I thought we had an earlier thread for this too.
I'm of two minds. Is the Judge right to tell the hoteliers that they had no right to refuse the gay couple a double room because it was against their religion?
It was more of a B&B as I recall than a hotel per-se; does that make a difference? It is their home after all rather than an anonymous hotel...
Join the most popular community of UK swingers now
Login
Christian Hotel case
I would think that the judge is right, because they were running a business and shouldn't really be able to discriminate on the grounds of religious preferences, but then nobody should and we all know that this isn't the case with other religions and other circumstances. I know of naturist B&B's that refuse to let people wear clothes, and "gay only" B&B's that refuse heterosexual couples. I also know of some muslim-run "hotels" that refuse Jewish people. The answer is quite simple - don't stay if you're not welcome and they lose the money.
If you are a hotel or B&B.....you sell rooms for hire in reality. You should not be able to discrimiate on grounds of colour, religion, age, or sexual preferance. Simple.
I don't actually believe it is anything to do with religion, in this case but pure discrimination . However if you really do have strong religious views, then don't run a business that allows you to come into contact with people that may offend you.
I don't actually believe it is anything to do with religion, in this case but pure discrimination . However if you really do have strong religious views, then don't run a business that allows you to come into contact with people that may offend you.
Sex God
What struck me was - do these people actually think you can't have sex in a single bed?
They were in the wrong - legally and business-wise. They can dictate what happens in their home - but the minute they use rooms for profit, taking payment, paying tax and abiding by the various legislations that go with offering accomodation to paying guests - those rooms ceased to be, in any practical way, their home. They are running a business - as such they have no business imposing their personal choices on others.
The owners and others havbe commented that their own freedoms were somehow under attack - they did not at any time have their rights or freedoms threatened. No-one stood there and said - you must change your behaviour - you must pretend you are something you aren't. What freedom do they feel was attacked? Apart from the freedom to discriminate.
There is no freedom to impose your life-choices on others - it's not like these guys were at it in the dining room, or inviting them in for a bit of fun. The guest-couple did not impose their life on the hotel-couple.
Do these hotel owners feel they can pick and choose which legislation they will obey? If that's the case, lets allow hotels to not bother with refrigerating the food - fridges are expensive, let's have them lock the fire-doors or remove the fire-escapes. They are an expensive inconvenience - all that cost and bother having them installed and inspected.
That other hotels are known to discriminate doesn't make this case acceptable - it means the other hotels should be forced to comply with, what is after all, UK legislation or close.
They were in the wrong - legally and business-wise. They can dictate what happens in their home - but the minute they use rooms for profit, taking payment, paying tax and abiding by the various legislations that go with offering accomodation to paying guests - those rooms ceased to be, in any practical way, their home. They are running a business - as such they have no business imposing their personal choices on others.
The owners and others havbe commented that their own freedoms were somehow under attack - they did not at any time have their rights or freedoms threatened. No-one stood there and said - you must change your behaviour - you must pretend you are something you aren't. What freedom do they feel was attacked? Apart from the freedom to discriminate.
There is no freedom to impose your life-choices on others - it's not like these guys were at it in the dining room, or inviting them in for a bit of fun. The guest-couple did not impose their life on the hotel-couple.
Do these hotel owners feel they can pick and choose which legislation they will obey? If that's the case, lets allow hotels to not bother with refrigerating the food - fridges are expensive, let's have them lock the fire-doors or remove the fire-escapes. They are an expensive inconvenience - all that cost and bother having them installed and inspected.
That other hotels are known to discriminate doesn't make this case acceptable - it means the other hotels should be forced to comply with, what is after all, UK legislation or close.
Quote by foxylady2209
They were in the wrong - legally and business-wise. They can dictate what happens in their home - but the minute they use rooms for profit, taking payment, paying tax and abiding by the various legislations that go with offering accomodation to paying guests - those rooms ceased to be, in any practical way, their home. They are running a business - as such they have no business imposing their personal choices on others.
No idea on the rest but if they have 3 or less bedrooms for use as a B&B then it is still a private residence if the owners live on site.
If they have more or the owners do not live there (not just sleep over), that premise becomes a commercial premise.
Dave_Notts
Sex God
Quote by essex34m
the gay couple should have booked a hotel where they would not have encountered this problem.
As I understand it, there were no signs or notices saying that same sex couples were not welcome.
The reason they were made to feel like lepers was because the hotel-couple decided the guests weren't married. But they had been through a civil ceremony which for (I understand) all legal purposes bar the name, is marriage.
Quote by duncanlondon
Sounds like an unfortunate meeting on both sides.
the b&b couple sound like a pair of weird creeps.
the gay couple should have booked a hotel where they would not have encountered this problem.
The suggestion (unconfirmed of course) is that the "hotel" was deliberately targeted by Stonewall to prove a point - which they of course did.
By all accounts, a civil partnership seems to take precedence these days over a properly conducted marriage and Christian beliefs.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Sounds like an unfortunate meeting on both sides.
the b&b couple sound like a pair of weird creeps.
the gay couple should have booked a hotel where they would not have encountered this problem.
The suggestion (unconfirmed of course) is that the "hotel" was deliberately targeted by Stonewall to prove a point - which they of course did.
By all accounts, a civil partnership seems to take precedence these days over a properly conducted marriage and Christian beliefs.
No it doesn't. I've never heard anyone claim it does. But it stands equal.
Quote by deancannock
I can't see it makes any differance if you married or not.....this is year 2011 .... not everyone gets married !!!
Fact is the guy that ran the B&B was a bigot and discriminated against people on their sexuality.
I fully support their right to Christian values. This may be bigotted to you but not to them or millions of other practising christians. This support of mine runs into their family home and their right to live the way they wish.
Where my support stops is when they have a commercial interest and then try to put their beliefs on others. This is where they lose my support and the two guys gain my support.
Dave_Notts
Quote by deancannock
If you are a hotel or B&B.....you sell rooms for hire in reality. You should not be able to discrimiate on grounds of colour, religion, age, or sexual preferance. Simple.
I don't actually believe it is anything to do with religion, in this case but pure discrimination . However if you really do have strong religious views, then don't run a business that allows you to come into contact with people that may offend you.
It has everything to do with religion... or rather the religious beliefs of the people running the B&B/hotel. They believe that homosexuality is wrong and didn't want a gay couple staying in their establishment.
I agree with duncanlondon... why didn't the gay couple accept this and find another place to stay?
Quote by duncanlondon
the gay couple should have booked a hotel where they would not have encountered this problem.
Sex God
Quote by browning
I wonder if it had been a hotel owned by muslim people if the case would have turned out different.......
And I wonder why you wonder that....well I have my suspicions, but I'm still perplexed as to what the connection is
Quote by spideyuk
If you are a hotel or B&B.....you sell rooms for hire in reality. You should not be able to discrimiate on grounds of colour, religion, age, or sexual preferance. Simple.
I don't actually believe it is anything to do with religion, in this case but pure discrimination . However if you really do have strong religious views, then don't run a business that allows you to come into contact with people that may offend you.
It has everything to do with religion... or rather the religious beliefs of the people running the B&B/hotel. They believe that homosexuality is wrong and didn't want a gay couple staying in their establishment.
I agree with duncanlondon... why didn't the gay couple accept this and find another place to stay?
Quote by duncanlondon
the gay couple should have booked a hotel where they would not have encountered this problem.
oh right so you think the people who own the B&B should be allowed to break the law, and discriminate. The law abiding couple, that just happen to be Gay, who are not breaking any law, should be made to move on and find alternative accommadation !!
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I wonder if it had been a hotel owned by muslim people if the case would have turned out different.......
And I wonder why you wonder that....well I have my suspicions, but I'm still perplexed as to what the connection is
Well it won't be racism
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
How can it be racist ?? unless the only people you believe to be british are white .....british people come from all races and religions....see the clue is in the word RACISM this is pertinent to race not nationality.
An idiot short sighted policy it may be but racist?? clearly not
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
I wonder if it had been a hotel owned by muslim people if the case would have turned out different.......
And I wonder why you wonder that....well I have my suspicions, but I'm still perplexed as to what the connection is
Well it won't be racism
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
How can it be racist ?? unless the only people you believe to be british are white .....british people come from all races and religions....see the clue is in the word RACISM this is pertinent to race not nationality.
An idiot short sighted policy it may be but racist?? clearly not
Blue you should read the question before giving an answer.....and I do I admit have some preconceptions as to what some peoples view of a muslim would be,but I am only human after all.
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I wonder if it had been a hotel owned by muslim people if the case would have turned out different.......
And I wonder why you wonder that....well I have my suspicions, but I'm still perplexed as to what the connection is
Well it won't be racism
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
How can it be racist ?? unless the only people you believe to be british are white .....british people come from all races and religions....see the clue is in the word RACISM this is pertinent to race not nationality.
An idiot short sighted policy it may be but racist?? clearly not
Blue you should read the question before giving an answer.....and I do I admit have some preconceptions as to what some peoples view of a muslim would be,but I am only human after all.
Can I ask,what makes your preconceptions of people any better than some one elses preconceptions of a muslim? Both are prejudging some one we dont know!
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
I wonder if it had been a hotel owned by muslim people if the case would have turned out different.......
And I wonder why you wonder that....well I have my suspicions, but I'm still perplexed as to what the connection is
Well it won't be racism
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
How can it be racist ?? unless the only people you believe to be british are white .....british people come from all races and religions....see the clue is in the word RACISM this is pertinent to race not nationality.
An idiot short sighted policy it may be but racist?? clearly not
Blue you should read the question before giving an answer.....and I do I admit have some preconceptions as to what some peoples view of a muslim would be,but I am only human after all.
Can I ask,what makes your preconceptions of people any better than some one elses preconceptions of a muslim? Both are prejudging some one we dont know!
Nothing Blue, and that is why I pointed it out ( I have nothing to hide) ....but we both know that really that isn't the point....have fun with your smokescreen...problem is it hides everything not just that, that you wish to conceal
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Nothing Blue, and that is why I pointed it out ( I have nothing to hide) ....but we both know that really that isn't the point....have fun with your smokescreen...problem is it hides everything not just that, that you wish to conceal
Another preconception? perhaps you would care to enlighten me?
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
Nothing Blue, and that is why I pointed it out ( I have nothing to hide) ....but we both know that really that isn't the point....have fun with your smokescreen...problem is it hides everything not just that, that you wish to conceal
Another preconception? perhaps you would care to enlighten me?
You know what Blue at the moment I don't think I would .....I'll leave it open to interpretation...obsfuscation is,or so it would seem the order of the day
Sex God
Quote by john469
Nothing Blue, and that is why I pointed it out ( I have nothing to hide) ....but we both know that really that isn't the point....have fun with your smokescreen...problem is it hides everything not just that, that you wish to conceal
Another preconception? perhaps you would care to enlighten me?
You know what Blue at the moment I don't think I would .....I'll leave it open to interpretation...obsfuscation is,or so it would seem the order of the day
Lee, you do 'bollockless jibes' better than most. Might I suggest, if you have something to say, say it, or risk being seen as quite the dainty, agitating dweeb.
Now, as far as the main issue goes, it's their business, they can serve who they want.
Perhaps if more folks took the direct approach with piss taking, agenda peddling, shit stirrers, the world might be a better place?
"If you don't like it, fuck off somewhere else, pal. Are you going to buy that magazine or just read it whilst stood there... oh really pal? fuck off out of my bread shop!"
The same goes for the morons banning smoking in pubs.
I couldn't give a tuppeny toss what anyone does in their own gaff, just don't moan when I do whatever, and whomever, in mine, ok?
Now, if the hoteliers have a problem with the gays in question getting balls deep in each others what nots whilst playing on home turf, that really wouldn't be cricket.
nice to meet you too john
Sex God
Given that many of our larger hotels are already owned by arabs (and I assure you they are muslim) it seems this wouldn't happen in a muslim owned hotel anyway......but why do you think it wouldn't have got to court? the law is the law and applies to everyone (with a few notable exceptions) equally...what makes you think muslims are so special?
Quote by deancannock
If you are a hotel or B&B.....you sell rooms for hire in reality. You should not be able to discrimiate on grounds of colour, religion, age, or sexual preferance. Simple.
I don't actually believe it is anything to do with religion, in this case but pure discrimination . However if you really do have strong religious views, then don't run a business that allows you to come into contact with people that may offend you.
It has everything to do with religion... or rather the religious beliefs of the people running the B&B/hotel. They believe that homosexuality is wrong and didn't want a gay couple staying in their establishment.
I agree with duncanlondon... why didn't the gay couple accept this and find another place to stay?
Quote by duncanlondon
the gay couple should have booked a hotel where they would not have encountered this problem.
oh right so you think the people who own the B&B should be allowed to break the law, and discriminate. The law abiding couple, that just happen to be Gay, who are not breaking any law, should be made to move on and find alternative accommadation !!
I think when things get like this between people, mixed thoughts and feelings escalate and aggravate. Then it becomes a battle. And that takes some motivation and determination to carry out. Why were the gay guys so committed to this course of action?
I mean did they want a nice quiet night in the country or did they want all this? It seems that is what they got. Why didn't they just walk away and get on with having some fun?
And how can you reason with or try to persuade people who have strongly held opinions and are so ignorant that they can't change? In most case its just not worth fighting for.
So I think the gay guys could see this and pushed for what they got. They made it happen as much as the hoteliers.
You are quite wrong. I have seen no evidence of christian hoteliers being targeted by gay rights groups or moslem taoist jewish or buddhist ones come to that. Where does this belief that the traditional british way of life is being eroded by minorities come from?
Imagine the next social we attend and the premier inn has suddenly decided that gay or unmarried couples are unwelcome. I think the vast majority of our of our community would be angry. I dont understand why the size of the business concerned has such a massive impact on opinions.
The hoteliers concerned were acting illegally and have been told so. I for one am glad that this has happened.
Next I would like to see environments that charge more for single men than single women brought to book. Cos thats illegal too and in my view wrong.
Imagine the next social we attend and the premier inn has suddenly decided that gay or unmarried couples are unwelcome. I think the vast majority of our of our community would be angry. I dont understand why the size of the business concerned has such a massive impact on opinions.
The hoteliers concerned were acting illegally and have been told so. I for one am glad that this has happened.
Next I would like to see environments that charge more for single men than single women brought to book. Cos thats illegal too and in my view wrong.
Sex God
Quote by Mr-Powers
Why the Gay couple couldn't have just found another hotel, could be the same reason this muslim woman sued a hairdresser for not employing her.
just another easy target for minorities to abuse the discrimination laws for, perhaps?
I am sure there are those who do this kind of thing, there are bound to be some who feel this could be good fun or a way to fame and some easy money
