Political Correctness vs Freedom of Speech

8 Sep 2005

We are all adults on this site (i hope lol

) and as such we enjoy a certain level of freedom offered and granted us by this fine country in which we reside yes???
However, recent developments by the EU and other factions within parliament, both home and abroad seem intent on eleviating us from this right. I really dont want to sound like im getting on my soap box or taking the moral high ground, but to be told that the word BRAINSTORMING is no longer politically correct as it "excludes and alienates the more intellectualy challenged within society" is sheer lunacy.
Many of the words i (and am sure a multitude of other regular forum users) grew up with have now become obselete due to the meteoric rise in the "need to be more socially and politically tolerant and tactfull"
i mean, everyday words such as "blackboard" "handicapped" and "deaf" have been politically metomorphosised into "chalkboards" "disabled" and "hearing impaired". Now before i recieve a barrage of abuse or reprimands from anybody on the site, i would like to point out that i am categorically NOT racist,sexist,ageist, or any other of the plethora of "ist" words that have been invented for those of us who are deemed politically incorrect for our choice of words.
i know there are a few teachers (Mrs Freckledbird??) amongst the SHeaven ranks and would appreciate their viewpoint on how they have had to change their use of language to accomodate these changes, or anybody else who has encountered this, in the workplace for example..................
PS please dont pick up any of my spelling mistakes Freckledbird redface

8 Sep 2005

You had actually proceeded quite well without any offensive remarks.
However the classic 'I'm not racist but'.............................

8 Sep 2005

Quote by steanrachy
i mean, everyday words such as "blackboard" "handicapped" and "deaf" have been politically metomorphosised into "chalkboards" "disabled" and "hearing impaired". Now before i recieve a barrage of abuse or reprimands from anybody on the site, i would like to point out that i am categorically NOT racist,sexist,ageist, or any other of the plethora of "ist" words that have been invented for those of us who are deemed politically incorrect for our choice of words.
:

could you please point me out the direction of the BUT?? not the one that is otherwise called arse,bum,anus etc i can find that by myself, however i seem to have had difficulty finding it in my thread duncan,
your help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.....

8 Sep 2005

You are correct, you didn't use the word but.
However the line 'Im not racist', has an unfortunate stigma attached to it.

8 Sep 2005

Quote by steanrachy
We are all adults on this site (i hope ) and as such we enjoy a certain level of freedom offered and granted us by this fine country in which we reside yes???
However, recent developments by the EU and other factions within parliament, both home and abroad seem intent on eleviating us from this right. I really dont want to sound like im getting on my soap box or taking the moral high ground, but to be told that the word BRAINSTORMING is no longer politically correct as it "excludes and alienates the more intellectualy challenged within society" is sheer lunacy.
Many of the words i (and am sure a multitude of other regular forum users) grew up with have now become obselete due to the meteoric rise in the "need to be more socially and politically tolerant and tactfull"
i mean, everyday words such as "blackboard" "handicapped" and "deaf" have been politically metomorphosised into "chalkboards" "disabled" and "hearing impaired". Now before i recieve a barrage of abuse or reprimands from anybody on the site, i would like to point out that i am categorically NOT racist,sexist,ageist, or any other of the plethora of "ist" words that have been invented for those of us who are deemed politically incorrect for our choice of words.
i know there are a few teachers (Mrs Freckledbird??) amongst the SHeaven ranks and would appreciate their viewpoint on how they have had to change their use of language to accomodate these changes, or anybody else who has encountered this, in the workplace for example..................
PS please dont pick up any of my spelling mistakes Freckledbird

I do agree with you, at least in part. Whilst I think it is important to consider what we say and how it might offend people of other ethnicities or disabilities etc etc, this type of thinking does go too far. The word "blackboard" for example, adequately describes a board that is black..... errr...... where's the racism there? Incidentally, at my work we have white boards..... we have always called them white boards and there are no plans to change their name so something less offensive to white mice confused

Questioning the use of the word "brainstorm" is also very silly...... I mean, thick people could also brainstorm could they not, albeit at a very shallow level :lol2: However, I am glad that words have changed to refer to disabled people. The word "spastic" for example always had distasteful conotations, yet it used to be in common useage.

8 Sep 2005

Well I remember another famous one, where a politician addressing the chiefs of Police said about getting down to the 'Nitty Gritty'. He was quickly told that this was a banned word in the force. Apparently it was used to describe the bits left on slave ships in the 18th century, and is thus offensive to black people. Now I am all for tolerance, but when you need a masters degree in ancient english to even know that somthing should offend you, then I think we are going too far.
I understand people in minorities get abused due to their race. However I think some people are on an active search for things to be offended by. Obvious name calling, physical abuse, this is what we want to stop. Yet we spend time researching the history of common phrases, whose meanings have changed now, to prove we should not use them anymore dunno

At the end of the day, to be different will attract scum to you. I am white, middle class, english. Yet I have been racially abused and blackmailed, I have been attacked in the street, and hospitalised a couple of times. I have been stopped and searched by the Police on more than one occasion. Why is this? The only thing I can think of is I am tall, and non violent, and some see this as 'victim'. The Police I let off, they just doing their jobs and spotting someone more than once prob puts them on your radar, even if it is because their head is sticking out of the crowd. Why the last paragraph, really for everyone else who is having a bad time of it, you have company and sympathy from the most unlikely seeming sides....

Quote by bluexxx
However, I am glad that words have changed to refer to disabled people. The word "spastic" for example always had distasteful conotations, yet it used to be in common useage.

You can't win though Blue, they now call people 'scopies'

8 Sep 2005

Another of these Politically Correct nonsenses occurred the other week when I asked for a Black Coffee and was told that was an inappropriate and possibly racist term and that I should ask for either coffee with milk or coffee without,
WTF is that all about?

8 Sep 2005

Many words begin their obsessive and unfortunate translation through the press. Currently we have chavs and asbos. All treated with derision, contempt and abusive humour. In a few years they will be considered offensive and people will be running to their lawyers and looking for compensation.
So we now have a huge vocabulary of word which we cannot use. Which we replace with slang which has not yet been qualified to be either acceptable or affensive.
You need to look at the Oxford dictionary of Slang to see how many words and expressions have been lost.
Its a blast.

8 Sep 2005

Quote by tallnhairy
Well I remember another famous one, where a politician addressing the chiefs of Police said about getting down to the 'Nitty Gritty'. He was quickly told that this was a banned word in the force. Apparently it was used to describe the bits left on slave ships in the 18th century, and is thus offensive to black people. Now I am all for tolerance, but when you need a masters degree in ancient english to even know that somthing should offend you, then I think we are going too far.

To compound the nonsense it seems quite likely that nitty gritty has nothing whatsoever to do with slave ships:
On the origins of "nitty-gritty": Dr Jonathan Lighter, in the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, records the first example from 1956: "You'll find nobody comes down to the nitty-gritty when it calls for namin' things for what they are". As it is here fully formed, and has the now customary sense of the fundamental issues, the heart of the matter, or the most important aspects of some situation, it had by then probably already been in use for some while (I know of two people who claim to have come across it in the 1920s). But it is inconceivable that it should have been around since slave-ship days without somebody writing it down. (extract from the "World Wide Words" site)

8 Sep 2005

Interesting topic!!
I had to tackle someone for using a very inappropriate joke about the Special Olympics a while ago. I was absolutely stunned that he deemed it fit for repeating these days. When I challenged him on it, he proceeded to complain to me about a joke someone else had told about a lisping midget (you prob know it) - I couldn't seem to get him to understand that a lisping midget (or little person as it should have been according to him) asking a man in a wood to show him a horse is a highly far fetched scenario and really not terribly offensive whilst referring to participants in the Special Olympics as retards is beyond ignorance.
This was several days ago and I still find it hard to believe I had that conversation rolleyes

So with regard to political correctness, some of it is very posiitve, much of it is madness - but in reality, isn't it just a fancy way of saying "good manners"?

8 Sep 2005

Quote by Serendipity
So with regard to political correctness, some of it is very posiitve, much of it is madness - but in reality, isn't it just a fancy way of saying "good manners"?

well said Serendipity, the amount of words i have found to be not "PC" lately during my day to day affairs is getting beyond a joke, i come into contact with many different sections of the community and have found that some people with disabilities (or the less bodily abled to be PC) find that these terms are more offensive and highlight or attract MORE attention to them.
The need to be more considerate has never been more prevelant than it is today but to criticise people for their choice of words is not only verging on the ridiculous but is slowly consuming our right to free speech and opinion.
I do suppose however there will always be a small minority who abuse this right and seem immune to the fact that there obvious and intended jokes/comical social prose do actually cause offence.

8 Sep 2005

I think the idea of free speech in the UK is rather illusory, there is in fact no such thing. Everyone is free to say whatever they like except for that which runs contrary to generally received wisdom. The idea that people are able to freely argue ideas which the majority would find repellant seems long dead in a society so well "defended" by The Sun and Daily Mail. In a way today's society is not that different from that in the time of Copernicius who was ostracised for daring to argue that the earth orbited the sun rather than vice versa (the generally received wisdom of the day). I don't think this is an entirely positive development.

8 Sep 2005

the Earth revolves around the Sun?? how proposterous bucsfuncpl, where on earth did you hear that drivvle?? lol

:lol: :lol: :lol:

8 Sep 2005

To be honest, I haven't had to modify my language at all in the classroom, because I've only been teaching for a few years and the culture at university was as you describe Steanrachy. At the time it seemed a bit odd, but it's just a different word for some things. Language changes over time anyway; there are archaic words which at one time would have seemed 'everyday' and which have changed over time. To the people for whom they were 'everyday', the 'modern' words which replaced them, must have been viewed in much the same way as you view 'thought showers', 'chalkboards' and such.

8 Sep 2005

What about the term "rule of thumb"? How offensive is that? confused

8 Sep 2005

i know blue iv just taken a measurement and id say i must be the exception that disproves the rule........ that is unless i have a very large thumb :thumbup: confused

8 Sep 2005

Don't know is it offensive?

8 Sep 2005

Quote by bluexxx
What about the term "rule of thumb"? How offensive is that?

three toed slothes ain't happy about it.

8 Sep 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
Don't know is it offensive?

If someone needs to explain why... hope not smile

8 Sep 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
Don't know is it offensive?

Well, it could be for those who believe in political correctness in extremes.
Apparently in Old English law a man was allowed to beat his wife with a stick provided that the stick was no thicker than his thumb.
Thus it could be argued that saying "rule of thumb" supports domestic violence.
Total bollocks obviously, but just an example of how terms we use in everyday life had a more sinister history.
I don't even know how true it is, just something I was taught as an undergrad confused

As you were folks :huh:

8 Sep 2005

Quote by tallnhairy
Well I remember another famous one, where a politician addressing the chiefs of Police said about getting down to the 'Nitty Gritty'. He was quickly told that this was a banned word in the force. Apparently it was used to describe the bits left on slave ships in the 18th century, and is thus offensive to black people. Now I am all for tolerance, but when you need a masters degree in ancient english to even know that somthing should offend you, then I think we are going too far.
I understand people in minorities get abused due to their race. However I think some people are on an active search for things to be offended by. Obvious name calling, physical abuse, this is what we want to stop. Yet we spend time researching the history of common phrases, whose meanings have changed now, to prove we should not use them anymore

Couldn't agree more.
I'd heard that the 'nitty-gritty' offence was totally spurious as well. If you're going to correct others politically, it is advisable to be correct innit?

8 Sep 2005

Yeah, it's a bit of a tricky one this....
From a kind of "outside looking in" I think there are a few things that have bearing on the whole issue - social/class/surroundings/beliefs.
One thing I really noticed is that when I lived in Basingstoke, the non PC jokes were accepted as the norm - it was considered "OK" to be sexist/racist/ageist/any other ist that you can apply.
Wolverhampton is a very very multicultural city - there are people from just about every walk of life there, and I started to find the really "ist" jokes pretty offensive.
I'm actually very proud to have a huge group of friends from many of the different communities - I have a friend that's a devoted Christian, one that's gay, one's a Sikh (and I've heard some of the comments he gets on the street - it's just plain not nice)....I guess what I'm driving at is you do have to accept that the population is now made up of many different groups and beliefs, and that is a change from 30, 40, 50 years ago - but it isn't going to change back. If the demographic sands are constantly shifting, I guess we've got to be prepared to retune our own thoughts too.....kind of either go with the tide, or get swept along in it anyways.
However! The flip side to my coin is this - I don't believe we should change everything on a whim! A blackboard is exactly that. A black sheep "does exactly what it says on the tin".
The irony of it is, by changing all these thing, I reckon we stand to offend more of the people we were trying to appease to begin with!
So, I guess that's a pretty long winded way of saying that I kind of sit on the fence a bit - I think the message for me is really just to be aware of whats happening around you, accept it and adapt to it.
Hope I haven't offended anyone!!

8 Sep 2005

i understand where your coming from,
however the boring bit is comming now,
brainstorming is actually a medical term used for a condition within the brain, aparently it is a distressing thing to happen. i was informed of this while at uni 2 years ago , we had to refer to it as mind mapping when we were pulling ideas together.
handicap was changed due to the connetations of the original term cap in hand, disabled people, were consider as begging so the label was changed.
i think ricky jervas, with his stand up called politics summs it up so well.
recently i had to call the RNIB to ask them about a support group for a tenant i was visiting,
me: hi i wonder if you can help me? i'm supporting a tenant who is blind and would like to attend the day group held in his village
RNIB LADY : i think you find my dear its offensive to refer to him as blind
me: but he is blind
RNIB LADY: the term your looking for is visually impaired, its wrong to use the label blind
me: oh well you best change your bloody agency name then cuse if im not mistaken its the ROYAL NATIONAL INSTUTUTE FOR THE BLIND.
XX fem xxx

8 Sep 2005

Serendipity wrote:

I had to tackle someone for using a very inappropriate joke about the Special Olympics a while ago. I was absolutely stunned that he deemed it fit for repeating these days. When I challenged him on it, he proceeded to complain to me about a joke someone else had told about a lisping midget (you prob know it) - I couldn't seem to get him to understand that a lisping midget (or little person as it should have been according to him) asking a man in a wood to show him a horse is a highly far fetched scenario and really not terribly offensive whilst referring to participants in the Special Olympics as retards is beyond ignorance.

I think people in general have lost their sense of humour. After all, a joke is a joke and if you choose to be offended by a 'joke' then that's your problem. If you overhear someone telling a mate a joke then it's none of your business. I think the PC brigade have gone mad.

8 Sep 2005

Quote by bluexxx
Apparently in Old English law a man was allowed to beat his wife with a stick provided that the stick was no thicker than his thumb.
Thus it could be argued that saying "rule of thumb" supports domestic violence.
I don't even know how true it is?

Actually it is quite true, evolution backs it up. A female will choose a partner on desirability and chances of survival of the genes from a male partner. In the Middle Ages, there were very thicked thumbed men, sizes vary but the average thumb was the size of a melon.
Obviously when this "rule of thumb" was brought in and made Law, these fellas with the Melon-sized thumbs stood no chance of getting a wife.... the women took one look at the opposable digit, thought " fuck the size of that stick I am going to be beaten with!" And sharpish like, they all married skinny thumbed blokes.... and had skinny thumbed babies... and the Melon- thumbs died out.....
There was even spam parchment, " reduce the size of your thumbs, and get laid"... but they never worked.
i haven't even been drinking!

8 Sep 2005

Use of such phrases results in their explanation.
However the explanation is illustrated with a scenario of various stories about abuse, deprevation and a raft of 'things that happened to other people a long time ago'. Oddly and conveniently brought back into the 'imagination ' for the purpose of education.
Maybe. Or is it just a set of values and beliefs which still persist. Although they do not appear to be practised, their character is kept alive by education.

8 Sep 2005

Quote by Tommi
I think people in general have lost their sense of humour. After all, a joke is a joke and if you choose to be offended by a 'joke' then that's your problem. If you overhear someone telling a mate a joke then it's none of your business. I think the PC brigade have gone mad.

I didn't say that I'd overheard someone telling a joke to mate, the situation was very much my business however, even if it hadn't been some "jokes" are far more malicious than they are funny sad

8 Sep 2005

Well if you want Freedom of Speech, take a listen to Kevin "Bloody" Wilson, an ozzie singing comedian who is far from PC.
I have been to one of his shows, when he was over year a couple of years ago on tour and the one thing I can without any hesitation is that as soon as you walk through the door you can feel the Political Correctness stopping at the door and going no further.

8 Sep 2005

Quote by steanrachy
However, recent developments by the EU and other factions within parliament, both home and abroad seem intent on eleviating us from this right. I really dont want to sound like im getting on my soap box or taking the moral high ground, but to be told that the word BRAINSTORMING is no longer politically correct as it "excludes and alienates the more intellectualy challenged within society" is sheer lunacy.

Eh ?!? WTF?!? :shock:
Surely the word Brainstroming could only insult those without a brain to storm. As far as I'm aware having a brain is kind of essential which means there isn't anyone to be offended!
Les x

8 Sep 2005

The fact that Kevin Wilson, Bernard Manning etc can derive a living from basic abuse, shows how it has become a commodity.