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That old saying...

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What does the phrase " A bad workman blames his tools" mean to you?

There are two well known phrases that I used to think meant one thing but now think mean another.
"A bad workman blames his tools" I always thought this was a warning to the inept and advice that if you were skilled enough the tools didn't matter. I was quite shocked when a friend pointed out that he had always understood it to mean that in order to do the best possible job good tools were vital. I think his interpretation makes more sense.
"The Devil is in the detail" I thought this was advice to consider the minutiae of an argument or proposition to minimise risk or to caution against failing to consider all of the implications of a course of action. I know think its more likely to be a caution against allowing the minutiae to cloud clear thinking.
I wondered what other folk thought and whether they had any similar examples.
Sits back and awaits the inevitable tool gags. sad
I have always seen this saying to mean, a bad workman will blame it on anything but his own abilities. I believe this to be the case, as anyone that is good in what they do, can do a great job even with the poorest of tools.
Look at some of the historic wonders of the world, we have the best tools going now days but can not it seems reproduce what they did with the most primitive tools that had to work with.
But this saying can relate to anything in life that you appoint blame on something else.
So for me I see it as a cop out clause.
I agree that you need decent tools to do a decent job but good tools won't make a bad workman better. And crap tools just mean that a good result will be harder work. I might get Mr Stuff to pop his forum cherry on a response to this :giggle:
To me it is an idiom that suggests that humans struggle to accept their own inadequacies and will instead blame something else for their inherent failings.
My M-In Law is a prime example. I have lost track of the times I have fixed her "stupid computer", "stupid camera", "stupid television", "stupid video". And I've found all four of these items to be perfectly fine and the operator entirely faulty.
I take it to mean someone blaming their own shit work on anything but themselves
I believe the saying is actually "a GOOD workman NEVER blames his tools."
I know that it may seem a bit picky, but the Devil is in the detail!!
confused confused confused lol lol lol lol wink
I think you are right on the workman maxim Benrumson.
The devil is in the detail usually comes up when, for example, two people agree a deal in outline knowing that they still have to agree the details. If they say that the devil is in the detail it means 'we've done the easy bit by agreeing in principle - now sorting out the detail is going to be the difficult bit' - hence that's where the devil lies.
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Quote by Resonance
To me it is an idiom that suggests that humans struggle to accept their own inadequacies and will instead blame something else for their inherent failings.
My M-In Law is a prime example. I have lost track of the times I have fixed her "stupid computer", "stupid camera", "stupid television", "stupid video". And I've found all four of these items to be perfectly fine and the operator entirely faulty.

Brings us back to the acronym 'picnic'. Problem In Chair, Not In Computer (etc). :giggle:
Quote by westerross
I think you are right on the workman maxim Benrumson.
The devil is in the detail usually comes up when, for example, two people agree a deal in outline knowing that they still have to agree the details. If they say that the devil is in the detail it means 'we've done the easy bit by agreeing in principle - now sorting out the detail is going to be the difficult bit' - hence that's where the devil lies.
.

Ahhh... Now you see... I took that to mean that when you see an offer such as "Free broadband for Life!" and you sign up... You check the fine print and find that it only applies if you are a half-bred Walrus and part time Opiate Fiend, currently living in the catchment area of a school with three L's in the title and have an Aunty called Glenys who knows how to operate a lathe.
But I can see entirely that it applies to what you say Tune & Ben...
I think you are right Sarge, I think that is the original maxim, but I suppose over time it has been altered to state the opposite, even if the meaning is pretty much the same (poor workers blame other things for their failings, good workers don't...)
Language eh?
Dontcha think Res that a bad workman always blaming his tools or a good workman never blaming his tools can both be interpreted either way?
And yes language is lovely.
And no I dont want your babies.
Quote by benrums0n
Dontcha think Res that a bad workman always blaming his tools or a good workman never blaming his tools can both be interpreted either way?
And yes language is lovely.
And no I dont want your babies.

Damn thats confused me now! redface
Quote by flower411
I believe the saying is actually "a GOOD workman NEVER blames his tools."
I know that it may seem a bit picky, but the Devil is in the detail!! confused confused confused lol lol lol lol wink

Never heard that one before :shock: Maybe it`s cos you down under, you`re getting everything arse about face as well as upside down !!
lmao!
Quote by flower411
I believe the saying is actually "a GOOD workman NEVER blames his tools."
I know that it may seem a bit picky, but the Devil is in the detail!! confused confused confused lol lol lol lol wink

Never heard that one before :shock: Maybe it`s cos you down under, you`re getting everything arse about face as well as upside down !!
I'm with Bilko on this. A good workman never blames his tools because he always does a good job - hence never any need to blame anything. A bad workman could get lucky and produce a brilliant job (bit like I'm doing with this post!) - he wouldn't blame anything and therefore doesn't 'always' blame his tools.
Quote by Resonance
I think you are right on the workman maxim Benrumson.
The devil is in the detail usually comes up when, for example, two people agree a deal in outline knowing that they still have to agree the details. If they say that the devil is in the detail it means 'we've done the easy bit by agreeing in principle - now sorting out the detail is going to be the difficult bit' - hence that's where the devil lies.
.

Ahhh... Now you see... I took that to mean that when you see an offer such as "Free broadband for Life!" and you sign up... You check the fine print and find that it only applies if you are a half-bred Walrus and part time Opiate Fiend, currently living in the catchment area of a school with three L's in the title and have an Aunty called Glenys who knows how to operate a lathe.
But I can see entirely that it applies to what you say Tune & Ben...
I think you are right Sarge, I think that is the original maxim, but I suppose over time it has been altered to state the opposite, even if the meaning is pretty much the same (poor workers blame other things for their failings, good workers don't...)
Language eh?
That too :thumbup:
I was pedantologistically pointing out the difference between the two analogies rolleyes
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A lot of those sayings are employed without a true understanding of what they mean and imply. But everyone nods agreement, when someone says them. Or winces painfully at them being the most obvious and unecessary thing to say.
There is a vague sense of what they mean, but not a very accurate one.
i once heard an immigrant fellow talking in a shop. His english language was not so good. But he had learned dozens of such phrases and nearly everything he spoke about involved using them in some way. Some quite incorrectly, but nonetheless he managed to get things done quite well by using them.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Look at some of the historic wonders of the world, we have the best tools going now days but can not it seems reproduce what they did with the most primitive tools that had to work with.

But what would we do with a Pyramid or another Stone Henge?
bolt
Dave_Notts
Quote by Dave__Notts
But what would we do with a Pyramid or another Stone Henge?
bolt
Dave_Notts

Provide much needed employment for fence erectors once they've been built.
Lol, I thing people mean that a bad workman/workwoman? will blame anything but himself/herself!
That said, the tools help! A workman with no tools is probably a very bad workman indeed. rolleyes