Peanut whilst I agree with most of the things you have said there really was no sign about the death of my friend.
Over the years people like his girlfriend and his Father and friends both from work and golf buddies, never spotted anything.
I only saw him a few days before and he was his usual self. We all tried after wards to see if there had been any signs, but nobody could see anything untoward about his behaviour.
Maybe his case is not the " norm ", if that is the right word, but we trully never saw a thing. I say it was selfish as he left no note, nothing at all to give his close family some answers, and his Father was devastated. His son has had his own issues over the years as anyone can imagine, and on that basis, and that basis alone, I think he was selfish.
At least with Bones Sister she has the chance to find out why and maybe get her the help she so obviously needs, for us we never had that chance.
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Suicide, a cry for help or selfish act?
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Quote by kentswingers777
Peanut whilst I agree with most of the things you have said there really was no sign about the death of my friend.
Over the years people like his girlfriend and his Father and friends both from work and golf buddies, never spotted anything.
Sorry, I did try to make it clear that I wasn't talking about every instance, but it also has to be noted that just because someone doesn't see signs does not mean that there aren't/weren't any.
I only saw him a few days before and he was his usual self. We all tried after wards to see if there had been any signs, but nobody could see anything untoward about his behaviour.
Maybe his case is not the " norm ", if that is the right word, but we trully never saw a thing. I say it was selfish as he left no note, nothing at all to give his close family some answers, and his Father was devastated. His son has had his own issues over the years as anyone can imagine, and on that basis, and that basis alone, I think he was selfish.
It's only selfish when viewed from the side of the living. A depressive and suicidal person does not see it from that PoV, in fact it's not unusual for the suicidal person to view the people around them as being selfish because they are so wrapped up in their own lives that they don't see what's wrong.
I'm not saying that is a justifiable viewpoint, but it is difficult for a person who's never suffered try depression to understand what it's like.
True depression is not just a feeling of being down or sad, and it's not the sort of thing that people can "snap out of it" or "pull yourself together". True depression means that one's brain chemistry is totally altered and as such it changes one's perceptions of the outside world. To a depressive suicide is not an easy way out, it's not a selfish act. To them it's the ONLY answer left.
At least with Bones Sister she has the chance to find out why and maybe get her the help she so obviously needs, for us we never had that chance.
Quote by Peanut
Peanut whilst I agree with most of the things you have said there really was no sign about the death of my friend.
Over the years people like his girlfriend and his Father and friends both from work and golf buddies, never spotted anything.
Sorry, I did try to make it clear that I wasn't talking about every instance, but it also has to be noted that just because someone doesn't see signs does not mean that there aren't/weren't any.
I only saw him a few days before and he was his usual self. We all tried after wards to see if there had been any signs, but nobody could see anything untoward about his behaviour.
Maybe his case is not the " norm ", if that is the right word, but we trully never saw a thing. I say it was selfish as he left no note, nothing at all to give his close family some answers, and his Father was devastated. His son has had his own issues over the years as anyone can imagine, and on that basis, and that basis alone, I think he was selfish.
It's only selfish when viewed from the side of the living. A depressive and suicidal person does not see it from that PoV, in fact it's not unusual for the suicidal person to view the people around them as being selfish because they are so wrapped up in their own lives that they don't see what's wrong.
I'm not saying that is a justifiable viewpoint, but it is difficult for a person who's never suffered try depression to understand what it's like.
True depression is not just a feeling of being down or sad, and it's not the sort of thing that people can "snap out of it" or "pull yourself together". True depression means that one's brain chemistry is totally altered and as such it changes one's perceptions of the outside world. To a depressive suicide is not an easy way out, it's not a selfish act. To them it's the ONLY answer left.
At least with Bones Sister she has the chance to find out why and maybe get her the help she so obviously needs, for us we never had that chance.
Peanut what you say I feel is so true, I have been down deep in that dark hole. It feels a bit like you are in a whirl pool that is spinning you out of all control and reasoning.
After the death of my baby 14 years ago I could see no way out, I knew I was at the lowest ebb of my life, I didn’t want to tell people close to me that I loved, how I truly felt, I wanted to protect them from feeling my hurt and pain. I didn’t want people to pity me or I didn’t want sympathy, I wanted to cope alone. People around me kept asking how I felt, I would say fine and put on a brave face.
The night before the funeral I sat pulling my hair out alone I couldn’t sleep I got out ever bottle of pain killers counting every tablet, with a feeling that I couldn’t cope any longer, I had no one to talk to no where to turn, but I had a three year old son at that moment his image came into my mind, he was my saviour, not my husband or my parents who I love dearly.
This was my darkest hour, I called every support group I could find in the yellow pages just talking to someone I didn’t know all night got me though that night.
And I have survived I wasn’t brave enough to take the last step, and I have vowed never in life would I end up there again. Good has come out of that bad as I now know how valuable life is and no matter what happens I know I will survive and I keep happy it is so easy to do and feels so much better than being sad.
I have only told my parents and husband this recently and I am happy to share it will you all, as hopefully it could make others see they are not alone.
Thanks bone for raising this issue.
I hope it makes those that feel helpless, know that sometimes there is nothing you can do, or could have seen, so don't feel guilty.
I think it can be either, i have a very good friend that suffers from mental health problems and she has tried to kill herself on several occasions and she also self harms, shes not after attention, she has mental health problems and sometime lifes just get to hard for her to cope, lots of people are in that situation, i would say if/when you get to the bottom of the problem with your sister you will find more, because i find it very hard to believe that usually stable and happy person would top themselves after a argument over money.
Sex God
Quote byIt is all down to what motivated it. All human action must be judge taking into consideration the reason behind the act. Suicide is no different.
No reflection on your personal circumstances Bonie.
I feel suicide as an act can be as justifiable, selfish, brave, cowardly, noble or stupid as any other human act driven by emotion or ethic.
lp
Travis
That's what LP said, isn't it?
Sex God
One of my best mates ever called 'Jock' who was in fact a Geordie and possibly one of the nicest guys in the world committed suicide. I didn't get why neither, did any one else. everyone was devastated. In the end though it was his choice and knowing him as i did it was not an easy one. I love him still I love his memory and so do others. He had children and a wife, though at the time they were distraught they are now happy. healthy and thriving, He would be pleased
Cheers Jock and the happy memories of the 'Black Magic roadshow' will live on!
Cheers Jock and the happy memories of the 'Black Magic roadshow' will live on!
Suicide painful for everyone it touches. It is typically through depression and not seeing any end to the pain.
If you have a broken leg, a terminal illness then people can understand and try to help. Depression can be a terminal illness. The problem can be when you ask for help it is either not there as friends and family don’t know what to do, or get impatient and cant understand why the depressed cant just pull them selves together, or the mental health teams don’t act unless it’s a diagnosed dangerous to the public issue.
If a depressed person is asked what’s wrong?, often they cant tell you , cuse they don’t know. They just can’t cope any more, sometimes they don’t want to die; they just want it all to stop for a while.
If only there was a switch in the brain to turn the thoughts off.
Sometimes there is, medication can help and cognitive behaviour therapy can assist you to step outside of the thoughts.
A selfish act? To those left behind yeah probably, to the person who took the over dose? It was to them probably the most selfless act they committed… they probably thought that everyone would be better of without them.
Some people attempt suicide and no one ever knows, they come round and feel stupid, or worse they feel a failure for not even being able to do that right.
Don’t presume because it wasn’t followed by death and they say how stupid they now feel now that they won’t feel like doing it again, but succeed next time.
Mental ill heath is still such a stigma.
When you feel you’ve lost everything and question the meaning of life, and when life is just soooo dam hard you can’t often see the point in carrying on the fight.
In light of the credit crunch, and Christmas please spare a thought to everyone out there, not just the single or perceived lonely, sometimes those with the most can feel more pressure and burden.
I’ve lost two people in the last 5 years, there was no way it was a cry for help.
A song I listened to after was macy grey The letter. It somehow helped.
Hugs to all those who have gone through this
Xxxxx fem xxxxxxxx
If you have a broken leg, a terminal illness then people can understand and try to help. Depression can be a terminal illness. The problem can be when you ask for help it is either not there as friends and family don’t know what to do, or get impatient and cant understand why the depressed cant just pull them selves together, or the mental health teams don’t act unless it’s a diagnosed dangerous to the public issue.
If a depressed person is asked what’s wrong?, often they cant tell you , cuse they don’t know. They just can’t cope any more, sometimes they don’t want to die; they just want it all to stop for a while.
If only there was a switch in the brain to turn the thoughts off.
Sometimes there is, medication can help and cognitive behaviour therapy can assist you to step outside of the thoughts.
A selfish act? To those left behind yeah probably, to the person who took the over dose? It was to them probably the most selfless act they committed… they probably thought that everyone would be better of without them.
Some people attempt suicide and no one ever knows, they come round and feel stupid, or worse they feel a failure for not even being able to do that right.
Don’t presume because it wasn’t followed by death and they say how stupid they now feel now that they won’t feel like doing it again, but succeed next time.
Mental ill heath is still such a stigma.
When you feel you’ve lost everything and question the meaning of life, and when life is just soooo dam hard you can’t often see the point in carrying on the fight.
In light of the credit crunch, and Christmas please spare a thought to everyone out there, not just the single or perceived lonely, sometimes those with the most can feel more pressure and burden.
I’ve lost two people in the last 5 years, there was no way it was a cry for help.
A song I listened to after was macy grey The letter. It somehow helped.
Hugs to all those who have gone through this
Xxxxx fem xxxxxxxx
I don't have anything constructive to add to this thread as I have no experience of suicide &/or depression, but I just wanted to say how moving I've found it reading such open and honest posts.
My heart goes out to all of you affected by any of this and I send big hugs to all.
Bonedigger, it was a big thing for you to post on the forums and I hope you and all your family find some peace in your hearts and lives.
Mrs 777 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
My heart goes out to all of you affected by any of this and I send big hugs to all.
Bonedigger, it was a big thing for you to post on the forums and I hope you and all your family find some peace in your hearts and lives.
Mrs 777 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Quote by FreckledbirdIt is all down to what motivated it. All human action must be judge taking into consideration the reason behind the act. Suicide is no different.
No reflection on your personal circumstances Bonie.
I feel suicide as an act can be as justifiable, selfish, brave, cowardly, noble or stupid as any other human act driven by emotion or ethic.
lp
Travis
That's what LP said, isn't it?
Yes but I put it so much better 
Quote byIt is all down to what motivated it. All human action must be judge taking into consideration the reason behind the act. Suicide is no different.
No reflection on your personal circumstances Bonie.
I feel suicide as an act can be as justifiable, selfish, brave, cowardly, noble or stupid as any other human act driven by emotion or ethic.
lp
Travis
That's what LP said, isn't it?
Yes but I put it so much better Ya think?
My thoughts if you do want to read them are
If you really want to die and commit suicide you will do something that will pretty much do it instantly and no one can stop you, but i feel for any one who feels that they need to do something and do the cry for help bit because they need someone to talk to, maybe a shoulder to cry on, they just need sum sort of help.
If you really want to die and commit suicide you will do something that will pretty much do it instantly and no one can stop you, but i feel for any one who feels that they need to do something and do the cry for help bit because they need someone to talk to, maybe a shoulder to cry on, they just need sum sort of help.
Quote by slutwifeThe problem is, pills can really screw the liver and kidneys, not the best way to get attention? So even if one lives, there can be long term health problems.
My thoughts if you do want to read them are
If you really want to die and commit suicide you will do something that will pretty much do it instantly and no one can stop you, but i feel for any one who feels that they need to do something and do the cry for help bit because they need someone to talk to, maybe a shoulder to cry on, they just need sum sort of help.
Suicide is a permanant solution to an often temporary problem,but if someone is determined enough they will find a way regardless of friends,family ect,as sad as it is unfortunately often the case
Agree with tmann,the ususal overdose of paracetamol can cause long term liver damage that can be irreversable so if you then decide that the attempt was only a cry for help it can be to late to do anything about it...its not a nice thing to see :cry:
Agree with tmann,the ususal overdose of paracetamol can cause long term liver damage that can be irreversable so if you then decide that the attempt was only a cry for help it can be to late to do anything about it...its not a nice thing to see :cry:
As with all arguments there are two sides. I am not saying this thread is an argument, it's just a figure of speach.
For a person to even think about suicide they have to be at an extreme low in their lives. Something has triggered the thought and they cannot see beyond their own dilema.
I have been in such a situation many years ago. But I was lucky in that I rang The Samaritans. I could actually talk to someone who didn't have a personal view of my situation. After that phone call I sat and thought about my life.
My three children were at the top of the list. What would happen to them without a father to love them as a father should.
I count myself lucky to have been able to sort out the problem before it took over all rational thinking.
One of my brothers made a massive attempt to end his life. I won't go into all the details but he survived. The doctors were amazed he lived. His recovery period though was a living hell for our family and the doctors and nurses.
To actually go ahead with a genuine suicide your mind has to have lost all sense of reason. Why do I say that? Because the basic human instinct is 'survival'.
With that in mind it says a lot about the mindset of a person who makes a genuine attempt to end their life.
There are no outward signs of a persons mental state. I was on the verge of a breakdown a few years ago and didn't know until a blow up at work. I stormed out in a rage over something which now seems trivial. My doctor refered me to a stress councillor. It is the best thing I ever did.
I think it would help everyone to see someone like this because you don't realise how easy it is to absorb everyday pressure and not realise how it is affecting you. If there are any such councillors who are members of SH I hope you agree.
Anyway, I won't bore you any longer.
But I leave you with the thought. 'If suicide is a selfish act, what flips the mind to deprive that person of the basic human instinct of survival?'
For a person to even think about suicide they have to be at an extreme low in their lives. Something has triggered the thought and they cannot see beyond their own dilema.
I have been in such a situation many years ago. But I was lucky in that I rang The Samaritans. I could actually talk to someone who didn't have a personal view of my situation. After that phone call I sat and thought about my life.
My three children were at the top of the list. What would happen to them without a father to love them as a father should.
I count myself lucky to have been able to sort out the problem before it took over all rational thinking.
One of my brothers made a massive attempt to end his life. I won't go into all the details but he survived. The doctors were amazed he lived. His recovery period though was a living hell for our family and the doctors and nurses.
To actually go ahead with a genuine suicide your mind has to have lost all sense of reason. Why do I say that? Because the basic human instinct is 'survival'.
With that in mind it says a lot about the mindset of a person who makes a genuine attempt to end their life.
There are no outward signs of a persons mental state. I was on the verge of a breakdown a few years ago and didn't know until a blow up at work. I stormed out in a rage over something which now seems trivial. My doctor refered me to a stress councillor. It is the best thing I ever did.
I think it would help everyone to see someone like this because you don't realise how easy it is to absorb everyday pressure and not realise how it is affecting you. If there are any such councillors who are members of SH I hope you agree.
Anyway, I won't bore you any longer.
But I leave you with the thought. 'If suicide is a selfish act, what flips the mind to deprive that person of the basic human instinct of survival?'
Quote by sexytvmichelle
...To actually go ahead with a genuine suicide your mind has to have lost all sense of reason. Why do I say that? Because the basic human instinct is 'survival'.
With that in mind it says a lot about the mindset of a person who makes a genuine attempt to end their life....
You say that, but there are times when someone will place themselves in a position where their death is certain, and all for the love of others. Suicide is not simple. It can be running away, from pain or a depressed state of mind. It can be a positive act to achieve something.
Today a girl/woman decided she was going to throw herself into the river (this being 2 nights in a row), near to where i work. On the scene there was 5 fire engines, 4 police, ambulance and an underwater team there just in case, it took a lot of resources, but my thought is because this is the 2nd night in a row she decided to do it, Why did they not get her help the previous night, instead they just let her go home.
This girl does need help, and she is crying out for it
This girl does need help, and she is crying out for it
Quote by slutwife
Today a girl/woman decided she was going to throw herself into the river (this being 2 nights in a row), near to where i work. On the scene there was 5 fire engines, 4 police, ambulance and an underwater team there just in case, it took a lot of resources, but my thought is because this is the 2nd night in a row she decided to do it, Why did they not get her help the previous night, instead they just let her go home.
This girl does need help, and she is crying out for it
I'm amazed. When my 83 year friend's husband died afer 60 years of marriage, she was left in severe arthritic pain and extremely lonely.
She took an overdose but was found by a neighbour, and after being in hospital was taken to a psychiatric unit.
They asked her if, when she was released, she would be tempted to do it again.
And she said yes, she didn't want to live without her husband. So they kept her there for 3 months, until she promised she wouldn't do it again.
She's still riddled with arthritis and very lonely. But now she's too frightened to do the same in case they section her.
In the majority of cases, people who commit suicide are too ill too see any other solution and not selfish.
Even when considering those they leave behind, they generally consider that their families and friends would be better off without them.
If that's you or yours - really will listen all night and day and not judge you:
Can I post this?
Even when considering those they leave behind, they generally consider that their families and friends would be better off without them.
If that's you or yours - really will listen all night and day and not judge you:
Can I post this?
Interesting topic.
The assumption that suicide is a cry for help, or a selfish act.
How about suicide as a relief from pain, where death is assured anyway ?
Those suffering from incurable illness with only pain relief ?
Anyway.
To lighten-up a bit, a blog from a person suffering severe clinical depression:
The assumption that suicide is a cry for help, or a selfish act.
How about suicide as a relief from pain, where death is assured anyway ?
Those suffering from incurable illness with only pain relief ?
Anyway.
To lighten-up a bit, a blog from a person suffering severe clinical depression:
Warming the Bed
As the mother of a son who tried to kill himself,as the friend of a very successful man who achieved it and as a person who once got low enough to even contemplate it myself. Yes selfish yes a cry for help but let us not judge , let us feel grief for those who felt it was the only way out compassion for those left behind and last of all hope that those who tried and failed never find themselves that low ever again .
Quote by Elaine_female
As the mother of a son who tried to kill himself,as the friend of a very successful man who achieved it and as a person who once got low enough to even contemplate it myself. Yes selfish yes a cry for help but let us not judge , let us feel grief for those who felt it was the only way out compassion for those left behind and last of all hope that those who tried and failed never find themselves that low ever again .
:therethere: :therethere: :therethere: Elaine xxx
Casanova
My sister died at the age of 12.
I dont think her act was selfish or brave.
It was a cry for help and sadly, because of her age, she felt she had no one to turn to.
It doesnt matter what age a person is, their emotional well being should be taken seriously.
dee
I dont think her act was selfish or brave.
It was a cry for help and sadly, because of her age, she felt she had no one to turn to.
It doesnt matter what age a person is, their emotional well being should be taken seriously.
dee
Quote by Rich_and_dee
My sister died at the age of 12.
I dont think her act was selfish or brave.
It was a cry for help and sadly, because of her age, she felt she had no one to turn to.
It doesnt matter what age a person is, their emotional well being should be taken seriously.
dee
That's so sad. x
Casanova
thank you cherrytree and mrs bonedigger
to ya both
dee
to ya bothdee
Sex God
Quote by slutwife
Today a girl/woman decided she was going to throw herself into the river (this being 2 nights in a row), near to where i work. On the scene there was 5 fire engines, 4 police, ambulance and an underwater team there just in case, it took a lot of resources, but my thought is because this is the 2nd night in a row she decided to do it, Why did they not get her help the previous night, instead they just let her go home.
This girl does need help, and she is crying out for it
Or attention
Five fire engines and four police vehicles seems a little over the top.
There's a man who regularly 'threatens' to jump off a high building in one of the towns near me. It's a highly visible building - right next to the bus station, a multi-storey car park and a leisure centre, not to mention the offices and shops. He stands there and waits for all the rescue services to turn up, then allows them to persuade him not to jump. But only after he's brought the whole town centre to a standstill for several hours.
I think they should refuse to go out to him any more (or send him a bill for all the services) - it's a waste of money and the services might just have been able to save the life of someone else in an accident.
