I saw this earlier....
after reading the full article I was impressed by the mans convictions and feel others should be encouraged to follow this example.
But I do feel that had it been myself or any other white person doing this it would have been reported alot diffrently and probably resulted in the police being called to investigate a charge of racism.
I agree with bbw. I've not read the link but read it on msn's homepage. I agreed with the postmaster saying that anyone who comes into this country have to respect the law and our flag but I do think he's taking a bit far not serving ppl who don't speak English, although I do think they should make the effort to learn our language.
Miss Cream xxx
for someone who was 28 when he moved to the uk, he's taking it a bit far.
also, he's a councilmember, which makes the whole thing smell of political stunt. methinks he was after his 15 minutes in the spotlights.
what would happen if a tourist came in and asked for something? I'm a bit particular when it comes to speaking languages (I guess it's in the family) but I also know that some people simply don't have the talent for it., my father speaks several and has lived for 13 years in the netherlands...even so, his dutch has always been crap.
in any country in europe, you'll find that most offices also carry instruction leaflets and similar "informative aids" in english, to help the foreigners that live there, maybe only for a couple of months.. why should england be different and consider it their right to pretend everybody else to learn english when more often than not anglophones (ok, americans mostly, but britons too) are upset when they're abroad and facing someone who doesn't speak english?
(of course I agree that whoever moves into a new country should try and adapt to this new country, and the language is the first thing to learn...but still..on this occasion the guy is taking it a bit far.
besides the sillyness of it all, I wonder if it was his legal right to apply such a ban at all. the postal service does not require the customer to speak english in order to be served, and I doubt this particular postmaster has the right to disregard this policy. methinks his publicity stunt might backfire, unless the royal mail decide not to pursue the matter, for fear of sparking a political debate.
and yes, had it been a white man pulling the same stunt, the postmaster himself declared during his interview on the bbc news, he would have faced severe criticism...since he speaks and feels he's talking as a true englishman, he should face the same sort of criticism..
I think he's spot on about the language thing. If I were served by someone who couldn't speak enough English to actually carry out the transaction I would walk out. If they can't speak and understand how can he serve them properly?
I have always been in favour of immigration (reasonable levels) as it adds a great extra spice to our way of life here - BUT I would set some basic rules for entry. Enough money (proven) to support themselves indefinitely or a pre-arranged (genuine) job. And sufficient grasp and use of English to function. It isn't too much to ask. If they come from a country where English is unknown - they can go to a country whose language they can learn - like France or Spain.
Got him a lot of publicity.
I hope his shop is nice and busy for him, it may have reverse effect and people stop using his shop!
Only time will tell.
I now put the phone down on the people who ring me, saying there are Angela (??) from what ever company, I try to understand them, but when I cant, I now say why, and go with a goodbye and thanks for calling!
I used to work in a school with a large percentage of recently arrived asylum seekers.
Some of them spoke English - particularly if the aid workers in their refugee camps had been from English speaking countries. Many of them spoke several languages. But living in a refugee camp for years under canvas and surviving on aid handouts for subsistence isn't perhaps the most conducive atmosphere for language learning. Neither is being separated from family and sent thousands of miles away for safety; or watching your parents being bludgeoned to death by 'soldiers' as you pretended to play dead to save yourself.
Not all people who arrive in this country choose to come here and not all have the time or luxury to learn the language prior to their arrival.
I'm not saying every case is like this and I am fully aware of the difference between an economic migrant and an asylum seeker. I suppose the point I am trying to make is how can that shopkeeper judge people like that?
Oh, and the young lady who watched her parents being killed and later saw their heads on sticks outside her village in Rwanda, she did learn English after arriving here as an unaccompanied minor. She is an amazing young woman and if she had been the kind of customer initially turned away from that guy's shop, then what an indignity to add to her suffering.
It is not quite that easy to migrate here. It may seem like it is to people who have never had to try and gain entry to this country, and it is certainly easier to move here than it is to places like America, but migrants (not asylum seekers - that's a seperate issue) generally have no recourse to public funds, they have to pay tax, and have to meet criteria in order to get a visa. I know that some papers would have you believe that people flood in here from all over the world and get given free houses and dole money, but it isn't actually quite that simple - many migrants are forced to go to Liverpool to get thier visa's - surely that's a barrier in itself ;)
"back" in italy, during high school, I spent a year doing voluntary "afterschool class" with children with learning difficulties (younger than me of course)
since I spoke a couple of languages, I always ended up saddled with the "recent arrivals"..children that came from all over the world and had been in Italy for maybe a year or two (trust me, speaking any number of european languages doesn't help when the kid is chinese..I suspect the supervisor was taking the piss). most of them hardly spoke any italian.
most of the migrant from deprived areas of the world don't come here as a family... they will send the "man of the house" or the eldest son ahead..and once he's established himself and made enough money for tickets, he'll send for them, whether they like moving or not.
in some cases the family will have prepared and tried to learn the new language before moving... but mostly the family that was left behind has a hard enough time putting 2 meals a day on the table, let alone learning a foreign language..if tuition is at all available. these people may then come over to start anew, but be completely umprepaired..except for that one member of the family who's been "here" for a while.
consider also that there are languages that have a complete set of different sounds, and the native users of these languages might find it very difficult to adapt to new, alien sounds to pronounce which they need to bend their mouth in ways that are totaly alien to them... in some cases it's like learning to walk on your hands, when you've walked on your feet your entire life and are mightily tempted to do so whenever you get the chance.
short of asking for their papers, which would be illegal, or knowing the clients individually (which would then have made it personal and wrong) the postmaster had no way of knowing why his customers didn't speak the language or for how long they had been around, if they had had a chance for tuition or not. and if he indeed had had the chance of knowing all of the above, it still wasn't his right to judge them for it. it's not for him to decide the policies that regulate the customer service of the royal mail.
as I said, a publicity stunt for a political activist with a personal agenda.
I cant help but think its just some publicity stunt with unsavoury undertones.
If you cant understand someone your not going to help them........
What a shitty attitude IMO!!!
I used to be of the opinion that everyone that comes to this country should learn English, and I always make the effort when I go abroad to at least know the basics like please/thank you/how much/ where is etc etc, and think that everyone should, and not just rely on their 'spanglais'- "voulez vous telephone taxi pleasey-o?"...
Has anyone read the book brick lane? Or seen the film?
That totally changed my opinion on this topic. The main character in the story line was a young girl who had to move to Britain following her arranged marriage to a much older man. She didn't want to move and hated it here. Her husband was the soul breadwinner, he went out to work and could speak english, but didnt want her to. For the first few years, she pretty much stayed indoors, too scared to go out (she tried once and got lost and couldn't cope) It wasn't really until she had children and they went to school that she started learning english, but her husband didnt like it to be spoken in the house.
There must be so many families that do come here, where some family members never even get the chance to learn, not through any lack of desire in themselves to learn.
Nola, thanks for your insight into this too!
m xx
Seems the powers that be were none too impressed with him either. He's now lost his position as a Liberal Democrat councillor and his job in the Post Office in question (although I think he's been transferred to another office rather than sacked all together)
I agree - this guy is rising to the bait - and proving himself holier than thou. Being the son of immigrants makes me very sensitive to slights. If my mother went into that shop and was turned away because her english wasnt good enough - i would hit the roof.
his point may be valid - people who come here have to learn english - but refusing to serve people is not what our country is about.
I am not surprised he got booted from his party. it was a bad stunt if ever I saw one. in the realm of political awareness these thins don't get overlooked.
I'm also happy he didn't lose his job altogether..no man should get fired for his opinions, however ill advised they might be.
I guess relegating him to a desk away from contact with the public serves him right for abusing his position as postmaster and turning it into a personal spotlight.
I immagine it's the sensible thing to do.
(can't help but feel that had he been an umphteenth generation white englishman he might have ended up going rounds with a bag full of mail attached to his bike...glad he didn't get that either, or he might have ended up playing the martyr tune)
Well done that man!
It should work both ways though, the amounts of times I go into shops in london and the person serving does'nt speak english is a disgrace!
Been on the radio this morning that he has been sacked. That is one twit that won't be serving the public again.
Dave_Notts
interesting that someone is complaining that they walk into shop and the shop assistant cant speak english. perhaps they ought to think, that unless why its is that native brits arent doing that job - presumably because a native brit wouldnt take the low pay - there is a sound economic reason why these jobs are taken by immigrants - if it wasnt for the immigrant - there would be no one to serve you
