prince harry

27 Apr 2007

Quote by duncanlondon
I don't think any of this matters a jot to the Afghani or other warriors. His mission is to wipe out all infidels regardless of who or what they are.
Unless anyone can give us a breakdown of the psyche of such an adversary?

easy! posting a video of prince harry having his head chopped off with a carving knife will get loads more coverage than any other rank and file soldier, and give heart to all those who want to strike a blow at the very heart of the powers that be.
imagine the power holding the second in line to the throne will give them. not just in terms of western media coverage, but in terms of the power relationships among those insurgents who didn't manage to get hold of him. within their audience, they will gain in power thanks to their 'prowess'. don't think we want to be empowering these types really, do we? confused

neil x x x ;)

27 Apr 2007

Quote by neilinleeds
imagine the power holding the second in line to the throne will give them.
neil x x x ;)

Third in line hun.
Sorry bolt

Louise xx

27 Apr 2007

I really do think if he goes he will be putting the lives of not only his own regiment at even more uneccesary risk than they are already in, but that of all the other British soldiers.
It will be all over the news if he does go, and of course him being there is going to tempt the enemy to attack with even more frequency and ferocity.
All that quite aside from the other two moral dilemas - should our troops be there in the first place, and should we even still have a Royal Family anyway?

27 Apr 2007

Quote by neilinleeds
I don't think any of this matters a jot to the Afghani or other warriors. His mission is to wipe out all infidels regardless of who or what they are.
Unless anyone can give us a breakdown of the psyche of such an adversary?

easy! posting a video of prince harry having his head chopped off with a carving knife will get loads more coverage than any other rank and file soldier, and give heart to all those who want to strike a blow at the very heart of the powers that be.
imagine the power holding the second in line to the throne will give them. not just in terms of western media coverage, but in terms of the power relationships among those insurgents who didn't manage to get hold of him. within their audience, they will gain in power thanks to their 'prowess'. don't think we want to be empowering these types really, do we? confused

neil x x x ;)
Its arguable I suppose; but I don't know how they think. Their 'struggle' will continue as it has done for a long time.

27 Apr 2007

Quote by neilinleeds
if he wants to risk his life, fair enough. the survivability of the 11 men under him should surely be a consideration though. yep, they all signed up for that risk when they joined the regimemnt, but clearly the risk to them is massively increased by his presence. i personally wouldn't feel happy bearing the responsibility for that, though i've never been a soldier, so my opinion might not amount to a hill of beans.

I've been a soldier.
My official military "trade" was Commander AFV. Although he (Prince boy) will actually be Troop Leader, he will also fill the role of Commander AFV (albeit under guidance from very experienced Gunner and Driver - if indeed they are 'ordinary' members of the regiment)
Your opinion, Neil, is as valid as anyone's.
Funny really - this reminds me NiL of my very first post on SH wink

I've also worked with, under, for and around members of Royal families (not ours) with all the fuck ups that the Special Branch entourage brings with them.
The main point I'd like to address to Nil, is the attitude of the other officers and soldiers (there's a difference) to having Harry serve in theirregiment.
But before I do, I will admit that like most ex-servicemen, I believe my generation did better than previous or present generations redface

So I suppose I'd better start with -
In my day . . . . . . . . . rolleyes

From a rank and file soldier point of view, Harry may well not be viewed the same as any other young Rupert, but will almost certainly be treated in the same way as other Ruperts. Possibly 'worse'
And I'm very certain that his crew/troop will have had ample opportunity to be moved/transferred to other vehicles/troops or even to other squadrons. By the same token, there will have been no shortage of genuine volunteers to serve with/under him.
I'm sure that attitude will be carried forward into whatever role/activity his regiment finds itself.
Should Royals be accepted to the active service list ?
I don't know. I'm happy to leave that sort of discussion/decision to those with higher "status" than I.
Should Royals serve in the same way, in the same theatres along side everyone else ?
Damn right they should.
Boy is soldier (officer)
Soldier fight wars and "wars"
Soldiers live and die.
He will live or die.
If he lives, he'll get (at least) a campaign medal.
As will everyone.
If he dies, he'll be honoured, and mourned.
As will everyone.
Specific target ????
Granted, he will undoubtedly be at the very top top of the "specific target" list.
But it will be quite a long list.

27 Apr 2007

Funny really - this reminds me NiL of my very first post on SH

i remember it well! redface

;)

And I'm very certain that his crew/troop will have had ample opportunity to be moved/transferred to other vehicles/troops or even to other squadrons. By the same token, there will have been no shortage of genuine volunteers to serve with/under him.

fair enough dammy. if they have the chance to get out from under him, ok. if they can equally opt into his command, that's their choice.
what concerns me is that, as reported in the papers i've read today, that the attack on the scimitar that saw 2 members of his regiment killed a week or so ago was some kinda dry run, and they achieved what they set out to do. i'm not sure their acquisition of shaped charges capable of penetrating a Challenger is just coincidence either? they've made their intentions known.
seems to me that harry's desire to command out there is maybe not so much motivated by concern for the troops under his command, which i think should be foremost in his mind, as a concern to 'prove' his sense of duty as a royal. if ego is involved in any way, then his decision is suspect.
tough decision i know, and i'm not being disparaging here in any way. just there's a possible conflict of interest here. the greater good must take precedence over his desire i think? i don't think his presence serves that greater good.
neil x x x ;)

27 Apr 2007

Quote by Gothic-punk
I really do think if he goes he will be putting the lives of not only his own regiment at even more uneccesary risk than they are already in, but that of all the other British soldiers.
It will be all over the news if he does go, and of course him being there is going to tempt the enemy to attack with even more frequency and ferocity.
All that quite aside from the other two moral dilemas - should our troops be there in the first place, and should we even still have a Royal Family anyway?

Should our troops be there? In the first place yes we should have been, but Mags found it hard work get the US along as far as she did. The second war, no, Iraq was no threat. Can we leave now? No, it would be an even bigger mess than it is now.
Should Harry go? Yes. For no other reason than because he is part of the unit. The unit is all, the unit is family, the unit is pride. To start treating one member differently would undermine the whole.
Would harry stay in the army if he could not go? I do not think he is just playing soldier.
Should we have a Royal Family? The last King that went to war abroad, lied to the people, Parliament and the privy council. Then introduced laws to restrict English Freedom Lost His Head. So far the PM is still with us. Lying to the people, and Parliament, restricting the right of trial in Britain. Perhaps we need a stronger Royal Family to protect us form the PM.

27 Apr 2007

Quote by neilinleeds
seems to me that harry's desire to command out there is maybe not so much motivated by concern for the troops under his command, which i think should be foremost in his mind, as a concern to 'prove' his sense of duty as a royal. if ego is involved in any way, then his decision is suspect.

I found that "these people" are sometimes brow beaten until they are almost forced to do some things.
"It's expected of them"
What would never fail to impress me is when an individual is put in a position they would not normally choose to be in, but make a concious and obvious decision to "make the best of it" and put their all into it.
The reason to motivation will always be subject to opinion, and the very best thing about opinions is that they differ.
Foremost in his mind ?
Kill/Protect, or die trying.
wink

27 Apr 2007

Quote by neilinleeds
seems to me that Harry's desire to command out there is maybe not so much motivated by concern for the troops under his command, which i think should be foremost in his mind,

The foremost thing in an commanders mind is to complete the mission. If that means getting your own troops killed so be it. To do nothing more than protect your own troops is the best way to get them killed. Harry's job will be to collect information. If he can do that without loss, good. If he can not do it, then save his troops he must. Somewhere in between, he will have to make judgements. Even the right call can get people killed.
His mission should always be foremost in his mind.

28 Apr 2007

MSN news have posted an article about Iraqis who have vowed to kidnap our stunning ginger prince. Seems like they are wised up to the usefulness of such a project. Maybe Al Quaida have a SH login? wink

28 Apr 2007

Quote by dambuster
I found that "these people" are sometimes brow beaten until they are almost forced to do some things.
"It's expected of them"
What would never fail to impress me is when an individual is put in a position they would not normally choose to be in, but make a concious and obvious decision to "make the best of it" and put their all into it.

I'm not sure If I'm agreeing with you or not here Dammie but.....
for what its worth...
My opinion is that HE has opted for this and is genuine in is desire to go out there and perform the role. Lets face it, they could have found him a non combatant role in Iraq or at least one well away from the serious risk of death faced by our service personell currently out there and in Afghanistan.
Good luck to him. Hes damned either way. If his time there is a success then the media will put a slant on it that he was protected in some way (Remember some of the cartoons in the press during Andrews service in the Falklands conflict?)
If it all goes tits up they'll crucify him anyway.
And Dammie...it's not always the SB that make a c**t of things wink