Staying friends....

31 Jul 2005

..wondering whether any other members have experienced or can offer some advice for a strange situation I find myself in..for the past couple of years I've been meeting a nice couple and enjoyed some mutually stimulating times with them. In recent months, our meets have become more adventurous and on the last occasion involved a 3rd male..great time was had by all..or so I assumed until I got a phone call from the fem who said that she was terribly unhappy about the way things were developing.
She's quite happy 'vanilla' swinging but prefers an exclusive relationship with one other male or bi-fem. Hubby is a really nice guy, but obviously isn't hearing the discrete signals she's been giving him. She's a naturally submissive girl and doesn't have the confidence to bring this up with hub as she doesn't want to upset him...but she feels that things are only going to get more lary and uncontrollable, from her point of view. She hasn't asked me to say anything, but I keep feeling that I could talk to him and maybe bring into the conversation reference to how she's feeling without letting on that I've spoken to her. They really are a fab couple and I'm sure that hubby would be mortified if he felt his wife was getting involved in stuff she wasn't totally happy with.
The dilemma I have is whether to open my big gob and risk our good friendship, but hopefully help them move forward or say nothing and just hope that they manage to sort things out between them..any suggestions would be appreciated. biggrin

:D

31 Jul 2005

Quote by x-man0223
why dont you all go out for a drink just the three of you and during the night bring it up in conversation about the 3rd male and to say that(even tho you proberly enjoyed it) that you was not sure that it felt 100% that night or somthing along those lines this will then give his wife a chance to say what she needs to say and then the hubby will know
i know that i havent been in that situation ever or yours but it is worth a shot before it all gets ruined for you

..sound idea Xman...at least that way if it goes tits up I can say it was my fault!

31 Jul 2005

My advice would be to do as you have been told and keep your mouth shut.
Doing anything else would probably be considered a betrayal by both halves of the couple, and it is likely that it would also cause additional friction between the two partners.
No means no - and you have been told not to say anything. Respect the boundaries that have been set for you and stop trying to find ways to get round them.
My suggestion would be to stop swinging with them and allow them to sort out there own issues.
lhk
Kat

31 Jul 2005

Has she actually asked you not to say anything, or do you think that she's hoping you will say something on her behalf? Either way, I'm inclined to think that you should step back a little and give her the time and freedom to talk to her hubby. The only consideration you have to make is how you're going to respond to hubby if he asks you to meet them before you know whether you/she are ready and he's been made aware of her feelings.

31 Jul 2005

On this one....
Ya damned if ya do something and ya damned if ya don't.
Me? I'd light a candle and hand it to the Gods (meditate)
And still stay :gagged:
But I'd encourage her to open the lines of communication between her and her partner. Something is amiss there if she's wary of mentioning it to him incase she "upsets" him. The warning bells are ringing loudly here mate, she's willing to compromise herself in order to please him? dunno

Have a chat with her, not him.

31 Jul 2005

Best hope they're not on here else keeping your gob shut seems rather superfluous rotflmao

1 Aug 2005

I think I would have to say its THEIR relationship and not yours, so they should be sorting out any problems. If there is a problem communicating you passing messages is not going to solve that problem, in fact it will probably make it even more dificult for them to communicate fully with each other.
She told you because she was probably looking to share a problem and therefore halve it in her head. It will sort itself out. When we have good friends we always want to help them. In this case, the best help you can give is to just let them sort it out themselves.
When swinging with another couple I have always thought to myself that I am their invited guest, brought into their relationship for that evening. And I respect that trust, but also understand their relationship with each other is more important than my relationship with either of them. That is the way it should be, and any solid couple will do whatever it takes to keep themselves together.
To maintain this friendship, keep being a friend, but keep your distance from certain issues.

1 Aug 2005

Quote by KitKat
My advice would be to do as you have been told and keep your mouth shut.
Doing anything else would probably be considered a betrayal by both halves of the couple, and it is likely that it would also cause additional friction between the two partners.
No means no - and you have been told not to say anything. Respect the boundaries that have been set for you and stop trying to find ways to get round them.
My suggestion would be to stop swinging with them and allow them to sort out there own issues.
lhk
Kat

..the lady concerned has not asked me to notsay anything, you may have mis-interpreted my original post. In fact I got the feeling that she was wanting me to talk to her hub on her behalf, hence the phone call she made to me in the first place. In any event I would never be so cavalier as to take hubby to one side and blurt out his wife's misgivings..any intervention from me would be along the lines of "I don't feel entirely comfortable with the way things are going" (as Xman kindly suggested) or "have you spoken to wife about how she feels about this..maybe she may share my misgivings, because it's a bold step for all us"
At the end of the day, I will probably say nothing and cease my sexual relationship with this couple as to me it seems that both parties are not mutually benefitting from the swinging lifestyle.

1 Aug 2005

Quote by KitKat
My advice would be to do as you have been told and keep your mouth shut.
Doing anything else would probably be considered a betrayal by both halves of the couple, and it is likely that it would also cause additional friction between the two partners.
No means no - and you have been told not to say anything. Respect the boundaries that have been set for you and stop trying to find ways to get round them.
My suggestion would be to stop swinging with them and allow them to sort out there own issues.
lhk
Kat

Got to agree with you Kat.... this is something that husband and wife need to sort out themselves.... without any hints from anyone else... no matter how well-meaning... She will find a way of letting him know what she wants from swinging.........without putting yr friendship into the equation.....
equi-princess xxx

1 Aug 2005

Quote by alspals
..the lady concerned has not asked me to not say anything, you may have mis-interpreted my original post..

True - When I saw the posts about being 'not clear' I went back and read your post again, and I hadn't understood it properly.
Your decision not to get involved is the right one though. She may have wanted you to talk to him, without openly saying so, but would he want his wife talking to you in the first place?
From your post, it appears, that at the end of the evening you WERE comfortable. To try and say otherwise means you are trying to express somebody else's feelings - Based on what you feel she may have been hinting that she wants you to do..
A situation custom made for making a pigs ear of things if there ever was one.
lhk
Kat

1 Aug 2005

Quote by KitKat

..the lady concerned has not asked me to not say anything, you may have mis-interpreted my original post..

True - When I saw the posts about being 'not clear' I went back and read your post again, and I hadn't understood it properly.
Your decision not to get involved is the right one though. She may have wanted you to talk to him, without openly saying so, but would he want his wife talking to you in the first place?
From your post, it appears, that at the end of the evening you WERE comfortable. To try and say otherwise means you are trying to express somebody else's feelings - Based on what you feel she may have been hinting that she wants you to do..
A situation custom made for making a pigs ear of things if there ever was one.
lhk
Kat
thanks for coming back to me Kat, with the benefit of the comments made here by others, yourself and my own reservations, it's probably right that I leave this potential quagmire for them to sort out...what I would hate would be if we carried on, me knowing she wasn't happy and him knowing nothing and assuming we were all willing parties...that would just be crap.
Thanks everyone for your help and advice.
Al
Ps..one 40 something, minutely endowed black guy, (with a conscience!), newly available for luncheons, Fairy Liquid adverts, escorting rich widows and occasional 3 somes!
smile

:)

1 Aug 2005

Quote by alspals
Ps..one 40 something, minutely endowed black guy, (with a conscience!), newly available for luncheons, Fairy Liquid adverts, escorting rich widows and occasional 3 somes!
:)

Hmmmm - what if we don't do luncheons, are allergic to Fairy Liquid and are neither rich nor widows?

1 Aug 2005

Personally i would keep my gob shut and let them sort it out, its upto her to speak to her hubby about how she feels and if she can't even do that u have 2 wonder what kind of relationship they have....
U put she can't talk to him about how she feel in fear of upsetting him....
what kind of husband would get upset over their wife saying how she feel in a swinging situation if she was unhappy about it!!!
sound a odd couple to me and if i met someone who was unhappy about what they was doing and only doing what their hubby wanted i would soon put them on my not to meet no more list confused

1 Aug 2005

sounds like they are the last couple on earth that should be swinging.....if they cant be honest with each other they shouldnt involve anyone else at all. a recipe for disaster! id leave them to make their own mistake and steer well clear mate. sounds like the hubby doesnt know his wife at all and your in danger of knowing her better than he does.

2 Aug 2005

Quote by freckledbird

Ps..one 40 something, minutely endowed black guy, (with a conscience!), newly available for luncheons, Fairy Liquid adverts, escorting rich widows and occasional 3 somes!
:)

Hmmmm - what if we don't do luncheons, are allergic to Fairy Liquid and are neither rich nor widows?
oh sorry Freckled.....I should have made special mention of Yorkshire based, red heads being a particular delight lol! lol

2 Aug 2005

Quote by naughtynymphos1
Personally i would keep my gob shut and let them sort it out, its upto her to speak to her hubby about how she feels and if she can't even do that u have 2 wonder what kind of relationship they have....
U put she can't talk to him about how she feel in fear of upsetting him....
what kind of husband would get upset over their wife saying how she feel in a swinging situation if she was unhappy about it!!!
sound a odd couple to me and if i met someone who was unhappy about what they was doing and only doing what their hubby wanted i would soon put them on my not to meet no more list

thanks for that NN, I've known them for a long time now..and they do actually have a really good relationship, as far as I can see..and I dont think either is using swinging as an Elastoplast for a failiing marriage.
I guess the mistake they have (he has) made though is to assume that because we, as swingers, are perhaps more liberated than most, that 'anything goes' and they should have had the conversation beforehand about taking things beyond a 'normal' threesome.
Having gone along with it the wife isn't afraid to speak to hubby, she just acknowledges that he obviously enjoyed it much more than she did (or he appears to, maybe he was faking it too!) and therefore doesn't want to upset him (not that it's guaranteed he would)..my advice to her was to try and clear the air now before she got even further into it.

2 Aug 2005

There,s been good advice all round here, but i think the lady should be telling her husband this and not you, it,s unfair for her to bring you into the situation, but sometimes it helps to tell some one else first just to practice (for want of another term) saying out loud how you feel and to put the words in the right perspective, i would urge her to tell her husband herself, and you be there for support for them both . Good luck confused

2 Aug 2005

Quote by alspals
Personally i would keep my gob shut and let them sort it out, its upto her to speak to her hubby about how she feels and if she can't even do that u have 2 wonder what kind of relationship they have....
U put she can't talk to him about how she feel in fear of upsetting him....
what kind of husband would get upset over their wife saying how she feel in a swinging situation if she was unhappy about it!!!
sound a odd couple to me and if i met someone who was unhappy about what they was doing and only doing what their hubby wanted i would soon put them on my not to meet no more list

thanks for that NN, I've known them for a long time now..and they do actually have a really good relationship, as far as I can see..and I dont think either is using swinging as an Elastoplast for a failiing marriage.
I guess the mistake they have (he has) made though is to assume that because we, as swingers, are perhaps more liberated than most, that 'anything goes' and they should have had the conversation beforehand about taking things beyond a 'normal' threesome.
Having gone along with it the wife isn't afraid to speak to hubby, she just acknowledges that he obviously enjoyed it much more than she did (or he appears to, maybe he was faking it too!) and therefore doesn't want to upset him (not that it's guaranteed he would)..my advice to her was to try and clear the air now before she got even further into it.
The question you have to ask yourself is what goes on behind closed door, the side to their marrage u do not see, its easy to put on a show when other are about, not saying that they are but.....if she feels she can't talk to her own hubbie there's something wrong in that relationship, u say u doubt he would get upset, yet she obviously thinks he will so the question is do u know him better than her.....or have things been said between them u don't know about?

2 Aug 2005

one more case that prooves that marriage and swinging are like oil and water.............

2 Aug 2005

Quote by easyease
one more case that prooves that marriage and swinging are like oil and water.............

This is not proof that marriage and swinging are like oil and water, it just shows that sometimes it doesn't work, for whatever reason.

2 Aug 2005

Quote by easyease
one more case that prooves that marriage and swinging are like oil and water.............

..that's not necessarily the case Easyease..to involve any 3rd party in your marriage is a big deal for most people and they've been doing that successfully with me for some time now. Whatever their difficulties, they're not about 'swinging' per se but communication and finding their own level of mutual satisfaction..
forgot to say..thanks for your continued contributions smile

2 Aug 2005

Quote by easyease
one more case that prooves that marriage and swinging are like oil and water.............

Would you care to expand on that for us?

2 Aug 2005

Quote by easyease
one more case that prooves that marriage and swinging are like oil and water.............

anything can be like oil and water.
was u not the guy who opened the thread about people cheating? is that not a case of none swinging marrages being like oil and water?
Any marrage is what u make it, like any relationship it has to be worked at, many many couples have very sucsessful swinging marrages, its all about being open and honest with each other not matter how you wish to spend your marrage.

2 Aug 2005

Quote by naughtynymphos1
Personally i would keep my gob shut and let them sort it out, its upto her to speak to her hubby about how she feels and if she can't even do that u have 2 wonder what kind of relationship they have....
U put she can't talk to him about how she feel in fear of upsetting him....
what kind of husband would get upset over their wife saying how she feel in a swinging situation if she was unhappy about it!!!
sound a odd couple to me and if i met someone who was unhappy about what they was doing and only doing what their hubby wanted i would soon put them on my not to meet no more list

thanks for that NN, I've known them for a long time now..and they do actually have a really good relationship, as far as I can see..and I dont think either is using swinging as an Elastoplast for a failiing marriage.
I guess the mistake they have (he has) made though is to assume that because we, as swingers, are perhaps more liberated than most, that 'anything goes' and they should have had the conversation beforehand about taking things beyond a 'normal' threesome.
Having gone along with it the wife isn't afraid to speak to hubby, she just acknowledges that he obviously enjoyed it much more than she did (or he appears to, maybe he was faking it too!) and therefore doesn't want to upset him (not that it's guaranteed he would)..my advice to her was to try and clear the air now before she got even further into it.
The question you have to ask yourself is what goes on behind closed door, the side to their marrage u do not see, its easy to put on a show when other are about, not saying that they are but.....if she feels she can't talk to her own hubbie there's something wrong in that relationship, u say u doubt he would get upset, yet she obviously thinks he will so the question is do u know him better than her.....or have things been said between them u don't know about?
thanks again NN, I did say that I'm not aware of everything that goes on and my comments are based on what the wife has told me, my knowledge of their personalities since I've known them and my own intuition..which could definitely be flawed!
I tried not to overstate the 'can't talk to hubby' reference..she can, but worries so much she doesnt want to disappoint him (her natural demeanor is quite reticent & submissive..and she's ok with that dynamic. He's also quite laid back and goes with the flow).
I mentioned previously that she (& I) are making a lot of assumptions..maybe hubby doesnt like the 4some thing either but doesnt say anything assuming she's happy with all of it. The upshot of reading everyones contributions is that I think it is best for me to not get too heavily involved in dialogue that should have been had between thema long time ago...just so they know they're singing from the same songsheet. biggrin

:D

2 Aug 2005

Ps..on a wider level, even sane, sensible people make assumptions about how one partner feels about a particular activity, as It's nearly impossible to set down ground rules for all eventualities..we can have basic ground rules, but when preferences have been over elaborated or too specific, things come to feel mechanical & contrived..sometimes spoiling the fun before it's begun!
Oh the woes of the modern swinger :cry: :cry: lol

:lol:

2 Aug 2005

Well its a difficult one cause you are clearly a different person to me, when i meet people for sex it is just that and their problems are just that...theirs, but on the other side my problems in swinging are mine i don't share them with others or ask for help but i guess thats just down to personality differences, but if u feel u would like to help i think the best thing to do is just try and get her to talk to him, if she upsets him at least she knows where she stands.

2 Aug 2005

Quote by alspals
Ps..on a wider level, even sane, sensible people make assumptions about how one partner feels about a particular activity, as It's nearly impossible to set down ground rules for all eventualities..we can have basic ground rules, but when preferences have been over elaborated or too specific, things come to feel mechanical & contrived..sometimes spoiling the fun before it's begun!
Oh the woes of the modern swinger :cry: :cry: :lol:

blimey i have been swinging for over 5 years now and i never realised it was soooooooooo complicated lol
i'm glad i have a easy life and marrage :lol:

2 Aug 2005

Quote by naughtynymphos1
Ps..on a wider level, even sane, sensible people make assumptions about how one partner feels about a particular activity, as It's nearly impossible to set down ground rules for all eventualities..we can have basic ground rules, but when preferences have been over elaborated or too specific, things come to feel mechanical & contrived..sometimes spoiling the fun before it's begun!
Oh the woes of the modern swinger :cry: :cry: :lol:

blimey i have been swinging for over 5 years now and i never realised it was soooooooooo complicated lol
i'm glad i have a easy life and marrage :lol:
..nor did I until the call I received last week!
Hope yours remains fun and uncomplicated smile

2 Aug 2005

aw sorry im just a cynical ol git. i know not every marriage is asking for trouble if it involves swinging but it can be the final nail in the coffin if the marriage is based on weak foundations. even the tiniest grain of doubt in a spouses head can bring it all crashing down. sorry didnt mean to offend anyone.

2 Aug 2005

Quote by easyease
aw sorry im just a cynical ol git. i know not every marriage is asking for trouble if it involves swinging but it can be the final nail in the coffin if the marriage is based on weak foundations. even the tiniest grain of doubt in a spouses head can bring it all crashing down. sorry didnt mean to offend anyone.

Actually i totally agree with you
If you are thinking of swinging to save your marrage forget it!