An interesting thread... :thumbup:
Having been a serving member of the Forces in the past, I find myself agreeing with both sides of this thread:-
Yes, we should remember those that have given their life in conflict for this country. And, no, I don't support the British Legion Poppy Appeal.
So I have observed the 1 minute silence out of respect for the fallen. Have made my charity donation direct to the force that I support and know that 100% of my donation will go directly to helping the families and ex-forces personnel that need it most.
For those that have the same views on not making a donation to the RBL may consider these alternatives:-
Army Benevolent Fund -
Royal Navy Benevolent Fund -
RAF Benevolent Fund - /
or
The Chelsea Pensioners Fund -
Help for Heroes -
just received this and thought to share it
JUST A COMMON SOLDIER
( A Soldier Died Today )
by
A. Lawrence Vaincourt
He was getting old and paunchy and his hair was falling fast,
And he sat around the Legion, telling stories of the past.
Of a war that he had fought in and the deeds that he had done,
In his exploits with his buddies; they were heroes, every one.
And tho' sometimes, to his neighbours, his tales became a joke,
All his Legion buddies listened, for they knew whereof he spoke.
But we'll hear his tales no longer for old Bill has passed away,
And the world's a little poorer, for a soldier died today.
He will not be mourned by many, just his children and his wife,
For he lived an ordinary and quite uneventful life.
Held a job and raised a family, quietly going his own way,
And the world won't note his passing, though a soldier died today.
When politicians leave this earth, their bodies lie in state,
While thousands note their passing and proclaim that they were great.
Papers tell their whole life stories, from the time that they were young,
But the passing of a soldier goes unnoticed and unsung.
Is the greatest contribution to the welfare of our land
A guy who breaks his promises and cons his fellow man?
Or the ordinary fellow who, in times of war and strife,
Goes off to serve his Country and offers up his life ?
A politician's stipend and the style in which he lives
Are sometimes disproportionate to the service that he gives.
While the ordinary soldier, who offered up his all,
Is paid off with a medal and perhaps, a pension small.
It's so easy to forget them for it was so long ago,
That the old Bills of our Country went to battle,but we know
It's not the politicians, with their compromise and ploys,
Who won for us the freedom that our Country now enjoys.
Should you find yourself in danger, with your enemies at hand,
Would you want a politician with his ever shifting stand?
Or would you prefer a soldier, who has promised to defend
His home, his kin and Country and would fight until the end?
He was just a common soldier and his ranks are growing thin,
But his presence should remind us that we may need his like again.
For when countries are in conflict, then we find the soldier's part
Is to clear up all the troubles that the politicians start.
If we cannot do him honour while he's here to hear the praise,
Then, at least let's give him homage at the ending of his days.
Perhaps just a simple headline in a paper that would say,
Our Country is in mourning, for a soldier died today !
This is a poem that always moves me.....
In Flanders Fields
by John McCrae, May 1915
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
~~and here is a response that was then written a few years later....
We Shall Keep the Faith
by Moina Michael, November 1918
Oh! you who sleep in Flanders Fields,
Sleep sweet - to rise anew!
We caught the torch you threw
And holding high, we keep the Faith
With All who died.
We cherish, too, the poppy red
That grows on fields where valor led;
It seems to signal to the skies
That blood of heroes never dies,
But lends a lustre to the red
Of the flower that blooms above the dead
In Flanders Fields.
And now the Torch and Poppy Red
We wear in honor of our dead.
Fear not that ye have died for naught;
We'll teach the lesson that ye wrought
In Flanders Fields.
My view of the human cost/benefit of war is summed up in the Wilfred Owen poem - Dulce et Decorum Est.
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!---An ecstasy of fumbling, Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time; But someone still was yelling out and stumbling, And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime... Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--- My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.
Andt that film of the soldier struggling up the trench with an injured, or more probably dead, comrade slung across his shoulders. Looking up to the camera with an expression of determination worn away to the point of desperation.
The common soldier fights and dies for his family, his country, his friends. The officers - don't, either fight or die, not the top ones anyway. A simplistic view but it's how I feel. That there would be a damned site less war all over if the ones who thought it was a good idea actually had to get out there and get shot.
My poppy is for those men and women. Not for the warmongers and glory-hunters.
I wear the poppy because many have given their service and their lives to allow me to have the choice to wear the poppy.
I buy and wear a poppy as a show of respect to the brave soldiers that have fought on our behalf in
iraq
afghanistan
falklands
northern island
and ofcause in the two world wars.
It does not mean you belive in any of the above conflicts...it is not political...it is simply a mark of respect.
I hope this is not taken the wrong way, but I do amuse myself sometimes with the more bizarre "out of the box" thoughts as you know.
The poppy was adopted as a symbol of peace in the aftermath of WWI.
Don't you get opium from the poppy and isn't that one of the reasons we are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan?
Maybe time for a rethink perhaps?
I was also amused to see that the official family photos of the Miliband family addition showed both parents, including Red Ed sporting a rather snazzy shirt outside his trouser band, wearing poppies. Now tell me, who goes round their house in casual dress wearing a poppy other than your average Sergeant Major who also wears his stripes on his PJ's and uses his swagger stick to pick his nose with?
"Not a poppy wearer of France"
i've said it before n i'll say it again
you can support the soldier without supporting the war
as a household we always support the RBL in fact the only charity mr b will support and as of next year i will be volunteering as a poppy collector something both our sons have done in the past
tomorrow morning we will be watching our youngest parading for the last time with cadets before he starts his basic training with the army and i hope with all my heart that he will never find himself in the postion where he needs to have to turn to the RBL but should that day arise i know they will be there for him just as they have for other members of my family in their hour of need
i respect everyones freedom of choice over this matter but it is something i feel incredibly strongly about
mr b here aint freedom great
For the Pals of the great war
Smokey town where they were born,
Down in the valley, smokey little streets;
They were pals from childhood days
Climbing trees and running through the fields
And they all played together
Through the turning of the years,
Sharing their laughter, sharing all their fears.
The seasons saw them growing, oh
The seasons passing turned them round
Through the turning, turning, turning years,
The Accrington Pals.
Schooldays end, the lads all went
To work, some spinning, some weaving in the sheds,
On the land or down the pit,
Working hard to earn their daily bread.
And they all went walking up old Pendle Hill
On Sundays, the larks sang high above the dale,
Little Willie Riley
Played his mandolin and sang.
They were laughing, they were singing then,
The Accrington Pals.
1916 came the call:
We need more lads to battle with the Hun,
Lads of Lancashire, heed the call;
With God on our side the battle will soon be won.
So they all came marching to the beating of the drums
Down from the fields and factories they’d come,
Smiling at the girls who
Came to see them on their way.
They were marching, marching, marching away,
The Accrington Pals.
Blue skies shining on that perfect day,
A lark was singing high above the Somme;
Brothers, pals and fathers lay
Watching that sweet bird sing in the quiet of the dawn.
Then they all went walking out
Towards the howling guns,
Talking and laughing, calmly walking on,
Believing in the lies that
Left them dying in the mud;
And they’re lying, lying, lying still,
The Accrington Pals.
Smoky town that heard the news
Down in the valley, smoky little streets;
Houses quiet and curtains drawn
All round the town, a silent shroud of grief.
And the larks were singing still above Old Pendle Hill,
The wind was in the bracken,
The sun was shining still,
And the larks were singing sweetly as
The evening fell upon the Somme
On Edward Parkinson
Bobby Henderson
Billie Clegg
Johnny Molloy
Norman Jones
Albert Berry
Willie Riley,
The Accrington Pals.
We always wear poppies.
We never look down on those that choose not too. Charity begins at home which in modern terms generally means you give to what you support.
I support the RBL and I support our veterans that do so much that most of you will thankfully never know about.
It's not about politics, it's about humanity. mena and women have given all they can give for you to sit here moaning. lets remember that the RBL predates the blairite years and therefore modern politics and cynical views about them should not be part of this discussion.
We have worn ours with pride today. My wife and daughter were connected with the Cadets in South Wales and our son has lost several friends in Afghanistan so although we never knew them it was right that we should remember them.
Not sure of the name of the tv programme aired in the last week or so about a group of youngsters who trained to take part in parachute landings at Arnhem I think. It was wonderful to see them laying the flowers at a cemetery and the impact that it had on them. Perhaps there is hope for future generations.
Whilst in a major branch of Tescos this morning it was good to see so many people observe the two minutes silence....but very disappointing to see those who did not despite several announcements that it would be observed at 11am. Is shopping more important than what the two minutes represents??????????????
Smooth2
People stand still whilst being silent so its not really practical to have people continuing to try and shop. They should put a note on the door, silence to be observed if this does not suit you please come back later. Dont seem to get this problem anywhere else, football matchs for an example. If the store is observing the silence then it should be observed its a private premises so they can do as they wish. The cashiers dont carry scanning your shopping so neither should any custiomers expect us all to start sidestepping so they dont have to wait one minute for a box of weetabix. Pathetic really.