Trust

7 Jun 2005

how do you trust in a swinging relationship?
why are there no "hes bigger then me", "shes thinner than me", "does he fancy her more than me" and ultimately "did she take his number"
I have yet to see a single post on here showing any sign of the green eyed monster, im sure it exists somewhere... anyone experienced this, if you have how did you combat it?
i'll leave it at that for now,
Nic
x

7 Jun 2005

i think if you dont trust eachother then u shouldnt be swinging, plus i think that its just sex, its like me and mr bailiff for example we want to always be together but the thought of never sleeping with anybody else is abit shitty. All it is is sex. The way i accept it is, that we arnt out to have affairs or anything its just no strings fun, and i think that if your not happy with your body or insecure that it may just break you. Whats the point of putting yourself through hell if you're parranoid that you arn't sexy enough for him???? im a very jealous person but only if i see someone cracking onto him, with swinging ........ well in our case we are both there and neither of us are being unfaithfull but the most important thing is that niether of us are going elsewhere because we are unhappy with eachothers appearances but simply because we want to share different sexual experiences with other people.
sorry ill shut up now..... rolleyes

louxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

7 Jun 2005

Ithink its more tha 'trust'
there is a sort of understanding too
whether that is soft swap or only once with another couple
because there are a load of wayne kerrs out there it helps us to focus on what we want and what we dont want
that sorts out the mfm mff and mfmf
i dont think its the same set of rules or boundrys for gang banging ,multi participant dogging or for bukkake
maybe some who does that can add there perspective to this thread

7 Jun 2005

I think the answer is don't swing unless you have a secure and loving relationship. We have never been overcome by the green eyed monster.

7 Jun 2005

Quote by bailiffs
well in our case we are both there and neither of us are being unfaithfull but the most important thing is that niether of us are going elsewhere because we are happy
louxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

i agree with you completely there
after reading some of the responses i dont think that was exactly what i ment and i know that if there is any dbout in your mind you shouldnt be swinging at all.
although you are swingers do you class yourself as in an open relationship, i personally wouldnt.
Now dont trash me for what im about to say, its just my opinion, what conserns me partly is the single swingers on here with partners who have no idea they are swinging... thats not swinging, thats purely cheating.
I would be more concerned with my partner (not that he would) thinking "well we swing so its ok if i go and have sex with xxxx with out him/her they wont mind and its not really cheating"
thats sort of what i wanted to get across..
i still dont think im making myself clear on this..
nic
x

7 Jun 2005

Yes, huge green eyed monster :shock:
Stopped swinging confused

7 Jun 2005

Quote by bailiffs
All it is is sex. The way i accept it is, that we arnt out to have affairs or anything its just no strings fun

I'd agree with that. I think it's when it becomes anything more than just sex that it begins to get messy. Sex with other people is great, but if someone you care about has actual feelings for someone else, that's when the green eyed monster inevitably rears it's very ugly head.

7 Jun 2005

Quote by Nicola&Alan
Now dont trash me for what im about to say, its just my opinion, what conserns me partly is the single swingers on here with partners who have no idea they are swinging... thats not swinging, thats purely cheating.

That'sa whole other topic. imho

Quote by Nicola&Alan
I would be more concerned with my partner (not that he would) thinking "well we swing so its ok if i go and have sex with xxxx with out him/her they wont mind and its not really cheating"
nic
x

I'm sure you sat down and discussed the issue of what was and what wasn't acceptable to bothof you, and agreed your "boundaries" ??
If you are asking questions (even just in your head) about swinging alone/separately, then maybe it's time to sit down again and talk about your boundaries. If only to reiterate your feelings.
I think as time goes on, and you experience more and more; most initial boundaries are able to be re-evaluated ?? By that, I mean they are at least open to discussion - beforethey are crossed - or even stretched.
Clearly; there will be absolute no-no's, but I think they are more to do with whatyou want and don't want to do. Pain/ws etc. I'm thinking about more about they wayyou swing being open to discussion.
As an example - Some might start their swinging by only allowing a third person, of one sex joining them. After a while they might both be open to the idea of swinging with both sexes.
Hope that makes a little sense. It did in my head lol

7 Jun 2005

I have seen some signs of jealousy at clubs. This is usually when peeps forget themselves and get rampant etc.
Otherwise if you are contacting through other indirect sources, the vetting process more or less narrows its down to yourself and the other swingers. By which time trust should be established anyway.

7 Jun 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
I have seen some signs of jealousy at clubs. This is usually when peeps forget themselves and get rampant that would have been possible, surely if you are there as a couple you play as a couple? or am i wearing blinkers?

I would be more concerned with my partner (not that he would) thinking "well we swing so its ok if i go and have sex with xxxx with out him/her they wont mind and its not really cheating"
nic
x

Quote by duncanlondon
I'm sure you sat down and discussed the issue of what was and what wasn't acceptable to both of you, and agreed your "boundaries" ??

7 Jun 2005

Quote by Nicola&Alan
i still dont think im making myself clear on this..
nic
x

Well why don't you think through what you are going to say first and then say what you mean FFS rolleyes

7 Jun 2005

Quote by Nicola&Alan
Now dont trash me for what im about to say, its just my opinion, what conserns me partly is the single swingers on here with partners who have no idea they are swinging... thats not swinging, thats purely cheating.

I think most swingers would agree with you that it is cheating plain and simple, it has been a topic of hot debate on here before, some on either side and some in the middle. Personally I think each person is liable to there own conscience. If they are honest to those in the swinging relationship then I personally feel that that is for them.
Obviously that someone is looking outside their own long term relationship shows there are problems in that relationship, but that is for them. Also if the other partner finds out then there will be some big erruptions.

Quote by Nicola&Alan
I would be more concerned with my partner (not that he would) thinking "well we swing so its ok if i go and have sex with xxxx with out him/her they wont mind and its not really cheating"

Well this comes down to good communication, if you talk this through then it would not happen. Then again we are talking thoughts and I think we all fantasise. I certainly have in my time but love Mrs TnH no less.

7 Jun 2005

Quote by westerross

i still dont think im making myself clear on this..
nic
x

Well why don't you think through what you are going to say first and then say what you mean FFS rolleyes

! Cheating is a very touchy subject on here and it doesn't bear half baked questions and people 'developing' their arguments as they go along!! Be much safer in the long run. This was done to death only a couple of weeks ago and people got hurt.
your quite right, i should have made myself clear from the beginning, however, i have not once accused anyone of cheating nor am i going to, im expressing my opinion. Nor am i trying to argue anything i was looking for other peoples opinions.
Although not eloquently put my question has been somewhat answered and as Dambuster said, the whole cheating thing is an entirely different topic, and not one i was about to get into a debate about... i was more interested in trust and how it is formed and broken.
And more specifically not that i have asked yet but im about to, what happens when trust is broken in the past.. how do you go about letting your heart trust another (this has nothing to do with love IMHO) maybe that should have been the first question i asked!!
The last thing i want to do in the forum is cause fights because i asked a not very well put together question.
Nic
x

7 Jun 2005

Quote by Nicola&Alan
I have seen some signs of jealousy at clubs. This is usually when peeps forget themselves and get rampant that would have been possible, surely if you are there as a couple you play as a couple? or am i wearing blinkers?

I would be more concerned with my partner (not that he would) thinking "well we swing so its ok if i go and have sex with xxxx with out him/her they wont mind and its not really cheating"
nic
x

Quote by duncanlondon?????
I'm sure you sat down and discussed the issue of what was and what wasn't acceptable to both of you, and agreed your "boundaries" ??

i agree with that, ive had boundaries before and stuck to them, im not the lying cheating type (again dont shoot me down) but there are others out there that will negotiate boundaries go to a different room and forget all about them... then what?
Forgive me, nic - I'm a little confused.
Are your questions/thoughts about you or people and swinging, in general?

7 Jun 2005

A bit of both Dambuster
I was asking in general for other folks opinions, plus airing a few of my own.
i seem to have confused too many folks now redface

7 Jun 2005

Quote by Nicola&Alan
A bit of both Dambuster
I was asking in general for other folks opinions, plus airing a few of my own.
i seem to have confused too many folks now

Don't worry nic - I'm easily confused. I am after all - a mere bloke :rotflmao:
As for regaining trust - no matter how many different ways I try to look at that - trust is trust, regardless of swinging or not. It's needed and vital in any relationship. Personally, I find it to be the cornerstone of a lot of things.
Me personally - I believe it can be regained, just as apologies can be real, sincere, honest, genuine and heartfelt. The road to acceptance of both can be long and arduous, but well worth it in the end.

8 Jun 2005

Sorry for the harsh reaction before Nic but I just didn't want to see another free for all on the subject.
I'm not sure I agree with Dammie here. In my view trust is a rock - once broken it stays broken. Apologies are words - they are ephemeral and history is sprinkled with heartfelt apologies meaning absolutely nothing as soon as cirumstances change. That's not to say some don't stick but on balance they not worth the paper they're rarely written on.

8 Jun 2005

Quote by westerross
Sorry for the harsh reaction before Nic but I just didn't want to see another free for all on the subject.

I had no intentions of it being a free for all on cheating, that really wasnt the subject matter i was after... it was more of a trust thing
Im kinda in agreeance with you that trust is a rock and once broken with a person it can be put back together but never fixed.
And yes, appologies although make you feel better at the time, are rarely ment and never last long.
But when you move on and find a new mate, do you start with a new rock of trust or a little pebble? Can you trust your new partner or do you have to earn it? also should you tar them with the same brush although you know they are not the same? and how do you let go of the past so it doesnt come and bite you in the arse?
nic
x

8 Jun 2005

Trust is different for everyone where it begins or ends varies from person to person, length of relationship, type of relationship prior to loss of trust etc.
In my own case I used to swing with my first wife and she became jealous of certain types of women ( Large breasted Blondes) my type has always been small breasted Brunettes ??? Shouldnâ€™t cause a problem you think!! No the mere presence at parties would cause issues. So we gave up swinging and eventually divorced (yes she became a cheat).
Iâ€™m now remarried have been for 11 years and I trust her unconditionally and always have she hasnâ€™t had to earn trust it should just be there, if it isnâ€™t itâ€™s a problem within yourself not with your partner.
I say this because my ex has now undergone psychiatric & hypnotherapy and the jealousy was related to unresolved childhood issues (her mum was a large breasted blonde who was a serial cheat)
So look into yourself for the answers nobody else can give them to you.

8 Jun 2005

What a can of worms!
I suppose I am in a position were by definition I am cheating (or at least considering it) on my partner by resuming my lifestyle choice without her knowledge. Now, regardless of what anyone else thinks of my choice, it is mine to make and I have "squared" it with myself.
Hand on heart, I cannot say that I would be able restore my trust in my partner 100% should the shoe be on the other foot. Having said that, I'm pretty sure that if my partner did discover my "dirty little secret", it would be a terminal event in our relationship.

8 Jun 2005

Quote by Nicola&Alan
But when you move on and find a new mate, do you start with a new rock of trust or a little pebble?

It has got to be a rock not a pebble. You have to assume that the trust is there to start. If you start with a pebble you will either waste time with a trustworthy partner or you will poison the relationship by insisting that each has to earn the other's trust - very passive - very long-winded and prone to expressions of distrust and therefore (possibly unwarranted) disaster. Starting with a rock is risky - it tests your powers of judgement and can turn out to painful if you're wrong BUT it is also the thrill of placing one's trust in someone and hopefully having it justified.
Good positive topic - I think as long as it stays on trust and not the breaking of it.

8 Jun 2005

I think the best thing anyone can do in a broken trust relationship, or with a new relationship haunted by an ex, is take it day by day and slowly go over the hurdles when you get to them...
and remember that your new partner is not and will never be your ex

8 Jun 2005

Some of these opinions are very black and white. I think there are too many variables to be so definitive about this. Each person is so different, and consequently so is each relationship so I agree with Judy on this.
Surely for some, trust will be a fragile thing that must be coddled and once bumped too hard seems shattered beyond repair, but for others trust might become a bit tarnished but can be polished up to its former brilliance and even more. And all the variations inbetween that you can imagine.
And there are flavours of trust, degrees of trust etc.
So to say, don't swing if you have any doubts seems a bit daft to me. Jealousy is a messenger like any other emotion, and not necessarily a no go area. I'm reading an interesting book at the moment (The Ethical Slut) and have just started the chapter on jealousy and I think it has a lot of useful things to say about it.
However, it hasn't explained to me why I feel relatively ok about my ex (possibly to be partner again) dating, having sex with dates, and even relationships but feel absolute despair at the prospect of her swinging without me there. There is no logic and this stuff is fiendishly difficult to suss out, but probably well worth the effort.
I'd be interested in any other jealousy experiences and what people learned from them, whether they overcame them, and if so how etc. etc.
Nicola - thanks for starting a fascinating thread - I don't think it is necessary to think things through completely before posting something. Surely one of the points of posting is to have others help you figure something out! So please don't hold back, but keep posting interesting q's like this.
Mark x
My entry for quote of the thread (spoken in a, well Yodaish voice) :
"Jealousy, the shadow of greed it is" - Yoda
A very wise half pint Jedi?

9 Jun 2005

Quote by h256
Some of these opinions are very black and white.......And there are flavours of trust, degrees of trust etc.

When it comes to trust it has got to be black or white. You either trust someone or you don't. You cannot half trust someone can you? 'Degrees' of trust imply that you could.
Nic, I think in a broken trust relationship you are right that all you can do is take things day by day. In a new relationship you shouldn't let an ex haunt it because the new partner is an entirely different person. I know this is difficult if one has been hurt but a faithless ghost from the past will poison any relationship because to not trust a new partner is, by definition, a lack of trust.

9 Jun 2005

I think there are a lot of values which do not which do not run according to the text book.
Many of us have trust spoiled constantly at work. But we just consider this as part of the job.
The small print in the agreement.
How many of us pay for 'piece of mind' when buying a new product.
Trust is sometimes supported by a 'guarantee'.
But then we go to the 'professionals', who we often trust completely and absolutely to do things to us or for us. We trust like in this in situations beyond our normal control.
So with swinging we trust because we believe its all under control. That our partner will derive as much pleasure from another but no more than is expected. Or that emotions will not go beyond certain limits.
I think jealously is strongly related to conditions and people and the control we feel we have over them.

9 Jun 2005

Quote by bailiffs
i think if you dont trust eachother then u shouldnt be swinging, plus i think that its just sex, its like me and mr bailiff for example we want to always be together but the thought of never sleeping with anybody else is abit shitty. All it is is sex. The way i accept it is, that we arnt out to have affairs or anything its just no strings fun, and i think that if your not happy with your body or insecure that it may just break you. Whats the point of putting yourself through hell if you're parranoid that you arn't sexy enough for him???? im a very jealous person but only if i see someone cracking onto him, with swinging ........ well in our case we are both there and neither of us are being unfaithfull but the most important thing is that niether of us are going elsewhere because we are happy with eachothers appearances but simply because we want to share different sexual experiences with other people.
sorry ill shut up now.....
louxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Well young, and got it so worked out, together.
My compliments to you both.
cc_7up

9 Jun 2005

Quote by westerross
Some of these opinions are very black and white.......And there are flavours of trust, degrees of trust etc.

When it comes to trust it has got to be black or white. You either trust someone or you don't. You cannot half trust someone can you? 'Degrees' of trust imply that you could.

For you this may be so, but not for me. For example, I may trust my partner to keep to agreed boundaries in one kind of situation, but know that in another it would be extremely hard for her to do so - I also know my partner is a human being and can make mistakes. I would want her to try to avoid getting into the latter kind of situation, but it might still arise. Or perhaps she was just emotionally vulnerable.
So if she crosses an agreed boundary my trust is not broken beyond repair, but I am hurt and will trust less until I feel that we have adequately dealt with this (i.e. discussed what happened, why, my feelings, her feelings etc etc.). Then my trust will be rebuilt. If this process fails, then my trust would be broken. Hence degrees of trust.
Duncan - What about the example I've given? Can your trust not be undermined (i.e. put into doubt rather than broken) by a human failure, or would it always either stay rock solid or be smashed beyond repair (presumably depending on the nature of the boundary that was broken and the impact it had on you)? I guess that is an example of what I mean by degrees of trust - trust may be put in doubt, but the doubt can be removed, thus restoring trust.
Another (perhaps better) example is that as I get to know a partner better, our relationship deepens which strengthens my trust, making it easier to for me to trust them in a given situation.
Thanks
Mark

9 Jun 2005

ECHO ECHO ECHO ECHO
redface

I doubt I have anything constructive to add - but that has never stopped me before, so I am probably just echoing what has already been said.
Swinging does not breed trust of mis-trust, it puts what is already there into sharp focus. Most relationships have the safety net of following marraige vows or social conventions to shield them from the impact any mis-trust between partners. When you adopt a swinging lifestyle, you remove that safety net and those little cracks become increasingly influential.
Kit and I trust each other, but it is not just about us as individuals, but about how we work together as a couple. Our trust is not just to do with individual actions, it is also a great deal about trusting how we will react to each others actions.
To answer the original question, one skill that we have had to improve in order to have the trust we need, is the ability to think objectively about our own feelings and express those feelings in a non-threatening way. e.g. rather than saying "you have pissed me off" saying "I feel pissed off" (usually followed by ... I am not sure why and I need to talk about it")
lhk
Kat

9 Jun 2005

Quote by cc_7up
i think if you dont trust eachother then u shouldnt be swinging, plus i think that its just sex, its like me and mr bailiff for example we want to always be together but the thought of never sleeping with anybody else is abit shitty. All it is is sex. The way i accept it is, that we arnt out to have affairs or anything its just no strings fun, and i think that if your not happy with your body or insecure that it may just break you. Whats the point of putting yourself through hell if you're parranoid that you arn't sexy enough for him???? im a very jealous person but only if i see someone cracking onto him, with swinging ........ well in our case we are both there and neither of us are being unfaithfull but the most important thing is that niether of us are going elsewhere because we are happy with eachothers appearances but simply because we want to share different sexual experiences with other people.
sorry ill shut up now.....
louxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Well young, and got it so worked out, together.
My compliments to you both.
cc_7up
mwah biggrin

9 Jun 2005

Lou, does that mean you guys swing on your own....or just as a couple?
just wondering wink