I think that we can safely say being members of this 'community' that being judged by others, at all, or from something that is in the media is wrong.
Unless you know these people personally and have walked a mile in their shoes you have no facts on which to base your judgement and damning attitude.
splendid
So you agree thats its right to become or try to become pregnant, knowing full well that your baby is going to be born addicted to methadone?
Nice values you have there....
Like your original post you are basing your judgement of me and my values on little or no information.
You don't know me. You don't know them. You (or anyone else) have no right to judge anyone.
splendid
I think on this that we side with Mrcoupleseekfun on this!!!
Why did the local NHS give then this treatment whilst they were still on a heroin substitute!!!
Its not a god given right to have children & as there still addicts not reformed addicts, because there on methadone which is a substitute for heroin .
What happens to these two babies if the parents fail to stay the course & go back to heroin not a good life for two small children if there parents go back back on the heroin .
Its probably one of those typical clerical errors which the addicts took advantage of, whilst everyone else assumed it was unlikely they would attempt to have children. So I don't think it was sanctioned as a viable thing in the first place.
I expect they really wanted children to have something to live for and get them back onto the straight and narrow. So went ahead with the treatment.
Kids born with addictions sounds pretty frightening, but it goes on around the world and there are sufficient support systems to help them. So its not as bad as one imagines.
Perhaps it may all be a happy ending.
Im almost certain by now Social Services will have stepped in. The childrens act provides a 'duty of care' and if,as reported, the children were born addicted then Social Services will already be involved
with this family. IMO these people shouldnt be condemed but helped.
We could argue that when they first 'scored' heroin they had the choice to say no but no one knows the circumstances and not everyone has the strength or is of adequete mentality to say no. Some of us here have teenage kids and I for one can say, 'there but for the grace of god'.Unfortunately, our kids are growing up in a drug culture where its now considered normal to experiment. We can only hope that our own kids will have had a loving upbringing, knowing whats right and whats wrong and knowing that for every action there is a consequence.
In the case of this particular couple I hope they are getting all the help they can for their problem and that eventually the methadone programe works for them and they try to bring their kids up knowing the dangers of drug use.
If the babies have been born with addictions which were, if you like, "man made" then have they not been abused? And therefore is the NHS not guility of aiding and abetting the abuse?
Think the babies need a good Human Rights lawyer............Cherie........ where are you?
John & Shel
Sorry but I too sit on the side of MrCouples here..
The very idea that a couple who are being given methadone (by prescription no doubt) leaves me cold.. No way in a million years no matter how many miles I would walk in there shoes or otherwise.. think they be suited for fertility treatment.
Dress it how ever you like its wrong....
Mike x
have to agree....it does sound crazy....their rehabilitation should have been more important than having children...get clean,stay clean then consider having children...just wonder if the doctor wasn't just trying to be controversal to start with by giving the go ahead!
plenty has been said about the rights and wrongs of this, but isnt there a possibility that the focus of the parents will now be on the child, therefore giving them enough drive to get clean?
Sorry splendid but i dont agree with you, im as liberal and non judgmental as a sensible man can be but im with Mr Couple 110% of the way on this topic.
Why should people who are addicted to heroin and on a detox methodone programe be given the chance to have fertility treatment which will possibly lead to conception of unborn child/ren who have methode effects raging throughout their tiny bodies. They didnt ask to be pumped full of the horrible drug that is coursing through the womens blood into her womb and subsequently into the blood of her unborn child.
A few of my opinions:
The people on methodone should have thought about it and decided to wait untill they were "clean" before embarking on fertility treatment
The local NHS should be more sensible as this has /can and will undoubtedly lead to much criticism and therefore embarrassment for them.
Other people ie non methode detox programme couples should have been given the chance to have the fertility treatment before this couple whilst they were detoxing. There are thousands of couples throughout the country who could have benefited from it and produced healthy children who for no fault of there poor little selves are ravaged by a very nasty side effect inducing drug.
There is always room for people to be tolerant and non - judgmental slendid i think Mr C was just airing his views (for which he is entitled) and im sure the broader public consensus of opinion would concur and favour his viewpoint. It doesn't mean we are bigoted judgmental cretins its just common sense.
you are all absolutely right...
why let facts stand in the way of a perfectly good haranguing, bullying and vilifying session?
splendid
<just squinting at the AUP>
Think we can accept that others have a different point of view without agreeing with it.
:shock:
i do not have an opinion on if this treatment should have happened or not but i just thought i would mention that:
methadone is harder to wean off than heroin and many people remain on small amounts of methadone for the rest of time, unable to cope with the awful side affects of completely giving up the substitute, others do manage to be totally dependant free.
babies withdrawal depends on the amount off substitute that the mothers have been taking during pregnancy, some who take very little amounts show no signs of withdrawal others have a terrible time (these are usually from mothers that have taken both heroin and methadone)
also babies can withdraw from many of the things we take in pregnancy such as alcohol or prescription drugs for pain relief such as df118 and these babies suffer just as much as the babies from hard drugs....
the powers that be.. must have thought about this decision long and hard before making the decision to allow fertitity treatment, all we can hope for is that these parents provide a safe loving home for these children, having come from care i sincerley hope they do and that they dont allow the babies to end up in the same position they were once in.
even hard working middle classes can be on methodone.
have we suddenly started to believe that what the papers say is true?
i say this as even local non sensational papers get "facts" wrong.
should we forbid anyone who has any habit or activity we consider as wrong not to recieve certain things?
we know the pct's cock up. but so do reporters and humans.
xx fem xx
It's not really out of context, comparison or not, you believe that those attributes make your friends more worthy of IVF - I don't think that any of them were relevant, other than the fact they don't take drugs. The assumption you offered is that the people on methadone are neither hardworking nor middle class - isn't it possible that they are both?
