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Reverse Racism

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Quote by tallnhairy
We need to get away from the word minority, stop thinking of anything than people. Anyone can be targeted for any number of reasons. All random violence is bad, not just racial incidents. Verbal and physical abuse can follow anyone, and anyone undergoing it deserves our help. Lets not get into my abuse is worse than yours, who can tell. Lets just try to stop where we can it all...

T&H, I agree. I'm a very live and let live individualist and wouldn't like to see someone who was capable of doing something turned away or belittled because of the ethinicity, gender, sexual orrientation etc.....
Sex God
The company I work for used to use the phrase "Applications from ethnic minorities are particularly welcome" in its job ads. I successfully argued that this was an attempt to discourage me from applying by admitting that my application would be received with less enthusiasm than one from someone they define as being in an ethnic minority. They have changed the wording from "particularly welcome" to "actively encouraged" which they can just about get away with because it doesn't so strongly imply a comparison, but it amounts to the same thing: A quota - a policy to include ethnicity in the recruitment criteria, and that, whether you call it positive discrimination, affirmitive action, or any other euphemism, is illegal. But there has never been a WASP on the CRE and there isn't a judge in the country who would have the guts to admit that anyone other than a white person was a racist. There is no White Police Association, no Society of White Lawyers, no White Teachers Conference, no Music Of White Origin Awards, etc etc etc ad nauseum, but the racist black versions exist and you're not allowed to criticise them. Discrimination on grounds of race is a crime, but you can't be convicted of a crime unless you're prosecuted, and you won't be prosecuted if you can frighten your potential accusers with the prospect of being called racist themselves for daring to criticise you, and you can get people to discrminate in your favour by accusing them of racism if they don't.
Provided you're not a white anglo-saxon male that is - they're fair game.
OK, so there are legal loopholes to allow discrimination in favour of selected groups, but there is no legal loophole to permit inciting racial hatred, and that's exactly what "positive" discrimination does - it creates resentment which leads to racial hatred on the part of those who wouldn't otherwise judge anyone on racial grounds.
The law itself merely disallows discrmination on racial grounds. The application of the law effectively defines all racists as white.
The whole thing stinks.
Warming the Bed
TMC,
I appreciate what you say and thank you, but while I am not normally shy in coming forward with an opinion, I think as far as such things go, it is better to refuse to participate on . . . I suppose you could call them philosophical grounds.
Thanks, though.
i didn't really want to get into this, cos it's puts me right into loonie left rant mode territory.
if you're gonna talk about racism, the first thing you need to ask is where does it come from, and then you need to ask who does it serve?
the answer is, it is fostered by a society run in the interests of a tiny minority. the only way that minority can maintain itself is through a policy of divide and rule. it is deliberately allowed to fester at the least, and at worst cynically fostered, and we all soak it up. ethnic minorities too. so yes you will see white against black, and black against asian, and even asian against asian. it's very useful.
the same people who promote the policy in the first place try and shift the focus of attention with "affirmative action" programs, and are quite happy to foster those resentments that those policies also create among the wider society, who do not have that level of power and control. it allows them to claim "look we're not racist. we actually employ black people!"
i'm using the police as an example. i have no particular axe to grind there, but in the wake of the Stephen Lawrence affair, we now supposedly have a "caring sharing" police force! yeah right! try living in chapeltown in leeds and telling the people there that. try telling that to ethnic minorities, and gay men and women for that matter, who join the police and find themselves ostracised. it's complete bollox.
we teach "multi-culturalism" in schools as though that somehow addresses it, but what do they teach? difference! not inclusivity. we teach a shallow view that does nothing to change attitudes, but it allows it to be said that we are trying to stamp it out.
racism is first and foremost about power! and when you have none, any little bit of power you can cling to is attractive. hence we have BNP councillors serving one of the largest ethnic populations in yorkshire.
rant over.
neil
Quote by neilinleeds
I’m using the police as an example. I have no particular axe to grind there, but in the wake of the Stephen Lawrence affair, we now supposedly have a "caring sharing" police force! Yeah right! Try living in chapel town in Leeds and telling the people there that. Try telling that to ethnic minorities, and gay men and women for that matter, who join the police and find themselves ostracised. It’s complete bollox.
we teach "multi-culturalism" in schools as though that somehow addresses it, but what do they teach? Difference! Not inclusivity. We teach a shallow view that does nothing to change attitudes, but it allows it to be said that we are trying to stamp it out.

Yes there is a problem in the police force. This is down to a few individuals who take those people of non-white skin and treat them as a representative of something they think they know about. They only think they know about this because they have never known any different. This does not excuse violet or exclusive behaviour.
In my experience teaching "multi-culturalism" in schools is worthwhile if taught in the correct format. Learning about what festivals are and how they are celebrated somehow gives the children common ground and something to talk about. Yes, some multicultural teaching is shallow but this is down to the drive for higher literacy and numeracy days to satisfy national standards and testing our children at regular intervals to see what level they are. There simply isn't the time to teach the ins and outs of every single culture in Britain.
Modern day teaching is about giving the children social and personal skills to be able to cope in the working world. This involves telling them about citizenship, which I admit is only guidelines and is not as prominent as some of our European counterparts.
However, some of the most democratic countries such as those in Scandinavia have incredibly strict immigration laws. They do not take into account anything that is not from that countries culture and they don't teach about "multi culturalism" because they don't have it like we do in this country.
I'm sure although we are from different parts of the country we have similarities. I bet also we have differences. It doesn’t make me think badly of you and want to discriminate against you. OK, there are inequalities and if I could live in an ideal world I would. But I don’t.
Ignorance is not the way forward.
Quote by steveg_nw
That is not racism, or "reverse racism". It is simply recruting someone for the job who has the right skills. If the person is going to be dealing with people who mainly speak eg Urdu, & cannot speak English, then they need to be able to speak that language.

It's called reverse racism because of the way they use it to exclude the people who are not in their target group. I agree that there are some instances where the need to speak fluent Urdu will be an essential tool for the job but there are other instances where the same tactic is used to promote people from minorities into jobs where it isn't.
Steve
Well the accepted terms are usually affirmative action or positive discrimination. Whatever, those are policies of which I disapprove... so I think we are in agreement. smile
Quote by tallnhairy
On the 'filth' issue as a member of an emergency service, all be it part time, I not going to comment except to say the vast majority of officers I have met have been decent and hardworking. Point here to remember, they don't make the laws, they just have to enforce them fairly. If you have other experiences I can understand why you would not have such a positive feel for the Police over any other service, but they just doing (mostly) what we (Society) ask them to do.

You seem to be implying that I have made some critical comment about the police force. If you can point out to me where I have done so I will be glad to respond.
Quote by HungryP
On the 'filth' issue as a member of an emergency service, all be it part time, I not going to comment except to say the vast majority of officers I have met have been decent and hardworking. Point here to remember, they don't make the laws, they just have to enforce them fairly. If you have other experiences I can understand why you would not have such a positive feel for the Police over any other service, but they just doing (mostly) what we (Society) ask them to do.

You seem to be implying that I have made some critical comment about the police force. If you can point out to me where I have done so I will be glad to respond.
Was responding to comments made regarding Vix's post, not yours smile
Quote by HungryP
That is not racism, or "reverse racism". It is simply recruting someone for the job who has the right skills. If the person is going to be dealing with people who mainly speak eg Urdu, & cannot speak English, then they need to be able to speak that language.

It's called reverse racism because of the way they use it to exclude the people who are not in their target group. I agree that there are some instances where the need to speak fluent Urdu will be an essential tool for the job but there are other instances where the same tactic is used to promote people from minorities into jobs where it isn't.
Steve
Well the accepted terms are usually affirmative action or positive discrimination. Whatever, those are policies of which I disapprove... so I think we are in agreement. smile
ok so you disapprove? i do too but i suspect for different reasons?
you may as well say "the blacks are taking all our jobs! which is in actual fact, the point. we don't say that anymmore, cos we are all PC and inclusive and anti-racist aren't we, but the idea held in the mind is the exact same one! can you not see that? the self same idea with the self same effect, i.e. to foster racism, is just being done in a more subtle way.
neil x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
ok so you disapprove? i do too but i suspect for different reasons?
you may as well say "the blacks are taking all our jobs! which is in actual fact, the point. we don't say that anymmore, cos we are all PC and inclusive and anti-racist aren't we, but the idea held in the mind is the exact same one! can you not see that? the self same idea with the self same effect, i.e. to foster racism, is just being done in a more subtle way.

I've never seen any figures comparing the two, but I'm quite sure that the token efforts made in positive discrimination to recruit ethnic minorities over whites over the past decade or two, are but a mere fraction of the discrimination against non-whites across the whole of society.
I disagree with both because they are unfair, & many blacks asians etc disagree with positive discrimination because of the bad feeling it generates & they would rather get a job on their own merits.
Sex God
From my understanding *positive discrimination^ is unlawful. Taking positive action, measures or using positive recruitment methods are ok........ Its a minefeild out there!!! At the end of the day its about Equality......
Reverse Racisim, Positive discrimination, Afirmitave Action is basically all the same.........in the uk, some universities have been accused of searching out minority candidates etc. so they hit the goverment targets/outcomes! Not good.....very tokenistic!
xanaisx
Orgasminator
Reverse Racism is Trendy Lefties OTT
A load of fucking bollox. They do more harm to race relations than a racist ever could.
Quote by JQL
Reverse Racism is Trendy Lefties OTT
A load of fucking bollox. They do more harm to race relations than a racist ever could.

no john. it may have started as a left wing thing, though that's debatable, but it's been hijacked. if you really look at what the whole PC / affirmative action thing is doing, it's a right wing agenda. exactly where are the trendie lefties in power? really in power? in power of top corporations or the military or the police? i reckon not mate. who sets the agenda there? the same ones who always have? hardly the loonie left are they?
look, as someone on the left, i want to see equality for all, and i want everyone to have the same opportunities and succeed on merit alone. but what does affirmative action do? it disempowers those who "benefit" from it, cos they only got the job cos they're from an ethnic minority. that's how it's seen. and it allows the racists to deny their racism because "they're adressing racism" in their organisation and redressing the balance! bollox. it feeds the very attitude they're supposedly trying to address.
in the 60's, we had enoch powell talking about repatriation. now we have the exact same attitude, but the target is asylum seekers and islamic terrorists. the agenda is identical, and the legislation that comes in on the back of it is every bit asracist. nothing addresses racism itself.
it's all a smokescreen. it's a lie. we can't be seen to be openly racist, so how better to hide it than by labelling it as anti-racist policy? well it's not. and it promotes the very thing we want to see stamped out, and makes out it's "our" attitudes at fault.
neil
Sex God
Totally agree with Neil.....good on ya!
It should be about everyone being treated fairly, based on equality of opportunity, no matter what status you are in life.
xanaisx
Sex God
A few things.
Positive discrimination is illegal, positive action is not. Ice you were right to make them change their advert.
Some of the Black organisations have white members though or have had white people win awards at their ceremonies, others however don't.
Every police force in this country has a problem meeting the Home Office targets regarding the target mix of their workforces. This has a lot to do with the majority admitting that they were institutionally racist and now desperatly trying to overcome this.
They were also excluded from the DDA until the 1 October this year so now also have huge disability targets to meet as well. guess what - they weren't prepared.
One force has been successfully sued by a post op transsexual so they are now all panicking about this as well and the support (or lack of) that they offer to gay or bisexual people.
They are trying the only way they know how - it gets people's backs up though and often is the totally the wrong way to go about it.
I also object to the 'filth' comment.
Racism is racism is racism, it is a problem in nearly every country in this world whether it is acknowledged or not.
I'd feel a lot happier if they were truly reversing it in the sense that it would stop happening, rather than just coining a phrase than will become a buzz word to justify its continuation
Jas
XXX