The Iron lady

3 Apr 2007

Quote by Mr-Powers
but if you planned on living in your council house for the rest of your lives...do you really want to be paying full rent when your pensioners...so why not buy it?....does your council offer tenants a grant to move out so can buy on the open market?

We do intend to buy at some point, whether it be this house or after some decent salary raises changing area.
(my preference would be the latter)
Cx

3 Apr 2007

Quote by Calista
I've always been in favour of the right to buy but where the Councils fell down is by not using the money they made on the sales to build more houses for rent.
I rent my house, I have a secured tenancy and don't have the right to buy. On my rather crap wages ( and even crapper 1% pay rise ) I can't afford to get onto the property ladder. The only way I could do it would be a lottery win or marry for money and there's more chance of me shagging the Pope!
The whole Right To Buy scheme was, and still is, a good idea for those people who couldn't afford private house prices but greedy local councils have proved once again, that the profits go into lining pockets and not rebuilding rental housing for the less wealthy.

I couldn't agree more with you :thumbup: We have a council house as we can't afford to buy (and yes we both work in fairly well paid jobs!).
We have right to buy and are torn between getting on the housing ladder finally, but then we're taking much needed social housing out of the loop, and our council isn't investing (or if it is then the size of the house is ridiculous!)
Catch 22.
Cx
Both the government and Builders are actually offering more schemes to help first time buyers get their foot on to the property ladder. I'm not too sure about the goverment initiatives but one of them gives civil servants 25% of the property value. Builders are also offering schemes to help FTB's and a lot of these really are good schemes. In the current market I can see very few reasons why people are unable to purchase a home (ok maybe not in the exact location they want) if they are in regualar employment....
If anyone wants any advise over this please feel free to PM me..... biggrin

3 Apr 2007

Quote by poshkate
Both the government and Builders are actually offering more schemes to help first time buyers get their foot on to the property ladder. I'm not too sure about the goverment initiatives but one of them gives civil servants 25% of the property value. Builders are also offering schemes to help FTB's and a lot of these really are good schemes. In the current market I can see very few reasons why people are unable to purchase a home (ok maybe not in the exact location they want) if they are in regualar employment....
If anyone wants any advise over this please feel free to PM me.....

If we bought this house, which is a good sized 3 bed it would be at least 50% cheaper than a comparable house on the private market, not taking into consideration area either! Our monthly payment rent to mortgage would triple!
A new build, which judging by recent builds round here, would be smaller in square footage, would cost us at least £220,000 thats 3 times the cost of ours :shock:
In fact, a new build of retirement flats, built on the site of one reasonable sized family house, is currently advertising at £195k per flat :shock:
It wouldn't pay us to buy at this moment in time, taking into consideration children's schooling, paying off student loans, and just our disposable income.
No amount of incentives/sweetners can soften that LOL.
Cx

3 Apr 2007

Quote by Calista

Both the government and Builders are actually offering more schemes to help first time buyers get their foot on to the property ladder. I'm not too sure about the goverment initiatives but one of them gives civil servants 25% of the property value. Builders are also offering schemes to help FTB's and a lot of these really are good schemes. In the current market I can see very few reasons why people are unable to purchase a home (ok maybe not in the exact location they want) if they are in regualar employment....
If anyone wants any advise over this please feel free to PM me.....

If we bought this house, which is a good sized 3 bed it would be at least 50% cheaper than a comparable house on the private market, not taking into consideration area either! Our monthly payment rent to mortgage would triple!
A new build, which judging by recent builds round here, would be smaller in square footage, would cost us at least £220,000 thats 3 times the cost of ours :shock:
In fact, a new build of retirement flats, built on the site of one reasonable sized family house, is currently advertising at £195k per flat :shock:
It wouldn't pay us to buy at this moment in time, taking into consideration children's schooling, paying off student loans, and just our disposable income.
No amount of incentives/sweetners can soften that LOL.
Cx
I wasn't just talking about general incentives that builders offer....there are a lot of options out there at the moment...have you spoken to an independant finacial advisor?

3 Apr 2007

I dont want to be lynched but............
A few months ago I worked for a company who employed Polish staff....... our cleaner was a Polish Doctor (fully qualified) ....... our producton team ranged from Poles with no qualifications ....... to Poles with many qualifications!
Every week some of them would go to the DHSS??? (whatever its called now) for their work permits .... 9 times out of 10 they were refused!!! These were decent people who had left family and friends in Poland to come to the promised land!!!! (Britain)
They took the jobs thats the Brits didnt want ... they took jobs that had been vacant for months & months & months!!!!
I need to shurrup ....... coz I dont want to offend anyone ............ but
Imigrants arent our problem ....... we are!
Maggie ....... some was good and some was absolute shite IMHO.
Off for a blonde moment in the corner, before I go to bed :giggle:
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

4 Apr 2007

Quote by Laclau
Thatcher manufactured the war with Argentina in the same way that she manufactured the war with the miners. Both were cynical acts of political posturing designed to cement her place in history.

Did I really just read that? How did Thatcher manufacture the war with Argentina???

4 Apr 2007

Quote by Mr-Powers
well we bought all council house...it helped us no end...

Well done Mr Powers. You have summed Thatcherism up in one simple sentence. "Fuck everyone else, me and mine are OK!"
Lonni

4 Apr 2007

Quote by Lonni

well we bought all council house...it helped us no end...

Well done Mr Powers. You have summed Thatcherism up in one simple sentence. "Fuck everyone else, me and mine are OK!"
Lonni
excuse me??
where did i say "Fuck everyone else, me and mine are OK"?.....i don't want to be paying rent when i'm in my sixties,seventies or eighties...so we bought our council house...so what!..what we were paying in rent is now what we are paying in our mortgage...the difference is we are seeing something for our money...and something to pass onto our kids..so they can get a start on the property ladder!...i will not loose any sleep what you or anyone thinks...we did the right thing for our family and thats all i care about....my family!

4 Apr 2007

Quote by Mr-Powers
I've always been in favour of the right to buy but where the Councils fell down is by not using the money they made on the sales to build more houses for rent.
I rent my house, I have a secured tenancy and don't have the right to buy. On my rather crap wages ( and even crapper 1% pay rise ) I can't afford to get onto the property ladder. The only way I could do it would be a lottery win or marry for money and there's more chance of me shagging the Pope!
The whole Right To Buy scheme was, and still is, a good idea for those people who couldn't afford private house prices but greedy local councils have proved once again, that the profits go into lining pockets and not rebuilding rental housing for the less wealthy.

I couldn't agree more with you :thumbup: We have a council house as we can't afford to buy (and yes we both work in fairly well paid jobs!).
We have right to buy and are torn between getting on the housing ladder finally, but then we're taking much needed social housing out of the loop, and our council isn't investing (or if it is then the size of the house is ridiculous!)
Catch 22.
Cx
but if you planned on living in your council house for the rest of your lives...do you really want to be paying full rent when your pensioners...so why not buy it?....does your council offer tenants a grant to move out so can buy on the open market?
Haven't the Council's stopped the 'right to buy' or planning on stopping it? I'm sure I heard something on that, either that or have they increased the buying price (that'll be right! rolleyes

)

4 Apr 2007

Quote by blonde
I dont want to be lynched but............
A few months ago I worked for a company who employed Polish staff....... our cleaner was a Polish Doctor (fully qualified) ....... our producton team ranged from Poles with no qualifications ....... to Poles with many qualifications!

who would dare lynch you sweet Blonde? :shock: ... I'm in agreeance with you purely as we know of a joiner who worked away (in this country) but has had to return having been paid off.. the reason, the company had hired 8 new workers - all Polish, cheaper wages but not half the experience.

4 Apr 2007

Dont feed the trolls folks

4 Apr 2007

Quote by Mr-Powers

well we bought all council house...it helped us no end...

Well done Mr Powers. You have summed Thatcherism up in one simple sentence. "Fuck everyone else, me and mine are OK!"
Lonni
excuse me??
where did i say "Fuck everyone else, me and mine are OK"?.....i don't want to be paying rent when i'm in my sixties,seventies or eighties...so we bought our council house...so what!..what we were paying in rent is now what we are paying in our mortgage...the difference is we are seeing something for our money...and something to pass onto our kids..so they can get a start on the property ladder!...i will not loose any sleep what you or anyone thinks...we did the right thing for our family and thats all i care about....my family!
I agree with you Mr.P. My friend who is single spent most of her life looking after her elderly parents. On her wage alone she couldn't have ever bought property but she was eligible to buy the council house she lived in therefore securing the roof over her parents head at that time and also her future. Well done I say. smile

4 Apr 2007

Quote by Mallock2006
Dont feed the trolls folks

Ok hun

, I think this thread has possibly served it's purpose in my opinion, I'm starting to feel low about it. sad

4 Apr 2007

Quote by jaymar
Dont feed the trolls folks

Ok hun

, I think this thread has possibly served it's purpose in my opinion, I'm starting to feel low about it. sad

i've noticed how they come out of the woodwork...when a thread like this comes up! rolleyes

4 Apr 2007

Quote by jaymar

well we bought all council house...it helped us no end...

Well done Mr Powers. You have summed Thatcherism up in one simple sentence. "Fuck everyone else, me and mine are OK!"
Lonni
excuse me??
where did i say "Fuck everyone else, me and mine are OK"?.....i don't want to be paying rent when i'm in my sixties,seventies or eighties...so we bought our council house...so what!..what we were paying in rent is now what we are paying in our mortgage...the difference is we are seeing something for our money...and something to pass onto our kids..so they can get a start on the property ladder!...i will not loose any sleep what you or anyone thinks...we did the right thing for our family and thats all i care about....my family!
I agree with you Mr.P. My friend who is single spent most of her life looking after her elderly parents. On her wage alone she couldn't have ever bought property but she was eligible to buy the council house she lived in therefore securing the roof over her parents head at that time and also her future. Well done I say. smile

exactly....when her parents die...where does that leave her... because she you could buy the council house she shared with her parents...not everyones in it to get rich quick!

4 Apr 2007

Quote by Mr-Powers

well we bought all council house...it helped us no end...

Well done Mr Powers. You have summed Thatcherism up in one simple sentence. "Fuck everyone else, me and mine are OK!"
Lonni
excuse me??
where did i say "Fuck everyone else, me and mine are OK"?.....i don't want to be paying rent when i'm in my sixties,seventies or eighties...so we bought our council house...so what!..what we were paying in rent is now what we are paying in our mortgage...the difference is we are seeing something for our money...and something to pass onto our kids..so they can get a start on the property ladder!...i will not loose any sleep what you or anyone thinks...we did the right thing for our family and thats all i care about....my family!
I agree with you Mr.P. My friend who is single spent most of her life looking after her elderly parents. On her wage alone she couldn't have ever bought property but she was eligible to buy the council house she lived in therefore securing the roof over her parents head at that time and also her future. Well done I say. smile

exactly....when her parents die...where does that leave her... because she you could buy the council house she shared with her parents...not everyones in it to get rich quick!
that's my point petal, they did die and she is now secure in her own home x

4 Apr 2007

Quote by Mr-Powers
Dont feed the trolls folks

Ok hun

, I think this thread has possibly served it's purpose in my opinion, I'm starting to feel low about it. sad

i've noticed how they come out of the woodwork...when a thread like this comes up! rolleyes

Best to leave em......They will crawl back into where ever they came from soon enough..... :thumbup:

4 Apr 2007

hmm...being a former merchant seaman who volunteered for the falklands task force etc and then 5 years later getting made redundant i tend to side with the miners!!!

4 Apr 2007

Quote by jaymar
Dont feed the trolls folks

Ok hun

, I think this thread has possibly served it's purpose in my opinion, I'm starting to feel low about it. sad

:therethere: :kiss:

4 Apr 2007

Excuse me. Can anyone hear me?
* pushes to the front of room *
Ooops sorry, didn't mean to stand on your foot.
* clears throat *
And I ask again. Can someone clarify for me exactly how Thatcher supposedly manufactured the Falklands War?
I'm not a damn Troll (although my hair resembles it right now) and am not trying to start a fight. I am just curious about that comment made wayyyyy early pre-council house debate in this post.
Yes I may be American so you are probably thinking "oh hush Yank for once y'all didn't start that war" Thing is though as some on here know I actually spent my childhood in this country and it happened to be under Thatcher. I remember the miners, I remember the right to buy, I remember poll tax and more importantly I remember The Falklands War. In no way did Thatcher manufature that. If you really feel the need to point blame you could always do what the Argentinians did and are doing once again ... point the finger a little further back in the English lineage.
Ok, ramble over ... patiently waiting for someone to maturely (instead of sarcasm please ;) ) tell me if I am wrong. I don't mind being wrong, really.

4 Apr 2007

she didn't start it...not to my knowledge,but they did have adequate inteeligence to know it was gonna happen!!(supposedly like bush with 9/11.)
she helped scupper the british merchant marine by not exempting tax laws thus letting foreign poorer countries step in.

4 Apr 2007

Thatcher manufactured the war with Argentina in the same way that she manufactured the war with the miners. Both were cynical acts of political posturing designed to cement her place in history.

:sparring: duel

:sparring: :duel::sparring: :duel:
you dont start a war to cement your place in history, you might do it for oil or territory, ( I would except certain dictators have) but I can't see how you can lay that one at her door. Debates are great but you have to have correct facts if you stand any chance of people taking you seriously.
I'm sure there is a documentary on TV 25 years on but can't find it.

4 Apr 2007

I used to collect trolls but never fed them biggrin

It was said earlier in the thread that civil servants set policy rather than politicians. I have just finished working closely with government and it was a strange experience over the last 4 years and I am glad to no longer be part of it. Politicians in the cabinet do through their manifesto set out their stall and then its up to civil servants to advise them. Most of their advice to government is purchased off non elected agencies or consultants - this I did find very worrying as in my field I felt politicians were sometimes given advise which was not well researched with any evidence of impact. There are 1 million people working in non elected bodies who advise government - not counting the 1,000s of consultants.
Advise Thatcher would have been given would have been the intelligence surrounding the tory manifesto at the time. If all these advisers were sacked, the civil service would just grow again anyway. The sad thing I learnt when working in this field is that when it comes down to it, all parties have more in common than differences. Politics these days is superficial, based upon personalities rather than in depth evidence of long term benefits to the country and also these day for the global economy and environment.

4 Apr 2007

Quote by Abilene
Excuse me. Can anyone hear me?
* pushes to the front of room *
Ooops sorry, didn't mean to stand on your foot.
* clears throat *
And I ask again. Can someone clarify for me exactly how Thatcher supposedly manufactured the Falklands War?

Abilene, I hear you. lol

Okay, it depends what you mean by “manufactured”. You couldn’t accuse Thatcher of starting it, the Argentinians definitely invaded the Falklands, but she certainly kept it going and exploited it for her own ends. The president of Argentina, General Galtieri, is said to have decided to invade to draw the attention of his people away from Argentina’s increasing economic problems.
Argentina captured the islands at the start of April 1982 and soon had about 10,000 troops based on the Falklands. During the rest of April, Al Haig, the US Secretary of State, travelled back and forth between Britain, Argentina, and New York, to try to broker an agreement unsuccessfully, while Thatcher sent a task force sailing to the islands.
Peace proposals and offers of mediation were all turned down by Thatcher – one came from the President of Peru, another from the UN. She seemed determined to go to war. She overruled the navy chiefs and orders the Argentinian troopship Belgrano to be sunk, killing over 400 men. All evidence points to the fact that the ship was sailing away from the Falklands back to port in Argentina at the time it was sunk, so it was an act of extreme provocation by Thatcher.
She rejected a United Nations peace proposal in the middle of May, a few days before the task force arrived at the islands. She also rejected the Pope’s offers to mediate – he was in England at the time.
So the war which many people think could have been avoided took place, lasted about a month, and cost nearly a thousand lives in all.
Many people think that she was just determined to have her war, to give herself an image like her hero Churchill, whom she always referred to in hushed reverential tones as “Winston”. (Most people who knew Churchill say that he would have loathed her – he hated assertive women. There is no evidence that they ever met, although their times as Tory MPs overlapped by about five years.) It certainly gave her party a big boost at the opinion polls, as the Tories had been in a sharp decline before the war. They ended up a year later in 1983 winning the general election easily.
So yes, in that she kept it going and rejected all offers of mediation, and was determined to have her war by any way possible, I think it was largely of her manufacture.

4 Apr 2007

in very reserved terms, lp would like to say, he's not all that keen on Mrs Thatcher.
lp

4 Apr 2007

hmmmm

4 Apr 2007

In a week that has highlighted the weak, inept and quite frankly disgraceful government this country has to endure at present, she would piss all over the current incumbent.

4 Apr 2007

deleted

4 Apr 2007

Mike North :- one of the things I love about this site is the ability to have a mature discussion with points of view from all angles. So with said I thank you for your angle on what I asked.
I guess my only issue with what you said is that while you mention the Argentinian warship you failed to mention the two British ones that were sunk, one of which was in a 'stand down' position at the time. You fail to mention the 3 Falkland civilians killed (not going to quote losses on both military sides), you also fail to mention that the Falkland Islanders who have lived on thise islands for many generations who are adamntly opposed to being forced under Argentinian control. You also fail to mention that the Argentinian government has even refused the offer of shipping home the bodies of the deceased soldiers so that they can be put to rest near their families. The same Argentinian government that refuses to allow flights to or from the islands so the families can even visit their graves there.
Yes, Thatcher had her faults but to say that she prolonged the war is a little outlandish (in my opinion). The Argentinians surrendered (quite rightly - again in my opinion) after two months when they realised they had severely underestimated the British resolve to not be bullied.
May I ask what kind of message it would have sent if a impoverished and politically troubled nation (as they were at the time) could take from Britain a country the size of Wales. It would (in my opinion) send the message that a larger more well equiped country (say China, Russia or *gasp* the US) could take a shot at oh say Britain.
Just my thoughts.
* going back to my corner now ... Missy where the hell are ya ;) *

4 Apr 2007

Quote by MikeNorth
She overruled the navy chiefs and orders the Argentinian troopship Belgrano to be sunk, killing over 400 men. All evidence points to the fact that the ship was sailing away from the Falklands back to port in Argentina, so it was an act of extreme provocation by Thatcher.

The Belgrano was a cruiser not a troopship. It had a complement of 1000+ and enough firepower to hinder the landings.
The British set the exclusion zone, yet the Agentinians flew sorties from outside this. So maybe the Belgrano was sailing away from the exclusion zone at the time.......but it could have turned around and caused mayhem. Who is to blame for the sinking.....the Argentinians should not have let it leave port, then it would not have been sunk.
The Argentinians did have a carrier fleet at sea as well. If the two fleets had met then it would have been the first fleet action since WWII. With the armaments of both sides......experts say the British navy was very lucky the other fleet returned to port (they had a false report that the British submarines were in the area).

Quote by MikeNorth
Argentina captured the islands at the start of April 1982 and soon had about 10,000 troops based on the Falklands. During the rest of April, Al Haig, the US Secretary of State, travelled back and forth between Britain, Argentina, and New York, to try to broker an agreement unsuccessfully, while Thatcher sends a task force sailing to the islands.

What were the terms to this agreement? Only an unconditional removal from soverign soil would be aceptable to me. The Argentinians didn't want this as they had invaded for popularity anyway......so to back down would not have been an option to them. If the task force hadn't set sail then they would have had more time to prepare defences.........even now there is over 100+ minefields on the islands.
This is the time line for the Falklands war you will see that the Junta were going to invade whatever peace negotiations. They needed to stay in power. It just backfired because the UK did not backdown. The UK did backdown once to prevent a war.....and the Prime minister was Chamberline.....unfortunately backing down gave the others the feeling that they should take more.......and the result was the biggest casualty list the world has seen to date.
So should countries back down or stand up.........it is always easier with hindsight.
Dave_Notts