for the gold....... fish ??? Hmmm confused

Gem. x

8 May 2005

Being a newbie myself I have found that when reading threads it starts all well and good then the topic of the thread gets lots in a mass of quote quote quote and personnal messages and chats.
At first this did put me off a bit as I felt that if I entered a comment. I wouldn't even get noticed due to not being known or not even knowing what the quote quote quotes are about.
In time I have accepted it a little bit because As I am new I don't want to piss anyone and come across a moaner and inturn mess up my chances of getting to meet you crazy guys..
Roni B xx

8 May 2005

De Ja` Vous

Quote by mal609
... I do understand the type of posts you are referring to. However, something to think about is not what effect it has on the individual poster, but the overall effect it has on the Forum as a whole. One of the reasons people comment about the standard of posts is in some cases to raise the standards of the poster. It's not a case of anyone can post anything. It makes it difficult to read if they can't be bothered to spell check, punctuate or speak in textspeak. If they post something stupid, then by pointing out how stupid it is, might help them post more sensibly and actually achieve what they wanted in the first place! And no point saying if it's not for you, don't read it, I don't have a choice, even if you do. But for normal members, why should they be put off reading any posts, just so someone can post badly? If new members or lurkers saw loads and loads of stupid 'I wanna shag now' posts, they would think that's the right way to post on means they will then copy that style or, if they are more sensible already, they may decide this isn't for them and we lose a potentially good member for the sake of protecting the rights of an idiot to post what he likes.
Mal

Mal as always playing the devils donkey wink

http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/31122.html
sorry meant to link to polo ladys thread

8 May 2005

Well said The Laird. I think there is probably a large silent majority that agrees with you.

Quote by hornyred and dino
I sometimes wonder if we have members here that spend their time trawling thru posts n topics just to stick the boot in and nothing else . ,,,,,i hope im wrong !

Unfortunately I don't think you are wrong. However, they don't trawl through every thread, just the ones started by newbies or people that aren't well known on the forum. Typical bully-boy tactics.

8 May 2005

I noticed that there has been a lot of 'the search button is your friend' advice, which is designed to kill off a thread. This tends to convey the feeling that its all been done before and the thread is redundant. I think many people react by giving up, or taking up inane small talk.
I think the threads should be allowed to run as it involves new people at the time and place they are available, they are allowed to contribute and develop associations through the thread. They can't do this by taking up an old thread. Its just like normal conversation really, everybody feels they must have their say, in front of those who are present, not to statues and paintings of prevous contributors.

8 May 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
I noticed that there has been a lot of 'the search button is your friend' advice, which is designed to kill off a thread. This tends to convey the feeling that its all been done before and the thread is redundant. I think many people react by giving up, or taking up inane small talk.
I think the threads should be allowed to run as it involves new people at the time and place they are available, they are allowed to contribute and develop associations through the thread. They can't do this by taking up an old thread. Its just like normal conversation really, everybody feels they must have their say, in front of those who are present, not to statues and paintings of prevous contributors.

I think you have a valid point here. smile

8 May 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
I noticed that there has been a lot of 'the search button is your friend' advice, which is designed to kill off a thread. I think the threads should be allowed to run as it involves new people at the time and place they are available, they are allowed to contribute and develop associations through the thread. They can't do this by taking up an old thread. Its just like normal conversation really, everybody feels they must have their say, in front of those who are present, not to statues and paintings of prevous contributors.

Well said duncan, I do agree. Who could be bothered searching through so many pages?
If I see a thread about something done before, that I have posted on, I just don't bother with it. But others may find it enjoyable, people who have only been around for a week, say, and who are still finding their feet. Certain topics attract constant repetition because they are popular subjects. How many football conversations wil be going on in a pub at any time? Should we all join the same conversation?

8 May 2005

well said.
ive never and i dont think ill ever post a thread in the cafe for fear of being shouted down
or haveing the piss taken out of me.
i do answer on threads but thats all ill do.
maybe oneday i might pluck up the courage to post a thread but not just yet. smile

8 May 2005

Quote by cuddly-catlin
well said.
ive never and i dont think ill ever post a thread in the cafe for fear of being shouted down
or haveing the piss taken out of me.
i do answer on threads but thats all ill do.
maybe oneday i might pluck up the courage to post a thread but not just yet.

8 May 2005

laird great post..... i agree so much.. ok i might not be best speller... and i do use text words alot... maybe it is being lazy... but its down to the person how they write...and if people moan about it.. sorry but they need to get out more...
sort of agree what northwest has just said about how some people write this has been done before,then do the "o this was done before" and then shows a thread what was done 6 months ago...
if people are new they aint going to of seen that topic..its a site with many members many comments are going to be done before.
if u dont like what they saying then dont write on it.. simple as.... ok mods have the right to say this tread going no where.. lock it,cause its true silly fights can come of it.... but members whos been it on it four months.a year. that dont make you better then new people.
yes its a swinging site... everybody was new once.. yes little jokes aint that bad..i agree, but so piss me of when i see people say this was done then.. so what.. its being done again for people who never had the chance to see it... its like saying to someone at work whos your fav girls aloud and them saying to you..ive been ask this before then tell u the same story they told george a year go.. ok maybe not really the same..but sort of the same...
sorry if the spelling bad . or not useing the cap lock.. bad kinkyluton
your fav girls aloud ?

8 May 2005

Quote by Calista
well said.
ive never and i dont think ill ever post a thread in the cafe for fear of being shouted down
or haveing the piss taken out of me.
i do answer on threads but thats all ill do.
maybe oneday i might pluck up the courage to post a thread but not just yet.

That is so tragic to hear cuddly-catlin .... genuinely it is.
It makes me feel so sad that there are people out there scared to post because of the so called "fun" that others have, it's tantamount to bullying and no one should feel apprehension to post something on a public forum.
Calista x
There is a fair amount of belittleing(?) and bullying with newbies and others, but I feel a lot is unintended intimidation by those already familiar and friendly with others. For some newbies, their first impressions could be that it's all very clique(?) and by viewing posts, that those who try and start topics that might have been done before, but not to their knowledge, that they'll be berated and intimidated for trying to join in by starting discussions. Apologies if you're lost so far.
It's like any other social scene, there'll always be plenty of people who know each other well, get on like the good mates they are and who will tend to talk amongst themselves rather than to the new people.
That said, there are a lot of the long standing members (no jokes please biggrin

) who are really friendly and encourage others to join in. I'm also not generalising, or pointing fingers or grouping people either (apart from old and new).
Thought I'd get my say in, as I seem to do it everywhere else lol

8 May 2005

Quote by kinkyluton
laird great post..... i agree so much.. ok i might not be best speller... and i do use text words alot... maybe it is being lazy... but its down to the person how they write...and if people moan about it.. sorry but they need to get out more...
sort of agree what northwest has just said about how some people write this has been done before,then do the "o this was done before" and then shows a thread what was done 6 months ago...
if people are new they aint going to of seen that topic..its a site with many members many comments are going to be done before.
if u dont like what they saying then dont write on it.. simple as.... ok mods have the right to say this tread going no where.. lock it,cause its true silly fights can come of it.... but members whos been it on it four months.a year. that dont make you better then new people.
yes its a swinging site... everybody was new once.. yes little jokes aint that bad..i agree, but so piss me of when i see people say this was done then.. so what.. its being done again for people who never had the chance to see it... its like saying to someone at work whos your fav girls aloud and them saying to you..ive been ask this before then tell u the same story they told george a year go.. ok maybe not really the same..but sort of the same...
sorry if the spelling bad . or not useing the cap lock.. bad kinkyluton
your fav girls aloud ?

What they said too

8 May 2005

I see a lot of "thats been done before" the subject may have been done but with new people coming are there views on the subject not valid? and even if it has been "done before" and lots have contributed, peoples opinions can change can't they?

8 May 2005

In honnor of another who has jumped ship...

Quote by Ice Pie
No, this can't be for real. Is there an agent provacateuse in the house? ;)

Gem. x

8 May 2005

Quote by the_Laird
Recently we have seen less and less of the old guard.
The Laird

Guilty as charged.
True, I'm working now, and wouldn't post as much anyway, but I backed off before work started, and I'm backing off still now. I spend ages trying to log in (bad connection) and when I do, I wonder why I bothered, then I check my PM box, smile, and that's what keeps me here, not the 'entertaining' spite which is vomited up on the main board on a daily basis. I can honestly say that it's not just a personal assumption when I state that many others have also retreated to their PM boxes. It's fact. I loved coming to SH to unwind, and be myself. I miss that.

Quote by Eager
I agree with much of what you've said, and I have noticed a shift in the forum too but we've been here before and I think it's a cyclical thing and it will move on in due course.

Usually it is, and it used to fascinate me. Now, however, it's been going on for long enough to become an established trend. When the mods start feeling the need to make sincere heartfelt posts on the matter, then we should all be sitting up and taking notice, for they more than anyone are familiar when cyclic trends and are unlikely to comment, or feel the need to fade into the background if that is all it is. Mark has said on more than one occasison that it is the people who make the site, we all set the tone, this is out of the mods hands, and I should imagine they must be sitting back in despair when they work so hard to maintain a site that many people choose to fill with poison. I, and others, are done trying to set a nicer tone in the face of adversity. Hopefully, with some of the latest posts on the subject, the tide will finally turn.
To those of you who find this constant harping at people entertaining; GET A LIFE FFS! Take up knitting, pottery, long walks, anything, the site would be much richer for it, and be worried. Why do you do it? I thought I was sad when I was bored shitless, and spamming the board with complex discussion after complex discussion. I can understand the need to make your own entertainment when life in the real world is all too hard to find. I totally get the need to be stimulated, but for fucks sake why choose spite, harrassment, trampling over others in order to get noticed and seek approval from like-minded people? What a cop out. Is it because you simply can't be arsed to put the effort into thinking up more valuable stimulation, or is it simply because you are too thick to know how? Really, I'd be interested to know. Take a good long hard look at yourselves and ask yourselves what is so lacking in your lives that falling back on this kind of behaviour is necessary.

Quote by northwest-cpl
Well said The Laird. I think there is probably a large silent majority that agrees with you.

Never could suss out that whole 'silent' thingamabob. dunno

:mrgreen:
Venusxxx

8 May 2005

I think the debate going on here, and the comments being made, reflect that in fact SH Towers is functioning 100% ok.
Of course certain threads will appear cliquey to some, irrespective of whether it was posted by an old lag or a new member. I've noticed cliqueyness at times in relation to both old and new members and sometimes I'm involved in a cliquey thread. That's life!
I think this is all just a reflection of the wider world but I've said it before and I'll beg your indulgence and say it again, the majority of the successful activity on this site takes place behind the scenes between people who have come on here, got to be known and then gone on to make friends with others. Well, for me that's what's happened. I know that for others who are only looking for instant gratification with strangers it can work too. However, at the end of the day, how successfully the site works for you will depend on you and how much effort you put into it and what you want out of it.
I'm probably getting away from the point a bit..................erm........................ redface

ops: so to recap, I think it reflects life in the broader world in microcosm, and I think that's healthy providing debate takes place alongside the ups and downs.
I can honestly say that I've never had a problem with anyone here[ and I can't say that I've noticed any particular unpleasantness towards anyone. Some sarcasm at times but usually merited, but then I don't have the time to read the majority of the threads.
Think I'll go now before I start to sound too serious! wink

8 May 2005

Quote by Eagerslut9
I think the debate going on here, and the comments being made, reflect that in fact SH Towers is functioning 100% ok.

There has been debates on this latest 'trend' months ago. It changed nothing. People thought about it, scratched their chins, and then decided they were having too much fun being bitches.

Think I'll go now before I start to sound too serious!

Yes, get back in your box! :wink:
actually that was a really well thought-out post, but I don't do nice :uhoh:
Venusxxx

8 May 2005

Its just the internet !
:shock: